1) Of course, a high percent of these problems would be a lot easier hands
on. But we don't enjoy that luxury in this setting.

2) I didn't write this. *You* wrote it ( You quoted yourself there).

"The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
thatwhile some of it may be completely on target for a given situation,
other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message
or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given"

3) Like most anyone, I cut and paste when I need to put a link or links into
a post or parts of a previous post that I think are appropriate.

4) "For someone who knows what they're doing, changing the bios to boot from
CD or running a repair install of WIndows is not a big effort.For someone
who's in new territory, just getting into the bios and figuring out how to
navigate it can be a daunting task." Most of us have been in enough teaching
and helping situations on the giving or receiving end to appreciate the
empathy here. No one I see posting wasn't a beginner at some point in their
lives or isn't a beginner now in some area of their learning curves. It may
be a big effort, but clear instructions are in the MSKB or link I give them
every single time I mention going into bios setup. Since I can't be there
on the machine, I always have the empathy to include clear instructions to
get to the bios. Instructions navigating the bios are on the web, and of
course many times the person may have the huge inconvenience of access to
only one box and needing to use the internet by borrowing one from a friend
or someone else. That's a given. I can only give the clearest set of
instructions I think will help them and I try not to camuoflage it in
information for other purposes. The inplace upgrade MSKB, Michael Stevens'
instructions and screenshots of an inplace upgrade are about as clear as it
gets to do one.

Also having experienced the boot to windows problem early on as a beginner,
I can compare some of the help in posts I do or see here and what they are
going to get when they call on the phone to MSFT Support which is not going
to be MSFT but Convergys or an OEM help line.
It's not going to mention half the possibilities a high percent of the time.

5) I can think of dozens of reasons why a computer might not get all the
way
into Windows. Not all of them are software-related. A bad stick of ram, for
instance, can do some pretty interesting things.

Anyone can think of dozens of hardware related reasons why someone can't get
to Windows. That's right. And some accounts of the problem are a lot more
explicit and specific than the one Debbie who hasn't posted since offered
and can give clues to that. There's probably no one who responds to a
"can't boot to windows problem" that doesn't appreciate every point your
trying to make. We know it can be hardware related. We know they may only
have one box to work with with them that can be dead or not able to reach
the web.

"A bad stick of ram, for instance, can do some pretty interesting things."
Thanks for the earth shaking revelation here. I had no idea a bad stick
or RAM, or a loose stick of ram, or a loose anything made of metal or cord
can do some pretty interesting things.

6) "But it was an extremely complex answer for someone with few computer
skills" I disagree. I think it was an extremely on point answer and the
person with few computer skills may have summoned a friend who could help
execute it. It beat the hell out of ignoring what was a conspicuous plea
for help in upper-case with those little punctuation marks called
explanation points about 35 times.

7) Often in these situations, someone will be working from a friend's laptop
or notebook or PDA to do the post and access the web, so using Belarc to get
info is not out of the question. Many people will remember what key they
have seen a few hundred times to use to get into the bios on the firmware
screen but will not have realized its context when they stared at it on each
boot.
For this reason, using Belarc, Everest Home, SiSoft Sandra, or msinfo 32 in
the run box will often apply to help someone get into the bios setup.
Navigating the bios is explained in any number of sites if you google with
those words and have an additional box to google with.

In a perfect world, someone might have that assistance you invoke readily
available but often they don't, can't get it, or can't afford it. That's one
reason they're here.

8) None of my answers are "stock answers." They are tailored to the
problem I see.

9) I missed besides critiquing me and the plug in the monitor suggestion
what you offered her to help. I don't think anyone who posts doesn't
realize competent hands on help is a good thing to get if they can. Often
the person will summon a lot of help on the group, people will do the best
they can in that format, and rush out after posting the dilemma with the
box, and never look at the group again.

Thanks for the novice posting tips D. Currie. They'd best be directed to a
novice posting forum.

I'll continue to try to respond to a request for help when data is at stake
and work with what I'm given. Fortunately, unlike this case the poster has
enough manners when they've put up a plea for help to answer questions that
may make it easier to help them, but about 10% of the time as in this case,
nothing is heard from them after their first frantic plea.

Best,

Chad Harris
_________________________________

"D.Currie" wrote in message
...

"Chad Harris" wrote in message
...
D. Currie--

I think your suggestion about display and the monitor to Debbie is a very
good one well worth considering. The problem is we're not sure what's
happening on that box and we may never know.


With luck, they've found someone to help, as it's a problem that would be a
lot easier hands-on.


You wrote:

"The problem with a cut-and-paste post with the complexity of yours is
that
while some of it may be completely on target for a given situation, other
parts won't apply at all, and may confuse the person getting the message
or
convince them that you didn't read their message and can't possibly have a
useful answer, thus they'll ignore the good advice given."

That's why no cookie cutter cut and pastes are ever launched from me.


I was responding to your comment that you'd have something to paste to help
the next person. If that's not what you meant, that's the way I read it. I
have no idea if you cut and paste or not, I'm just responding to what you
wrote.


I don't think it's that complex a situation.


No, but it was an extremely complex answer for someone with few computer
skills. I was responding to the complexity of the answer, not on the
complexitiy of the problem. For someone who knows what they're doing,
changing the bios to boot from CD or running a repair install of WIndows is
not a big effort. For someone who's in new territory, just getting into the
bios and figuring out how to navigate it can be a daunting task.


When you can't boot to
Windows, and you're dealiing with an NTFS File System or a Win-FS file
system in the next Windows OS, you don't have a wide panopoly of options.
There are actually relatively few simple ones.


I can think of dozens of reasons why a computer might not get all the way
into Windows. Not all of them are software-related. A bad stick of ram, for
instance, can do some pretty interesting things.


Here though, I agree we just
don't know what the dark screen means. It may well be a monitor problem
or bios triggered problem.

In addition to cutting and pasting, I delete and write the posts and
tailor them to the situation. Mosf of them are on the fly, because I
either can't get to folders with stashed references or it's just faster
for me to nail the article by searching. I tend to want to respond to an
"I can't get to Windows--I'm gonna lose my data and settings help!!!!!--(I
may not have backed up adequately)" type post and I get about 100%
feedback on them and lately that hasn't been the case that they are
convinced I didn't read their message and can't possibly give a useful
answer and will ignore. That's not what the tone of the feedback has been
on the "can't boot to Windows."


You seem to be taking this all a little too seriously and perhaps
misunderstanding what I'm saying. I was merely pointing out that when a
person says they get a black screen "after the first screen" whatever that
might be, and they can't get into Windows any which way, and your response
includes instructions to download and install Belarc so they can figure out
what their bios is, they may think that you haven't fully read their post.

There's nothing wrong with telling someone about Belarc or suggesting that
it's useful for gathering information, but in this instance, it doesn't
apply.


I figure the reason I learned to write was not to shove cookie cutter "one
size fits all" solutions at people. However, I think everyone who tries
to help on the usenet/groups/forums stashes posts with links they can
borrow so they don't have to go throught the time consuming painstaking
search trying to find the system restore, system file checker, or
recovery console link or KB, when all of us are trying to help with the
demands and pressures of making a living.

Best,

Chad Harris
_________________________________________________


There's certainly nothing wrong with having stock answers available if the
situation applies.