=)

I think it is an important discussion topic simply because of all the misinformation about
it. However, one thing I forgot to mention is that no one is forcing anyone else to use
Plus -- I know plenty of people that refuse to use Plus for this and other reasons.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2004 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.

"PA Bear" wrote in message ...
Thank you, Jonathan! I was hoping to drag you into this, er..., discussion.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE)

Jonathan Kay [MVP] wrote:
Firstly, you have to understand the Messenger demographics. Do you really
expect a 14-year old kid in the Netherlands to open a PayPal account,
connect to their bank account and send money online for a piece of
software? Plus's largest bulk of users are not in North America nor do
they own credit cards; how do you expect them to pay? Also, "donation"
links rarely get much attention; you either charge for something or you
don't.
Secondly, Microsoft itself doesn't look too favorably on third-party tools
that are making a significant amount of money of their own free software. The whole
"legality" of Plus is actually questionable (although the EULA
can be interpreted in several ways).
Thirdly, there are plenty of "freeware"-like applications that have the
same sort of "sponsor" type model, everything from the banner ad within
Opera to some FTP tools I've seen. This isn't anything new.

Finally, don't believe everything you read. I can find you articles that
say iPod's are delivery mechanisms for transporting people into various
cults or that Bill Gates is an alien. If you say no to the sponsor, then
the sponsor doesn't install; there is absolutely no basis and plenty of
work has been done by cynics in the past to disprove this.
____________________________________________ Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger
Associate Expert
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/
Messenger Resources - http://messenger.jonathankay.com
All posts unless otherwise specified are (c) 2004 Jonathan Kay.
You *must* contact me for redistribution rights.

"Patrick Dickey--MSN Beta Tester" wrote in
message ...
Hmmm.. interesting.. If it weren't for the 'sponsor' he'd be living in the
street. I remember seeing a post about Messenger Plus on one of the
anti-spyware sites where Patchou's response was basically "Too bad."

Here's a thought that I've seen on a lot of other sites.. PAYPAL. Or
StormPay. Your 6 million + members could donate 1 dollar, and you'd never
have to work again.. But, that's not an option, right?

I liked Messenger Plus BEFORE it installed a bunch of spyware crap on my
computer (This was before Patchou stated it in his EULA). I haven't used
it since, and I don't recommend it to anyone. Simply because I've seen
articles that say where his 'sponsor' is optional, it still installs.

Plus, I agree with Sandi about the "Pass-through toolbar". If I want to
change my homepage, search page, and other pages back to what I wanted,
then C2Media, MPlus, or whoever is the 'sponsor' has NO right adding
another toolbar to my computer (for monitoring my habits).
Patrick.

--
Smile... Someone out there cares deeply for you...
"PA Bear" wrote in message
...
For those wondering what all the flap is about regarding lop.com, please
see
the following links:

http://www.doxdesk.com/parasite/lop.html

http://www.spywareinfo.com/articles/lop/

http://www.spywareinfo.com/newslette...une-2003/3.php
(dated, admittedly, but even the current version of MP gives you a "drive
by" install of lop.com)

What Users Say (Good & Bad) About MP
http://www.download.com/3302-2150_4-10320442.html

quote
26-Sep-2004 03:22:12 PM
"I've used this program for 3 years now."
This is awsome software that is now into the third version. I've used it
from version 1.2 without any complaintes. it actually runs more stable
than
msn messenger itself. For all the people who complain about the OPTIONAL
sponsor it should just teach you to actually READ the EULA . if you did
click to fast it is fully documented on how to remove it. This software
would be perfect without the sponsor but then patchou would be living in
the
street. get over it you selfish people.
/quote

quote
26-Sep-2004 06:52:12 AM
"Sponsor disguised as a EULA to trick people into installing..."
Although Patchou and his flock of sheep try to convince people that the
sponsor is easily uninstalled, this is not the case for everyone... Yet
Patchou and these 'loyal' forum members choose to show nothing but
ignorance
and arrogance towards anyone who tries to say that uninstalling and
reinstalling plus, does NOT remove the sponsor... As a previous beta
tester
and previous 'loyal' follower of Patchou and this software, I can
guarantee
that the sponsor does NOT always uninstall without the help of third party
software such as Adaware... Patchou now makes enough money from people
being
'tricked' into installing the sponsor, that greed has taken over and he no
longer cares about the users of his software... Although Plus is a good
addon for MSN, I advise people to take particular care when installing so
as
to avoid the installation of what is definitely spyware... I don't know
who
you are trying to kid, Patchou, but it is just that...spyware... It is not
a
toolbar like the google toolbar... It is intrusive and very hard to get
rid
of... Therefore, it is nothing but spyware...
/quote

IMO Pachou is to be congratulated for attempting to clarify his
relationship
with C2 Media (who *still* subtly bury malware in what's called a 'drive
by'
install)

Help with Hijackware
http://aumha.org/a/parasite.htm
http://aumha.org/a/quickfix.htm
http://mvps.org/winhelp2002/unwanted.htm
http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/Darnit.htm
http://www.mvps.org/sramesh2k/Malware_Defence.htm
--
~PA Bear

PA Bear wrote:
Enough about the 'End of Free Hotmail' already. Let's dissect Messenger
Plus! now...

Sandi's take on Messenger Plus!
http://inetexplorer.mvps.org/data/messenger_plus.htm

Ready, steady, GO!