How many of you are ready to run out and upgrade to Windows 8?

In message , Ken Blake
writes:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 13:08:04 +0100, Gordonbp
wrote:

On 05/10/12 21:46, choro wrote:

Win 3.11 was the network capable version, wasn't it?--
choro
*****

Windows for Workgroups IIRC.....


That's not correct. See my earlier messages in this thread. There was
a Windows for Workgroups 3.11 *and* a Windows 3.11.


IIRR there was a minor bug in the OS, which showed up embarrassingly if
you used Calculator to work out 3.11-3.1 (calc must have called the
relevant faulty routines). Whether this was the Workgroup version, or
3.11 or 3.1, I can't remember.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Do ministers do more than lay people?

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 07:00:55 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 09:40:51 +0200, Steve Hayes
wrote:


But when I needed to replace my desktop computer, I bought a new one without
an operating system and restored my Acronis backups. It took me a few hours to
update drivers, etc, but not the months (if not years) that a fresh instal
would require.


If that's the case, you've been extremely lucky. A backup from one
computer will normally not run on a different one, and a clean
installation is required.

He probably used the Acronis Plus Pack, an add-on for True Image. One
of its features is that it allows you to restore an image to
dissimilar hardware, which can obviously be very handy at times.

--

Char Jackson

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 13:14:07 +0100, Gordonbp
wrote:

On 06/10/12 08:40, Steve Hayes wrote:
but not the months (if not years) that a fresh instal
would require.

Eh? You're not SERIOUS are you? The last time (about a month ago) I did
a fresh install of Window 7 it took all of about four hours - INCLUDING
all updates and re-instatement of all data and MS Office 2010.
If it really does take you that long then you're doing something really
wrong...

Four hours sounds about right. If there are a lot of apps and/or a lot
of customizations, six hours isn't too unreasonable.

_If_ you're so organised that, whenever you tweak a setting in
_anything_, you make a note of it. Many (I suspect most) of us do not,
so getting _all_ our software back how we like it takes ages - because
we don't _know_ how to get it how we like it; in some cases, it can be
ages before we even know something _isn't_ how we want it. (But if you
now say "that didn't matter then", you're wrong.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Do ministers do more than lay people?

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 09:40:51 +0200, Steve Hayes
wrote:

But when I needed to replace my desktop computer, I bought a new one without
an operating system and restored my Acronis backups. It took me a few hours to
update drivers, etc, but not the months (if not years) that a fresh instal
would require.

As others have said, if a fresh install (OS, apps, tweaks) takes more
than about 4-6 hours, you're probably jumping into it unprepared.

You're not being fair: such "preparation time" must be added.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Do ministers do more than lay people?

On 06/10/2012 11:26, Bob Henson wrote:


On 06/10/2012 10:07 AM, choro wrote:

No idea what the prices are in the UK these days, but when I built my
desktop just over a year ago I had to pay £110 (US$180.00) for W7Pro.
And that was the OEM version. Heaven knows how much the full retail
version would have been. It just doesn't make sense when one can buy a
brand new laptop with W7 preinstalled for £250.--
choro
*****
PS. I know life's not fair but this is ridiculous!

This place Has Windows 7 for $60 (£37.19 UK)

https://completesoftwarecenter.com/windows7.php

It says Home Premium, but when I came to download, it was Windows 7 Pro
- as shown in the little gold disk on the page. It came without SP1, and
needed to download more updates (several years worth) than you can shake
a stick at - but it was cheap, and legal.

Thanks a million. At these prices I can start thinking seriously about
updating my Vista laptop to Windows 7. Never liked that damned Vista.

I used to run Linux on the laptop, but I was in hospital for a while
early in the year, and my son brought me a dongle so I could stay in
touch - of course, the software would only run under Windows! I did get
it to work under Linux later, but it took forever to set up. Anyway, to
get it working in hospital, we put the preview version of Windows 8 on
the laptop as a dual boot - the only one we could get a) free and b)
quickly. It was so bad that I wanted to get rid a.s.a.p., and it ran out
of date next year anyway - which is why I did a bit of searching round,
and found this company. There may be others even cheaper, but I'd be a
tad suspicious if they were. I did get fed up waiting (it's an old, slow
laptop) for all the updates to download, but at that price it would be
churlish to complain too much :-) At my age, Windows 7 will probably be
my last version, unless Windows 8 is such a disaster that Microsoft have
to bring out a Windows 9 quickly - even then, I'm unlikely to change,
Windows 7 is by far the best version yet.

To be honest, it took me around 6 months after I had built my W7 desktop
to switch over from WXP to W7. I wasn't too happy about the new way of
organizing things on W7 which is why it took me so long. Anyway, to cut
a long story short, in the end my XP machine got so slow that I decided
to give W7 a try. Another reason was of course when the PSU on my old XP
desktop gave up the ghost. In the meantime I decided to use my new W7
machine which was connected through my KVM and by the time I had managed
to buy and install a new PSU on my old machine, I had got used to the
ways of W7. Now of course I'll never go back to Windows XP except when I
am using my WXP laptop which I still *have* to if I need to do anything
with my old scanner. Can't get a W7 compatible driver for my old scanner
and I am not going to buy another scanner now since I use it very, very
rarely.

My Vista laptop in the meantime is luxuriating in indolence and
torpidity. It was an impulse buy and turned out to be a white elephant
as far as I am concerned. But if I can change the OS to W7 for £37 it
might be worth the effort.

What has been your experience with Linux OSs and the associated
software, BTW? --
choro
*****

On 06/10/2012 4:29 PM, choro wrote:
On 06/10/2012 11:26, Bob Henson wrote:


On 06/10/2012 10:07 AM, choro wrote:

No idea what the prices are in the UK these days, but when I built my
desktop just over a year ago I had to pay £110 (US$180.00) for W7Pro.
And that was the OEM version. Heaven knows how much the full retail
version would have been. It just doesn't make sense when one can buy a
brand new laptop with W7 preinstalled for £250.--
choro
*****
PS. I know life's not fair but this is ridiculous!

This place Has Windows 7 for $60 (£37.19 UK)

https://completesoftwarecenter.com/windows7.php

It says Home Premium, but when I came to download, it was Windows 7 Pro
- as shown in the little gold disk on the page. It came without SP1, and
needed to download more updates (several years worth) than you can shake
a stick at - but it was cheap, and legal.

Thanks a million. At these prices I can start thinking seriously about
updating my Vista laptop to Windows 7. Never liked that damned Vista.

I used to run Linux on the laptop, but I was in hospital for a while
early in the year, and my son brought me a dongle so I could stay in
touch - of course, the software would only run under Windows! I did get
it to work under Linux later, but it took forever to set up. Anyway, to
get it working in hospital, we put the preview version of Windows 8 on
the laptop as a dual boot - the only one we could get a) free and b)
quickly. It was so bad that I wanted to get rid a.s.a.p., and it ran out
of date next year anyway - which is why I did a bit of searching round,
and found this company. There may be others even cheaper, but I'd be a
tad suspicious if they were. I did get fed up waiting (it's an old, slow
laptop) for all the updates to download, but at that price it would be
churlish to complain too much :-) At my age, Windows 7 will probably be
my last version, unless Windows 8 is such a disaster that Microsoft have
to bring out a Windows 9 quickly - even then, I'm unlikely to change,
Windows 7 is by far the best version yet.

To be honest, it took me around 6 months after I had built my W7 desktop
to switch over from WXP to W7. I wasn't too happy about the new way of
organizing things on W7 which is why it took me so long. Anyway, to cut
a long story short, in the end my XP machine got so slow that I decided
to give W7 a try. Another reason was of course when the PSU on my old XP
desktop gave up the ghost. In the meantime I decided to use my new W7
machine which was connected through my KVM and by the time I had managed
to buy and install a new PSU on my old machine, I had got used to the
ways of W7. Now of course I'll never go back to Windows XP except when I
am using my WXP laptop which I still *have* to if I need to do anything
with my old scanner. Can't get a W7 compatible driver for my old scanner
and I am not going to buy another scanner now since I use it very, very
rarely.

My Vista laptop in the meantime is luxuriating in indolence and
torpidity. It was an impulse buy and turned out to be a white elephant
as far as I am concerned. But if I can change the OS to W7 for £37 it
might be worth the effort.

What has been your experience with Linux OSs and the associated
software, BTW?

I used several distros on the old laptop, but mainly Linux Mint 9
through to 13, Debian Stable and Unbuntu. They all ran just fine - but
Mint 9 ran much, much faster than Windows (any versions) on the old
laptop. By the time it reached v.13 it was still faster than Windows,
but much slower than v.9. The Ubuntu distros were the same - they slowed
down dramatically as more and more trendy, modern, unnecessary features
were added to make them appeal to the youngsters. Debian stayed much the
same, but will go the same way. Incidentally, my old scanner wouldn't
work with Windows 7 either - but ran fine under Linux. If all you want
to do is office work, web browsing and e-mail, I'd recommend Linux Mint.
If you want to play modern games, or do video editing - forget it. It's
a pig to find drivers for anything made originally for Windows - like my
phone dongle, or external WiFi aerials. It's like the Mac - nothing is
compatible, and the software doesn't exist for it. So summarising,
excellent O/S within it's limits - but very limited. I've more or less
given it up now.


--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK


Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

On 06/10/2012 16:07, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 09:40:51 +0200, Steve Hayes
wrote:

But when I needed to replace my desktop computer, I bought a new one without
an operating system and restored my Acronis backups. It took me a few hours to
update drivers, etc, but not the months (if not years) that a fresh instal
would require.

As others have said, if a fresh install (OS, apps, tweaks) takes more
than about 4-6 hours, you're probably jumping into it unprepared.
Likewise, if installing or updating drivers takes a few hours by
itself, something is definitely out of whack.

Having said that, it's also true that some people just work slower
than others. But still, a MONTH? Clearly an exaggeration.

NO! Not really. It takes time to remember and install all the little
programs and freeware that one had on the old setup. The whole process
can take a few weeks but of course this does NOT mean that one is tied
down to doing this and nothing else. You do it in dribs and drabs. But
the beauty of a fresh installation is that you can apply the experience
you've gained with your old setup to setting up the new computer to just
how you like it.

And if you enjoy doing this sort of thing then it is no chore. If you
don't, just sit back and let all the software install normally and
forget about configuring things to just how you like them. I for example
like to sort my user files not on C but on D drive and when I click My
Documents I like to see just folders and no files there. Everything is
classified and in the relevant sub-folder. Neat and systematic.

The thing to do when installing a new system from scratch is to think
and plan everything beforehand and then get on with it. --
choro
*****

On 06/10/2012 16:08, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 10:11:16 +0100, choro wrote:

On 06/10/2012 08:45, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Fri, 5 Oct 2012 22:29:58 -0400, "...winston" wrote:

South Africa
Windows 7 Full Versions
http://www.kalahari.com/electronics/software/5717.aspx

I can get a full version anywhere. It's the upgrade from Vista that is hard to
find.

Microsoft Store
Windows 7 Full and Upgrade
35 languages
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/...oryID.44066700

Tried accessing web page but got this...

"We're sorry. The site you are attempting to access is restricted in
your region."

Sh*t!

Use a proxy based in the country of your choice.

Good advice! Thnx.--
choro
*****

On 06/10/2012 13:26, ...winston wrote:
Choose the version, click 'Shop this edition'
- the prices and option for full or upgrade (if available in your area)
should show up.

Note: You'll have to test it (since I'm in the US) and find out if
geographical limits are involved.
Also not sure if payment methods are restricted to credit cards for a
given geographical area.

This old dog is learning new tricks every day. What would I do without
you lot out there?--
choro
*****

Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 13:14:07 +0100, Gordonbp
wrote:

On 06/10/12 08:40, Steve Hayes wrote:
but not the months (if not years) that a fresh instal would
require.
Eh? You're not SERIOUS are you? The last time (about a month ago) I
did a fresh install of Window 7 it took all of about four hours -
INCLUDING all updates and re-instatement of all data and MS Office
2010. If it really does take you that long then you're doing
something really wrong...


Well, "months (if not years)" has to be an overstatement as far as
I'm concerned, but for me, it's much longer than four hours. I've
done clean reinstallation of Windows only once, and it took me two
days. I had a lot more software to install than just Microsoft
Office, and I had many programs with custom configurations to set,
etc.

Okay, maybe that is an overstatement for a reinstall. I've never done a
reinstall. I'm just going by my original transition from Windows 2000 to
Windows 7.
--
Crash

Today is the first day of the rest of your life,
and there's not a damned thing you can do about it.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
[]
So many PC users are going to give Win8 the brush-off that MS will

Probably more than is fair; there seem to be an awful lot of people out
there who have decided 8 is bad without really giving it a chance: they
took one look at the default interface, cried "I don't like 'phones",
and never gave it a second look. (Rather like someone I know on UMRA who
will never touch a certain variety of apple [fruit, not computer!]
because of a single example he tried on a railway station in the 1960s
or '80s.)

[I have no axe to grind here - I'm happy with XP, and only moved to it
from '98lite because of the latter's poor USB support - though XP _is_
more stable, I admit. If you're wondering why I take this 7 'group, it
was initially because I was setting up a new machine for a friend a year
or two ago, and I've stayed because I like the people here.]

probably have to keep supporting Win7 for decades.

They have no obligation to beyond what they've stated (and possibly not
even that).

"XP rules ok" had its day, but Win7 users will start the revolution at
the suggestion of an end to support.

With about as much success (-:.

One slight problem looms for me. What about those buying new OEM PCs?
They'll have Win8 on them. And so many new PCs are sold every day in
the western world. Will those people learn to appreciate Win8? Or will

It isn't that they'll "learn to appreciate it", it's that they won't
know anything else, until they have to work with dinosaurs like us who
are using the older OSs; their reaction will be "what a strange way to
do things". You like the OS you first use a lot.

they strip them down with things like Classic Shell?

Ed

If they're older users familiar with older OSs, yes - or some of them
will; some will learn to use (if not love) 8, and whatever comes next.
But new users who haven't really used PCs much before (especially if
they _have_ used 'phones or whatever 8 is supposed to resemble) will
just learn it the way we did '9x/XP/7.

You'd be more convincing if you could list some advantages of moving
from 7 to 8 (other than, that is, it's MS' latest).

I can easily supply a list of DISadvantages.

Ed

In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Ed Cryer
writes:
[]
So many PC users are going to give Win8 the brush-off that MS will

Probably more than is fair; there seem to be an awful lot of people out
there who have decided 8 is bad without really giving it a chance: they
took one look at the default interface, cried "I don't like 'phones",
and never gave it a second look. (Rather like someone I know on UMRA who
will never touch a certain variety of apple [fruit, not computer!]
because of a single example he tried on a railway station in the 1960s
or '80s.)

[I have no axe to grind here - I'm happy with XP, and only moved to it
from '98lite because of the latter's poor USB support - though XP _is_
more stable, I admit. If you're wondering why I take this 7 'group, it
was initially because I was setting up a new machine for a friend a year
or two ago, and I've stayed because I like the people here.]

probably have to keep supporting Win7 for decades.

They have no obligation to beyond what they've stated (and possibly not
even that).

"XP rules ok" had its day, but Win7 users will start the revolution at
the suggestion of an end to support.

With about as much success (-:.

One slight problem looms for me. What about those buying new OEM PCs?
They'll have Win8 on them. And so many new PCs are sold every day in
the western world. Will those people learn to appreciate Win8? Or will

It isn't that they'll "learn to appreciate it", it's that they won't
know anything else, until they have to work with dinosaurs like us who
are using the older OSs; their reaction will be "what a strange way to
do things". You like the OS you first use a lot.

they strip them down with things like Classic Shell?

Ed

If they're older users familiar with older OSs, yes - or some of them
will; some will learn to use (if not love) 8, and whatever comes next.
But new users who haven't really used PCs much before (especially if
they _have_ used 'phones or whatever 8 is supposed to resemble) will
just learn it the way we did '9x/XP/7.

You'd be more convincing if you could list some advantages of moving
from 7 to 8 (other than, that is, it's MS' latest).

Me, convincing? Me, who is happy with XP and was sad to leave 98lite?

I can easily supply a list of DISadvantages.

It would probably contribute something useful if you do. (They won't
mean anything to _me_ if they're 7-specific, but they will to most
people here, I think!)

Ed

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum." Translation: "Garbage in, garbage out."

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 10:19:12 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 07:00:55 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 09:40:51 +0200, Steve Hayes
wrote:


But when I needed to replace my desktop computer, I bought a new one without
an operating system and restored my Acronis backups. It took me a few hours to
update drivers, etc, but not the months (if not years) that a fresh instal
would require.


If that's the case, you've been extremely lucky. A backup from one
computer will normally not run on a different one, and a clean
installation is required.

He probably used the Acronis Plus Pack, an add-on for True Image. One
of its features is that it allows you to restore an image to
dissimilar hardware, which can obviously be very handy at times.


Ah, OK. Thanks, I didn't know about the Plus Pack. Yes, that sounds
very handy.

On Sat, 6 Oct 2012 16:26:02 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote:

In message , Char Jackson
writes:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 09:40:51 +0200, Steve Hayes
wrote:

But when I needed to replace my desktop computer, I bought a new one without
an operating system and restored my Acronis backups. It took me a few hours to
update drivers, etc, but not the months (if not years) that a fresh instal
would require.

As others have said, if a fresh install (OS, apps, tweaks) takes more
than about 4-6 hours, you're probably jumping into it unprepared.

You're not being fair: such "preparation time" must be added.
[]

When you decide to paint your house and someone later asks you how
long it took, do you add the amount of time it took you to decide on a
color and visit the paint store to buy paint and brushes? I don't.

My point is that you can usually take all the time that you want to
prepare for a task, but you certainly wouldn't include that planning
time when you report on how long the task took to complete.

--

Char Jackson

On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 16:43:45 +0100, choro wrote:

On 06/10/2012 16:07, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 09:40:51 +0200, Steve Hayes
wrote:

But when I needed to replace my desktop computer, I bought a new one without
an operating system and restored my Acronis backups. It took me a few hours to
update drivers, etc, but not the months (if not years) that a fresh instal
would require.

As others have said, if a fresh install (OS, apps, tweaks) takes more
than about 4-6 hours, you're probably jumping into it unprepared.
Likewise, if installing or updating drivers takes a few hours by
itself, something is definitely out of whack.

Having said that, it's also true that some people just work slower
than others. But still, a MONTH? Clearly an exaggeration.

NO! Not really. It takes time to remember and install all the little
programs and freeware that one had on the old setup. The whole process
can take a few weeks but of course this does NOT mean that one is tied
down to doing this and nothing else. You do it in dribs and drabs. But
the beauty of a fresh installation is that you can apply the experience
you've gained with your old setup to setting up the new computer to just
how you like it.

To be clear, I'm not doubting that it takes some people days or weeks
or, who knows, even months or years. I'm just saying it takes *me*
about 4-6 hours and I don't think I work especially quickly at it. I
certainly don't hurry.

If someone asked me to spend a full day on this task, I don't know
what I would do with the second half of the day. Watch TV, I suppose.

The thing to do when installing a new system from scratch is to think
and plan everything beforehand and then get on with it. --

Exactly. My High School shop teacher used to say, "Plan your work,
then work your plan." Good advice.

--

Char Jackson