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"Haswell" and Windows XP



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 21st 14, 09:25 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
Mike Rumble
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default "Haswell" and Windows XP

Can I get some opinions on this mother board (NF9J-Q87) from JetWay?

http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/NF9J.html

If you scroll down the page to where the drivers are, you'll see there are
drivers for Windows XP.

I called the company, but got someone who did not seem very educated about
their product.

Do you think this "Haswell" ready motherboard can run XP with a 4th
Generation processor, or are the XP drivers only there for the older
processors when used on this motherboard?
There are drivers available for everything on the board. I just can't figure
out if they are saying you can install the latest processor and still run
Windows XP.

Thanks all.



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  #2  
Old May 21st 14, 10:49 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,281
Default "Haswell" and Windows XP

Mike Rumble wrote:
Can I get some opinions on this mother board (NF9J-Q87) from JetWay?

http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/NF9J.html

If you scroll down the page to where the drivers are, you'll see there are
drivers for Windows XP.

I called the company, but got someone who did not seem very educated about
their product.

Do you think this "Haswell" ready motherboard can run XP with a 4th
Generation processor, or are the XP drivers only there for the older
processors when used on this motherboard?
There are drivers available for everything on the board. I just can't figure
out if they are saying you can install the latest processor and still run
Windows XP.

Thanks all.


Drivers are typically for the chipset.

The processor itself, uses "standard looking" logic blocks,
for which the OS will already have a default driver. For
example, something like "pci.sys" might pick up a few of
those entries.

If your Haswell has a built-in GPU, then that might require
a video driver. The responsibility there is split, with
signal buffering in the chipset (HDMI connector driven by
the PCH). But the 16 EU GPU might need a video driver, so
all the features, DVXA for video decoder or the like,
are exposed.

Intel HD 4000/5000 Graphics, DirectX 11.1

Now, that promise means nothing to WinXP, as WinXP stops
at DirectX 9c. An OS more modern than WinXP, might support
DirectX 11, with a backward compatibility module for running
DirectX 9 stuff. No similar methodology exists for programs
designed for DirectX 11 only, that you might attempt to run
on WinXP.

If you used a separate video card, and the video card supported
WinXP, then that's another way to solve that problem. Just ignore
the GPU in the processor, and don't use the HDMI connector
on the back of the motherboard. Problem solved. You could
move the video card from your existing WinXP computer, assuming it
is a PCI Express card, and be all set. If your machine had
only AGP, then that card can't be reused.

The chipset on that board is Q87. And Q87 means the chipset
has "remoting" capability for the IT department. That tells
me the motherboard is intended for corporate users. You would
want to go into the BIOS, and turn that part off if possible.
Or even get a BIOS with a "null" code module for the
processor inside the chipset.

*******

Now, all of that being said, the driver list looks nice.
You will need to look inside each driver file, to determine
if they are lying to you. For example, I could put a Windows 8
driver file in the WinXP list, to make you think there was
an actual WinXP driver. I would download all the driver
files, and inspect them (look at the INF files) and
see if the drivers are consistent with a WinXP install.

VGA XP_32_bit.zip / xp_64_bit.zip

That one is rather small, so I can take a look.

http://www.jetwaytw.com/driver/intel8_xp32.zip
23.4MB

If I look at igxp32.inf, this is what I see:

;
; Driver information
;
[Manufacturer]
%Intel% = IntelGfx, NTx86.5.1, NTx86.6.0, NTx86.6.2

[IntelGfx.NTx86.6.0]
; no install on Vista/Win7

[IntelGfx.NTx86.6.2]
; no install on Win8

[IntelGfx.NTx86.5.1] --- start of the WinXP section
%iIVBGD0% = iIVBD0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0162
%iIVBGM0% = iIVBM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0166
%iIVBGD0SRV% = iIVBD0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_016A
%iIVBGD0GT1% = iIVBD0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0152
%iIVBGM0GT1% = iIVBM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0156
%iIVBGD0SRVGT1% = iIVBD0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_015A
; HSW A0/A1 --- Various Haswell entries
%iHSWGTLD% = iHSWGD0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0C02
%iHSWGTLM% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0C06
%iHSWGTMD% = iHSWGD0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0C12
%iHSWGTMM% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0C16
%iHSWGTHD% = iHSWGD0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0C22
%iHSWGTHM% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0C26
; HSW
%iHSWGT1D% = iHSWGD0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0402
%iHSWGT1M% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0406
%iHSWGT2D% = iHSWGD0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0412
%iHSWGT2M% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0416
;HSW ULT
%iHSWGT1UT% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0A06
%iHSWGT2UT% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0A16
%iHSWGT3UT% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0A26
;HSW CRW
%iHSWGT1CW% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0D06
%iHSWGT2CW% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0D16
%iHSWGT3CW% = iHSWGM0, PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0D26

I have no way to guess how comprehensive that list
is, and whether any Haswell chips aren't covered,
such as a chip freshly minted in 2014. The length
of the list looks promising though.

At least a cursory examination, doesn't suggest
an inappropriate attempt. It looks legit. If I was
spending the money, I'd check all of them. Note
that the above INF is dated Sept.2013, to give some
idea when it was created for that specific package.

*******

The iAMT 9.0 intel_me9.zip package, would have
something to do with the "remote control" option
on the Q87. Q-series chipset have the function,
whereas other chipsets without a Q, the block is
in there but permanently turned off. To work, an
Intel-branded NIC is used. That's why the hardware
lists this in bold letters, to tell you it's a
complete AMT implementation.

1 x Intel i217LM PHY Gigabit LAN (iAMT 9.0)

That would be your AMT port. You can wake the computer
from sleep or hibernate, if you work in the IT department,
and patch the machine using that port. Even if the
computer is *crashed* and sitting in a BSOD, AMT
can regain control. A microprocessor inside the
PCH, makes it happen. Your computer has two
processors, the one you paid for (Haswell) and
the one you didn't pay for (AMT Management Engine).
A code block in the BIOS flash chip, programs the AMT.
The AMT processor is likely running, for as long as
+5VSB power is available (standby power).

You would want to read at least one "tinfoil hat"
article from the section at the end of this article...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_A...ent_Technology

This doesn't cover the Wifi era, but still gives
some idea what AMT can do. This article is a little
more straight forward, than some of the advertising
bumpf that Intel normally makes available. I presume
this was a PowerPoint slide set at a trade show.

http://pds4.egloos.com/pds/200706/04/57/ps_adts003.pdf

Paul
  #3  
Old May 22nd 14, 03:09 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
Mike Rumble
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default "Haswell" and Windows XP

Lots of good information you've posted.

Originally there seemed little hope that XP would continue on new hardware,
but it now looks like that may not be the case. With the latest security
updates being ported over from POS 2009, we XP users could be around for
another 10 years or more.

Thank you.


"Paul" wrote in message
...
Drivers are typically for the chipset.

The processor itself, uses "standard looking" logic blocks,
for which the OS will already have a default driver. For
example, something like "pci.sys" might pick up a few of
those entries.

If your Haswell has a built-in GPU, then that might require
a video driver. The responsibility there is split, with
signal buffering in the chipset (HDMI connector driven by
the PCH). But the 16 EU GPU might need a video driver, so
all the features, DVXA for video decoder or the like,
are exposed.

Intel HD 4000/5000 Graphics, DirectX 11.1

Now, all of that being said, the driver list looks nice.
You will need to look inside each driver file, to determine
if they are lying to you. For example, I could put a Windows 8
driver file in the WinXP list, to make you think there was
an actual WinXP driver. I would download all the driver
files, and inspect them (look at the INF files) and
see if the drivers are consistent with a WinXP install.

VGA XP_32_bit.zip / xp_64_bit.zip

That one is rather small, so I can take a look.

At least a cursory examination, doesn't suggest
an inappropriate attempt. It looks legit. If I was
spending the money, I'd check all of them. Note
that the above INF is dated Sept.2013, to give some
idea when it was created for that specific package.

Paul



  #4  
Old May 22nd 14, 05:13 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
Good Guy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,004
Default "Haswell" and Windows XP

On 22/05/2014 03:09, Mike Rumble wrote:
Originally there seemed little hope that XP would continue on new hardware,
but it now looks like that may not be the case. With the latest security
updates being ported over from POS 2009, we XP users could be around for
another 10 years or more.

Doing what for 10 years on XP? There won't be any new application
packages for XP so either you continue using what you you currently have
or get on the band wagon and get Windows 8.1. You have to earn a living
and for that you will need state of the art technology. The days of
using pen and paper are over.


--
Good Guy
Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk
Website: http://html-css.co.uk
Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us

  #5  
Old May 22nd 14, 05:57 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
darkrats[_12_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default "Haswell" and Windows XP

I appreciate your point of view, but there are many applications for XP that
will likely never need to be updated to remain functional. I use Office 2003
to type a letter or some other such document. Later versions add nothing to
that experience. Sometimes it seems that the only thing MS did in 2007 etc.
was to rearrange buttons and toolbars. I know users who still have Office 97
and get by just fine, and how many years ago was that released? Just saying,
some people, like myself, see no reason to abandon XP just yet. Please don't
bring up security concerns. These are addressed through firewalls, antivirus
and malware programs, and other browsers. And, like I said, update patches
will be ported over from other XP variations for years to come. After that,
XP enthusiasts will be producing their own patches. Even the XP source code
will some day be leaked or made available, and that will open up many new
possibilities for this fine operating system.


"Good Guy" wrote in message
...
On 22/05/2014 03:09, Mike Rumble wrote:
Originally there seemed little hope that XP would continue on new
hardware,
but it now looks like that may not be the case. With the latest security
updates being ported over from POS 2009, we XP users could be around for
another 10 years or more.

Doing what for 10 years on XP? There won't be any new application
packages for XP so either you continue using what you you currently have
or get on the band wagon and get Windows 8.1. You have to earn a living
and for that you will need state of the art technology. The days of using
pen and paper are over.


--
Good Guy
Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk
Website: http://html-css.co.uk
Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us



  #6  
Old May 22nd 14, 08:40 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
Good Guy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,004
Default "Haswell" and Windows XP

On 22/05/2014 17:57, darkrats wrote:
I appreciate your point of view, but there are many applications for XP that
will likely never need to be updated to remain functional. I use Office 2003
to type a letter or some other such document. Later versions add nothing to
that experience. Sometimes it seems that the only thing MS did in 2007 etc.
was to rearrange buttons and toolbars.


If you are using the basic functions of Microsoft Word then there are
better solutions than using Word 2003. For example, people buy basic
machine from dell that is "relatively" low spec but far better than what
you are currently using and use Microsoft word free of charge by
creating a Microsoft account (which you might already have if you are
using Hotmail, outlook or Live mail) and using its on-line version of
Microsoft office 2013. This on-line version is also a very basic
version but quite adequate for your needs "to type a letter or some
other such document". On-line version allows you to save document on
your machine if you so desire or even email it to your target audience.
It is not completely "cloud" as some people think. the only thing is
you get on-line storage of your document which some people like it and
some hate it because it is Microsoft!! not for any other reasons.


Anyway, you have to do what is best for you because I don't know
anything about you so my comments are very general.





--
Good Guy
Website: http://mytaxsite.co.uk
Website: http://html-css.co.uk
Email: http://mytaxsite.co.uk/contact-us




  #7  
Old May 22nd 14, 09:10 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.hardware
Good Guy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,004
Default "Haswell" and Windows XP

On 22/05/2014 20:40, Good Guy wrote:
On 22/05/2014 17:57, darkrats wrote:
I appreciate your point of view, but there are many applications for XP that
will likely never need to be updated to remain functional. I use Office 2003
to type a letter or some other such document. Later versions add nothing to
that experience. Sometimes it seems that the only thing MS did in 2007 etc.
was to rearrange buttons and toolbars.


If you are using the basic functions of Microsoft Word then there are
better solutions than using Word 2003. For example, people buy basic
machine from dell that is "relatively" low spec but far better than what
you are currently using and use Microsoft word free of charge by
creating a Microsoft account (which you might already have if you are
using Hotmail, outlook or Live mail) and using its on-line version of
Microsoft office 2013. This on-line version is also a very basic
version but quite adequate for your needs "to type a letter or some
other such document". On-line version allows you to save document on
your machine if you so desire or even email it to your target audience.
It is not completely "cloud" as some people think. the only thing is
you get on-line storage of your document which some people like it and
some hate it because it is Microsoft!! not for any other reasons.


Anyway, you have to do what is best for you because I don't know
anything about you so my comments are very general.





This basic machine is good for you:

http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-3521/pd

$250 only.

You can add some ram if you so desire but better than re-building your
Windows XP machine. They have desktops as well and you can go to their
website and see what is available.

 




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