|
|
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Could I just download and install KB 4015438, skipping 4013429? Their 64-bit download are of file sizes over 1 GBytes!!! -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most.
for me maybe 5 at most -- AL'S COMPUTERS "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote in message ... Could I just download and install KB 4015438, skipping 4013429? Their 64-bit download are of file sizes over 1 GBytes!!! -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ????? (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Andy wrote:
With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most And therein lies the rub. Not everybody as access to a "good modern internet connection". Here in Third-World-USA that download would take me almost an hour and I am lucky, I have access to SLOW DSL. The majority in my county are limited to dial-up or poor 3G or flaky 4G( very pricey METERED connections). -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:30:28 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote: Andy wrote: With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most And therein lies the rub. Not everybody as access to a "good modern internet connection". Here in Third-World-USA that download would take me almost an hour and I am lucky, I have access to SLOW DSL. The majority in my county are limited to dial-up or poor 3G or flaky 4G( very pricey METERED connections). Or if you are rural and have to use a satellite link, you can not download it at all.... -dan z- -- Protect your civil rights! Let the politicians know how you feel. Join or donate to the NRA today! http://membership.nrahq.org/default....ignid=XR014887 Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars. |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
slate_leeper wrote:
Or if you are rural and have to use a satellite link, you can not download it at all.... Oh, yeah I fell for the HughesNet scam. I even eat the penalty to dump it when this meager DSL arrived. Hey TelCOs, where is my Fiber-Information-Superhighway promised in the 90s in exchanged for deregulation? We all know... -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
On 23/03/2017 2:04 PM, Andy wrote:
With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most There are still poor people and backward countries... :) -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:30:28 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote: Andy wrote: With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most And therein lies the rub. Not everybody as access to a "good modern internet connection". Here in Third-World-USA that download would take me almost an hour and I am lucky, I have access to SLOW DSL. The majority in my county are limited to dial-up or poor 3G or flaky 4G( very pricey METERED connections). I'm not sure I agree that it's a majority who only have slow DSL or dial-up available to them. It's probably a majority of the country, but a majority of the people? That doesn't sound right, BICBW. Personally, we have 300/50 Mbps service where I live, and Google was talking about bringing symmetrical 1Gbps service here, which prompted at&t to start saying they would do the same. I haven't seen any digging yet, though. |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438 vs 4016635
On 22/03/2017 10:28 PM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
Could I just download and install KB 4015438, skipping 4013429? Their 64-bit download are of file sizes over 1 GBytes!!! OH well, here comes KB4016635!!! -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
"Andy" wrote in message
... With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most It took me almost an hour to dl the last update and I have a fast connection, over 200mbs. Why? Because it wouldn't dl all at once. It would stick at different percentages for a long time. Is their a link that you an dl from without using the MS Update site built-into Win10? -- Buffalo |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
On 23/03/2017 11:46 PM, Buffalo wrote:
Why? Because it wouldn't dl all at once. It would stick at different percentages for a long time. Is their a link that you an dl from without using the MS Update site built-into Win10? I needed to manually download the XXX.MSU package for my slower PCs. -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:30:28 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little" wrote: Andy wrote: With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most And therein lies the rub. Not everybody as access to a "good modern internet connection". Here in Third-World-USA that download would take me almost an hour and I am lucky, I have access to SLOW DSL. The majority in my county are limited to dial-up or poor 3G or flaky 4G( very pricey METERED connections). I'm not sure I agree that it's a majority who only have slow DSL or dial-up available to them. It's probably a majority of the country, but a majority of the people? That doesn't sound right, BICBW. I said *county*. I'm only a little over an hour from Richmond VA and 3Mbps is the *best* I can get. And I am lucky! Personally, we have 300/50 Mbps service where I live, and Google was talking about bringing symmetrical 1Gbps service here, which prompted at&t to start saying they would do the same. I haven't seen any digging yet, though. Consider yourself lucky, we have no other option and Verizon is not in a very accommodating mood. -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438 vs 4016635
Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
On 22/03/2017 10:28 PM, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: Could I just download and install KB 4015438, skipping 4013429? Their 64-bit download are of file sizes over 1 GBytes!!! OH well, here comes KB4016635!!! You should be relying on Windows to do these, not fooling around with catalog.update.microsoft.com . Using direct downloads is only to cover failure cases. The "Delta Updater" is a technology that only downloads the difference between the existing file set, and the new file set. The end result should be, the three updates should not need a total of 3GB of downloads. Maybe 1-1.5GB or so. Use the byte counter in your router to keep track. Part of the reason for doing some of this work now, is so that when the Delta Updater brings in the Creator OS version, the delta will be smaller, and the CDN will not be overloaded. The Delta Update does not appear to be particularly granular. The chunk size it uses still seems to be pretty large. But the new scheme was invented to save bytes on the Microsoft end, at the expense of increasing the overall time to complete the updates. I could download an entire DVD-sized OS image, in about half the time to do a Delta Update. It's slow. Paul |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Buffalo wrote:
"Andy" wrote in message ... With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most It took me almost an hour to dl the last update and I have a fast connection, over 200mbs. Why? Because it wouldn't dl all at once. It would stick at different percentages for a long time. Is their a link that you an dl from without using the MS Update site built-into Win10? You can adjust the process priority to break deadlocks, but I'm not at the point of delivering "recipes" on this. I'm still trying to figure out why it is broken. Several Insider editions ago, the Settings control panel stopped updating. So you'd see "20%" and the thing was still doing downloads, but the number would not change. That seems to be fixed now. But some other stuff behaves in a weird fashion. I tried bumping TiWorker (or equivalent), I tried changing the priority of the SVCHOST with wuauserv in it. What I noticed, is the Delta downloader "productivity" drops with time. Initially, it might be using 40% of a core, then gradually the CPU load drops to almost nothing. I don't really think process priority ("Above Normal") is all that good of an answer. What I was looking for at the time, was something to "bump" the process and get it going again. I've had weird behaviors on Windows before, where merely opening Task Manager dialog on the screen, bumped things enough to get them running again. But so far, with the Delta downloader, I haven't figured out why it slows down (or stalls). Rebooting when this happens is convenient, but the Delta Downloader does not "checkpoint" its progress in Win10. So the percentage done will drop back to 7%. It seemed to "recompute" the download, and resolve the downloads using the files it already has. So it won't toss all the downloads it did away. But it will annoy the hell out of you with its slow slow behavior (in all cases). You'd swear Microsoft had investments in power generation companies, for all the electricity this is wasting. I've never seen so many CPU cycles just... wasted. Paul |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:59:59 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little"
wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:30:28 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little" wrote: Andy wrote: With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most And therein lies the rub. Not everybody as access to a "good modern internet connection". Here in Third-World-USA that download would take me almost an hour and I am lucky, I have access to SLOW DSL. The majority in my county are limited to dial-up or poor 3G or flaky 4G( very pricey METERED connections). I'm not sure I agree that it's a majority who only have slow DSL or dial-up available to them. It's probably a majority of the country, but a majority of the people? That doesn't sound right, BICBW. I said *county*. I'm only a little over an hour from Richmond VA and 3Mbps is the *best* I can get. And I am lucky! Thanks for the correction. I guess I saw what I expected to see, unfortunately. |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
On 03/23/2017 10:29 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
[snip] Personally, we have 300/50 Mbps service where I live, and Google was talking about bringing symmetrical 1Gbps service here, which prompted at&t to start saying they would do the same. I haven't seen any digging yet, though. Currently, the cable here (Suddenlink) has a maximum of 150Mb/7.5Mb internet. They say they're planning 1Gb service, but it's not here yet (and it's going to require a new modem). -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "WARNING: Giving up religion now greatly increases humanity's chances for survival." |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:30:28 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little" wrote: Andy wrote: With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most And therein lies the rub. Not everybody as access to a "good modern internet connection". Here in Third-World-USA that download would take me almost an hour and I am lucky, I have access to SLOW DSL. The majority in my county are limited to dial-up or poor 3G or flaky 4G( very pricey METERED connections). I'm not sure I agree that it's a majority who only have slow DSL or dial-up available to them. It's probably a majority of the country, but a majority of the people? That doesn't sound right, BICBW. Personally, we have 300/50 Mbps service where I live, and Google was talking about bringing symmetrical 1Gbps service here, which prompted at&t to start saying they would do the same. I haven't seen any digging yet, though. The Google thing will remain "talk", as Google has shut down its ambitious plan for "world GbE domination". From Wikipedia: "In October 2016, all expansion plans were put on hold and some jobs were cut.[9] Google Fiber will continue to provide service in the cities where it is already installed." And other competitors, for some reason, are not interested in wireline any more. They love the "gold" and "small monthly caps" of 3G/4G wireless instead. I don't think the situation is the same everywhere in the world. So if you got a good connection today, enjoy the hell out of it. Paul |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Yes those kinda connections and metered data stinks:)
-- AL'S COMPUTERS "Jonathan N. Little" wrote in message ... Andy wrote: With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most And therein lies the rub. Not everybody as access to a "good modern internet connection". Here in Third-World-USA that download would take me almost an hour and I am lucky, I have access to SLOW DSL. The majority in my county are limited to dial-up or poor 3G or flaky 4G( very pricey METERED connections). -- Take care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
So what does a gig download take you time wise char:)
-- AL'S COMPUTERS "Char Jackson" wrote in message ... On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:30:28 -0400, "Jonathan N. Little" wrote: Andy wrote: With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most And therein lies the rub. Not everybody as access to a "good modern internet connection". Here in Third-World-USA that download would take me almost an hour and I am lucky, I have access to SLOW DSL. The majority in my county are limited to dial-up or poor 3G or flaky 4G( very pricey METERED connections). I'm not sure I agree that it's a majority who only have slow DSL or dial-up available to them. It's probably a majority of the country, but a majority of the people? That doesn't sound right, BICBW. Personally, we have 300/50 Mbps service where I live, and Google was talking about bringing symmetrical 1Gbps service here, which prompted at&t to start saying they would do the same. I haven't seen any digging yet, though. |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Sadly you are correct to bad mr make America grate again could not spend
some of his billions on building our ISP Networks up to do days standards for all. -- AL'S COMPUTERS "Mr. Man-wai Chang" wrote in message ... On 23/03/2017 2:04 PM, Andy wrote: With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most There are still poor people and backward countries... :) -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ???! ????? (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
That happens with Microsoft especially when patches or downloads are
released:) -- AL'S COMPUTERS "Buffalo" wrote in message ... "Andy" wrote in message ... With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most It took me almost an hour to dl the last update and I have a fast connection, over 200mbs. Why? Because it wouldn't dl all at once. It would stick at different percentages for a long time. Is their a link that you an dl from without using the MS Update site built-into Win10? -- Buffalo |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Buffalo wrote:
It took me almost an hour to dl the last update and I have a fast connection, over 200mbs. Why? Because it wouldn't dl all at once. It would stick at different percentages for a long time. Same here, I have ~80Mbps, two attempts stuck at various percentages and eventually failed, another one failed because I got impatient and rebooted, for the fourth attempt I left the machine alone for an hour with nothing running and it managed to install. |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 02:58:45 -0400, "Andy" wrote:
So what does a gig download take you time wise char:) That's a straightforward math question, Andy. You can calculate the best possible scenario, but in reality many sites are unwilling to serve up a file for download at 300Mbps, so to get there you have to open multiple concurrent connections. So best case, how long should a gig take at 300 Megs a second? Show your work, and watch for bits versus bytes. |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Buffalo wrote:
"Andy" wrote in message ... With a good modern internet connection that should take a few mins at most. for me maybe 5 at most It took me almost an hour to dl the last update and I have a fast connection, over 200mbs. Why? Because it wouldn't dl all at once. It would stick at different percentages for a long time. Is their a link that you an dl from without using the MS Update site built-into Win10? The catalog server allows individual KB downloads. You put the KB number on the end of the query. http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/...aspx?q=4015438 But somehow, you have to figure out that KB is needed, before you can jam it in. You can "race" with Windows Update, and download from the Catalog server, then double-click the .MSU you received, and beat Windows Update to the punch. I haven't run into an issue yet, by doing stuff like that. ******* To change from the Anniversary Edition (14393) to the Creator Edition (coming soon), you can download a DVD to do that if you want. You would execute setup.exe on the downloaded ISO, while the OS is running, to do a "Repair Install" to the new OS version (15xxx or so). Since Win10 supports the mounting of ISO files as a virtual CD, there is no need to burn a DVD to do it. The OS installer will copy the files from the ISO during the first step, and then subsequent reboots will use the files now on C: to finish the job. The ISO does not need to be mounted all during the install. The installer copies the files off, during the first phase. ******* If you have multiple PCs running Windows 10, you can enable a Peer to Peer networking feature, such that one PC on your LAN, can share updates with the other PCs. The same Delta Updates are likely to be done, but the component parts can be fetched from a PC that already downloaded them. I haven't experimented with this feature, because I don't have enough PCs running the same version. Paul |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
I asked what you got for speed as a question char not what i get :)
-- AL'S COMPUTERS "Char Jackson" wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 02:58:45 -0400, "Andy" wrote: So what does a gig download take you time wise char:) That's a straightforward math question, Andy. You can calculate the best possible scenario, but in reality many sites are unwilling to serve up a file for download at 300Mbps, so to get there you have to open multiple concurrent connections. So best case, how long should a gig take at 300 Megs a second? Show your work, and watch for bits versus bytes. |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Andy wrote:
I asked what you got for speed as a question char not what i get :) A metric that is easy to understand, is to post a Speedtest.net result. For example, mine is 15/1, and that's exactly what I pay for. It wasn't always like that. My first ISP sold 5mbit ADSL, and delivered 3mbit, mumbling excuses about SNR (which weren't actually true) as the reason for their clumsy "traffic shaping". ******* When you download from a server, the server may not max the link with a single connection. If I download a Linux LiveCD from uWaterloo, it might only use 1/3rd of my link. If I were to quote that number, it would be embarrassing. If you select your server well (use a Microsoft server, use a download client opening 20 connections), you can get tremendous source bandwidth. But, the result isn't going to go faster than Speedtest.net results. So just running Speedtest.net for 30 seconds or whatever, is sufficient for "boasting purposes". Servers vary, in terms of individual connection caps, and the number of simultaneous connections they will allow. For example, I was downloading some SDK from Microsoft, maybe 8GB in size, and Firefox said "24 hours remaining". That's probably the slowest download I've ever been offered from Microsoft. I attempted multiple times, to break and make the connection again, and could not improve the rate. However, after I acquired a download client that could open multiple connections, I did the math, figured out I needed 8 connections, and then the (double-sided) DVD downloaded in three hours, instead of twenty four hours. To make "rate-boasting" fair, it should be done with a reproducible test case. And Speedtest.net is good enough, considering the amount of time/effort these boasts are worth. Paul |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438 vs 4016635
On 24/03/2017 12:09 AM, Paul wrote:
You should be relying on Windows to do these, not fooling around with catalog.update.microsoft.com . Micro$oft called it "Update Rollup". Manual installation of patches and updates is still useful when you need to reinstall your Win 10 in order to flush the system of junk. -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 05:48:55 -0400, "Andy" wrote:
I asked what you got for speed as a question char not what i get :) And I suggested that you can work it out mathematically. |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438 vs 4016635
Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
On 24/03/2017 12:09 AM, Paul wrote: You should be relying on Windows to do these, not fooling around with catalog.update.microsoft.com . Micro$oft called it "Update Rollup". Manual installation of patches and updates is still useful when you need to reinstall your Win 10 in order to flush the system of junk. I used WSUSOffline, to check out the offerings for Windows 10. There is one big file per OS version, in the catalog. In this example, as you noted in your subject line, the 1GB update keeps being superseded by a later 1GB update. It appears the wsusscn2.cab file is not updated with the last two supersedes. https://s12.postimg.org/5dj5xqih9/win10_keepers.gif You really only need to download a single 1GB file today, to use for patching the OS. But be aware, that to attain later updates, there will be an incremental download for the purpose (as determined by the Delta Updater). So yes, you can download a single 1GB file, but knowing that it is never "the end of the update story". Paul |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438 vs 4016635
On 25/03/2017 2:21 AM, Paul wrote:
I used WSUSOffline, to check out the offerings for Windows 10. ... So yes, you can download a single 1GB file, but knowing that it is never "the end of the update story". Thanks! -- @~@ Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch! Live long and prosper!! / v \ Simplicity is Beauty! /( _ )\ May the Force and farces be with you! ^ ^ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.39.3 不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA): http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_...sub_addressesa |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
Why is to hard to just give me youre answer youre self:)
-- AL'S COMPUTERS "Char Jackson" wrote in message ... On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 05:48:55 -0400, "Andy" wrote: I asked what you got for speed as a question char not what i get :) And I suggested that you can work it out mathematically. |
Win 10 giga-update: KB 4013429 vs KB 4015438
On 3/23/2017 10:01 AM, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
slate_leeper wrote: Or if you are rural and have to use a satellite link, you can not download it at all.... Oh, yeah I fell for the HughesNet scam. I even eat the penalty to dump it when this meager DSL arrived. Hey TelCOs, where is my Fiber-Information-Superhighway promised in the 90s in exchanged for deregulation? We all know... I live outside of Oklahoma City and the best that's available where I live is a WISP called Aerosurf (Wireless Internet Service Provider). It's not the fastest ISP I've been with, but its better than nothing for the price you pay. It's fast enough to allow 1 HD video stream from Vudu or Netflix, but that's about it, and for $50 a month for unlimited access, it's a bargain compared to other services around here. -- Roy Smith Windows 10 64 bit Wednesday, April 5, 2017, 12:04 AM Thunderbird 45.8.0 |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:53 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2004 - 2006 PCbanter
Comments are property of their posters