"w_tom" wrote in
ups.com:


TO ANYONE FOLLOWING THIS THREAD......

I SHOULD HAVE REALIZED IT MANY POSTS BACK, BUT W_TOM IS A GOOGLE GROUPS
POSTER, WHICH EXPLAINS EVERYTHING.


Somehow DanS assumes a 900 joule or 1600 joule MOV protector will
absorb what three miles of sky could not. DanS has so little grasp as
to assume a 100 amp transient is a typical surge. Surges are on the
order of 10,000 amps. Cited was a tiny 100 amp surge that wall
receptacle wire could not conduct DanS had little knowledge and then
assumed that was a good earthing ground. It could not even conduct a
tiny 100 amp surge which DanS assumed is a typical surge.

No......I did math on numbers YOU provided. I am not a moron like you. I
kow that lightning can be thousands of amps and millions of volts. Great,
you are telling me that 12 gauge house wiring couldn't take a 100 amp surge
of ANY length of time ?



Somehow, DanS confuses 12,000 volts on 50 feet of wire inside wall
with 12,000 volts across a protector. Apparently done to deceive the
lurker. Electronics charged to 12,000 volts will simply leak
electricity destructively through other paths to earth ground because
that wall receptacle ground wire is too long, too many bends, bundled
with other wires, etc. A protector will not absorb voltage to earth
because protector has no connection to earth. Why? Wire is at 12,000
volts.
But again, DanS assumes that APC's undersized 900 joules will
somehow
stop what three miles of sky could not. DanS does not even know what
'joules' measure. And yet he is an expert on surge protection?

No a**hole, YOU do not know what a joule measures.

-1 joule equals the work needed to produce one watt of power continuously
for one second.

-A joule is a measurement of energy. It is the amount of energy that is
being consumed when one watt of power works for one second. This is also
known as a wattsecond.

This also scales linearily.


DanS - both Monster Cable and sub-$100 protector use equivalent MOV
circuits in direct contradiction to what you have posted. Same
circuit as defined by numbers provided by you. Did you have
insufficient technical knowledge to understand the significance of
those numbers?

I never said they did not have similar circuitry.. It would be interesting
to see what kind of reading comprehension scores you would get on a test.


Let's start by teaching what a surge protector does - Surge
Protector 101:
http://www.telebyteusa.com/primer/ch6.htm


So lightning of 50,000 amps dissipates maybe one million volts in
earth. That is maybe 1.5 million joules. How does a 900 joule
protector absorb that surge?

No, your math is flawed. 50,000 Amps x 1,000,000 volts = 50,000,000,000
watts. That's 50 billion watts. If that was for 1 ms, it would be
50,000,000 joules. Me thinks YOU don't know what your talking about.

Now, cut & pasted from one of _YOUR_ sources.....

"The first stroke of lightning during a thunderstorm can produce peak
currents ranging from 1,000 to 100,000 Amperes with rise times of 1
microsecond. It is hard to conceive of, let alone protect against, such
enormous magnitudes. Fortunately, such threats only apply to direct hits on
overhead lines. Hopefully, this is a rare phenomenon."

"More common is the induced surge on a buried cable. In one test,
lightning-induced voltages caused by strokes in ground flashes at distances
of about 5 km were measured at both ends of a 448 meter long, unenergized
power distribution line. Typical test results are illustrated in Figure 18.
Notice that the maximum-induced surge exceeds 80 Volts peak-to-peak. This
is more than enough to destroy semiconductor devices and computer related
equipment. Yet, 80 Volts is well within the range of affordable
protection."

So the more violent rarely occurs, and that is direct hit to the above
wiring. the next paragraph goes on to describe the most common hits, and
then says this "well within the range of affordable protection".

It does not as taught in Surge
Protector 101. Meanwhile effective 'whole house' protectors with
short earthing connections are rated for 50,000 amps - to remain
functional. Don't take my word for it. Learn about effective
protectors. Read from boxes in Lowes and Home Depot

So you are learning from advertising literature on product boxes ?

, or read internet
posted specifications from GE, Siemens, Cutler Hammer, Square D,
Intermatic, and Leviton. DanS - learn some facts before reiterating
half truths from store shelves. You did not even know a '900 joules'
number until forcefully challenged. You still don't know that 900
joules in that APC is woefully undersized.

Well geez d*ickhead, I did know that 900 rating, which was contained in the
link to the APC product I mentioned, AND in the body of the post as well.
Again, you are not reading most things.


What do effective protectors provide? A dedicated wire for a 'less
than 10 foot' connection to earth. What does your sub-$100 UPS and
Monster Cable both not discuss since neither even claims such
protection? Earthing.

Meanwhile DanS has just passively conceding that his recommendations
do not provide EMI / RFI protection. Concedes that the Monster Cable
and sub-$100 UPS have same protector circuit. Slowly he is being
moved to reality.

No, I said they DO contain EMI/RFI protection. I have conceded to NOTHING,
other than you are an a**hole.


We should spend $100 to protect only one appliance? If not for
lightning, then what are we spending so much money to protect from?
DanS still will not say. Somehow there is this other mystery surge
that he will not define. Somehow spec numbers, literally based on
timing of lightning surges, are not really for lightning protection?
But again, we catch DanS speculating because he did not first learn
spec numbers.

Dan also believes a shunt mode protector will somehow operate in
series - to absorb surge energy. Again he is assuming without first
learning what MOVs do. They are shunt mode devices. Better MOVs that
conduct to earth are better shunt mode protection. They work by
shunting - not absorbing. Somehow DanS even assumes a protector will
somehow absorb 12,000 volts out of the 50 feet AC wire; confusing
voltage across a protector with voltage to earth ground.

No, I do know what MOV's are and how they operate.


If DanS really knew antennas, then he knew what industry
professionals say:
http://www.harvardrepeater.org/news/lightning.html

The lurker is cautioned about junk science experts who could not
bother to first learn the numbers, what numbers mean, and how a
protector really works (it shunts). DanS would have us believe shunt
mode protectors operate in series mode. That these devices do EMI/RFI
protection when their own numerical specs don't even make that claim.

No, I would NOT have you believe it operates in series. I know what it does
and how it operates. I never claimed that any surge protection offered
EMI/RFI protection. I did say that a not-super-cheap UPS's contain EMI/RFI
protection, which is documented in product literature.



Instead, protection is about earthing. Effective 'whole house'
protectors with responsible brand names also make that 'less than 10
foot' connection to earth. Somehow APC's undersized 900 joules will
stop or absorb what three miles of sky could not? That is what DanS
claims. Be wary of 'experts' who could not even cite manufacturer's
numerical specifications and who did not know what numbers measured -
but somehow know that it works.


NO, THAT IS NOT WHAT DANS CLAIMS.

DanS claims that you are a troll retard loser that when confronted with
articles from learned, experienced people and are supplied product
literature when asked, and presented even more facts, you can do know more
that CHANGE what you are saying I claimed, and try to change the entire
context of what had been said that did not agree with your arguments.