MS's support logic

Hope we say "SCREW YOU, YOU GREEDY *******S ALWAYS WANTING
MORE".

No worries.

I’m eager to see how business and consumer will react when MS forces
them to make a “conscious� decision on the monthly fee for an OS,
especially when the majority of consumer thought it’s free as part of
the computer they purchased.

This company has developed a habit of being kicked in the ass and then
change.




On 8/9/2014 8:19 AM, pjp wrote:
In article , says...

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 08 Aug 2014 20:20:10 +0200, A wrote:

Or you can use Linux which is free. I recommend Net Runner for ex Window
users:

http://www.netrunner-os.com/

You can dual boot with XP until you get used to it.

Linux is ok, but it's not for everyone. Linux users like to tout the
system using as their main argument that windows is awful, full of bugs
and virus ridden.

I don't agree. I just don't want to rent Windows which is what you will
have to do in the very near future. We're on the *threshold". Office 365
is just the beginning.

That's the truth. I stated during 98 Beta testing that this was the way
MS wanted to go, e.g. pay a fee for every time you use their product.
They'll at least try that approach if only nudging into it to gauge
response.

On 2014-08-10, xfile wrote:

Hope we say "SCREW YOU, YOU GREEDY *******S ALWAYS WANTING
MORE".

No worries.

I’m eager to see how business and consumer will react when MS forces
them to make a “conscious� decision on the monthly fee for an OS,
especially when the majority of consumer thought it’s free as part of
the computer they purchased.

This company has developed a habit of being kicked in the ass and then
change.


The same way they react here.
They want to pay 5 bucks for upgrades.

Win9 will be 5 bucks per month.
XP would have cost these gamers 840 bucks so far
That's a lot of Pepsi and cheetos.

--
As a child, I fell on an Encyclopaedea, but still remember most of it.

On 8/9/14 7:10 PM, Darth_Hideous wrote:
On 2014-08-10, Ken Springer wrote:
On 8/9/14 8:46 AM, Darth_Hideous wrote:
On 2014-08-09, Mayayana wrote:

snip

1) | Linux runs Firefox, TBird, Chrome, Spreadsheets, etc.
| It's for everyone.

Linux doesn't support most of the software people
use, and to make matters worse, the Linux fanclub
won't admit that. GIMP has been unusable for 20


I listed most of the software people use.

No, you didn't. You listed 3 programs and a type of program. And of
the 3 programs, TBird is an email client, and I believe email clients
are being used by fewer and fewer users.

But the most widely used programs, most likely, are those of MS Office,
of which Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and Outlook are not supported on Linux.

Libre Office.
That was the etc part after Spreadsheets.

Which is still not the same program or set of programs. Same type, but
not the same program.

I gave up on LO. Too many issues, and definitely not 100% compatible,
despite what they (LO) want to tell you.


I use Gimp all the time.
Works fine.

I don't think it's a question of working or not working, but how well
does it work, is it efficient and easy to use, and have the same feature
set as Photoshop.



It works well.
It's efficient, easy to use, has more features than Photoshop.
But, as I don't use PS, nor do I intend to, it's a moot point.

If you don't use PS, how do you know it has the same features? I know
the last time I tried Gimp, I couldn't find a way to change the units
for the ruler.



--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.6.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 2014-08-10, Ken Springer wrote:
On 8/9/14 7:10 PM, Darth_Hideous wrote:
On 2014-08-10, Ken Springer wrote:
On 8/9/14 8:46 AM, Darth_Hideous wrote:
On 2014-08-09, Mayayana wrote:

snip

1) | Linux runs Firefox, TBird, Chrome, Spreadsheets, etc.
| It's for everyone.

Linux doesn't support most of the software people
use, and to make matters worse, the Linux fanclub
won't admit that. GIMP has been unusable for 20


I listed most of the software people use.

No, you didn't. You listed 3 programs and a type of program. And of
the 3 programs, TBird is an email client, and I believe email clients
are being used by fewer and fewer users.

But the most widely used programs, most likely, are those of MS Office,
of which Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and Outlook are not supported on Linux.

Libre Office.
That was the etc part after Spreadsheets.

Which is still not the same program or set of programs. Same type, but
not the same program.

I gave up on LO. Too many issues, and definitely not 100% compatible,
despite what they (LO) want to tell you.

Libre Office /is/ 100% compatible to me.
I have Office 2007, but haven't used it in years.
If you want to ride a horse, you got to get off the mule

I'm talking PCs for "most" people.

If, for business reasons you require Office, then it's needed.
That isn't "most PCs" though.
Unless Office is on 500,000,000 computers



I use Gimp all the time.
Works fine.

I don't think it's a question of working or not working, but how well
does it work, is it efficient and easy to use, and have the same feature
set as Photoshop.



It works well.
It's efficient, easy to use, has more features than Photoshop.
But, as I don't use PS, nor do I intend to, it's a moot point.

If you don't use PS, how do you know it has the same features? I know
the last time I tried Gimp, I couldn't find a way to change the units
for the ruler.


I'm not making stop action scenes for Transformers or anything.
Picture touch ups.
Used it to remove date stamps from a lot of digital pics.
Deformations, effects.

If you like it, good.
I'm not anti paying for software.

Originally, all I was saying is anyone /can/ use Linux.
You don't have too.

--
As a child, I fell on an Encyclopaedea, but still remember most of it.

On 2014-08-10, Ken Springer wrote:

If you don't use PS, how do you know it has the same features? I know
the last time I tried Gimp, I couldn't find a way to change the units
for the ruler.

Along the bottom edge (below picture) is a selection box.
Default seems to be px, but scrolling thru that will give all kinds of units.


--
As a child, I fell on an Encyclopaedea, but still remember most of it.

On 8/9/14 8:03 PM, Darth_Hideous wrote:
On 2014-08-10, Ken Springer wrote:
On 8/9/14 7:10 PM, Darth_Hideous wrote:
On 2014-08-10, Ken Springer wrote:
On 8/9/14 8:46 AM, Darth_Hideous wrote:
On 2014-08-09, Mayayana wrote:

snip

1) | Linux runs Firefox, TBird, Chrome, Spreadsheets, etc.
| It's for everyone.

Linux doesn't support most of the software people
use, and to make matters worse, the Linux fanclub
won't admit that. GIMP has been unusable for 20


I listed most of the software people use.

No, you didn't. You listed 3 programs and a type of program. And of
the 3 programs, TBird is an email client, and I believe email clients
are being used by fewer and fewer users.

But the most widely used programs, most likely, are those of MS Office,
of which Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and Outlook are not supported on Linux.

Libre Office.
That was the etc part after Spreadsheets.

Which is still not the same program or set of programs. Same type, but
not the same program.

I gave up on LO. Too many issues, and definitely not 100% compatible,
despite what they (LO) want to tell you.

Libre Office /is/ 100% compatible to me.

Which is what a lot of LO and open source people say. Being compatible
for the features you use does NOT make the two programs compatible. To
this point, I've yet to try a word processor which claims compatibility
that is 100% compatible. A friend of mine sent me a .doc file from the
latest Open Office, and it would not open correctly in Word 2007. And
there were no truly advanced features in the document.

I have Office 2007, but haven't used it in years.
If you want to ride a horse, you got to get off the mule

I did, still have not found a suitable substitute. On Windows, I'm
trying out SoftMaker Office, but to date haven't used it. Been no need
to. On this Mac, I tried Pages (Apple product) but simply didn't have
features I used a lot in Word. Because I wanted Outlook for my email
client, I've given up on Thunderbird also, I now have Word installed.
Although there are a number of different word processors in the Apple
Store that look awful interesting. :-)

I'm talking PCs for "most" people.

If, for business reasons you require Office, then it's needed.
That isn't "most PCs" though.
Unless Office is on 500,000,000 computers



I use Gimp all the time.
Works fine.

I don't think it's a question of working or not working, but how well
does it work, is it efficient and easy to use, and have the same feature
set as Photoshop.



It works well.
It's efficient, easy to use, has more features than Photoshop.
But, as I don't use PS, nor do I intend to, it's a moot point.

If you don't use PS, how do you know it has the same features? I know
the last time I tried Gimp, I couldn't find a way to change the units
for the ruler.


I'm not making stop action scenes for Transformers or anything.
Picture touch ups.

For simple touch ups, you surely don't need something as sophisticated
as Gimp. For my stuff, Irfanview (Windows) is more than I need.

Used it to remove date stamps from a lot of digital pics.
Deformations, effects.

That's more than what I need to do, and I don't think Irfanview is
capable of that as it's not an editor.

If you like it, good.
I'm not anti paying for software.

Originally, all I was saying is anyone /can/ use Linux.
You don't have too.

Agreed. I've tried some distros, and been intrigued by Linux, just
never seems to be the time to really work with things like this anymore.
:-(

But another point is, that for many things different users want to do,
Linux apparently doesn't have the software or support for data from
other platforms.

Sadly, I've moved from being an avid support of open source software to
going back to commercial software. Just too many problems with it,
although Firefox seems to be an exception. Although on a Windows
computer, I think I'll replace it with Pale Moon based on comments I've
read about it. On my Windows 8 computer and this Mac, Maxthon outruns
Firefox hands down.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.6.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 8/9/14 8:15 PM, Darth_Hideous wrote:
On 2014-08-10, Ken Springer wrote:

If you don't use PS, how do you know it has the same features? I know
the last time I tried Gimp, I couldn't find a way to change the units
for the ruler.

Along the bottom edge (below picture) is a selection box.
Default seems to be px, but scrolling thru that will give all kinds of units.

Kind of my bad here, I meant a permanent change in defaults. Possibly
an error in the Mac build.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.6.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On 8/9/14 8:18 AM, Mayayana wrote:

They also get a kick out of switching
between their 4 empty desktops.

Hey!!! I resemble that remark! LOL

I'd never used desktops before I bought this Mac, now I wouldn't have a
computer without them. They just fit me better. Yet I've got a friend
who pins everything, including the laundry, to her taskbar. That used
to be OK, but I couldn't work that way anymore.


--
Ken
Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.6.0
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:12:57 +0800, xfile wrote:

Iÿm eager to see how business and consumer will react when MS forces
them to make a ´conscious¡ decision on the monthly fee for an OS,
especially when the majority of consumer thought itÿs free as part of
the computer they purchased.

Welcome to the world of agile development and rapid releases.
Monthly fees and rent rather than buy makes sense if you want the
latest and greatest (and with bugs cleaned out). Waiting three years
for new Windows versions will be a thing of the past.

mechanic wrote:
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:12:57 +0800, xfile wrote:

Iÿm eager to see how business and consumer will react when MS forces
them to make a ´conscious¡ decision on the monthly fee for an OS,
especially when the majority of consumer thought itÿs free as part of
the computer they purchased.

Welcome to the world of agile development and rapid releases.
Monthly fees and rent rather than buy makes sense if you want the
latest and greatest (and with bugs cleaned out). Waiting three years
for new Windows versions will be a thing of the past.


If they rent, Windows will be a thing of the past. Trust me, they won't
be doing it for the benefit of the customer. It will prevent piracy and
it will enable them to have all your data on their servers so they can
sell it. They are counting on the ignorance of your average home user
but will shooting themselves in the foot as far as techies and business
users are concerned.

--
A

| They also get a kick out of switching
| between their 4 empty desktops.
|
| Hey!!! I resemble that remark! LOL
|
| I'd never used desktops before I bought this Mac,

I didn't know Macs had multiple desktops. I read
recently that MS is thought to be introducing them
in the next version of Windows. Maybe that's because
of the Mac version.

Darth_Hideous wrote:
On 2014-08-09, A wrote:
Bert wrote:
In A wrote:

Bert wrote:
You might also provide a list of products that are bug free.

Hammer
Saw
Screwdriver
Paper
Ball point pen
Guitar
Oboe
Drinking glass
Wine glass
etc.

Need more?

No one has ever hurt themselves with a hammer, saw or screwdriver? Never
had a paper cut? Never made a spelling error or written something
entirely nonsensical with a ball point pen? Don't get me started about
the horrors inflicted with oboes.

I could go on ...


Those aren't bugs in the product. Those are results of the user not
using them properly.


My ball point pen ran out of ink.
Bic will not offer future updates for that pen, they want me to throw it
away and get a new one.
They knew it would run out of ink, yet sold it to me anyway.
I can't believe they left me out to hang like that.
Maybe a 2 cent upgrade path should have been offered.
I play crossword puzzles with that pen.
I've been advised to try a Linux pen, but that is just a twig off a
dead tree.
It rips the crossword paper, and could potentially poke an eye.

I've got ball point pen, too. There's doesn't seem to be any way to
change the font, and the font provided is borderline illegible. Surely
that's a bug?

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

On 8/9/2014 6:08 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
On Sat, 9 Aug 2014 15:07:30 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

Actually, my first thought on reading Bert's list was to recall that I
just cut myself with a screwdriver a couple of days ago.

Of course I meant A's list...

Sorry, Bert.

There was a recent news article about a cut finger and a $9,000
medical bill. Go figure. (No stitches, just a dressing, a finger splint,
and an antibiotic cream, all done by a PA/Nurse. (after hours emergency
room)
Something about the local hospital (another state) refusing insurance
contracts, and being a for profit community privately run hospital.

On 10/08/2014 17:25, Mike Barnes wrote:
Darth_Hideous wrote:
On 2014-08-09, A wrote:
Bert wrote:
In A wrote:

Bert wrote:
You might also provide a list of products that are bug free.

Hammer
Saw
Screwdriver
Paper
Ball point pen
Guitar
Oboe
Drinking glass
Wine glass
etc.

Need more?

No one has ever hurt themselves with a hammer, saw or screwdriver?
Never
had a paper cut? Never made a spelling error or written something
entirely nonsensical with a ball point pen? Don't get me started about
the horrors inflicted with oboes.

I could go on ...


Those aren't bugs in the product. Those are results of the user not
using them properly.


My ball point pen ran out of ink.
Bic will not offer future updates for that pen, they want me to throw it
away and get a new one.
They knew it would run out of ink, yet sold it to me anyway.
I can't believe they left me out to hang like that.
Maybe a 2 cent upgrade path should have been offered.
I play crossword puzzles with that pen.
I've been advised to try a Linux pen, but that is just a twig off a
dead tree.
It rips the crossword paper, and could potentially poke an eye.

I've got ball point pen, too. There's doesn't seem to be any way to
change the font, and the font provided is borderline illegible. Surely
that's a bug?


I think I must have the same type.

--

Brian Gregory (in the UK).
To email me please remove all the letter vee from my email address.

"Mike Barnes" wrote in message
...
Darth_Hideous wrote:


[SNIP]

My ball point pen ran out of ink.
Bic will not offer future updates for that pen, they want me to throw it
away and get a new one.
They knew it would run out of ink, yet sold it to me anyway.
I can't believe they left me out to hang like that.
Maybe a 2 cent upgrade path should have been offered.
I play crossword puzzles with that pen.
I've been advised to try a Linux pen, but that is just a twig off a
dead tree.
It rips the crossword paper, and could potentially poke an eye.

I've got ball point pen, too. There's doesn't seem to be any way to change
the font, and the font provided is borderline illegible. Surely that's a
bug?


I filed a bug report.
Mine came with Chicken Scratch font.
Package said Script.

--
OE6 testing