Vacuum Cleaner

On 8/25/2019 4:21 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
snip

M Coolermaster CM690 II case has what they called an X Bay built into
the top It is a slanted ramp with SSD connectors at the lower end It is
a hot Swap bay and you can plug or unplug SSDs at any time.
I have about 5 12 GB samsung and Kingston SSDs on which I have installed

Windows 10 insider
Windows 7
Linux Mint
MX Linux
ZenialPup 7.5

So I just slide in whatever OS I want and boot into that drive.
Best thing since sliced bread, They still make that case 10 years later
but sadly have not retained that feature.

Rene

Nice!

On 2019-09-14 5:55 p.m., Mike S wrote:
On 8/25/2019 4:21 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
snip

M Coolermaster CM690 II case has what they called an X Bay built into
the top It is a slanted ramp with SSD connectors at the lower end It
is a hot Swap bay and you can plug or unplug SSDs at any time.
I have about 5 12 GB samsung and Kingston SSDs on which I have installed

Windows 10 insider
Windows 7
Linux Mint
MX Linux
ZenialPup 7.5

So I just slide in whatever OS I want and boot into that drive.
Best thing since sliced bread, They still make that case 10 years
later but sadly have not retained that feature.

Rene

Nice!

Looked again and it seems they put that feature back in. it may be calld
a CM 692 now.

Rene

On 8/24/19 5:15 PM, Cleaner Advise wrote:
Looking for a vacuum cleaner to clean my machine from inside.Â* Less
aggressive solution please as I don't want the cables to be sucked away
and ruin my machine!!.

Go easy on it. I once blew compressed air, the board threw a static bolt
and the rest wasn't worth recycling

Next time I try the 3M dielectric fluid in my 3000 psi presure washer

--
Artificial-Stupidity will never be competitive

In message , Mike S
writes:
On 8/25/2019 4:21 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
snip
M Coolermaster CM690 II case has what they called an X Bay built
into the top It is a slanted ramp with SSD connectors at the lower
end It is a hot Swap bay and you can plug or unplug SSDs at any time.

What are "SSD connectors" - are they different to SATA (3 or whatever)?

How do you know when it is safe to "hot Swap"? Presumably never for the
one with the OS on it.

I have about 5 12 GB samsung and Kingston SSDs on which I have installed
Windows 10 insider
Windows 7
Linux Mint
MX Linux
ZenialPup 7.5
So I just slide in whatever OS I want and boot into that drive.
Best thing since sliced bread, They still make that case 10 years
later but sadly have not retained that feature.
Rene

Nice!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"What happens if I press this button?" "I wouldn't ..." (pinggg!) "Oh!" "What
happened?" "A sign lit up, saying `please do not press this button
again'!"(s1f2)

In message , Paul
writes:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 25/08/2019 15.39, Mayayana wrote:
"Carlos E.R." wrote

|
| Some do have filters or grids. You just have to pay more.
| Antec, for instance.
|

Yes, so says Paul. I wasn't aware of that. I usually
pay $20 for a simple tin (or sheet steel?) case. I don't
need anything that looks like a Klingon dashboard
so I've never looked at the expensive boxes.
They have other advantages. Holes for more fans, several hard disk
trays, cushioned for reduced vibration (the vibration from one hard disk
head has been known to transmit to a nearby hard disk causing it more
read errors via positioning head errors because of the vibration at the
proper frequency). Double sheet sides, also to reduce sound transmission.
Filtered air intakes I have seen in ruggerized computer cases
intended
for industrial environments. Imagine a machine shop, where the dust can
be metallic particles! Some of those boxes you can put on the floor and
jump over them, safely.

You pay the money, for the side-mount disk trays.
That's the bit that makes it worthwhile. So
easy to change drives. I'm not looking for fancy metal
bits particularly.
[]
Yes, swing-out bits do make life a lot easier, if you're into hardware -
drive bays that don't need screws, hinge-down motherboard ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"What happens if I press this button?" "I wouldn't ..." (pinggg!) "Oh!" "What
happened?" "A sign lit up, saying `please do not press this button
again'!"(s1f2)

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mike S writes:
On 8/25/2019 4:21 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
snip
M Coolermaster CM690 II case has what they called an X Bay built
into the top It is a slanted ramp with SSD connectors at the lower
end It is a hot Swap bay and you can plug or unplug SSDs at any time.

What are "SSD connectors" - are they different to SATA (3 or whatever)?

How do you know when it is safe to "hot Swap"? Presumably never for the
one with the OS on it.

When you tried to "Safely Remove" C: , what happened ?

On Linux, if you tried that (dismount slash), it
would probably tell you it could not dismount because a file
was busy. And Windows should be doing the same
thing, via the pagefile that is "busy". And
there will be other files open, such as
Windows.edb.

I think it would be cool, if the status LED
on the SATA power cable was wired up, but
I don't think anyone has seen one of those
to know how it behaves. Maybe the status LED
would tell us if the device was ready for
removal. We'll never know, since that pin is
never wired up properly to see.

That function would be on Pin 11 of the power
cable, and notice it has more than one function.
That pin functions as an "input strap" at powerup.
If it's grounded, then there is no staggered spin.
If it floated (like if a LED and resistor to +5
were used), then staggered spin would likely result.

https://pinoutguide.com/Power/sata-power_pinout.shtml

At least it's not like Pin 3, where on some
very recently produced drives, the drive won't
spin at all because Pin 3 tells it to "PWDIS".
3.5" drives don't need 3.3V, and an extension cable
not having 3.3V wired, allows such scummy drives
to spin up. So if you use a Molex four pin to SATA
adapter power cable, those drives will work properly.

The SATA power connector is trickier than it looks.
These are server backplane functions that aren't used on
desktops.

And the pins labeled "precharge", are part of what
makes hotswap practical. The length of those pins,
and a tolerance analysis of the connector capture,
helps ensure a negative potential never shows up
on any data pins (which could blow them out).
On a server backplane, the data and power are
one connector shell, and the connectors halves
make contact at the same time. The connector
analysis applies to the whole thing, when you hotswap
(slide in) a drive into a server backplane.

Paul

On 15/09/2019 09.06, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mike S writes:
On 8/25/2019 4:21 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
snip
Â*M Coolermaster CM690 II case has what they called an X Bay built
intoÂ* the top It is a slanted ramp with SSD connectors at the lower
end It isÂ* a hot Swap bay and you can plug or unplug SSDs at any time.

What are "SSD connectors" - are they different to SATA (3 or whatever)?

How do you know when it is safe to "hot Swap"? Presumably never for the
one with the OS on it.

Linux answer:

You can never hot swap the disk with the OS. However, if it is a RAID,
you may replace one disk hot.

Hot swaping any mounted disk creates havoc, anyway.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2019-09-15 2:06 a.m., J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mike S writes:
On 8/25/2019 4:21 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
snip
Â*M Coolermaster CM690 II case has what they called an X Bay built
intoÂ* the top It is a slanted ramp with SSD connectors at the lower
end It isÂ* a hot Swap bay and you can plug or unplug SSDs at any time.

What are "SSD connectors" - are they different to SATA (3 or whatever)?

How do you know when it is safe to "hot Swap"? Presumably never for the
one with the OS on it.

I have about 5 12 GB samsung and Kingston SSDs on which I have installed
Â*Windows 10 insider
Windows 7
Linux Mint
MX Linux
ZenialPup 7.5
Â*So I just slide in whatever OS I want and boot into that drive.
Best thing since sliced bread, They still make that case 10 years
laterÂ* but sadly have not retained that feature.
Â*Rene

Nice!

Sorry, I should have said *sata connectors* You can plug in HDDs or
SDDs, Seeing I always use SSDs I guess I automaticaly said SSD.
I can hotswap any time, And No I never Swap the Main Windows OS, it
lives on an M.2 NVMe drive permanently on the M/B.

Rene

On 2019-09-15 8:51 a.m., Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 15/09/2019 09.06, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mike S writes:
On 8/25/2019 4:21 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
snip
Â*M Coolermaster CM690 II case has what they called an X Bay built
intoÂ* the top It is a slanted ramp with SSD connectors at the lower
end It isÂ* a hot Swap bay and you can plug or unplug SSDs at any time.

What are "SSD connectors" - are they different to SATA (3 or whatever)?

How do you know when it is safe to "hot Swap"? Presumably never for the
one with the OS on it.

Linux answer:

You can never hot swap the disk with the OS. However, if it is a RAID,
you may replace one disk hot.

Hot swaping any mounted disk creates havoc, anyway.


No, as I mentioned I never swap c,
Its on an M.@ on the M/B.
I swap the Windows Insider, Windows 7 and 2 or 3 Linus OS,s but usually
when I shut down since I have to reboot into the new OS anyway.

Rene

On 2019-09-15 7:59 a.m., Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mike S writes:
On 8/25/2019 4:21 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
snip
Â*M Coolermaster CM690 II case has what they called an X Bay built
intoÂ* the top It is a slanted ramp with SSD connectors at the lower
end It isÂ* a hot Swap bay and you can plug or unplug SSDs at any time.

What are "SSD connectors" - are they different to SATA (3 or whatever)?

How do you know when it is safe to "hot Swap"? Presumably never for
the one with the OS on it.

When you tried to "Safely Remove" C: , what happened ?

On Linux, if you tried that (dismount slash), it
would probably tell you it could not dismount because a file
was busy. And Windows should be doing the same
thing, via the pagefile that is "busy". And
there will be other files open, such as
Windows.edb.

I think it would be cool, if the status LED
on the SATA power cable was wired up, but
I don't think anyone has seen one of those
to know how it behaves. Maybe the status LED
would tell us if the device was ready for
removal. We'll never know, since that pin is
never wired up properly to see.

That function would be on Pin 11 of the power
cable, and notice it has more than one function.
That pin functions as an "input strap" at powerup.
If it's grounded, then there is no staggered spin.
If it floated (like if a LED and resistor to +5
were used), then staggered spin would likely result.

https://pinoutguide.com/Power/sata-power_pinout.shtml

At least it's not like Pin 3, where on some
very recently produced drives, the drive won't
spin at all because Pin 3 tells it to "PWDIS".
3.5" drives don't need 3.3V, and an extension cable
not having 3.3V wired, allows such scummy drives
to spin up. So if you use a Molex four pin to SATA
adapter power cable, those drives will work properly.

The SATA power connector is trickier than it looks.
These are server backplane functions that aren't used on
desktops.

And the pins labeled "precharge", are part of what
makes hotswap practical. The length of those pins,
and a tolerance analysis of the connector capture,
helps ensure a negative potential never shows up
on any data pins (which could blow them out).
On a server backplane, the data and power are
one connector shell, and the connectors halves
make contact at the same time. The connector
analysis applies to the whole thing, when you hotswap
(slide in) a drive into a server backplane.

Â*Â* Paul

Paul, your question about "Safely remove C" has Piqued my interest and I
will do the experiment and report after lunch.

Rene

On 2019-09-15 11:35 a.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2019-09-15 7:59 a.m., Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mike S
writes:
On 8/25/2019 4:21 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
snip
Â*M Coolermaster CM690 II case has what they called an X Bay built
intoÂ* the top It is a slanted ramp with SSD connectors at the lower
end It isÂ* a hot Swap bay and you can plug or unplug SSDs at any time.

What are "SSD connectors" - are they different to SATA (3 or whatever)?

How do you know when it is safe to "hot Swap"? Presumably never for
the one with the OS on it.

When you tried to "Safely Remove" C: , what happened ?

On Linux, if you tried that (dismount slash), it
would probably tell you it could not dismount because a file
was busy. And Windows should be doing the same
thing, via the pagefile that is "busy". And
there will be other files open, such as
Windows.edb.

I think it would be cool, if the status LED
on the SATA power cable was wired up, but
I don't think anyone has seen one of those
to know how it behaves. Maybe the status LED
would tell us if the device was ready for
removal. We'll never know, since that pin is
never wired up properly to see.

That function would be on Pin 11 of the power
cable, and notice it has more than one function.
That pin functions as an "input strap" at powerup.
If it's grounded, then there is no staggered spin.
If it floated (like if a LED and resistor to +5
were used), then staggered spin would likely result.

https://pinoutguide.com/Power/sata-power_pinout.shtml

At least it's not like Pin 3, where on some
very recently produced drives, the drive won't
spin at all because Pin 3 tells it to "PWDIS".
3.5" drives don't need 3.3V, and an extension cable
not having 3.3V wired, allows such scummy drives
to spin up. So if you use a Molex four pin to SATA
adapter power cable, those drives will work properly.

The SATA power connector is trickier than it looks.
These are server backplane functions that aren't used on
desktops.

And the pins labeled "precharge", are part of what
makes hotswap practical. The length of those pins,
and a tolerance analysis of the connector capture,
helps ensure a negative potential never shows up
on any data pins (which could blow them out).
On a server backplane, the data and power are
one connector shell, and the connectors halves
make contact at the same time. The connector
analysis applies to the whole thing, when you hotswap
(slide in) a drive into a server backplane.

Â*Â*Â* Paul

Paul, your question about "Safely remove C" has Piqued my interest and I
will do the experiment and report after lunch.

Rene



OK, Did the deed as promised and here is how it went, blow by blow.

Instead of fooling with my Main C drive I took my Windows 10 insider 120
GB drive and plugged it into the Hot-swap X bay, Then rebooted into
windows 10 Insider.

Windows insider did a couple small updates and everything was fine, Once
it had settled down I unplugged the drive from the X bay

In about 10 seconds I got a black screen but about 5 Icons remained on
the screen out of the original 20, The mouse cursor was still active but
would do nothing.

after about 5 minutes nothing was happening so I plugged the Insider 10
disk back into the X bay, A light green screen came up with the unhappy
sideways face and the message that something wrong had happened and it
would have to gather information to repair it, Then it started
incrementing the percentage figures from 0 to 100%, this took about 3
minutes after which it just sat there.

I waited for about 5 minutes but nothing further was happening so I
rebooted into Insider 10 and to my surprise Windows 10 Insider came up
as normal as you like and everything worked.

About 1 minute later a message came up in the notification area saying

"Could you please tell us what was happening when Windows unexpectedly
stopped working" (may not be exact words).

I let it run for about 30 minutes and tried various programs and tasks
and all seems well

A very interesting experiment, I'm glad Paul brought it up.

It would seem that windows was able to do a self repair after losing
itself ...

Rene

On 15/09/2019 20.20, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2019-09-15 11:35 a.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2019-09-15 7:59 a.m., Paul wrote:

....

Â*OK, Did the deed as promised and here is how it went, blow by blow.

Instead of fooling with my Main C drive I took my Windows 10 insider 120
GB drive and plugged it into the Hot-swap X bay, Then rebooted into
windows 10 Insider.

Windows insider did a couple small updates and everything was fine, Once
it had settled down I unplugged the drive from the X bay

In about 10 seconds I got a black screen but about 5 Icons remained on
the screen out of the original 20, The mouse cursor was still active but
would do nothing.

after about 5 minutes nothing was happening so I plugged the Insider 10
disk back into the X bay, A light green screen came up with the unhappy
sideways face and the message that something wrong had happened and it
would have to gather information to repair it, Then it started
incrementing the percentage figures from 0 to 100%, this took about 3
minutes after which it just sat there.

I waited for about 5 minutes but nothing further was happening so I
rebooted into Insider 10 and to my surprise Windows 10 Insider came up
as normal as you like and everything worked.

About 1 minute later a message came up in the notification area saying

"Could you please tell us what was happening when Windows unexpectedly
stopped working" (may not be exact words).

I let it run for about 30 minutes and tried various programs and tasks
and all seems well

A very interesting experiment, I'm glad Paul brought it up.

Â*It would seem that windows was able to do a self repair after losing
itself ...

Basically and fsck is all that is needed.


I have seen Linux in a similar situation (/home remained on). Messages
appeared saying that this or that program could not be started (in the
log, which was working, but was not written). Lot of entries about
failed disk. A request to halt of reboot failed. Poweroff, reseat the
cables, restart as if nothing had happened.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 15/09/2019 20.20, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2019-09-15 11:35 a.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2019-09-15 7:59 a.m., Paul wrote:

...

OK, Did the deed as promised and here is how it went, blow by blow.

Instead of fooling with my Main C drive I took my Windows 10 insider 120
GB drive and plugged it into the Hot-swap X bay, Then rebooted into
windows 10 Insider.

Windows insider did a couple small updates and everything was fine, Once
it had settled down I unplugged the drive from the X bay

In about 10 seconds I got a black screen but about 5 Icons remained on
the screen out of the original 20, The mouse cursor was still active but
would do nothing.

after about 5 minutes nothing was happening so I plugged the Insider 10
disk back into the X bay, A light green screen came up with the unhappy
sideways face and the message that something wrong had happened and it
would have to gather information to repair it, Then it started
incrementing the percentage figures from 0 to 100%, this took about 3
minutes after which it just sat there.

I waited for about 5 minutes but nothing further was happening so I
rebooted into Insider 10 and to my surprise Windows 10 Insider came up
as normal as you like and everything worked.

About 1 minute later a message came up in the notification area saying

"Could you please tell us what was happening when Windows unexpectedly
stopped working" (may not be exact words).

I let it run for about 30 minutes and tried various programs and tasks
and all seems well

A very interesting experiment, I'm glad Paul brought it up.

It would seem that windows was able to do a self repair after losing
itself ...

Basically and fsck is all that is needed.


I have seen Linux in a similar situation (/home remained on). Messages
appeared saying that this or that program could not be started (in the
log, which was working, but was not written). Lot of entries about
failed disk. A request to halt of reboot failed. Poweroff, reseat the
cables, restart as if nothing had happened.

The file system is journaled, which helps.

The Registry is journaled as well.

Really a surprise it didn't take damage though.

A "Safely Remove" of C: might be on offer, if you
enabled HotPlug in the BIOS for each SATA port, which
would cover the experimental port being tested. A
request to "Safely Remove", at some point, should be
denied. With HotPlug enabled, the Safely Remove icon
would have the SATA storage devices in the list,
including C: . But attempts to remove C: (safely)
should fail, as the pagefile is busy.

Of course you can rip the drive out of the port.
That's just a matter of physical strength.

The Windows-To-Go method (OS on USB stick), can
survive being unplugged. You plug it back in, it
continues working. The max time is around a minute
or so (eventually it has to time out).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_to_go

"As a safety measure designed to prevent data loss,
Windows pauses the entire system if the USB drive is
removed, and resumes operation immediately when the
drive is inserted within 60 seconds of removal. If
the drive is not inserted in that time-frame, the
computer shuts down to prevent possible confidential
or sensitive information being displayed on the screen
or stored in RAM."

That time constant just happens to be the CSRSS time constant.
There are two services on Windows, if they "disappear" for
any reason, the OS must shut down 60 seconds later. There was
an early malware related to tripping that, where you'd boot
the system, and that 60 second time constant determined how
long you'd have before it shut down again.

The article doesn't mention plugging the USB stick
back into a different USB port, which would likely be
fatal.

Paul

On 15/09/2019 21.12, Paul wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 15/09/2019 20.20, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2019-09-15 11:35 a.m., Rene Lamontagne wrote:
On 2019-09-15 7:59 a.m., Paul wrote:

...

Â*OK, Did the deed as promised and here is how it went, blow by blow.

Instead of fooling with my Main C drive I took my Windows 10 insider 120
GB drive and plugged it into the Hot-swap X bay, Then rebooted into
windows 10 Insider.

Windows insider did a couple small updates and everything was fine, Once
it had settled down I unplugged the drive from the X bay

In about 10 seconds I got a black screen but about 5 Icons remained on
the screen out of the original 20, The mouse cursor was still active but
would do nothing.

after about 5 minutes nothing was happening so I plugged the Insider 10
disk back into the X bay, A light green screen came up with the unhappy
sideways face and the message that something wrong had happened and it
would have to gather information to repair it, Then it started
incrementing the percentage figures from 0 to 100%, this took about 3
minutes after which it just sat there.

I waited for about 5 minutes but nothing further was happening so I
rebooted into Insider 10 and to my surprise Windows 10 Insider came up
as normal as you like and everything worked.

About 1 minute later a message came up in the notification area saying

"Could you please tell us what was happening when Windows unexpectedly
stopped working" (may not be exact words).

I let it run for about 30 minutes and tried various programs and tasks
and all seems well

A very interesting experiment, I'm glad Paul brought it up.

Â*It would seem that windows was able to do a self repair after losing
itself ...

Basically and fsck is all that is needed.


I have seen Linux in a similar situation (/home remained on). Messages
appeared saying that this or that program could not be started (in the
log, which was working, but was not written). Lot of entries about
failed disk. A request to halt of reboot failed. Poweroff, reseat the
cables, restart as if nothing had happened.

The file system is journaled, which helps.

The Registry is journaled as well.

Really a surprise it didn't take damage though.

Not really: it is the same as with a sudden power failure. Home
computers are designed for that, few people have UPS installed.


A "Safely Remove" of C: might be on offer, if you
enabled HotPlug in the BIOS for each SATA port, which
would cover the experimental port being tested. A
request to "Safely Remove", at some point, should be
denied. With HotPlug enabled, the Safely Remove icon
would have the SATA storage devices in the list,
including C: . But attempts to remove C: (safely)
should fail, as the pagefile is busy.

Of course you can rip the drive out of the port.
That's just a matter of physical strength.

The Windows-To-Go method (OS on USB stick), can
survive being unplugged. You plug it back in, it
continues working. The max time is around a minute
or so (eventually it has to time out).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_to_go

Â*Â* "As a safety measure designed to prevent data loss,
Â*Â*Â* Windows pauses the entire system if the USB drive is
Â*Â*Â* removed, and resumes operation immediately when the
Â*Â*Â* drive is inserted within 60 seconds of removal. If
Â*Â*Â* the drive is not inserted in that time-frame, the
Â*Â*Â* computer shuts down to prevent possible confidential
Â*Â*Â* or sensitive information being displayed on the screen
Â*Â*Â* or stored in RAM."

Interesting! :-)


That time constant just happens to be the CSRSS time constant.
There are two services on Windows, if they "disappear" for
any reason, the OS must shut down 60 seconds later. There was
an early malware related to tripping that, where you'd boot
the system, and that 60 second time constant determined how
long you'd have before it shut down again.

The article doesn't mention plugging the USB stick
back into a different USB port, which would likely be
fatal.

Well... if the running OS can identify the stick as being the same one
that was on another port, why not? Of course, the access path is different.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

In message , Carlos E.R.
writes:
On 15/09/2019 09.06, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mike S writes:
On 8/25/2019 4:21 PM, Rene Lamontagne wrote:
snip
*M Coolermaster CM690 II case has what they called an X Bay built
into* the top It is a slanted ramp with SSD connectors at the lower
end It is* a hot Swap bay and you can plug or unplug SSDs at any time.

What are "SSD connectors" - are they different to SATA (3 or whatever)?

How do you know when it is safe to "hot Swap"? Presumably never for the
one with the OS on it.

Linux answer:

You can never hot swap the disk with the OS. However, if it is a RAID,
you may replace one disk hot.

Hot swaping any mounted disk creates havoc, anyway.

Thanks, you answered my second question (with the answer I expected).

The other part - is there such a thing as an "SSD connector", or did
Rene just mean SATA connectors?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The desire to remain private and/or anonymous used to be a core British value,
but in recent times it has been treated with suspicion - an unfortunate by-
product of the widespread desire for fame. - Chris Middleton,
Computing 6 September 2011