Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
Paul wrote:
Bill in Co wrote:
Steve Hayes wrote:
On Wed, 9 Jan 2019 12:45:05 -0700, "Bill in Co"
surly_curmudgeon@earthlink wrote:

Was just curious how many had taken the plunge and were happy about
it. I don't have any experience with Windows 10, but from what I can
gather, you "just" have to get used to its new interface, the use of
"apps" (which I assume are nearly the same thing as what we used to
call programs), the forced MS updates, and that many of the older
programs can't be successfully imported. Oh, and that you can get a
classic start menu without tiles. (I'm not sure what the distinction
is between apps and programs on Windows 10). Is all that about
correct?
"Apps" is short for "Applications Programs", as opposed to systems
programs and utilities.

Apps are what you use your computer FOR, as opposed to programs that
enable the keyboard to communicate with CPU, the screen to display
stuff, things to be written to the disk drives etc.
OK, so basically what we used to call our useful software programs in
the pre-Windows 10 era is now called "apps", and it's just a change in
terminology. And those "apps" are still just exe files.

I'm used to the term apps only for Android devices, where that
terminology is standard.
It's pretty hard to tell what the software is made of.

For example, I "dump" an EXE file in Program Files\WindowsApps
and the header portion has a "PE32+" signature, while the
tail end is... text. It's a manifest of stuff to launch or a
set of dependencies or something.

A utility that would normally identify it, calls it "PE32+",
which is disingenuous. As that's not what it is.

Paul

So that PE32+ is just identifying what it is by its name classification
only (as a 32 bit program executable). I looked it up and found the +
means 64 bit version. Interesting!

But it's basically "just" an EXE file. So it's ultimately the compiled
program's machine code that makes up the program, as I see it And THAT
(the nature and structure of EXE file) is a pretty involved story,
including links to DLL libraries and a host of other stuff.

And so "apps" has basically got to be some sort of executable file that
runs on the Android OS, right? Something that was previously compiled
for the Linux OS. Just not an "exe" or a "com" file, but something
analogous to that, I expect.

I don't know much about Linux. I dabbled with it briefly using Cinnamon
Mint, but found it just wasn't worth all the hassle, considering all the
stuff I've already got set up by using Windows. But, that said, it was
an "interesting", if not sometimes taxing, experience. I can see if
somebody had the motivation and inclination, they could be content with
it for many, if not most, things.

No, I was referring to me checking Windows 10. Windows 10
has PE32/PE32+ for traditional "win32" applications. Those
have perfectly conventional header signatures plus binary blobs
in the body of the file.

The file I found in WindowsApps, is a part of a Metro app. The
file happened to end in EXE, but if you go to Start : Run and
"execute" it, it fails to start. And that's because, the body of
it doesn't contain what we think it contains.

Instead, Windows 10 Metro Apps are "launched". One
of the launching methods is "explorer shell:string-o-stuff"
and the manifest of the program is examined and all the
bits and pieces loaded somehow. There's a claim the "app" is
insulated in some way, so it cannot write in arbitrary places.
And even if it could, the App is only "downloaded" from the
Windows Store. If you reinstall the OS, even the "purchased"
Apps from the Windows Store are re-downloaded and put in the
WindowsApps folder. It's a curated garden, rather than an
"install from .msi" kind of thing.

Portions of this environment were also supposed to be HTML/JS,
but my attempts to examine it so far, aren't turning up any such
materials, neither any kind of "ZIP" or "JAR" containing
stuff like that.

It remains a mystery (for me), as to what all the
component parts are.

Microsoft has also made attempts to make simplified programming
tools, so you can make your own "App". Basically little better than
a "scrapbook with pictures" in a sense. But these efforts come and
go, and I don't know if any of those are still running (web based).
You will undoubtedly also find tools in the latest Visual Studio
for this. (There is an option when you start a new project,
to generate a "skeleton" program with the appropriate overheads
for creating your own program of a particular type.) Another way to
study how the App works then, would be to study the source created
by the App Generator (an empty App that doesn't do anything).

Other environments use Javascript, Python, and C, just to name
a few. With the odd case of Java (for programs that run on multiple
platforms). Java runs inside your BluRay player.

Paul

So I was "a bit" confused when I read all of this, and then also read that
MS is pushing these "Universal Windows Platform" Apps that will run on all
compatible MS devices (personal computers, tablets, smartphones, Xbox, etc)
on the Wiki site. Wow, what a revolutionary concept (to me) So I guess the
UWP Apps are basically the same thing as the Metro Style Apps you mentioned
above. And these apps use the "APPX" file format. Interesting, albeit a bit
confusing it seems if you want to look into it..

Well, let me see if I understand this much, at least.

So does that mean that there are two types of "programs" running on a
Windows 10 computer? One class of programs that uses the old exe style of
code (used perhaps solely for the OS related stuff), and another class of
programs (the apps you can buy) that use this universal app format thing?
(I think Steve Hayes might have been hinting at this too, but I'm not sure).
It's still a bit confusing.