D.Currie wrote:
"Bill Drake" wrote...
D.Currie wrote:
"Bill Drake" wrote...
D.Currie wrote:
Personally, I'd like to see some way to enforce the rule that OEMs
have to support the software. Or maybe lose the ability to sell
OEM.

There is no way to enforce this rule. It is always possible for
the unethical provider to come up with a plausible excuse for
non-support.


As a small system builder, my customers can come in and ask me
questions face-to-face, and that's fine. Or they'll call. But I
also get plenty of calls from people who have bought from the big
guys, and they can't get an answer.

And as a result, the unethical providers are dumping their support
costs on your back -- increasing their profits at your expense.
Their shareholder dividends are the direct result of your altruism
-- and this is a very conscious and deliberate policy on their part
IMO.



Then there are the people who sell the oem software with trinkets,
and have no intention or ability to answer questions.

See above. Another example of the same. You've just described
simply a more-obvious example...


I don't mind answering customer's questions, and even the not-yet
customers -- I figure some day I will get their business.

No. Many customers are just as unethical as the abovementioned
providers. They'll rape you and leave you freezing -- pay you 5
cents on the dollar and scream with outrage at that -- and drive
your business into the ground.

Save your time and energy for clients who come to you straight-out
looking for value and willing to pay a fair price in the first
place. These are the only people worth your time and energy.



But it does irritate me that others shirk the responsibility to
give the technical support they're supposed to. They aren't
footing the cost for proper support, so they sell their stuff
cheap, which is fine for the customer until they need help. And
in the meantime,
I'm providing free tech support in the hopes that I'll get work
from that person in the meantime.

You're a fool to give these people the time of day.


The advice I offer on the phone costs me as little as what
responding on these newsgroups does. And the ones on the
phone have the potential of becoming customers.

If you are successful at this, you will find yourself spending more
and more time giving "free" advice to these people. As long as
you *have* free time -- this is fine.

I've owned the store for 6 years, and I've managed to work it out.
Some things can't easily be solved over the phone, and some people
should not stick their hands inside their computers. In six years,
I've had very few people who simply waste my time, and if I have
other things that need to be done, that's what I do. If it's a
problem that intrigues me, or a person the I enjoy helping, it's my
time to waste.

Agreed. And if you've managed to stay in business for 6 years,
then obviously you've managed to find a way to balance your time
between altruistic behaviour and stuff that pays the bills.



It's when you get busy and start saying things like "I can't help you
now" -- that you will find there are unreasonable and loutish clients
who are simply rude and demanding -- even when you are being a
"nice guy".

I've done that. No one's gotten rude or demanding.

My own personal experience in the business -- along with the experience
of many of the dealers with whom I associate -- has been the complete
opposite. The vast majority of people in the Computer Industry I've
talked to in any of the major metropolitan centres in North America tell
me monotonously-similar stories.

I am *really* pleased this hasn't happened to you. I am also *very*
surprised this hasn't happened to you. All things considered -- I'd move
wherever you are in a nanosecond and work there happily... grin


Actually I've gotten quite a few customers who've come in for
service after calling, since some people, even with instruction,
are skittish about doing certain things with their computer. And
I have quite a number of customers who ignore their warranty
and bring the computer to me for repair. Or I diagnose they
problem, they get parts under warranty, and I replace them.
So it's not all bad.

Fine. They're paying you for this service.


And many have come to me because they called first, and I offered
some simple suggestions. If it was something they couldn't do, or didn't
work, they bring the work to me. It doesn't always happen, but we
also get a lot of referrals from those sorts of people because we're
not rude when people call with questions.

And that's simply good business practice. So, if that's good business
practice, then why don't Dell, Gateway, HP, IBM, or MS follow those
procedures? Because they cost more money than dumping the process
on the backs of others.

And this simply encourages an irresponsible attitude on the part of
*everyone* in the business -- and that irresponsible attitude turns
broken hardware and software into a way of life that makes computers
so frustrating and unrewarding that *fewer and fewer* use PCs willingly
anymore.

And that's why we're in this slump.


As far as the enforceability of it, there's no way they could get
all of the ones who don't provide support, but they could crack
down on the most blatant offenders. And you'd think it would be
easy for them to muscle companies like Dell and Gateway and
the like. When people call for support and day, "Dell won't help
me" they've got the evidence right there.

Of course, they won't do it, but it would be nice.

I noticed you didn't quote the further paragraphs in my previous
post. Nor did you comment on that. Yet you made the above
remark. I find that sad.


I snipped after Mike B's header as that seemed to be a response to
what he said. Why you find that sad, I don't know, as now that I've
looked back on it, you snipped all of his post and responded to
Testy's one line. As far as my not commenting on it, this "marketeer"
thing seems to be one of your personal hotspots, which is fine. But I
tend to respond to things that either I can help with or that I have
a comment about because it interests and/or amuses me.

I'm sure that you also pick and choose what you respond to.

Agreed.



The "Of course, they won't do it" is *intimately" tied into the whole
airhead marketing-mentality avoidance-of-responsibility mindset
that dumps marketeer-created problems into other people's laps.

And your high-minded "noble" attitude to the problem is part of
the reason this silly nonsense continues.

Oh, I doubt that I'm being noble at all. I help non-customers on the
phone because I find that it's a good way to turn a percentage of
them into customers. If I look at what it costs me to answers those
questions vs. what it costs me for print advertising, then look at
the number of customers each gets me, the "being nice to people"
on the phone gets me more customers.

No problem. Sound business practice. See above for why so many
in the industry don't follow the practice -- and the inevitable consequence.


As far as answering questions on the newsgroup, it's a great way to
learn what sorts of problems other people are having on their
computers, so that when I run across the same issue with a customer's
computer, I have some ideas what to look for. It's certainly more
interesting than memorizing the knowledge base.

And we're all here on the newsgroups because our collective knowledge
is *way* more powerful than the knowledgebase will *ever* be. And
everybody knows it. And that's why I participate in discussions like this
one -- because *this* is how we gather the consensus required to change
the world.




Marketeers need to be ground up, spit out and pounded into
the ground for turning this business into a circus that only a fool
could love.

Well, you've already called me a fool, so there you have it.

You've missed my point. I said you were a fool if you wasted your
time dealing with the ungrateful and those who would pay you 5 cents
on the dollar for your work.

I stand behind that statement.


From what you've told me -- you have somehow avoided that trap.
Good for you.

By a combination of good luck, good management and good
location -- your client-base is remarkably free of the kind of
wasteful freeloaders that drive many well-intentioned businesses
into the ground. This is great -- and I wish you well.



Best I can do for now. tm


Bill