|
USB3 indicator
Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to
a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. |
USB3 indicator
On 29/05/2014 22:43, AlDrake wrote:
Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. Are you connecting your device with the USB3 port? Having a USB3 compatible device is one thing but you also need a USB3 port and this is normally distinguished by looking at the pins on the port. There are normally 4 pins on a USB3 port. check it out and post back. Also note that Most new machines have some USB3 ports and some are still USB2 ports and one port USB2 is for debugging something. Now I can't tell you what it is for because I haven't used it for anything else except to hook my mouse. -- *_Good Guy_* Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk Website: http://html-css.co.uk Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us |
USB3 indicator
On 5/29/2014 5:56 PM, Good Guy wrote:
On 29/05/2014 22:43, AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. Are you connecting your device with the USB3 port? Having a USB3 compatible device is one thing but you also need a USB3 port and this is normally distinguished by looking at the pins on the port. There are normally 4 pins on a USB3 port. check it out and post back. Also note that Most new machines have some USB3 ports and some are still USB2 ports and one port USB2 is for debugging something. Now I can't tell you what it is for because I haven't used it for anything else except to hook my mouse. -- *_Good Guy_* Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk Website: http://html-css.co.uk Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us I think I posted what I am doing in another thread but I installed a USB3 PCIe card and connected a USB3 drive but I still get that nag. It disappears shortly after complaining that something is wrong but I don't know what. I thought if I could recall that tool at will it might help. I might need to address my BIOS but I don't know what to look for exactly. Maybe I simply can't get there from here if I'm restricted by either MoBo or BIOS. I know the plug is firmly seated as I've had it in place and I got better results from an internal SSD to USB3 enclosure. I know there must be a speed differential from an external hdd and an external enclosure with an SSD inside but it's unclear what to expect. |
USB3 indicator
AlDrake wrote:
Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul |
USB3 indicator
On Thu, 29 May 2014 17:43:17 -0400, AlDrake wrote:
Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. It's apparently installed by the driver installation for your PCIe card. At least that's how I got it. I have a directory C:\VIA_XHCI with usb3Monitor.exe in it. It's started at boot time. OK, that's out of date. My newer card has installed that program in C:\Program Files\via xhci uasp utility\usb3monitor.exe It's initiated in HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run I guess I'll remove the first folder from the root since it's not called any more. My guess is that if you disable the above startup command, you won't do any damage. Use Autoruns to do it safely; you can reinstate it easily from there if it creates a problem. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
USB3 indicator
On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote:
AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? |
USB3 indicator
On 5/29/2014 8:40 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2014 17:43:17 -0400, AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. It's apparently installed by the driver installation for your PCIe card. At least that's how I got it. I have a directory C:\VIA_XHCI with usb3Monitor.exe in it. It's started at boot time. OK, that's out of date. My newer card has installed that program in C:\Program Files\via xhci uasp utility\usb3monitor.exe It's initiated in HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run I guess I'll remove the first folder from the root since it's not called any more. My guess is that if you disable the above startup command, you won't do any damage. Use Autoruns to do it safely; you can reinstate it easily from there if it creates a problem. I guess I'll need to read the help files for Autorun. In the registry location you refer to I only see 6 entries and none seem like USB3 related. Acronis Scheduler2 Service CmPCIaudio NvBackend Nvtmru ShadowPlay Windows Mobile Device Center I have in my program folder Western Digital USB3 Host controller Utility that when I open it displays NEC Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller Everything seems set up right AFAICS. |
USB3 indicator
On Thu, 29 May 2014 22:31:21 -0400, AlDrake wrote:
On 5/29/2014 8:40 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2014 17:43:17 -0400, AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. It's apparently installed by the driver installation for your PCIe card. At least that's how I got it. I have a directory C:\VIA_XHCI with usb3Monitor.exe in it. It's started at boot time. OK, that's out of date. My newer card has installed that program in C:\Program Files\via xhci uasp utility\usb3monitor.exe It's initiated in HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run I guess I'll remove the first folder from the root since it's not called any more. My guess is that if you disable the above startup command, you won't do any damage. Use Autoruns to do it safely; you can reinstate it easily from there if it creates a problem. I guess I'll need to read the help files for Autorun. In the registry location you refer to I only see 6 entries and none seem like USB3 related. Acronis Scheduler2 Service CmPCIaudio NvBackend Nvtmru ShadowPlay Windows Mobile Device Center I have in my program folder Western Digital USB3 Host controller Utility that when I open it displays NEC Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller Everything seems set up right AFAICS. Start Autoruns and wait for it to finish loading (it will say "Ready" at the bottom of its screen). In Autoruns, Search (Ctrl-f works) for usb3monitor. If you have it, that will locate it for you. If you don't have it, then your message comes from somewhere other than where mine comes from. You could also look in the Task Manager to see whether it's running. Since my first post, I disabled my USB3Monitor to no apparent ill effect. -- Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch) |
USB3 indicator
AlDrake wrote:
On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? Lexar S23 has no chrome metal part on the connector. It has plastic to take its place. There are nine pins inside the purple plastic. The plastic deforms if the key is inserted on an angle, breaking the pins inside. http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...5526881595.jpg This is the previous Lexar S73 with metal (chrome plated) connector body. This inserts fine, and no broken pins. http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...191-433-04.jpg Can't find a clear answer as to what I'm seeing with my USB3 stuff here. I don't know if my copy of UVCVIEW is up to this job or not. HDTune is the next best thing (bench it) for now. Paul |
USB3 indicator
AlDrake wrote:
On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? I found this page with info on USB3 detection. This is for Windows 8, so isn't likely to be exactly the same on Windows 7. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...uperspeed.aspx The interesting part is, there is a claim of an updated USBView application in the WDK (Windows Driver Kit). But it requires registration and downloading Visual Studio 2013 or something (which would also require registration). So it's some kind of strip tease for sure. I've had cases in the past, where a certain 25KB utility was promised in some 1GB ot 2GB DVD download, only to find in the release notes of the completely downloaded DVD, that the tool is not included. And the web page announcing it was full of ****. The developers at Microsoft, just *love* this game. Why can't the latest USBView or UVCView just be put on its own web page ? Linux did a pretty good job of displaying three test cases I set up for USB3, but I still don't believe the results. It seems to be telling me, the USB3 stick I believe is functioning properly, lacks proper USB3 identifiers inside. Like the config information isn't the right type for USB3. Linux has tools such as "hwinfo", as in "hwinfo --disk" as well as "lsusb -v" for verbose USB output. That's where I could see that my one good USB3 stick is missing a BOS structure, and I don't know why that is. Paul |
USB3 indicator
On 5/29/2014 11:07 PM, Paul wrote:
AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? Lexar S23 has no chrome metal part on the connector. It has plastic to take its place. There are nine pins inside the purple plastic. The plastic deforms if the key is inserted on an angle, breaking the pins inside. http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...5526881595.jpg This is the previous Lexar S73 with metal (chrome plated) connector body. This inserts fine, and no broken pins. http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggIma...191-433-04.jpg Can't find a clear answer as to what I'm seeing with my USB3 stuff here. I don't know if my copy of UVCVIEW is up to this job or not. HDTune is the next best thing (bench it) for now. Paul Thanks again Paul. I have bench mark utilities that show speed but they none seem to show anything for drives that are connected. I guess there is nothing more reliable than what Windows shows. I do notice that sometimes the transfer rate goes down from a high when it first starts. Sometime it's cut in half. Other times nothing changes. AS SSD works nicely. http://www.alex-is.de/PHP/fusion/news.php |
USB3 indicator
On 5/30/2014 3:07 AM, Paul wrote:
AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? I found this page with info on USB3 detection. This is for Windows 8, so isn't likely to be exactly the same on Windows 7. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...uperspeed.aspx The interesting part is, there is a claim of an updated USBView application in the WDK (Windows Driver Kit). But it requires registration and downloading Visual Studio 2013 or something (which would also require registration). So it's some kind of strip tease for sure. I've had cases in the past, where a certain 25KB utility was promised in some 1GB ot 2GB DVD download, only to find in the release notes of the completely downloaded DVD, that the tool is not included. And the web page announcing it was full of ****. The developers at Microsoft, just *love* this game. Why can't the latest USBView or UVCView just be put on its own web page ? Linux did a pretty good job of displaying three test cases I set up for USB3, but I still don't believe the results. It seems to be telling me, the USB3 stick I believe is functioning properly, lacks proper USB3 identifiers inside. Like the config information isn't the right type for USB3. Linux has tools such as "hwinfo", as in "hwinfo --disk" as well as "lsusb -v" for verbose USB output. That's where I could see that my one good USB3 stick is missing a BOS structure, and I don't know why that is. Paul I think first I need to find a hub that delivers that it's supposed to. Maybe I'll even try another PCIe card as well. |
USB3 indicator
On 5/29/2014 10:48 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Thu, 29 May 2014 22:31:21 -0400, AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:40 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote: On Thu, 29 May 2014 17:43:17 -0400, AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. It's apparently installed by the driver installation for your PCIe card. At least that's how I got it. I have a directory C:\VIA_XHCI with usb3Monitor.exe in it. It's started at boot time. OK, that's out of date. My newer card has installed that program in C:\Program Files\via xhci uasp utility\usb3monitor.exe It's initiated in HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run I guess I'll remove the first folder from the root since it's not called any more. My guess is that if you disable the above startup command, you won't do any damage. Use Autoruns to do it safely; you can reinstate it easily from there if it creates a problem. I guess I'll need to read the help files for Autorun. In the registry location you refer to I only see 6 entries and none seem like USB3 related. Acronis Scheduler2 Service CmPCIaudio NvBackend Nvtmru ShadowPlay Windows Mobile Device Center I have in my program folder Western Digital USB3 Host controller Utility that when I open it displays NEC Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller Everything seems set up right AFAICS. Start Autoruns and wait for it to finish loading (it will say "Ready" at the bottom of its screen). In Autoruns, Search (Ctrl-f works) for usb3monitor. If you have it, that will locate it for you. If you don't have it, then your message comes from somewhere other than where mine comes from. You could also look in the Task Manager to see whether it's running. Since my first post, I disabled my USB3Monitor to no apparent ill effect. Nothing comes up with that search. I'll try more later tonight after work. Thanks again Al |
USB3 indicator
AlDrake wrote:
On 5/30/2014 3:07 AM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: On 5/29/2014 8:10 PM, Paul wrote: AlDrake wrote: Can anyone shed some light on windows 7 tool that alerts connecting to a USB3 can achieve faster access. I get this sometimes even when I am connecting a USB3 device but win7 doesn't agree. Can this utility be accessed to check connections? So far the only way I can tell is viewing the speed of files being transferred. Al. A tool for displaying that info would be UVCView from Microsoft. The older version used to be relatively easy to get. The newer version required downloading some SDK DVD and picking it out of there. I doubt you would enjoy that utility, because the "output isn't in English". It's a developer tool. The scheme works something like this. 1) USB devices have a configuration space. Early in PNP, the config space is fetched. In the space is a field that says "my max speed is USB3" or "my max speed is USB2". 2) At the same time, the low level stuff starts negotiation. On the USB3 connector on the back of your computer, there are two sets of pins. If both sets of pins "touch", the negotiation procedure notes that the USB3 set are the fastest one. And the hardware plumbing uses those pins. So let's review how it can fail. 1) Plug a USB3 into a USB2 plug. Config says "I'm USB3". Negotiation leads to a USB2 connection (as only those pins are touching on a USB2 connector on the back of your computer). The USB2 connector only has the four pins, not all nine pins. The OS says "This device could go faster" if and only if at least one USB3 connector is available on the back of the computer, and the speed mismatch has been noted. If the computer had only USB2 ports, and you plug in a USB3 device, there is no complaint there, because there is no potential for improvement (by warning the user to move the device to another port). 2) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug. But, don't push it all the way in. The USB2 pins touch. The USB3 do not touch. We get the same result as (1), namely a claim that the device could go faster. But the problem in this case, is the electrical contacts. If this happens to you, don't over-react. Jamming the thing in hard (as I did) is a mistake. There's a reason this is happening... 3) Plug a USB3 device into a USB3 plug and seat it fully. Now everything works, USB3 rate is negotiated which matches the USB3 config space info. Everyone is happy, no dialog appears. I know all about this contact problem on USB3. 1) Paul stupidly buys a USB3 key with a *plastic* barrel on it. The USB3 port on the computer is *metal*. Paul should have known better. 2) The engineering of the plastic was not done right. There is improper connector capture during insertion, leading to one of the USB3 key pins snapping off! Now instead of 9 pins, my poor USB3 key has only 8 pins. 3) Now the device can never again run at USB3 speed. I am doomed to always see that dialog with that USB3 key. Moral of the story, is *buy only USB3 keys with metal barrels*. Do not buy the plastic ones. I have opened the device in question, and I can't even replace the connector with a proper metal one. Because the contact pattern used in the design, is so **** poor. I can't even remove the assembly, because it's SMT with totally shrouded solderable mechanical support points. Miserable *******s! I would need to grind the ******* off. And finding a replacement miniature contact assembly isn't going to happen - it's custom. I had to use my magnifying glass just to see this stuff. The operating system, by giving you that dialog, is giving you all the hints you need. UVCView would just confirm a few things. But if the pins aren't touching, the utility doesn't say anything specific about that. The low level driver does the negotiating, and I don't think there is any log of what happened there. The dialog box is all the proof you need that something isn't right. HTH, Paul Thanks for the great breakdown Paul. I don't have any keys. I only use drives but just now I noticed I get the warning when I plug in my Transcend USB3 hub even with no drives attached. Also I get faster file transfers when I move files from one internal HDD to another. Speeds of around 130KM/sec. but I guess that is to be expected. When I transfer files from one external Seagate to another I get speeds of one third that. Cables supplied with drives must be making connection as I don't get a warning, just very slow transfer. I'm still not sure what you mean by plastic connector. Are there any pictures online of these? I found this page with info on USB3 detection. This is for Windows 8, so isn't likely to be exactly the same on Windows 7. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/usbcoreblog/...uperspeed.aspx The interesting part is, there is a claim of an updated USBView application in the WDK (Windows Driver Kit). But it requires registration and downloading Visual Studio 2013 or something (which would also require registration). So it's some kind of strip tease for sure. I've had cases in the past, where a certain 25KB utility was promised in some 1GB ot 2GB DVD download, only to find in the release notes of the completely downloaded DVD, that the tool is not included. And the web page announcing it was full of ****. The developers at Microsoft, just *love* this game. Why can't the latest USBView or UVCView just be put on its own web page ? Linux did a pretty good job of displaying three test cases I set up for USB3, but I still don't believe the results. It seems to be telling me, the USB3 stick I believe is functioning properly, lacks proper USB3 identifiers inside. Like the config information isn't the right type for USB3. Linux has tools such as "hwinfo", as in "hwinfo --disk" as well as "lsusb -v" for verbose USB output. That's where I could see that my one good USB3 stick is missing a BOS structure, and I don't know why that is. Paul I think first I need to find a hub that delivers that it's supposed to. Maybe I'll even try another PCIe card as well. OK, found a software gem for you. From our good friend Uwe, the "USB guy". I was looking for a compiled version of the Windows 8 USBView, and I had the source (it's a demo app from Microsoft, with no readily available compiled download). I happened to run into a page from Uwe's site, and he took that source code, fixed it up a bit (like all developers do), and this is the result. http://www.uwe-sieber.de/files/usbtreeview.zip Now I can run my three test cases, and show the results. This is USB3 on USB3 with all pins intact. The stick benchmarks poorly, because it's just got a lousy flash chip in it. bsdusb reports 3.00 and speed reports "SuperSpeed". http://i61.tinypic.com/i26qf6.gif This is USB3 on USB3 with a broken USB3 pin. Instead of nine pins, only eight pins are working, and only the USB2 section is fully intact. Notice that the bcdusb field reports 2.10, even though if the pin was intact the device would be reporting 3.00. I have no idea why they did this, except to take into account, which of the two interfaces were intact. If the USB2 section was broke (and the USB3 section was intact), I think detection would fail entirely. http://i58.tinypic.com/25psuq0.gif And this one is USB3 on a USB2 port. Which reports like the previous (broken pin) case. The bcdusb capability field reports 2.10. And the port runs at 480Mbit/sec. http://i59.tinypic.com/t0giu9.gif Isn't it lucky now, that I have a $60 USB key with a broken pin on it ? :-( I could do this demo. HTH, Paul |
USB3 indicator
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