A Windows XP help forum. PCbanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » PCbanter forum » Microsoft Windows 7 » Windows 7 Forum
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?



 
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #241  
Old December 28th 17, 11:23 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

Paul news Dec 2017 11:01:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

Can I use é in 8.3 ? Probably not :-) They "hadn't invented
foreigners yet", when they did 8.3 :-)


This might surprise you to learn then...

8.3 will use 'extended ascii' aside from a couple. [g] And, even those,
as long as they aren't used as the first character *can* be used.
AFAIK, You can do the same with LFN based names. How do I know this?
Personal experience. I've done it. Even went so far as to do something
very sneaky and wrote a tiny program that would not only rename
folders/files to 8.3 extended ascii, but occasionally play with the
hidden/system bit settings for them as well. It did a fairly good job
of simulating a 'hard disk crash' to the untrained eye.

As people aren't used to seeing filenames that have names created with
characters that aren't visible on their keyboards. Most aren't anyway.
At one point, it even kept nosy people out of folders. Until win9x
modified the file manager and would go right in. lol. good times, I
tell you.





--
Please visit our moderators personal page:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
Now for a cheeky message from our sponsors:
URA Redneck if you use more than one can of hairspray per week.
Ads
  #242  
Old December 28th 17, 11:23 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

Wolf K Sun,
17 Dec 2017 00:23:52 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

On 2017-12-16 17:59, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 16 Dec 2017 19:49:16 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:

In message Char
Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:47:47 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:

In message Char
Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:24:34 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:

In message Paul
wrote:
Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-12-14 00:24, Your Name wrote:
On 2017-12-14 03:16:11 +0000, Wolf K said:

On 2017-12-13 19:37, Your Name wrote:
[...]
... you can't rely on the OS to do that since a JPEG
image file can
actually be opened in a text editor as the file's data,
even if it's rarely useful to do so.

That's what Open With is for.

Open With is near useless if you don't know what the file
actually is. You'd have to Open With with every app you
have until you found one that could open it properly.

If we're talking about user convenience, I agree, showing
a file's type as part of the filename is very useful. (But
IMO a three-letter extension is too limited). There are
many other useful conventions, eg, in icon design. These
are converging on a common standard.

If we're talking about choosing a program to open a file,
extenions aren't needed. It would be easy to ensure that
Open With offers only programs that can open a given file
without reference to an extension. Just standardise
metadata (eg, as a series of slots, some which must be
filled, others for dev or user options). Easy peasy.

Have a good day,


Windows is not limited to 8.3.

Might not be in Windows 10 (though I think it is)

Nope. I can't remember what happened before XP, but at least
with XP through 10 you can create a filename with 200+
characters in the extension, as long as you don't exceed the
total number of characters allowed.

Please reread what I said, that file will have an 8.3
representation in the filesystem. This was true in XP and in
Windows 7 and in Windows 8 (Hmm. now I'm not positive about
Windows 8).

Let's try again. Windows filenames are not limited to 8.3.

Not in Win 10, not in 8.x, not in 7, not in Vista, not in XP.
I'll stop there because I don't personally remember when Long
Filename (LFN) support was introduced, but it was somewhere
before that, possibly in Win 95.

You are absolutely wrong.


OK, let's try a third time. It's clear that you're responding
without reading, or at least without understanding, so I'll keep
it simple.

Windows filenames are not limited to 8.3.


There was a time when the "real" filename was 8.3, and the long
file name was metadata. Win 3.x? 9.x? MSDOS 6.x? Can't recall, but
it could cause messes. Seems like Lewis is harking back to those
times.


Windows 9x, yes. win3.x and MSDOS 6.x were not LFN aware. Win9x
changed that... Along with DOS 7 (well, you didn't really think win9x
was it's own OS did you? [g])




--
Please visit our moderators personal page:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
Now for a cheeky message from our sponsors:
What's a Fred to do?
  #243  
Old December 28th 17, 11:23 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

"Mayayana"
news alt.windows7.general, wrote:

"Lewis" wrote

| And there are many ways (countless ways) to send attachments.
| Many of them are entirely transparent to the user, so without
| digging they may have no idea how they are sent or what metadata
| is preserved.

You seem to just make things up on the spot. There
are not "many" ways to send attachments in email.


Actually, there's a few that I can think of, none of which are
'standard' in the format sense, but, they all work...

There's a format. All attachments are base64 encoded.


I agree there's a format, but, you can use another 'encoder' for your
attachment. And you stick the encoded 'file' (which is a message now
as far as your email client knows) into the body of the email. And
send it. The receiver will have to take a few additional steps
themselves to decode it back to what it really is, but, no base64
took place and officially, no attachment was sent either. Just a long
message.

If it's an image it can be inline, in HTML, or sent as
an attachment. That's it.


Nope. See above. it can be encoded into the message body without
using base64. Treated literally as a message, not an encoded file
attachment, inline or otherwise. Even using straight hex character
conversion, AZ, etc.



--
Please visit our moderators personal page:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
Now for a cheeky message from our sponsors:
Our god's the FUN god! Our god's the SUN god! Ra! Ra! Ra!
  #244  
Old December 28th 17, 11:23 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

"Mayayana"
news alt.windows7.general, wrote:

Maybe 30 years ago old guys like you and Fred Flinstone
sent uuencoded pictures.


It has not been thirty years since I was in the BBS scene. Okay, it's
been a long time, but, not thirty years ago yet! Damnit!


--
Please visit our moderators personal page:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
Now for a cheeky message from our sponsors:
The ultimate smart weapon would be too smart to blow itself up.
  #245  
Old December 28th 17, 11:23 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

"Mayayana"
news alt.windows7.general, wrote:

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote

| If you add an inline image that is HTML. If you
|
| No.
|

Then maybe that's why your recipients get an
attachments. You can't do an inline image in plain text.
The image code is HTML.


You can do an inline image or any other type of 'binary' in plaintext
without using html. What do you think uuencode/mime/base64 and others
like those were originally for? They were originally developed for you
to send binary files along non binary friendly paths that wouldn't be
destroyed once they reached their destination.



--
Please visit our moderators personal page:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
Now for a cheeky message from our sponsors:
All this thinking is giving me a headache...
  #246  
Old December 28th 17, 11:23 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

Wolf K Tue,
19 Dec 2017 01:59:29 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

I repeat: The function of metadata, even in the limited sense in
which you guys insist on employing the term, is to indicate what
to do with the data (file) it's linked to (in whatever way it
happens to be linked, and whatever that data happens to be).


I partially disagree with you here. Metadata inside a jpeg for example
can also contain (and often does) details about the hardware which is
responsible for creating the file. In some cases, it even contains
long/lat coordinates to the location when the file was created.

Neither of which directly tells an image viewing app how to treat the
contents. Unless said app is going to try and show you where the place
is on a map.



--
Please visit our moderators personal page:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
Now for a cheeky message from our sponsors:
Oops. My brain just hit a bad sector.
  #247  
Old December 28th 17, 11:23 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

Wolf K
Tue, 19 Dec 2017 02:32:24 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

I didn't insist they're related. I'm just using "metadata" as it's
always been used: It's a chunk of data that indicates how some
other chunk of data should be handled.


Except that it hasn't always been used that way. Using jpegs as an
example, what difference to the average viewing program does it make if
it knows I shot the pic on a nikon vs a canon? Is it going to treat the
contents differently because different manufacturers were involved?
Granted, some can and will, but that's due to additional metadata
present in the jpeg itself and/or additional exif data.

Another example. id3tags on mp3s. They provide YOU information and some
of it can/will be used by your player/archiving program, but none of it
affects actual playback as in, the way it's going to sound on your
player. Yet, it's certainly meta data.

I think the concept has grown away from the techs who invented it.


I'm inclined to agree with you on this to a point.


--
Please visit our moderators personal page:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
Now for a cheeky message from our sponsors:
Who is Art, and why does life imitate him?
  #248  
Old December 29th 17, 04:44 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
Alan Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

On 2017-12-25 7:23 PM, Wolf K wrote:
On 2017-12-25 15:31, Lewis wrote:
[...]
A pathname is not needed to specify a file is not the same thing *at
all* as "a filename is enough to specify a file".


Since you do not provide your definitionof "pathnanme", I must work from
context.

You assert (1) a pathname is not required; and (2) that a filename alone
is enough to specify a file. The only meaning of "pathname" that makes
both those statements true is "a list of one or more folders, the last
of which contains the file." AFAIK, that is the meaning most users of it
intend.


Where did he assert (2). Quote and reference, please.


If that meaning is not what you have in mind, the two statement don't
make sense together, since (2) is used* in relation to (1), hence
"pathname" is part of the context required to make sense of (2).

I speculate that you have two completely different, mutually independent
thingamabobs in mind. Care to tell us what they are? You can use
"industry standard" terminology if you like, but only if you first
describe those entities, so we know which term applies to which.


  #249  
Old December 29th 17, 04:46 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
Alan Baker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 103
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

On 2017-12-25 11:12 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:09:34 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Char Jackson
wrote:

A pathname is not needed to specify a file is not the same thing *at
all* as "a filename is enough to specify a file".

Are you seriously trying to sell that?

Put down the shovel. The hole you're in is deeper than you think.


he's correct.


nonsense.


No. He's correct.
  #250  
Old December 29th 17, 03:10 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Lewis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 328
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In message [email protected] 569oeX.T2d Diesel wrote:
Paul news Dec 2017 11:01:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:


Can I use é in 8.3 ? Probably not :-) They "hadn't invented
foreigners yet", when they did 8.3 :-)


This might surprise you to learn then...


8.3 will use 'extended ascii' aside from a couple. [g] And, even those,
as long as they aren't used as the first character *can* be used.
AFAIK, You can do the same with LFN based names. How do I know this?
Personal experience. I've done it. Even went so far as to do something
very sneaky and wrote a tiny program that would not only rename
folders/files to 8.3 extended ascii, but occasionally play with the
hidden/system bit settings for them as well. It did a fairly good job
of simulating a 'hard disk crash' to the untrained eye.


However, many many characters will break in SMB, so ig you name a file

"Hello*😅.txt"

it might work fine locally, and it might blow up your
network if you try to share it.

I have some files with French names that are inaccessible via SMB and
cannot be deleted via the network because of the è and/or é characters
in the filename.

--
I WILL NOT HIDE BEHIND THE FIFTH AMENDMENT Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F18
  #251  
Old January 2nd 18, 03:02 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

Lewis
Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:10:59
GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

In message
[email protected] 569oeX.T2d
Diesel wrote:
Paul news 17 Dec 2017 11:01:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:


Can I use é in 8.3 ? Probably not :-) They "hadn't invented
foreigners yet", when they did 8.3 :-)


This might surprise you to learn then...


8.3 will use 'extended ascii' aside from a couple. [g] And, even
those, as long as they aren't used as the first character *can*
be used. AFAIK, You can do the same with LFN based names. How do
I know this? Personal experience. I've done it. Even went so far
as to do something very sneaky and wrote a tiny program that
would not only rename folders/files to 8.3 extended ascii, but
occasionally play with the hidden/system bit settings for them as
well. It did a fairly good job of simulating a 'hard disk crash'
to the untrained eye.


However, many many characters will break in SMB, so ig you name a
file


SMB wasn't being discussed. Allowed characters in a filename were.
From the OS perspective, the majority of the extended ascii character
set is allowed and has been for a long long time.

"Hello*😅.txt"

it might work fine locally, and it might blow up your
network if you try to share it.


Blow my network up? Assuming I can share a folder with an extended
ascii name in the first place, worst case scenario I can't share it,
and/or it'll timeout when I try to access it from a non local machine
if it does lemme share it. But, it's not going to blow anything up if
it fails. Just cause a delay in access followed up by an error
message. That's Windows and Linux for you. YMMV with Mac.

Windows 3x browser file manager played stupid with the extended ascii
names, but windows9x and later just go right into the folder/open the
files when possible. In fairness, I've also seen this trick on non PC
machines when I was a kid as a primitive form of copy protection.
That's actually where I 'stole' the idea from, and when I tested it
on my first PC and found it worked, I was sold. for awhile. Like I
said though, windows9x ruined the fun. I used to use the hidden space
in the folder name 'extension' to keep people out of 'private'
folders, and it worked for years until windows9x came along. heh.

I have some files with French names that are inaccessible via SMB
and cannot be deleted via the network because of the è and/or é
characters in the filename.


Which has nothing to do with the original subject...*shrug*




--
Please visit our moderators personal page:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
Now for a cheeky message from our sponsors:
Help stamp out mental illness, or I'll kill you!
  #252  
Old January 2nd 18, 05:23 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Lewis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 328
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In message 66N Diesel wrote:
Lewis
Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:10:59
GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:


In message
[email protected] 569oeX.T2d
Diesel wrote:
Paul news 17 Dec 2017 11:01:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:


Can I use é in 8.3 ? Probably not :-) They "hadn't invented
foreigners yet", when they did 8.3 :-)


This might surprise you to learn then...


8.3 will use 'extended ascii' aside from a couple. [g] And, even
those, as long as they aren't used as the first character *can*
be used. AFAIK, You can do the same with LFN based names. How do
I know this? Personal experience. I've done it. Even went so far
as to do something very sneaky and wrote a tiny program that
would not only rename folders/files to 8.3 extended ascii, but
occasionally play with the hidden/system bit settings for them as
well. It did a fairly good job of simulating a 'hard disk crash'
to the untrained eye.


However, many many characters will break in SMB, so ig you name a
file


SMB wasn't being discussed. Allowed characters in a filename were.
From the OS perspective, the majority of the extended ascii character
set is allowed and has been for a long long time.


Ignoring SMB issues when talking about Windows filenames is myopic in
the extreme.

The use with Windows files names it that it forbids MANY common
characters. while every other OS seem to be fine forbidding a single
character.

Blow my network up? Assuming I can share a folder with an extended
ascii name in the first place, worst case scenario I can't share it,
and/or it'll timeout when I try to access it from a non local machine
if it does lemme share it. But, it's not going to blow anything up if
it fails. Just cause a delay in access followed up by an error
message. That's Windows and Linux for you. YMMV with Mac.


Macs don't have issues with filenames, networked or not.

--
Well, we know where we're goin'
But we don't know where we've been
And we know what we're knowin'
But we can't say what we've seen
  #253  
Old January 3rd 18, 03:37 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Diesel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 711
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

Lewis
Tue, 02 Jan 2018 16:23:51
GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

In message 66N
Diesel wrote:
Lewis
Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:10:59
GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:


In message
[email protected] 569oeX.T2d
Diesel wrote:
Paul news Sun, 17 Dec 2017 11:01:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

Can I use é in 8.3 ? Probably not :-) They "hadn't invented
foreigners yet", when they did 8.3 :-)

This might surprise you to learn then...

8.3 will use 'extended ascii' aside from a couple. [g] And,
even those, as long as they aren't used as the first character
*can* be used. AFAIK, You can do the same with LFN based names.
How do I know this? Personal experience. I've done it. Even
went so far as to do something very sneaky and wrote a tiny
program that would not only rename folders/files to 8.3
extended ascii, but occasionally play with the hidden/system
bit settings for them as well. It did a fairly good job of
simulating a 'hard disk crash' to the untrained eye.

However, many many characters will break in SMB, so ig you name
a file


SMB wasn't being discussed. Allowed characters in a filename
were. From the OS perspective, the majority of the extended ascii
character set is allowed and has been for a long long time.


Ignoring SMB issues when talking about Windows filenames is myopic
in the extreme.


As far as i'm concerned, SMB is just an attempt to side track the
original discussion. And I see no point in doing that. I made no
claims on suitability for sharing across a network using smb protocol
in the first place. I was simply discussing allowed/not allowed
characters in filenames from the OS perspective itself. And besides,
SMB isn't the only sharing protocol supported or in existance.

The use with Windows files names it that it forbids MANY common
characters. while every other OS seem to be fine forbidding a
single character.


Some parts of the Windows OS as a whole do, yes. The OS itself for
the most part, does not. It's mainly an issue with API (formally
interrupts, but that was a long time ago) parsing and file browsing
from a gui perspective which is where you can run into trouble. I
can't state at this point with certainty that Linux based distro's
don't also have more than one character that you can't use for a
filename, but I suspect they do. I can think of atleast one ascii
character that most OSes, I suspect mac included would have a problem
with. The ascii code that represents our enter key; which I think is
still called a return key on macs? Another one, off the top of my
head would be the ascii character code for null as the first letter,
as Windows/DOS systems (Possibly linux/unix as well; I haven't
checked to see exactly how they 'mark' files as deleted) treat that
character as the indicator for file being deleted and previously
allocated space tied to said file now being available.

I'm assuming you know perfectly well what happens when you select a
file for deletion via normal means, so I won't bore you with the
underlying details. If you don't know, I'll take the time and explain
it in further detail.

Blow my network up? Assuming I can share a folder with an
extended ascii name in the first place, worst case scenario I
can't share it, and/or it'll timeout when I try to access it from
a non local machine if it does lemme share it. But, it's not
going to blow anything up if it fails. Just cause a delay in
access followed up by an error message. That's Windows and Linux
for you. YMMV with Mac.


Macs don't have issues with filenames, networked or not.


I don't consider some characters as being reserved so that you
cannot/shouldn't/aren't supposed to use them as part of a filename to
be an issue. For me, it would be like complaining that I couldn't
send any character I wanted to my old printers of yesteryear because
the printer firmware interpreted some of them as control characters
intended for them to change functionality, not print on paper for me.
With that being said, there were other ways to print the control
characters intended for them, but additional steps, a little more
code was required to do it.

That didn't bother me either, as, I understood that some of the
characters the printer normally refused to print were because of the
way in which the technology was originally developed. One character
was to tell the printer the line was finished, advance the paper and
move the print head back to starting position for the next line. For
example.

I treat the filename character limitations you seem to have a problem
with the same way. I don't often find myself needing to use slashes
to represent a date for example. periods work fine for that purpose.
As in 6.18.2027 or something. Personally, I find visually reading it
to be more appealing to my eyes than 06/18/2027 is. YMMV



--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit he
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
================================================== =
None of your 87 cats lower the toilet seat either.
  #254  
Old January 3rd 18, 08:01 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Smokey Joe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

On Wed, 3 Jan 2018 02:37:41 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

Lewis
Tue, 02 Jan 2018 16:23:51
GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

In message 66N
Diesel wrote:
Lewis
Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:10:59
GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:


In message
[email protected] 569oeX.T2d
Diesel wrote:
Paul news Sun, 17 Dec 2017 11:01:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

Can I use é in 8.3 ? Probably not :-) They "hadn't invented
foreigners yet", when they did 8.3 :-)

This might surprise you to learn then...

8.3 will use 'extended ascii' aside from a couple. [g] And,
even those, as long as they aren't used as the first character
*can* be used. AFAIK, You can do the same with LFN based names.
How do I know this? Personal experience. I've done it. Even
went so far as to do something very sneaky and wrote a tiny
program that would not only rename folders/files to 8.3
extended ascii, but occasionally play with the hidden/system
bit settings for them as well. It did a fairly good job of
simulating a 'hard disk crash' to the untrained eye.

However, many many characters will break in SMB, so ig you name
a file


SMB wasn't being discussed. Allowed characters in a filename
were. From the OS perspective, the majority of the extended ascii
character set is allowed and has been for a long long time.


Ignoring SMB issues when talking about Windows filenames is myopic
in the extreme.


As far as i'm concerned, SMB is just an attempt to side track the
original discussion. And I see no point in doing that. I made no
claims on suitability for sharing across a network using smb protocol
in the first place. I was simply discussing allowed/not allowed
characters in filenames from the OS perspective itself. And besides,
SMB isn't the only sharing protocol supported or in existance.


You have to understand something. If *you* had introduced SMB to the
discussion, Lewis would have accused you of moving the goalposts, but
since it was he who widened the scope, your objections are "myopic
in the extreme". Pretty amazing, but it's what he does. We see it here
in the mac groups on a regular basis.

  #255  
Old January 3rd 18, 03:22 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
Lewis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 328
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In message 66N Diesel wrote:
Lewis
Tue, 02 Jan 2018 16:23:51
GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:


In message 66N
Diesel wrote:
Lewis
Fri, 29 Dec 2017 14:10:59
GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:


In message
[email protected] 569oeX.T2d
Diesel wrote:
Paul news Sun, 17 Dec 2017 11:01:28 GMT in alt.windows7.general, wrote:

Can I use é in 8.3 ? Probably not :-) They "hadn't invented
foreigners yet", when they did 8.3 :-)

This might surprise you to learn then...

8.3 will use 'extended ascii' aside from a couple. [g] And,
even those, as long as they aren't used as the first character
*can* be used. AFAIK, You can do the same with LFN based names.
How do I know this? Personal experience. I've done it. Even
went so far as to do something very sneaky and wrote a tiny
program that would not only rename folders/files to 8.3
extended ascii, but occasionally play with the hidden/system
bit settings for them as well. It did a fairly good job of
simulating a 'hard disk crash' to the untrained eye.

However, many many characters will break in SMB, so ig you name
a file


SMB wasn't being discussed. Allowed characters in a filename
were. From the OS perspective, the majority of the extended ascii
character set is allowed and has been for a long long time.


Ignoring SMB issues when talking about Windows filenames is myopic
in the extreme.


As far as i'm concerned, SMB is just an attempt to side track the
original discussion.


OK, I thought it was a natural evolution from saying "windows supports
weird characters" because windows networking (which a whole lot of
people use, often without knowing it) does not support it. Think it more
as a warning for a passing reader.

The use with Windows files names it that it forbids MANY common
characters. while every other OS seem to be fine forbidding a
single character.


Some parts of the Windows OS as a whole do, yes. The OS itself for
the most part, does not.


Not sure what distinction you are making there. Windows will not allow
you to name a file with any of " / \ ? * | (yes, quote is a
forbidden character). You also cannot use '..' in any part of a
filename. You also cannot use NULL or any ASCII character with a value
under 32 (decimal).

That is according to Microsoft, which also has a list of universally
reserved filnames, and warnings to never end a filename or directory
name with a space for ... reasons.

The list of forbidden characters on Unix is "/" and the list of
forbidden characters on macOS is ":", and neither OS will complain about
a file ending in a . and, as far as I know, neither has reserved
filenames that you cannot use.

It's mainly an issue with API (formally
interrupts, but that was a long time ago) parsing and file browsing
from a gui perspective which is where you can run into trouble. I
can't state at this point with certainty that Linux based distro's
don't also have more than one character that you can't use for a
filename, but I suspect they do. I can think of atleast one ascii
character that most OSes, I suspect mac included would have a problem
with. The ascii code that represents our enter key; which I think is
still called a return key on macs? Another one, off the top of my
head would be the ascii character code for null as the first letter,


It's possible that null in the first position might be an issue, but it
is not an issue within the filename. I have certainly had filenames with
ASCII(13) (return) in them in the past, and I currently have a file on
my desktop with a ASCII(9) (tab) in the filename.

I don't consider some characters as being reserved so that you
cannot/shouldn't/aren't supposed to use them as part of a filename to
be an issue.


It is an issue when it's a list of characters you have to remember, all
of which would reasonably be useful in a filename/folder name.

Invoices 2010
Invoices 01/2012
Photos 12:00-13:00
"Weird" Al Yankovic/
*** Important Docs
||| Temporary Trash
Final? Paper


If ONE of those has to be worked around because of the OS, that's one
thing, but when all of them are forbidden, it is an issue.

I treat the filename character limitations you seem to have a problem
with the same way. I don't often find myself needing to use slashes
to represent a date for example. periods work fine for that purpose.


You've trained yourself to work around the limitations of Windows naming
convention, that doens't make those limitations a good thing, it just
means you've learned them.

As in 6.18.2027 or something. Personally, I find visually reading it
to be more appealing to my eyes than 06/18/2027 is. YMMV


If / was the only forbidden character, that would be quite different,
but you have to have ways to work around quite a lot of characters.

--
'They're the cream!' Rincewind sighed. 'Cohen, they're the cheese.'
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off






All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 PCbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.