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#121
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
"Savageduck" wrote
| He may be baiting. I don't know. But it was you | who insisted on arguing about Mac programs in | a discussion about Windows software. | | I didn't argue. He made the challenge regarding "freeware" which would | do the job, and I responded with the free application I use, which does | all that he asked of it. rec.photo.digital is where he has initiated | this thread, and to the best of my knowledge r.p.d. is not an exclusive | Windows NG. No, but the thread was about Windows freeware. You had no reason to take part at all. But you clearly get irritated by any Windows talk. What if you were discussing a Mac program and someone said, "You should buy a Windows computer. Then you can use the program I use." I don't think you'd regard that as helpful. I don't know about the history here. Maybe Stijn is the wiseguy you say he is. Nevetheless, the discussion was potentially useful to anyone on Windows who's interested in software options, regardless of his motives. In particular, I think the mistake of editing JPGs is a very common one, so it's worthwhile getting info out there about the problems with that. |
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#122
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In article , Mayayana
wrote: | He may be baiting. I don't know. But it was you | who insisted on arguing about Mac programs in | a discussion about Windows software. | | I didn't argue. He made the challenge regarding "freeware" which would | do the job, and I responded with the free application I use, which does | all that he asked of it. rec.photo.digital is where he has initiated | this thread, and to the best of my knowledge r.p.d. is not an exclusive | Windows NG. No, but the thread was about Windows freeware. You had no reason to take part at all. But you clearly get irritated by any Windows talk. What if you were discussing a Mac program and someone said, "You should buy a Windows computer. Then you can use the program I use." I don't think you'd regard that as helpful. nobody told anyone to buy a new computer. and in the event someone suggested windows software to a mac owner, they would not need to buy a new computer because a mac can run all windows software directly. I don't know about the history here. Maybe Stijn is the wiseguy you say he is. Nevetheless, the discussion was potentially useful to anyone on Windows who's interested in software options, regardless of his motives. In particular, I think the mistake of editing JPGs is a very common one, so it's worthwhile getting info out there about the problems with that. it's also overblown. most people won't notice a difference, particularly for images posted to a mailing list. |
#123
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In article , Mayayana
wrote: | "Adding canvas" would be accomplished by | painting a bitmap onto a second larger bitmap, just | because that's how Windows graphics works. | | If you do it that way it is a bit of a kludge. Bitmap is a very old | Windows way of thinking. There are far simpler and efficient ways of | doing what you have described. | You're doing it that way, too. You just don't know it. (RAW is more complicated, in ways I don't fully understand, but once you get into raster graphics it's all the same.) Now that I know what's meant by canvas I don't see any problem with it. I'm curious how I never noticed "canvas" before. But it's just a GUI convention. It's not functionality. I don't see any inconvenience with copy/paste onto a new image. That makes it easy for me to move around one or more images on a larger background and operate on various layers until I'm ready to merge them. That's a more flexible method than canvas. If I want a text area I'll usually just paint on a rectangle. But canvas seems fine for adding a regular, defined border. What you're doing with "canvas" is using a conceptual device to imagine working on a picture that's on a background plate. You then swap out for a bigger background plate when desired. That's actually an unnecessary device if you think in terms of what the image really is and let go of the irrelevant, concrete-world limitations like easels and stretched canvas over a frame. Raster graphics deals in rectangular bitmaps, which are arrays of byte values defining pixels, with the display of those pixels defined by width, height, color-depth and orientation specs included with the byte array. Thus, a 24-bit bitmap starting at upper left with a size of 200x100 will mean that to create the image the bytes are read in groups of 3 to light 200 pixels across the screen. 600 bytes for one line of pixels. Then the next line is read out. It always gets down to simple numbers at some point when you're using computers. (I don't know whether Apple uses the term bitmap, but they're doing it the same way if they're doing raster graphics.) Before it's painted to the screen it's just that byte array. When you enlarge your canvas, what goes on behind the scenes is that the system defines a second device-independent bitmap and then paints your existing bitmap onto it once you decide where in the image you want your original pasted and what color you want the background. It has nothing to do with Windows and nothing to do with any "old way of thinking". Look up raster graphics. The same is true of things like brightening, color pencil plugins, borders, etc. It's all mathematical formulae applied to an array of byte values that represent a pixel grid. So if you enlarge your canvas what actually happens is that your byte array gets enlarged and rebuilt. The software might do that directly, or more likely it will do it by defining a second bitmap and using system API to paint one to the other, then retrieve the resulting byte array. In that case the software is letting the system do the grunt work. Either way, what goes on underneath hasn't changed. Only the GUI changes. mostly correct, but entirely irrelevant. none of that helps in making better photos. That's the trouble with only using Apple tools. You end up thinking that a microwave is the way cooking happens and when someone talks about making spaghetti sauce from scratch on their stove you think they're either ignorant or lying. you were doing reasonably well up until that. |
#124
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On 2/16/2017 10:16 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Eric Stevens wrote: nonsense. it's incredibly easy to create arrows and quite a bit more. as usual, you failed and are blaming others. view the annotate menu: https://www.cisdem.com/resource/atta...te-a-pdf-mac-p review.jpg or directly from the toolbar: http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shapes-button.png http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Preview-wild-text.png http://tidbits.com/resources/2016-04/Shape-color.png it doesn't get any easier than that. All decent editing apps have a GUI for each of the critical tasks: 0. Cropping area 1. Adding canvas and text 2. Adding bounding boxes 3. Adding curved and straight arrows preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows, a very minor issue. It's not a minor issue at all if you want curved arrows. which few people do, but it can do it, so it doesn't matter. The above is typical nospam. "preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows,...." Very next reply: " but it can do it, so it doesn't matter." You contradict yourself, without expressly admitting that you did, or explaining. -- PeterN |
#125
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In article , PeterN
wrote: All decent editing apps have a GUI for each of the critical tasks: 0. Cropping area 1. Adding canvas and text 2. Adding bounding boxes 3. Adding curved and straight arrows preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows, a very minor issue. It's not a minor issue at all if you want curved arrows. which few people do, but it can do it, so it doesn't matter. The above is typical nospam. "preview does all that, with the exception of curved arrows,...." Very next reply: " but it can do it, so it doesn't matter." You contradict yourself, without expressly admitting that you did, or explaining. what's to explain? i thought it didn't do curved arrows, then i tried it and saw that it could, so i corrected what i wrote a few minutes later. curved arrows is also not a common thing to do, so it really doesn't matter for nearly everyone. just how often do you see people annotating documents with *curved* arrows anyway? not often, if ever. nevertheless, it can do curved arrows it doesn't matter. there is no issue with using it to annotate. as usual, you're arguing just to argue, and this time when there's absolutely nothing to argue about. that's just ****ed up. |
#126
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
In article , Tony Cooper wrote:
Sure. I give non-native speakers of English a free pass* Hehe *Unless they brag about how good their English is. Or, as in my case, if they point out how bad your English is -- Sandman |
#127
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
On 2/16/2017 2:48 PM, Stijn De Jong wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 13:02:48 -0500, PeterN wrote: I have never used the freeware programs for processing and cannot compare them to PS. I have changed the canvas size many times in PS, and find it trivial to extend the canvas, on any side. As in many other objectives, there are several methods to extend the canvas. For my purposes a simple resize works just fine. I don't generally work on photographs so much as screenshots, so the basic freeware combination of Irfanview for what it does best, and Paint.NET for what it does best, is what I use mostly. Since I don't use the payware stuff you use, I can't say the next sentence with certain assurances; but having used freebie editing programs for decades, I can say with reasonable confidence the following two sentences: 1. Nothing on Windows is faster (nor simpler) than Irfanview, for viewing images, setting up basic batch processing of those images, and for cropping and adding a set-sized canvas to all the photos to be batch resized, converted and renamed. Howeever, Irfanview positively sucks in the things that Paint.NET excels in. 2. Nothing on Windows is both easier for a suite of basic curved arrows than the way the arrow features of Paint.NET was designed. The feature to add captions is pretty good, as is the feature that circles things with boxes and elipses, but the real beauty of Paint.NET is how it does arrowing. The portable editor with the most promise, is Pinta: http://pinta.en.softonic.com/mac In my humble opinion, any engineers who are designing a new paint program, should first try out these two sets of features for basic screenshot editing. They use the fewest steps possible and cover a wide range of basic options. As an example of how to add text wrong, with Paint.NET you just click once and start typing. If you want to change fonts or colors or position, you can do that at any time, but it's just point and type to start. In many other programs, you have to draw a bounding box first, which is just crazy to add an unnecessary step that adds no initial value. Likewise, for arrowing, in Paint.NET you just click on the start point (which sets the direction) and then you click on the ending point. The line you drew is "alive" in that you can change the shape, curves, width, color, dottedness, arrows, endshapes, etc., at any time. That's how adding text and arrowing should work, IMHO. Any other way is too many unnecessary steps, AFAIK. Our response has nothing to do with the expression: "canvas size." My canvas size could be 12x18," with the image size 2x3." I would simply have a lot of blank canvas. That you use it only for screen shots, is irrelevant to the concept. -- PeterN |
#128
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
NoSpam, you have issues
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#129
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Why exactly does Paint.NET make bigger files than Irfanview?
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