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Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 16th 16, 11:30 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
. . .winston[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 404
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexp...on-innovation/

qp
•Windows 7 will continue to be supported for security, reliability, and
compatibility through January 14, 2020 on previous generation silicon.
Windows 8.1 will receive the same support through January 10, 2023. This
includes most of the devices available for purchase today by consumers
or enterprises.
•Going forward, as new silicon generations are introduced, they will
require the latest Windows platform at that time for support. This
enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon,
while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous
generations of platform and silicon. For example, Windows 10 will be the
only supported Windows platform on Intel’s upcoming “Kaby Lake” silicon,
Qualcomm’s upcoming “8996” silicon, and AMD’s upcoming “Bristol Ridge”
silicon.
•Through July 17, 2017, Skylake devices on the supported list will also
be supported with Windows 7 and 8.1. During the 18-month support period,
these systems should be upgraded to Windows 10 to continue receiving
support after the period ends. After July 2017, the most critical
Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 security updates will be addressed for these
configurations, and will be released if the update does not risk the
reliability or compatibility of the Windows 7/8.1 platform on other devices.
/qp

Also see:

http://arstechnica.com/information-t...to-windows-10/

qp
If you own a system with an Intel 6th generation Core processor—more
memorably known as Skylake—and run Windows 7 or Windows 8.1, you'll have
to think about upgrading to Windows 10 within the next 18 months.
Microsoft announced today that after July 17, 2017, only the "most
critical" security fixes will be released for those platforms and those
fixes will only be made available if they don't "risk the reliability or
compatibility" of Windows 7 and 8.1 on other (non-Skylake) systems.

The full range of compatibility and security fixes will be published for
non-Skylake machines for Windows 7 until January 14 2020, and for
Windows 8.1 until January 10 2023.
/qp



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

Ads
  #2  
Old January 17th 16, 01:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Bill[_40_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 346
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

In message , . . .winston
writes
After July 2017, the most critical Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 security
updates will be addressed for these configurations, and will be
released if the update does not risk the reliability or compatibility
of the Windows 7/8.1 platform on other devices.


Which appears to be saying that the most critical security updates for
Windows 7 may not be released after that date.

I have to say that at the moment, I am just annoyed by the whole
situation. I have decided that here, for the main audio work I will
stick with Windows 7 and, where necessary, XP. If things start to get
too critical, the Plan B looks like a move to a Mac system at huge
expense. The Linux backup servers can stay as they are.

For me that's fine, but what about the small businesses I look after?
Typically a room full of mature and lovely non-technical ladies using a
small 5 to 10 machine W7 network to manage customers, resources and
finance as well as developing strategy etc. They certainly won't want
Windows 10 with its potential re-boot to a new build on every machine,
and I can't see the owners being happy with telemetry sending their
business data across the world.

I'm at the moment trying to work up enthusiasm to ring a friend who is
waiting for help with his W10 machine that has suddenly lost half its
functionality. I dread having to guide him over the phone through a
repair install, but think it may be necessary. I think the real problem
is that the free W10 update he did some months back from Windows 8.1 may
have been faulty but not in an obvious way.

Another friend has just built a new desktop to run W7 with a Skylake
processor on a Gigabyte mainboard. He can't get the on-board graphics
drivers to work even though it works with the MS video drivers.
Technology is getting increasingly depressing.

My main complaint remains that Microsoft have not understood that their
main selling point to individuals and small businesses was the
flexibility and driver support that Windows has. If only some Linux
developers could grasp this and build on it.
--
Bill
  #3  
Old January 17th 16, 03:42 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Neil
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Posts: 714
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

On 1/17/2016 7:25 AM, Bill wrote:
[...]
My main complaint remains that Microsoft have not understood that their
main selling point to individuals and small businesses was the
flexibility and driver support that Windows has. If only some Linux
developers could grasp this and build on it.

The problem is that there is no financial incentive to develop drivers
for free. Nor is there any financial incentive for hardware
manufacturers to develop drivers for the moving target(s) that Linux has
always been. It's not like there is one "Linux" and that all things
developed for it will be reliable.

Microsoft's strength had been the stable, open platform that provided a
basis for specialized hardware and software development. They seem to
have lost that vision and threatened the viability of businesses of any
size that depended on their OS for stable and financially manageable
operations.

Good luck with that.

--
Best regards,

Neil
  #4  
Old January 18th 16, 03:27 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
. . .winston[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 404
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

Bill wrote on 01/17/2016 7:25 AM:
In message , . . .winston
writes
After July 2017, the most critical Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 security
updates will be addressed for these configurations, and will be
released if the update does not risk the reliability or compatibility
of the Windows 7/8.1 platform on other devices.


Which appears to be saying that the most critical security updates for
Windows 7 may not be released after that date.


It doesn't appear to state that at all. It's much more narrow. After
July 2017 only critical and security updates for Skylake configurations
will be released(for Skylake devices) if the update doesn't risk/raise
issues with supported Win7/8.1 devices. Thus Skylake devices need to go
to Win10 to continue support since an update may not be released(for
Skylake devices) if it jeopardizes reliability and compatibility on
7/8.1 devices (i.e. 7/8.1/10 devices get the update but not Skylake on
7/8.1)

Win7 silicon is supported through its EOL in Jan. 2020, 8.1 through Jan.
2023.

New silicon is only supported with Win10.

The take-away and probably more important than the above(which I
mentioned in a post last July prior to Win10's release which some here
and in online forums seemed to disagree with or take exception to) is
the interpretation of Win10's support for the life of a device.
- Repeating it again - it does not mean in perpetuity for the life of
the o/s on all devices(via free upgrade, OEM pre-built, or user built or
System Builder built with full version media)but only as long as the
***device** is supported.

One person stated
"The upgrade is "FREE" and continues as such for the life of the OS"
- That was incorrect then, and remains so now.

Support is per device, not the o/s.

Unless MSFT changes directions - Win7 support until 2020, 8.1 until
2023, and Win10 until 2025 under the constraints noted below(re-quoted
from my July 2015 post).

Support parameters are defined in the Windows 10 Lifecyle FAQ
cf. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle
qp
Windows 10, released in July 2015 **
** Updates are cumulative, with each update built upon all of the
updates that preceded it. A device needs to install the latest update to
remain supported. Updates may include new features, fixes (security
and/or non-security), or a combination of both. Not all features in an
update will work on all devices. A device may not be able to receive
updates if the device hardware is incompatible, lacking current drivers,
or otherwise outside of the Original Equipment Manufacturer’s (“OEM”)
support period. Update availability may vary, for example by country,
region, network connectivity, mobile operator (e.g., for
cellular-capable devices), or hardware capabilities (including, e.g.,
free disk space).
/qp


Should Skylake folks be upset - imo, yes at least three obvious reasons.
1. Especially those using Skylake on 7 or 8.1 without a desire to
upgrade to 10. For other silicon on 7/8.1 - no change, for other
silicon on Win10 - no change, for new silicon - only Win10.
2. New silicon pre-empts the ability to use Win7 or 8.1 (but in some
cases that shouldn't be too much of a surprise - Retail and OEM sales of
Win7 Pro(the only remaining Win7 o/s still available based on 'End of
Sales' dates) ceased for retail in Oct 2013 and for continues for
pre-built until Oct. 2016(~9 more months). Personal building Win7
doesn't necessarily apply per licensing - Win7 System Builder for
Personal Use doesn't exist but that does not mean building your own Win7
is not technically feasible - it does mean choose the right hardware
while you can!
3. Microsoft failed to a certain extent and should have been more
transparent(on what I stated in July 2015) publicly on what 'life of the
device' meant.


My main complaint remains that Microsoft have not understood that their
main selling point to individuals and small businesses was the
flexibility and driver support that Windows has. If only some Linux
developers could grasp this and build on it.


That's always been a strong point, though at this stage the ecosystem
has radically changed. The ability to support too much and in perpetuity
is no longer achievable(hardware manufacturers, software, and o/s
resource, expense, and accrual cost).

I read recently a complaint about Laserjet 4100 not working on Win10.
Yes, if it worked on Win7 one might expect it to work on 10.
Realistically, the Laserjet 4100 was 9 years old when Win7 was released.
Expecting 15 yrs of support for a device might be a stretch(even XP
didn't last that long g)



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

  #5  
Old January 18th 16, 04:26 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
John Doe[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,378
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

"winston" wrote:

Bill wrote:
winston writes


After July 2017, the most critical Windows 7 and Windows 8.1
security updates will be addressed for these configurations, and
will be released if the update does not risk the reliability or
compatibility of the Windows 7/8.1 platform on other devices.


Which appears to be saying that the most critical security updates
for Windows 7 may not be released after that date.


It doesn't appear to state that at all. It's much more narrow. After
July 2017 only critical and security updates for Skylake
configurations will be released(for Skylake devices) if the update
doesn't risk/raise issues with supported Win7/8.1 devices. Thus
Skylake devices need to go to Win10 to continue support since an
update may not be released(for Skylake devices) if it jeopardizes
reliability and compatibility on 7/8.1 devices (i.e. 7/8.1/10 devices
get the update but not Skylake on 7/8.1)

Win7 silicon is supported through its EOL in Jan. 2020, 8.1 through
Jan. 2023.

New silicon is only supported with Win10.


What about manufacturer refurbished silicon?
  #6  
Old January 20th 16, 08:52 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
edevils
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 276
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

On 18/01/2016 03:27, . . .winston wrote:
....snip...
The take-away and probably more important than the above(which I
mentioned in a post last July prior to Win10's release which some here
and in online forums seemed to disagree with or take exception to) is
the interpretation of Win10's support for the life of a device.
- Repeating it again - it does not mean in perpetuity for the life of
the o/s on all devices(via free upgrade, OEM pre-built, or user built or
System Builder built with full version media)but only as long as the
***device** is supported.


Looks like they also changed the meaning of "support lifecycle" for
Windows 7/8x.
So far, it used to mean: Windows is supported on any hardware during the
(10-year) support lifecycle.
From now on it is: Windows is only going to be supported on hardware
contemporary or previous to that Windows version's cycle of sales, not
on newer hardware, even if the newer harder is released before the end
of that Windows version's support lifecycle.
  #7  
Old January 20th 16, 11:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
. . .winston[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 404
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

edevils wrote on 01/20/2016 2:52 PM:
On 18/01/2016 03:27, . . .winston wrote:
...snip...
The take-away and probably more important than the above(which I
mentioned in a post last July prior to Win10's release which some here
and in online forums seemed to disagree with or take exception to) is
the interpretation of Win10's support for the life of a device.
- Repeating it again - it does not mean in perpetuity for the life of
the o/s on all devices(via free upgrade, OEM pre-built, or user built or
System Builder built with full version media)but only as long as the
***device** is supported.


Looks like they also changed the meaning of "support lifecycle" for
Windows 7/8x.
So far, it used to mean: Windows is supported on any hardware during the
(10-year) support lifecycle.
From now on it is: Windows is only going to be supported on hardware
contemporary or previous to that Windows version's cycle of sales, not
on newer hardware, even if the newer harder is released before the end
of that Windows version's support lifecycle.


That's where folks misinterpret the policy. Support lasts until the
hardware is no longer supported - that decision can be made by MSFT or
the OEMs or the hardware manufacturer's (always has, always will).
Additionally, the hardware and the o/s needs the ability to receive and
install updates.

What has changed and only changed(and a discomfort to those with the
latest 6th Gen Skylake Intel processor released in 3rd Quarter
2016[circa August]) is the loss of support on Windows 7/8.1 for the
Skylake devices after July 2017. Support is restored if the device is
upgraded to Win10.

What's unnerving about this policy change is it being coincidental with
the problems Intel has been having with the chip which impacts support
across the full spectrum (Intel, the OEMs, and Microsoft). By limiting
its use to Win10 after July 2017 those same entities who all provide
support (warranty, contractually) reduce their need (and cost) to
address Win7/8x issues.

It would be a pipe dream to believe that all the above (Intel,
OEMs-HP,Dell, Lenovo, and Microsoft) don't wish to reduce the support
necessary for 7/8x devices.

There's no doubt in my mind that support is headed in the direction of
being available for the current and previous hardware and
software(Skylake being the current exception).


--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience
  #8  
Old January 21st 16, 01:09 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Neil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 714
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

On 1/20/2016 5:32 PM, . . .winston wrote:
edevils wrote on 01/20/2016 2:52 PM:
On 18/01/2016 03:27, . . .winston wrote:
...snip...
The take-away and probably more important than the above(which I
mentioned in a post last July prior to Win10's release which some here
and in online forums seemed to disagree with or take exception to) is
the interpretation of Win10's support for the life of a device.
- Repeating it again - it does not mean in perpetuity for the life of
the o/s on all devices(via free upgrade, OEM pre-built, or user built or
System Builder built with full version media)but only as long as the
***device** is supported.


Looks like they also changed the meaning of "support lifecycle" for
Windows 7/8x.
So far, it used to mean: Windows is supported on any hardware during the
(10-year) support lifecycle.
From now on it is: Windows is only going to be supported on hardware
contemporary or previous to that Windows version's cycle of sales, not
on newer hardware, even if the newer harder is released before the end
of that Windows version's support lifecycle.


That's where folks misinterpret the policy. Support lasts until the
hardware is no longer supported - that decision can be made by MSFT or
the OEMs or the hardware manufacturer's (always has, always will).
Additionally, the hardware and the o/s needs the ability to receive and
install updates.

This is yet another incredibly bad decision. Advanced hardware systems
for almost every industry, such as media production, printing, research,
and so on relies on their systems being stable and able to work every
day. And, they continue to be functional and profitable long after the
"support" for those products end.

Even "current" systems for these kinds of applications require that the
miscellaneous pieces of hardware involved, firmware and *software* are
all compatible at the same time. *It has never been the case* in my many
years of work with PC-based systems that these factors were always
simultaneously viable because updates for any one of them have often
conflicted with one or more of the others. The only option in such cases
would be to roll back to a previous configuration, but usually down-time
was unavoidable. But, that goes out the window if you can't regulate the
updating of the OS. The relatively simple show-stopping problems with
"plain vanilla" systems that are reported daily in this group should
give a clue about the headaches ahead for more sophisticated systems. I
just don't understand why Microsoft thinks Windows 10's policies are a
good idea.

[...]

What's unnerving about this policy change is it being coincidental with
the problems Intel has been having with the chip which impacts support
across the full spectrum (Intel, the OEMs, and Microsoft). By limiting
its use to Win10 after July 2017 those same entities who all provide
support (warranty, contractually) reduce their need (and cost) to
address Win7/8x issues.

This is a good example of one aspect of my concerns, above!

--
Best regards,

Neil
  #9  
Old January 21st 16, 08:45 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
edevils
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 276
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

On 20/01/2016 20:52, edevils wrote:
Looks like they also changed the meaning of "support lifecycle" for
Windows 7/8x.
So far, it used to mean: Windows is supported on any hardware during the
(10-year) support lifecycle.
From now on it is: Windows is only going to be supported on hardware
contemporary or previous to that Windows version's cycle of sales, not
on newer hardware, even if the newer harder


Erratum: "newer hardware"

is released before the end
of that Windows version's support lifecycle.


  #10  
Old January 21st 16, 09:13 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
edevils
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 276
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

On 20/01/2016 23:32, . . .winston wrote:
edevils wrote on 01/20/2016 2:52 PM:
On 18/01/2016 03:27, . . .winston wrote:
...snip...
The take-away and probably more important than the above(which I
mentioned in a post last July prior to Win10's release which some here
and in online forums seemed to disagree with or take exception to) is
the interpretation of Win10's support for the life of a device.
- Repeating it again - it does not mean in perpetuity for the life of
the o/s on all devices(via free upgrade, OEM pre-built, or user built or
System Builder built with full version media)but only as long as the
***device** is supported.


Looks like they also changed the meaning of "support lifecycle" for
Windows 7/8x.
So far, it used to mean: Windows is supported on any hardware during the
(10-year) support lifecycle.
From now on it is: Windows is only going to be supported on hardware
contemporary or previous to that Windows version's cycle of sales, not
on newer hardware, even if the newer harder is released before the end
of that Windows version's support lifecycle.


That's where folks misinterpret the policy. Support lasts until the
hardware is no longer supported - that decision can be made by MSFT or
the OEMs or the hardware manufacturer's (always has, always will).
Additionally, the hardware and the o/s needs the ability to receive and
install updates.


You are technically right. Even in the past any new hardware could lack
support for a Windows version, even during that Windows version's
support lifecycle.

Still, did it ever happen for CPUs?

Besides, did they ever *trumpet* the lack of support? :-O

Don't you think there is something new and disturbing in the way MS
announced the lack of support on future silicon?



What has changed and only changed(and a discomfort to those with the
latest 6th Gen Skylake Intel processor released in 3rd Quarter
2016[circa August]) is the loss of support on Windows 7/8.1 for the
Skylake devices after July 2017. Support is restored if the device is
upgraded to Win10.


Yep, that's definitely a change. True, the change is limited to a
specific processor, but I get the feeling it is setting a new course.


What's unnerving about this policy change is it being coincidental with
the problems Intel has been having with the chip which impacts support
across the full spectrum (Intel, the OEMs, and Microsoft). By limiting
its use to Win10 after July 2017 those same entities who all provide
support (warranty, contractually) reduce their need (and cost) to
address Win7/8x issues.

It would be a pipe dream to believe that all the above (Intel,
OEMs-HP,Dell, Lenovo, and Microsoft) don't wish to reduce the support
necessary for 7/8x devices.

There's no doubt in my mind that support is headed in the direction of
being available for the current and previous hardware and
software(Skylake being the current exception).


I understand, but they should have told users about the forthcoming loss
of support *before* they started selling that processor.

Now you support it, now you don't!



  #11  
Old January 21st 16, 10:46 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
. . .winston[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 404
Default Intel 6th Gen Skylake Processors and Win10

edevils wrote on 01/21/2016 3:13 PM:
On 20/01/2016 23:32, . . .winston wrote:
edevils wrote on 01/20/2016 2:52 PM:
On 18/01/2016 03:27, . . .winston wrote:
...snip...
The take-away and probably more important than the above(which I
mentioned in a post last July prior to Win10's release which some here
and in online forums seemed to disagree with or take exception to) is
the interpretation of Win10's support for the life of a device.
- Repeating it again - it does not mean in perpetuity for the life of
the o/s on all devices(via free upgrade, OEM pre-built, or user
built or
System Builder built with full version media)but only as long as the
***device** is supported.

Looks like they also changed the meaning of "support lifecycle" for
Windows 7/8x.
So far, it used to mean: Windows is supported on any hardware during the
(10-year) support lifecycle.
From now on it is: Windows is only going to be supported on hardware
contemporary or previous to that Windows version's cycle of sales, not
on newer hardware, even if the newer harder is released before the end
of that Windows version's support lifecycle.


That's where folks misinterpret the policy. Support lasts until the
hardware is no longer supported - that decision can be made by MSFT or
the OEMs or the hardware manufacturer's (always has, always will).
Additionally, the hardware and the o/s needs the ability to receive and
install updates.


You are technically right. Even in the past any new hardware could lack
support for a Windows version, even during that Windows version's
support lifecycle.

Still, did it ever happen for CPUs?


Yes, but the information was not as upfront as this one for Skylake nor
near as global requiring a bit more digging to determine impact.

8.1 and 10 had unique support requirements that hinged on the the
processor (see the two below).
• Processor: 1 gigahertz (GHz)* or faster with support for PAE, NX, and
SSE2 (more info)
•To install a 64-bit OS on a 64-bit PC, your processor needs to
support CMPXCHG16b, PrefetchW, and LAHF/SAHF




Besides, did they ever *trumpet* the lack of support? :-O

Don't you think there is something new and disturbing in the way MS
announced the lack of support on future silicon?



What has changed and only changed(and a discomfort to those with the
latest 6th Gen Skylake Intel processor released in 3rd Quarter
2016[circa August]) is the loss of support on Windows 7/8.1 for the
Skylake devices after July 2017. Support is restored if the device is
upgraded to Win10.


Yep, that's definitely a change. True, the change is limited to a
specific processor, but I get the feeling it is setting a new course.


Could be...though as noted - this whole Skylake 'only Win10 support'
looks like an industry buy-in (Intel, OEM's and MSFT) with MSFT being
the primary communicator and imo taking away some of the pain from the
other involved companies - i.e. Send your big brother to protect you.


What's unnerving about this policy change is it being coincidental with
the problems Intel has been having with the chip which impacts support
across the full spectrum (Intel, the OEMs, and Microsoft). By limiting
its use to Win10 after July 2017 those same entities who all provide
support (warranty, contractually) reduce their need (and cost) to
address Win7/8x issues.

It would be a pipe dream to believe that all the above (Intel,
OEMs-HP,Dell, Lenovo, and Microsoft) don't wish to reduce the support
necessary for 7/8x devices.

There's no doubt in my mind that support is headed in the direction of
being available for the current and previous hardware and
software(Skylake being the current exception).


I understand, but they should have told users about the forthcoming loss
of support *before* they started selling that processor.


Intel sells the processor and at this time its unknown if earlier
testing prior to release (Skylake in Aug 2015) yielded concerns or set
the stage for the Skylake Win10 only announcement.



Now you support it, now you don't!





--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience

 




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