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#31
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
In article , VanguardLH
wrote: ...Most home users don't even have a router. They just use the RJ45 ports and wifi from the cable modem. which is a router. |
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#32
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:08:24 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 11:38:14 -0500, VanguardLH wrote: Char Jackson wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:13:36 +0100, Andy Burns wrote: Char Jackson wrote: That's both irrelevant and unimportant. When you're trying to connect from within your LAN, the router has nothing to do with it. For most home networks the router is most likely the DHCP server, that would make it relevant, but doesn't look like it's causing any problem in this case. One of the questions I asked in a follow-up was whether he's using DHCP. I would recommend not using DHCP during this troubleshooting phase, but you never know. Also, the router comment was in response to others suggesting that he might have to configure his router to allow specific port forwarding. For intraLAN operation, that kind of router configuration would be completely irrelevant and not applicable in the slightest. When you stay within your LAN, there is no 'router' functionality involved. Some routers can block traffic between their ports. That is extremely rare in consumer networking gear. It was in a DLink router that I had. Alas, it burned up over time (they have no fans, rely on convection current, but often decay over time due to heat). The Linksys which replaced it didn't have the option. Oh, I remember looking intently, because I liked being isolated from the rest of the family. The Dlink was a consumer-priced router, not a high-priced enterprise rack mount. Rather than physically isolating the ports, likely it was a firewall feature in the router controlling inbound traffic between ports. Almost certainly VLAN tags rather than firewall. That suggestion is incomplete without also pointing out that no DHCP server will be available, so assigning IP addresses and network masks becomes a manual task. Also, it might not be safe to assume Auto-MDI negotiation, meaning digging up a crossover cable, so a better recommendation would be to use a cheap switch, where cheap means unmanaged, but then we're back to talking about the switch that comes as part of the router package. Since his Kenwood lets him specify using DHCP, it should also let him specify a fixed IP address. A dynamic IP address is only for convenience to users and admins. Of course it allows him to manually specify an IP address and netmask, and I alluded to that directly above. It's also spelled out in the manual that he previously linked. If he is using a non-crossover cable between the router and the Kenwood (very likely), the same cable will work between the host and Kenwood. Only if the NICs are Gigabit, since that spec includes Auto-MDI. Fast Ethernet (100mbps) and below don't support Auto-MDI, so a crossover cable would then be required if a direct connection is to be made. Since no one has crossover cables lying around anymore, I'd suggest using an unmanaged switch so that standard cables can be used. Both with auto-negotiate on their end to eliminate the need for a special cable. That's what the router does, too. Yes, but only if the port(s) is/are Gigabit. |
#33
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
In article , Char Jackson
wrote: If he is using a non-crossover cable between the router and the Kenwood (very likely), the same cable will work between the host and Kenwood. Only if the NICs are Gigabit, since that spec includes Auto-MDI. Fast Ethernet (100mbps) and below don't support Auto-MDI, so a crossover cable would then be required if a direct connection is to be made. Since no one has crossover cables lying around anymore, I'd suggest using an unmanaged switch so that standard cables can be used. some do. Both with auto-negotiate on their end to eliminate the need for a special cable. That's what the router does, too. Yes, but only if the port(s) is/are Gigabit. see above. |
#34
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
Char Jackson wrote:
Only if the NICs are Gigabit, since that spec includes Auto-MDI. Fast Ethernet (100mbps) and below don't support Auto-MDI, so a crossover cable would then be required if a direct connection is to be made. Since no one has crossover cables lying around anymore, I'd suggest using an unmanaged switch so that standard cables can be used. Both with auto-negotiate on their end to eliminate the need for a special cable. That's what the router does, too. Yes, but only if the port(s) is/are Gigabit. Dan Dove of HP proposed auto-MDI get added to 1000Base-T back around 1980, so it first showed up there. Some newer hubs, switches, and routers have auto-MDI, including 10Base-T and 100Base-T. I remember having to use crossover cables in the 80's, maybe into the 90's, but not since. The Linksys BEFSR41 10/100 router that I got almost 2 decades ago (came out in 1999) doesn't need crossover cables. http://downloads.linksys.com/downloa...U_V10_DS_A.pdf "Automatically Detects Straight or Cross-over Cable" I don't remember the model of the DLINK that I had before that (which could let be isolate its LAN-side ports), so I can't check on its specs, but I don't remember ever being concerned about crossover cables with that one. In fact, I tossed what crossover cables I had a very long time ago. Didn't even need them with hubs. |
#35
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
In article , VanguardLH
wrote: Dan Dove of HP proposed auto-MDI get added to 1000Base-T back around 1980, so it first showed up there. there wasn't 10base-t in 1980, never mind 1000b-t. Some newer hubs, switches, and routers have auto-MDI, including 10Base-T and 100Base-T. nearly all newer switches and routers do. hubs are obsolete. I remember having to use crossover cables in the 80's, maybe into the 90's, but not since. 90s sure, but not the 80s, which predated twisted pair. |
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
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#38
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
On 9/18/19 2:35 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
Mark Lloyd wrote: Andy Burns wrote: For most home networks the router is most likely the DHCP server While your DHCP server is usually run on the same hardware as the router, is doesn't have to be that way. What percentage of homes would you estimate have the DHCP server on a device /other/ than the router their ISP sent them? Very few, which has nothing to do with the statement I made earlier. -- 97 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Christians have been the most intolerant of men." -- Voltaire (1694-1778) |
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
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#41
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
On 9/18/19 4:53 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
[snip] That suggestion is incomplete without also pointing out that no DHCP server will be available, so assigning IP addresses and network masks becomes a manual task. Also, it might not be safe to assume Auto-MDI negotiation, meaning digging up a crossover cable, so a better recommendation would be to use a cheap switch, where cheap means unmanaged, but then we're back to talking about the switch that comes as part of the router package. Or a separate switch. Also, a router could be operated with no WAN connection so it can't act as a router. -- 97 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Christians have been the most intolerant of men." -- Voltaire (1694-1778) |
#42
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
On 9/18/19 6:10 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
Most home users don't even have a router. They just use the RJ45 ports and wifi from the cable modem. If it has wireless (or more than 1 LAN port), it contains a router (often under the control of your ISP). A separate router gives you more control of what's supposed to be YOUR network. -- 97 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Christians have been the most intolerant of men." -- Voltaire (1694-1778) |
#43
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
On 9/18/19 6:41 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , VanguardLH wrote: ...Most home users don't even have a router. They just use the RJ45 ports and wifi from the cable modem. which is a router. Although the original statement (Most home users don't even have a router.) is usually true. They don't have a router. The ISP does. You can buy combination devices, but too many people prefer "easier" to "better". -- 97 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Christians have been the most intolerant of men." -- Voltaire (1694-1778) |
#44
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote: ...Most home users don't even have a router. They just use the RJ45 ports and wifi from the cable modem. which is a router. Although the original statement (Most home users don't even have a router.) is usually true. it's almost always false. They don't have a router. The ISP does. both do. the cable modem inside the customer's home is the router. the isp also has routers, far more capable ones. You can buy combination devices, but too many people prefer "easier" to "better". a cablemodem is a combo device. |
#45
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Troubleshooting Enet-attached device
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:17:34 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
The Linksys BEFSR41 10/100 router that I got almost 2 decades ago (came out in 1999) doesn't need crossover cables. http://downloads.linksys.com/downloa...U_V10_DS_A.pdf "Automatically Detects Straight or Cross-over Cable" I also had a BEFSR41 back then, except it was a US version vs EU. No Auto-MDI for me. Mine had a slide switch on the rear to select straight or crossover. I tossed what crossover cables I had a very long time ago. Same here. If I need to connect two devices, I use a switch. Didn't even need them with hubs. With what? Hubs? ;-) |
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