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“Microsoft launches ARM-powered Windows 10 PCs with ‘all-day’ battery life”



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 6th 17, 09:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Lynn McGuire[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default “Microsoft launches ARM-powered Windows 10 PCs with ‘all-day’ battery life”

“Microsoft launches ARM-powered Windows 10 PCs with ‘all-day’ battery life”

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/5/1...laptops-launch

“Microsoft has previously shown Photoshop running on an ARM version of
Windows 10, and the company has developed a special emulator to run
traditional x86 apps on these new devices. These devices look and feel
like normal laptops, and will run most of the software you’d expect to
see on a laptop. HP and Asus are announcing their devices today, and
Lenovo is expected to follow in the coming weeks.”

Take that Intel !

Lynn
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  #2  
Old December 7th 17, 02:53 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,772
Default "Microsoft launches ARM-powered Windows 10 PCs with 'all-day' battery life"

"Lynn McGuire" wrote
|
|
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/5/1...laptops-launch
|
| "Microsoft has previously shown Photoshop running on an ARM version of
| Windows 10, and the company has developed a special emulator to run
| traditional x86 apps on these new devices. These devices look and feel
| like normal laptops, and will run most of the software you'd expect to
| see on a laptop. HP and Asus are announcing their devices today, and
| Lenovo is expected to follow in the coming weeks."
|
| Take that Intel !

Why do you find that encouraging? They're
putting crippled Windows on a limited tablet
so that it will have longer battery life. People
can then pay more if they want real Windows.
But why would they? What good would a fullscale
desktop OS be on a tablet? Because MS have
also cobbled together some kind of Windows
WINE so that some of the most popular desktop
software programs can run.

Sounds interesting... But wait... What kind of
nut would buy such a device to work with
Photoshop or AutoCAD? What are the "most popular"
desktop software programs they plan to support?
How could this *possibly* make any sense?

The real story here is that Microsoft are pushing
tablets that look like PCs on the surfcae... if you
don't scratch too hard. Why? It's part of their
general marketing scam to reposition themselves
as a services company. There will always be holdouts
using compters to do work, who want real software
and ergonomic design. But Microsoft want the
general public to start seeing computers as where
you go for shopping, games and socializing. They
want you to think it's normal that your "computer"
can't do anything your phone can't do. *They want
you to do things that they get a cut from.* That
means trinket apps from the Window Store and
activities that provide an advertising venue.

By cooking up a Windows version of WINE they
don't create a useful device. They only attempt to
blur the line between a desktop computer and a
tablet... as well as the line between a laptop and
a tablet. Remember, as-is this device is no more
than a big phone that can't make phone calls. For
about $600. And a vague promise that if you're
stupid enough to run desktop software on it....
that *might* sort of work... depending on what you
want to run and what you want to do with it.

Interestingly, the nature of the device is even
blurred by the reviewers. I looked around at the
HP Envy X2 reviews. One calls it a tablet. Another
calls it one of a new breed of "hyper-mobile PC".
It's obviously *not* a PC as that term is understood.
Hyper-mobile? What does that mean? That you can
take it to the international space station as well as
to work? That you can take it for a weekend camping,
even though you won't have wifi access? Who would
even need all-day mobile functionality from a tablet?
Who could possibly want to use real software on a
tablet? The few people I know with tablets seem to
use them mostly for checking email while travelling,
if at all. Most use their phone for that.




  #3  
Old December 7th 17, 03:28 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mr. Man-wai Chang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,373
Default “Microsoft launches ARM-powered Windows 10 PCs with ‘all-day’ battery life”

On 12/7/2017 4:38 AM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
“Microsoft launches ARM-powered Windows 10 PCs with ‘all-day’ battery life”

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/5/1...laptops-launch


“Microsoft has previously shown Photoshop running on an ARM version of
Windows 10, and the company has developed a special emulator to run
traditional x86 apps on these new devices. These devices look and feel
like normal laptops, and will run most of the software you’d expect to
see on a laptop. HP and Asus are announcing their devices today, and
Lenovo is expected to follow in the coming weeks.”


How much?

Take that Intel !





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  #4  
Old December 7th 17, 03:56 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,479
Default "Microsoft launches ARM-powered Windows 10 PCs with 'all-day'battery life"

Mayayana wrote:
"Lynn McGuire" wrote
|
|
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/5/1...laptops-launch
|
| "Microsoft has previously shown Photoshop running on an ARM version of
| Windows 10, and the company has developed a special emulator to run
| traditional x86 apps on these new devices. These devices look and feel
| like normal laptops, and will run most of the software you'd expect to
| see on a laptop. HP and Asus are announcing their devices today, and
| Lenovo is expected to follow in the coming weeks."
|
| Take that Intel !

Why do you find that encouraging?


There is only one innovation here, and without this,
it would just be another (dead-end) WinRT solution...

The OS has an x86-to-ARM translator, for 32 bit
applications only (even though the OS is 64 bit).

This allows legacy applications (the ones you write),
to be run on the ARM platform.

It's probably going to run at 1/10th the speed of
a regular x86-on-x86 execution situation, so it'll
be like the VMs we used to use on Mac and Sparc.
I've used both. The Sparc was the slowest one.
On some Sparc boxes, we actually installed PC-on-a-card
accelerators, just to get rid of the VM idea :-)

Intel has already placed a non-specific communication
(a kind of warning) for Microsoft to see, that it doesn't
like this development, and is likely to seek legal
recourse. Although at this point, I don't know what
that recourse would be. Is there some law that says
you can't translate an executable ? I hope not... :-)
People have been doing heterogenous translators
for some number of years now (Apple/Transitive).
It just hasn't been x86-to-some_other_processor
direction. So we'll see how much of a stink Intel
can make.

The industrial output so far, is only a couple sample
machines, for release in 2018. You can be assured,
that Intel will be frantically "squeezing the nuts"
of Asus, by threatening timely CPU or chipset delivery,
to make this product go away :-) Old habits die hard.
Any time Intel says they don't like something, they
will be frantically using all available levers behind
the scenes, to get their wish fulfilled.

Paul
  #5  
Old December 7th 17, 04:05 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Mayayana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,772
Default "Microsoft launches ARM-powered Windows 10 PCs with 'all-day' battery life"

"Paul" wrote

| The OS has an x86-to-ARM translator, for 32 bit
| applications only (even though the OS is 64 bit).
|
| This allows legacy applications (the ones you write),
| to be run on the ARM platform.
|
| It's probably going to run at 1/10th the speed of
| a regular x86-on-x86 execution situation, so it'll
| be like the VMs we used to use on Mac and Sparc.

According to what I read, MS is only claiming to
support "some of the most popular software" and
have created alternate system libraries to help. That's
why I called it Windows WINE. It's not a universal
shim like the support for 32-bit on 64-bit. So will
my own software run? Maybe. Maybe not. Of course,
there would be no reason to try, anyway. It's still
just a tablet.


  #6  
Old December 7th 17, 04:35 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,479
Default "Microsoft launches ARM-powered Windows 10 PCs with 'all-day'battery life"

Mayayana wrote:
"Paul" wrote

| The OS has an x86-to-ARM translator, for 32 bit
| applications only (even though the OS is 64 bit).
|
| This allows legacy applications (the ones you write),
| to be run on the ARM platform.
|
| It's probably going to run at 1/10th the speed of
| a regular x86-on-x86 execution situation, so it'll
| be like the VMs we used to use on Mac and Sparc.

According to what I read, MS is only claiming to
support "some of the most popular software" and
have created alternate system libraries to help. That's
why I called it Windows WINE. It's not a universal
shim like the support for 32-bit on 64-bit. So will
my own software run? Maybe. Maybe not. Of course,
there would be no reason to try, anyway. It's still
just a tablet.


It's going to support everything. The loader is going
to resolve every reference made by that EXE, like it
always does.

It'll be Apple quality.

But it's not for 64-bit, and that should tell
you something. Namely, that the legal department
at Microsoft is worried about translating
64 bit stuff. I don't think this is just some
technical snafu. It's probably slightly easier
to do the 64 bit support, than the 32 bit support.
But they did the 32 bit support first.

What we don't know, is if they'll ever choose to
do 64 bit applications too. So you could run
Adobe Creative Cloud, or the new Java JRE9 (which appears
to be 64-bit only).

Paul
  #7  
Old December 8th 17, 12:42 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Lynn McGuire[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default "Microsoft launches ARM-powered Windows 10 PCs with 'all-day'battery life"

On 12/7/2017 7:53 AM, Mayayana wrote:
"Lynn McGuire" wrote
|
|
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/5/1...laptops-launch
|
| "Microsoft has previously shown Photoshop running on an ARM version of
| Windows 10, and the company has developed a special emulator to run
| traditional x86 apps on these new devices. These devices look and feel
| like normal laptops, and will run most of the software you'd expect to
| see on a laptop. HP and Asus are announcing their devices today, and
| Lenovo is expected to follow in the coming weeks."
|
| Take that Intel !

Why do you find that encouraging? They're
putting crippled Windows on a limited tablet
so that it will have longer battery life. People
can then pay more if they want real Windows.
But why would they? What good would a fullscale
desktop OS be on a tablet? Because MS have
also cobbled together some kind of Windows
WINE so that some of the most popular desktop
software programs can run.

Sounds interesting... But wait... What kind of
nut would buy such a device to work with
Photoshop or AutoCAD? What are the "most popular"
desktop software programs they plan to support?
How could this *possibly* make any sense?

The real story here is that Microsoft are pushing
tablets that look like PCs on the surfcae... if you
don't scratch too hard. Why? It's part of their
general marketing scam to reposition themselves
as a services company. There will always be holdouts
using compters to do work, who want real software
and ergonomic design. But Microsoft want the
general public to start seeing computers as where
you go for shopping, games and socializing. They
want you to think it's normal that your "computer"
can't do anything your phone can't do. *They want
you to do things that they get a cut from.* That
means trinket apps from the Window Store and
activities that provide an advertising venue.

By cooking up a Windows version of WINE they
don't create a useful device. They only attempt to
blur the line between a desktop computer and a
tablet... as well as the line between a laptop and
a tablet. Remember, as-is this device is no more
than a big phone that can't make phone calls. For
about $600. And a vague promise that if you're
stupid enough to run desktop software on it....
that *might* sort of work... depending on what you
want to run and what you want to do with it.

Interestingly, the nature of the device is even
blurred by the reviewers. I looked around at the
HP Envy X2 reviews. One calls it a tablet. Another
calls it one of a new breed of "hyper-mobile PC".
It's obviously *not* a PC as that term is understood.
Hyper-mobile? What does that mean? That you can
take it to the international space station as well as
to work? That you can take it for a weekend camping,
even though you won't have wifi access? Who would
even need all-day mobile functionality from a tablet?
Who could possibly want to use real software on a
tablet? The few people I know with tablets seem to
use them mostly for checking email while travelling,
if at all. Most use their phone for that.


“Microsoft Explains How Windows on Snapdragon Works”

https://www.pcmag.com/news/357779/mi...apdragon-works

Very interesting usage on the Microsoft JIT compiler. I was not aware
that it could translate x86 machine code to ARM machine code.

Lynn
 




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