On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 11:45:48 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive


With Win7 support ending on Jan 14,2020
how will that affect my computer's not
being able download security updates etc.?

Thanks,
Robert

Let's make a list:

Security Updates no longer made for Windows 7 = No lengthy Windows Updates
You AV fleet offers some coverage.

Fleet of AV scanners you own = Supported for now, support gradually dropping away
after a couple of years. The extent of the "danger"
is a function of how many scrapes you and the
computer have got into, over the years. Only you
know how reckless you've been clicking stuff with
the computer mouse...

New versions of Web Browsers magically won't run on Windows 7 = It's hard to imagine
this happening. It would
take a concerted effort
from MS to do this.

*******

I could switch to Windows 10 for free = Yeah, you could, but:
1) Have to prepare for it.
2) Win10 is more of a pain in the ass
3) Win10 is more nosy. You have to remember to
program all the sliders to OFF.
4) Microsoft rates its maintenance activity as
more important than you being able to use
the computer.
5) The 8500 will comfortably run Win10.
The 780 meets the requirements but
isn't a powerhouse when running Win10.
The 780 would run Win10 like my typing
machine runs Win10 - when Windows Defender
goes crazy, the browsing could be a little
slow.

To make a transition plan, you have to figure out how desirable
Win10 is, and what config to use for 8500 and 780.

8500 780
+------------------+ +------------------+
| Win10 over top | | Win7 (unchanged) |
| of Win7 | | |
+------------------+ +------------------+

8500 780
+------------------+-------------------+ +------------------+
| Win7 (unchanged) | Win10 beside Win7 | | Win7 (unchanged) |
| | (dual boot setup) | | |
+------------------+-------------------+ +------------------+

And then there would be more diagrams, where we had the same sort of
options for the 780.

When you dual boot, the bootup can be slower. When you boot
the "non-default" OS, the machine basically has to restart
twice. It can feel like the process takes two minutes.

"Win10 over top of Win7" is easy.

1) Make backup of OS drive to separate backup drive.
This is your safety backup, in case something happens.

2) https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/soft...load/windows10

Get MediaCreationTool, if your machine has Win7 Professional
you order up Win10 Professional x64. If your machine has
Win7 Home Premium, you order up Win10 Home x64 disc. The
1903 image on offer, has a total of seven OS flavors, of which
both of the flavors you need, will be on the one disc.

3) With Windows 7 running, mount the downloaded ISO9660 file that
MediaCreationTool got for you. 3,967,483,904 bytes.

But this article tells you that Win7 doesn't have a native mounter.
While Win8.1 and Win10 do. You'll need to burn a DVD then, for sure,
and the DVD will also come in handy for "clean installs".

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/wind...windows-vista/

Once the DVD is burned, open the DVD in File Explorer until
you see Setup.exe and double click it. If all goes well,
in an hour or two, you'll see a Windows 10 OS. There should be
no boot menu in this case, because by running Setup.exe, we've
done a "Win10 over Win7" install.

When it asks for an account, the OS is "sneaky", and tries to
rope you into giving up an email address. Use "Offline account"
in the bottom left hand corner.

https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...10-a-msa-1.jpg

*******

The other kind of install, is to install Windows 10 beside
Windows 7, so that both OSes are available from a boot menu.

For one of those, you boot from the DVD using your computer
popup boot menu, then select the "Custom" option and tell the
computer that the blank partition you prepared for it, is
where the OS is supposed to go. This requires using a
Partition Manager application in advance, shrinking C:
(you can do that from Disk Management actually), and
creating a partition for Windows 10. If you use a 30GB
partition, the installer will compress a lot of materials,
which isn't good. If you used an 80GB partition, that's
probably enough that it won't be "cranky".

And we don't need to boot this DVD in UEFI mode, because
your setups are legacy MBR and BIOS setups (UEFI+CSM BIOS
would do, or a traditional legacy BIOS would work). I think
your setup is utterly conventional, so I don't have to
address a bunch of options.

+-----+-----------------------------+
| MBR | Win7 | === shrink C:
+-----+-----------------------------+

+-----+---------------+-------------+
| MBR | Win7 | 80GB Win10 | === create an empty 80GB partition
+-----+---------------+-------------+

Boot Win10 DVD and install. Type license key
into activation dialog.

This web page will answer a lot of your questions
about installing side-by-side by booting the DVD
and doing a "clean install into a partition". If you
were to accept standard options and not use Custom,
it might "blow away" Windows 7 instead. You have to
tell it what you want to do, for it to work out well.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html

Now, I know this post is not in the level of detail you
expect. I think you have the skill level to do it, but
there are bound to be some rough edges where you get
in trouble. So, you'd only modify one machine at
a time, and use the second machine to dial out for
help.

As they say at the mechanics shop "you can pay me now or
you can pay me later, but you'll pay me". Microsoft is
like that mechanic, sitting in the corner snickering
as you try to set this stuff up. It's a lot of nuisance
just so you can have maintenance and continuity.

Oh, and with your fleet of AVs, you'll likely need to
uninstall Avira or Avast before doing some flavors of
installation, as they can interfere with an install.
This is most likely to happen in the "Win10 over Win7"
case. The other stuff, like some "SpywareScanner", is less
likely to blow up the install.

Many install failures will roll back on their own if
there is trouble. But, rollback takes an hour or two
of disk grinding activity, and is "plenty annoying".
I only put up with a rollback once, just to prove it
works. I usually cut them off at the knees, and restore
from backup, because that's a few minutes faster for me.

So that's the situation.

Paul



On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 11:45:48 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive


With Win7 support ending on Jan 14,2020
how will that affect my computer's not
being able download security updates etc.?

Thanks,
Robert

Let's make a list:

Security Updates no longer made for Windows 7 = No lengthy Windows Updates
You AV fleet offers some coverage.

Fleet of AV scanners you own = Supported for now, support gradually dropping away
after a couple of years. The extent of the "danger"
is a function of how many scrapes you and the
computer have got into, over the years. Only you
know how reckless you've been clicking stuff with
the computer mouse...

New versions of Web Browsers magically won't run on Windows 7 = It's hard to imagine
this happening. It would
take a concerted effort
from MS to do this.

*******

I could switch to Windows 10 for free = Yeah, you could, but:
1) Have to prepare for it.
2) Win10 is more of a pain in the ass
3) Win10 is more nosy. You have to remember to
program all the sliders to OFF.
4) Microsoft rates its maintenance activity as
more important than you being able to use
the computer.
5) The 8500 will comfortably run Win10.
The 780 meets the requirements but
isn't a powerhouse when running Win10.
The 780 would run Win10 like my typing
machine runs Win10 - when Windows Defender
goes crazy, the browsing could be a little
slow.

To make a transition plan, you have to figure out how desirable
Win10 is, and what config to use for 8500 and 780.

8500 780
+------------------+ +------------------+
| Win10 over top | | Win7 (unchanged) |
| of Win7 | | |
+------------------+ +------------------+

8500 780
+------------------+-------------------+ +------------------+
| Win7 (unchanged) | Win10 beside Win7 | | Win7 (unchanged) |
| | (dual boot setup) | | |
+------------------+-------------------+ +------------------+

And then there would be more diagrams, where we had the same sort of
options for the 780.

When you dual boot, the bootup can be slower. When you boot
the "non-default" OS, the machine basically has to restart
twice. It can feel like the process takes two minutes.

"Win10 over top of Win7" is easy.

1) Make backup of OS drive to separate backup drive.
This is your safety backup, in case something happens.

2) https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/soft...load/windows10

Get MediaCreationTool, if your machine has Win7 Professional
you order up Win10 Professional x64. If your machine has
Win7 Home Premium, you order up Win10 Home x64 disc. The
1903 image on offer, has a total of seven OS flavors, of which
both of the flavors you need, will be on the one disc.

3) With Windows 7 running, mount the downloaded ISO9660 file that
MediaCreationTool got for you. 3,967,483,904 bytes.

But this article tells you that Win7 doesn't have a native mounter.
While Win8.1 and Win10 do. You'll need to burn a DVD then, for sure,
and the DVD will also come in handy for "clean installs".

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/wind...windows-vista/

Once the DVD is burned, open the DVD in File Explorer until
you see Setup.exe and double click it. If all goes well,
in an hour or two, you'll see a Windows 10 OS. There should be
no boot menu in this case, because by running Setup.exe, we've
done a "Win10 over Win7" install.

When it asks for an account, the OS is "sneaky", and tries to
rope you into giving up an email address. Use "Offline account"
in the bottom left hand corner.

https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...10-a-msa-1.jpg

*******

The other kind of install, is to install Windows 10 beside
Windows 7, so that both OSes are available from a boot menu.

For one of those, you boot from the DVD using your computer
popup boot menu, then select the "Custom" option and tell the
computer that the blank partition you prepared for it, is
where the OS is supposed to go. This requires using a
Partition Manager application in advance, shrinking C:
(you can do that from Disk Management actually), and
creating a partition for Windows 10. If you use a 30GB
partition, the installer will compress a lot of materials,
which isn't good. If you used an 80GB partition, that's
probably enough that it won't be "cranky".

And we don't need to boot this DVD in UEFI mode, because
your setups are legacy MBR and BIOS setups (UEFI+CSM BIOS
would do, or a traditional legacy BIOS would work). I think
your setup is utterly conventional, so I don't have to
address a bunch of options.

+-----+-----------------------------+
| MBR | Win7 | === shrink C:
+-----+-----------------------------+

+-----+---------------+-------------+
| MBR | Win7 | 80GB Win10 | === create an empty 80GB partition
+-----+---------------+-------------+

Boot Win10 DVD and install. Type license key
into activation dialog.

This web page will answer a lot of your questions
about installing side-by-side by booting the DVD
and doing a "clean install into a partition". If you
were to accept standard options and not use Custom,
it might "blow away" Windows 7 instead. You have to
tell it what you want to do, for it to work out well.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html

Now, I know this post is not in the level of detail you
expect. I think you have the skill level to do it, but
there are bound to be some rough edges where you get
in trouble. So, you'd only modify one machine at
a time, and use the second machine to dial out for
help.

As they say at the mechanics shop "you can pay me now or
you can pay me later, but you'll pay me". Microsoft is
like that mechanic, sitting in the corner snickering
as you try to set this stuff up. It's a lot of nuisance
just so you can have maintenance and continuity.

Oh, and with your fleet of AVs, you'll likely need to
uninstall Avira or Avast before doing some flavors of
installation, as they can interfere with an install.
This is most likely to happen in the "Win10 over Win7"
case. The other stuff, like some "SpywareScanner", is less
likely to blow up the install.

Many install failures will roll back on their own if
there is trouble. But, rollback takes an hour or two
of disk grinding activity, and is "plenty annoying".
I only put up with a rollback once, just to prove it
works. I usually cut them off at the knees, and restore
from backup, because that's a few minutes faster for me.

So that's the situation.

Paul

I started to re-read your instructions,.. so 'if' I want
to install Win 10 side by side Win 7 do I still need to
get the Media Creation tool? Also I did not see clearly where
I'm suppose to download for making a Win 8 DVD. Am I using that
DVD to boot into custom?

I need to know how to configure my partition if I'm going to do
this and where am I downloading Win 10 to put in the partition?
So far I've only loaded the Win8 CD to get to custom settings.

I make monthly backups so that's no problem but creating new
partitions etc. I'm still unsure of Win10 and as you pointed
out Win10 has allot of problems which is why I wish to have Win7
and Win10 side by side so that I can continue to use Win 7 for
as long as possible. I wish Microsoft would leave well enough alone.


Thanks,
Robert
Robert