On 14/07/2018 19:51, NY wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...

In message , Java Jive
writes:

On 13/07/2018 18:26, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

In England, it's roughly a north-south divide: in London, the
leader of the city is pronounced the same as a female horse, and the
blooming part of a plant is pronounced the same as ground grain; in
more northern towns and cities, these words - like your ewer - have
a definite two syllables.

No, not at all.Â* I was 'fraightfully' well bought up in the south of
England, and to me 'mayor', 'ewer', and 'flower' are all audibly two
syllables, 'mare' and 'your' certainly one, and 'flour' somewhere in
between, but I'd say more one than two.

I think JJ might be referring to inner-London accents (formerly Cockney,
now Estuary English), as opposed to all south-of-England accents.

No, you've completely misunderstood me - I mean that I was brought up
in what was then termed, and perhaps still is now however much I may
dislike such stereotyping, an upper-middle class family, with minor
aristocratic connections. I went to a 'good' school and learnt to speak
'The Queen's English' which the BBC would call 'Received Pronunciation'
or RP. However, in my middle to late teens I refused to go back to that
school, which I hated, and instead went to what we'd now call a 6th form
college in SE London, and that was when my accent, not to mention
vernacular vocabulary, started to diversify! My accent now has
smatterings of RP, Scots both because my mother's family were from up
here and I now live here, SE 'Lunnon', and almost everywhere else that
I've lived, such as 'Brissol', Cambridge, etc.

However, the words we were discussing, I still pronounce essentially the
same way as I was brought up to do, just, hopefully, in a more everyday
and less noticeably upper class twittish sort of way. Thus I was
refuting J P Gilliver's assertion that in the south mayor = mare, etc.
There are noticeable differences between northern and southern accents,
but I never met anyone who pronounces 'mayor' as 'mare'. There may well
be such people, but I've lived around a good few places around the
south, and cannot recall hearing this, so I doubt if it can be very common.

Delighted to hear it. (And I'd agree about flour.) So the border is
obviously very complex. Interesting to hear that it exists in the USA
too. I was going to say maybe it's a class (or clarse, as some
pronounce that word; I pronounce it to rhyme with lass) thing, but you
say you were, as you put it, "fraightfully" well brought up and in the
south, yet you pronounce as I do. Maybe it's (or started as)
"affected" class.

I think at least the areas (and perhaps classes?) where "flower" is a
term of endearment - "that's all right, flower" - always pronounce it
as two syllables.

There is nothing funnier than a person who is trying (and failing
spectacularly) to put on a more refayned accent.

Or the other way around ...

My mother, like some other Scots people, had the unconscious habit of
mimicking those they were talking to. Once my stepfather's star
research graduate rang up, and although she never spoke his name, I
could tell immediately from her unconscious mimicry of him exactly who
it was - he was from India - and I was sent out of the room because
I near fell off my chair laughing.

And also ...

http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Re...s/Accents.html