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Old September 15th 20, 02:23 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.microsoft.windows
Arlen Holder
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Posts: 186
Default Windows 10 BSOD indicates a hardware problem - but what hardware is the problem?

On Mon, 14 Sep 2020 10:36:48 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

That is, this isn't a 'virgin' win10pro that is bsod/ing, it is a arlen
frankenholder win10pro, nicht wahr?


Das ist richtig Herr Easter!
o You might wonder why I haven't responded all day, Mike.

I got my first BSOD in days, this morning, when I woke up.
o It took me about six hours of repetitive booting to get the OS back.

By the time I booted to a stable OS, I had a dozen handwritten pages of
what happened, where I've been up and alive for, oh, about three hours now,
but it took me six hours to be booted to a stable OS.
(I need to write the steps up separately, so that others can benefit.)

I must have booted twenty to thirty times in that process, where I
documented every step with a photo if I could (some flashed by too fast).

Here's just the short summary of my day today...

o This is the PC hardwa
https://i.postimg.cc/FR03FQMc/bsod201.jpg

o This is just some of the dozen pages of steps it took to boot today:
https://i.postimg.cc/gJzjkzQt/bsod202.jpg

o BSOD #1 (with white lines) SYSTEM SERVICE EXCEPTION
https://i.postimg.cc/BnCkxJXG/bsod203.jpg

o BSOD #2 (with white lines) SYSTEM THREAD EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED
https://i.postimg.cc/5t7rRpB7/bsod204.jpg

o BSOD #3 SYSTEM THREAD EXCEPTION NOT HANDLED
https://i.postimg.cc/RFWY5fGM/bsod205.jpg

o BSOD #4 (just the white lines)
https://i.postimg.cc/tT8MXTmF/bsod206.jpg

o BSOD #5 (with white lines) DRIVER OVERRAN STACK BUFFER
https://i.postimg.cc/FFJ6Ty7p/bsod207.jpg

o BSOD #6 KERNEL SECURITY CHECK FAILURE
https://i.postimg.cc/gkFTQxhW/bsod208.jpg

o Choosing the latest restore point:
https://i.postimg.cc/HswhgT07/bsod209.jpg

o Back to Windows 10 again, like nothing ever happened:
https://i.postimg.cc/bwqFY4LV/bsod210.jpg

Now, it's working just fine!
--
As with religion & God, both computers & Microsoft work in mysterious ways.

On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 16:34:42 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 23:29:30 -0400, n/a wrote:

I see in the photo you posted that the memory slots are color coded black
and blue with 2 of each, side-by-side.


Yes.
o Banks 1 & 2 are blue; banks 3 & 4 are black (based on POST output).

Originally, I arbitrarily labeled, in black marker on the steel housing
o 1,2,3,4 (left to right, the CPU being to the right)

But in actuality, it must be:
o 4,3,2,1 (left to right), the CPU being to the right)

So Channel A would be the first blue
slot and the first black slot reading right to left. Your DIMM's have a
label on the motherboard showing left to right numbering of 4, 3, 2, 1.


You're right!

I must admit I had NOT seen that until just now, I _looked_ all over the
motherboard to see _where_ you saw labels, and they are there in this pic!
o https://i.postimg.cc/BvVCnMQX/bsod34.jpg
Just as you said they were!

The markings are strangely unbalanced though, for some reason:
o DIMM1
o DIMM2xMM1
o DIMM3xMM2
o DIMM4xMM3,xMM4

So channel A consists of 2 slots, number 1 & 3. Channel B slots are 2 & 4.


I think I now understand that, and have relabeled the chassis accordingly.

Saying it another way - to test a pair in dual channel mode you fill
slot(s) 1 and 3 and/or slots 2 and 4 --- and not 1 and 2 and/or 3 and 4.
Hope that didn't make it confusing.


I don't really know what a "channel" is, but since both you and Paul use
that term, I looked it up after running CPU-Z on the machine with the 2
memory cards still in banks 3 and 4:
https://i.postimg.cc/WpHnH6H1/bsod35.jpg

o What is Dual-Channel Memory?
https://www.crucial.com/articles/about-memory/what-is-dual-channel-memory
"There are memory controllers built with one channel, two channels
(dual channel), four channels (quad channel), six channels,
and eight channels."

o Dual-channel memory
https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/d/dual-channel-memory.htm
"The first channel is often slots one and two, and the second channel
is three and four. When installing memory in pairs make sure to install
them into the same colored slot to take advantage of the dual-channel
platform."
But their picture shows alternating colors, whereas mine shows colors
together, so it's confusing because the data is different.

o Multi-channel memory architecture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-channel_memory_architecture
"Dual-channel architecture requires a dual-channel-capable motherboard
and two or more DDR, DDR2, DDR3, DDR4, or DDR5 memory modules.
The memory modules are installed into matching banks, each of which
belongs to a different channel)."

o What is a Motherboard Memory Controller?
https://www.brighthub.com/computing/hardware/articles/79382.aspx
"In ganged mode, there is a 128 bit wide logical DIMM that maps the
first 64 bits on the physical DDR channel A and the last 64 bit
on DDR channel B. The physical address space, in other words,
is interleaved between the two DIMMs in 64 bit steps"

But no matter, fill all the slots and go with MemTest86.


I've been dealing with Covid-19 issues at home, so things are getting
hectic, where the machine has remained alive, shockingly so, with the
memory in banks 3 & 4 only, where it's time to put the other two back in
and run that memtest86 (I still need a sacrificial memory stick for the
memtest86 ISO).

With no errors in 24 hrs with only 2 sticks of memory, that sure is a good
sign - but of what, is yet to be discovered. You could move the same two
sticks over to the empty slots and run 24 hrs and see what blows up - if
anything.


That's not a bad idea, as it shockingly has been running for two days now
(or so), where before, it wouldn't last an hour or two at most.

But to nail it down, install all memory and run MemTest86 as per
the instructions. Don't get creative and think you know the software better
than the authors - it will only waste your time. And you want to be able to
send the log to the manufacturer so they know what the failures are - for
warranty.


I think the best bang for the buck is, as you say, not to get creative and
just put memtest86 on a flash drive, boot, and test all four at once.

Do yourself a favor and vacuum the CPU heat sink - I see some dust....;-)


Thanks for that tip. What _started_ this whole mess in the first place, as
far as I can tell, is I was blowing the canned air on the dust, of which
there was originally tons and tons, and then, the machine shut down
(obviously I shouldn't have been using the canned air while it was
runnng),.

Then, for weeks (I stopped using the PC after a while 'cuz it wouldn't last
an hour), it would consistently BSOD.

But I don't know if blowing the dust was the cause or just coincidence; but
what I learned (the hard way) is I should clean the dust with a vaccuum,
and not canned air - and - I should power it down first!

Also, while you are looking at the innards, look very closely at all the
capacitors on the motherboard. The tops of each should be flat especially
those with the X indent on the top.


Good advice. I used to blow up electrolytic cans by sticking their leads in
a switched 120VAC socket in college long ago at the Physics lab benches,
where we thought it was funny when people switched on the lights that they
all blew up like firecrackers. (We were even worse in the chemistry labs,
blowing up nitrogen tri-iodide after paintint it wet on the lab benches.)
[As an aside, I'd kill my kids or grandkids if they ever did the
shenanigans we did with exploding things when we were kids.]

If you find any bad ones, you can
replace them if you know how to handle a soldering iron - otherwise, think
about a new motherboard.


I have soldering stations, solder suckers, etc., as I used to work as a
part timeer in a TV repair shop way back in the sixties when I was in
school.

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