On 03/07/2019 4:02 PM, T wrote:
On 3/7/19 10:36 AM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 03/07/2019 11:49 AM, Mayayana wrote:
"T" wrote

|Why is it again I need 300,386 different versions of Dot Net
installed anyway?
|

Â*Â*Â* The VC runtime is smaller, but probably much worse in
terms of numbers. Programs are rigged to require the
exact compile of a 10-15 MB runtime that they were written
with.
Â*Â*Â* On XP I have 3 versions of the VC2005 runtime, 3 for
2008, along with 6 hotfixes, one for VC2010 and one
for VC 2012. And I don't actually install much software.

Â*Â* On the bright side, I could fit 50-100 of those in the
space that the .Net slop takes up, and I don't even have
the latest and bloatedest of those.

Â*Â* But software on Windows works. Most doesn't require
lots of extra support libraries that are not part of the install.
And it won't be outdated in a year. I can write software
that runs on Win98-Win10 without needing extra support
libraries. How many of your programs in the latest Fedora
will even run on 3-year-old Fedora, much less 15-year-old
Red Hat? And how many 3-year-old programs will run on the
latest version? In my experience, even updating the stuff
that comes on the CD requires updating vast numbers of
system libraries.

Â*Â*Â* That's why Windows is everywhere. They catered to
businesses, made programming relatively easy, and
made backward compatibility a religion. I'm using an
18 year old OS and most current software runs fine
on it. And there's lots of software. The only way for
Linux to look good is the extremely low expectations
you have: You test in a VM, put up with lots of broken
updates, and don't expect backward compatibility.
For that matter, you don't even expect a good variety
of software. Behind almost every Linux or Apple fan
is a Windows box that they use "when they need to
do work".

Â*Â*Â* Yes, you can set up a
Grandma as long as you show her how to do web
browsing and email. My very elderly father used to use
a Linux kiosk-type system for the elderly, called Wow.
It was a very limited, giant tablet with no access to
the file system. People could also use an iPad. But
having a good desktop that can be used for years
without having to update, and with all the software
you want available.... that's not going to happen.

Â*Â* If only it was worth it for some charitable foundation
to make it work, then there could be hope. If people
decided that the public needs a good, unfettered,
non-commercial, standardized system then Windows
could be dropped. But the closest to that so far was
Shuttleworth, who ended up shipping adware. Linux
started with an idea something like that, but it was only
geeks making an OS for geeks.

Â*Â*Â* The only real solution would be create
an organization so big and connected that everyone
would see it as worthwhile to invest their time and
programming in that one system, which would then
be universal. Sort of like what HTML is now, despite
attempts by the likes of AOL, Facebook, Google,
Microsoft, and Adobe to usurp the Internet.

Â*Â*Â* What's more likely to happen is that some pseudo-
philanthropist like Bill Gates will decide to save the
world with his brilliance and offer to create a free
spyware product. Then we'll all be distracted discussing
whether the Gatesmobile OS, or the Getty Foundation
OS, is going to be the next big thing, until it finally isn't.

Â*Â* (I just read the other day that Bill Gates, after having
ceremoniously given away much of his wealth, is
currently worth $96B. $6B more than last year. I guess
generosity is good work if you can get it.)




Nice to see many of my oldÂ* Windows 95, 98 and XP programs still work
in Windows 10
Jasc paint shop pro 7
Resume maker.
Avery Label maker etc.

I have 2 CD cases with about 50 or 70 program CDs going back over the
last 24 years, most of them still install and run on Windows 10.
Pretty nice backwards compatibility Eh.
Lets see Linux do that, aLso my 12 year old Okidata c5150n printer
still works fine with the same drivers and no hassle install on
Windows 10.
Every time Linux Mint updates I have to fight with it to get it to
work on Mint. Now don't get me wrong I like Mint 19.1 but when I need
to do serious work or do colour printing I have to stay with Windows.

Rene





Very interesting.

I have had a different experience.Â* Do you guys remember the "Most
compatible Windows ever (Vista)" (liars)?Â* I made a fine living
for a couple of years reverting Vista users back to XP, whist
their software vendors struggled to figure out what M$ broke
this time.

It is very common for new version of Windows to trash old versions
of software that my customer use.Â* Backwards compatibility, my ass.

I have a retired radio design engineer for a customer.Â* I love
visiting him as I also am a former radio designer and he
has a lab in his basement to die for.Â* His still designs
things as a hobby.Â* Even does moon bounces.

Part of his weaponry is a slew of 8 bit and 16 programs
for running radio design analysis.Â* And he can't replace
them as no one out there understand the technology enough
to write a suitable replacement (I can personally verify
he is correct).

Obviously, none of his programs will work under Windows 10,
x64.Â* They do, by the way, run perfectly under Linux's Wine
and Dos Box.Â* What we finally wound up doing was getting
a refurbished XP computer from the used computer store
and he runs it off line in his lab.Â* So now he
has both a w10 and a XP computer in his lab.

My experience with Linux is wild.Â* First off, I have had
zero trouble with Fedora.Â* Well, not exactly zero, but few
and the developers are very responsive and fix things usually
within a month.

M$ fix anything ????Â* HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What I have had trouble with is RHEL and clones (cent OS,
Scientific Linux).Â* RHEL is an anti Kaisen OS, meaning it
is locked down to an old, defunct version of Fedora and
has very little development done in itas to not "break
things".Â* I have bug reports out on it that are over seven
years old that have not been addressed.Â* By the way, you
can make your own RHEL from any OS by simply turning off
your updates.

RHEL fix anything ????Â* HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

RHEL drove me insane.Â* I lost it when a bug in Osmo
deleted my business contacts (I have a lot of backup)
and Osmo had already fixed it, but RHEL was too far
out of date for Osmo to help me.Â* And qemu-kwm,
Red Hat's premier virtual machine, could not run
any of their wonderful enhancements and bugs fixes
for the same reason as Osmo could not.

The irony that KVM is a Red Hat project and could not
run their fixes and enhancements on RHEL was not lost
on me.Â* When I wiped and reinstalled Fedora, my eyes
were wide openÂ* watching all the things I had been
suffering with get fixed.Â* It was over a year
ago and I still get a case of the giggles running
Fedora.

Every new Windows breaks all kinds of my customer's
stuff.Â* It is a real merry go round.Â* Fortunately,
I am always able to help them around it one way or
another.Â*Â* I hold my breath every time 10 comes out
with a new build.

For those Windows users that can not longer run
their old programs under the latest version of
Windows, Linux's Wine and Dos Box is an option,
as is running a virtual machine of whatever version
of Windows is required to run their programs.



Hah, I too designed a radio back about 1973.
I used a 75 watt McIntosh amplifier, A Sony 5 deck cassette player, 3 30
watt outdoor horns 75 feet of 12 gauge twisted pair stranded speaker
cable, about 150 feet of Belden twisted pair shielded cable with XLR
balanced connectors and a Shure high quality microphone.
I set this up on an outdoor skating rink for the Concert hall,
Planetarium and Museum where I worked.
The equipment was in the underground parkad, The speakers were mounted
on a lamp standard about 12 feet high and the Mic was at the other end
of the rink in the warmup shelter.
Well when I got this up and running we Found that we were receiving
Radio station CKY at 580 KC Loud and Clear.
Needless to say I had to quickly round up some RF chokes and resistors
and brew up a notch filter to eliminate this unwelcome guest. :-) great
times


Rene