Why Linux On Desktop Failed: A Discussion With Mark Shuttleworth

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 14:35:01 -0400, Paul vomited this verbiage that I
considered to be worthy of my attention for one of a variety of possible
reasons:


There is NVENC and NVDEC.

If you attempted to build FFMPEG from source,
you'd have noticed this.


NVENC/NVDEC are not codecs. They are simply the hardware implementations
of certain codecs.

Which codecs they implement depends on the particular Nvidia chip.

On 9/13/2019 7:04 AM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 8:15 p.m., nospam wrote:
In article , Rabid Rogue
wrote:

Why Linux On Desktop Failed: A Discussion With Mark Shuttleworth

Let me know when there's a transcript available; I don't 'do' video
interviews.

That recent Shuttleworth interview on Kubernetes had a transcript.

What's the matter, can't you get Linux to play the video?
Too bad for you.

That's an unfair question. To be honest, Linux plays more video formats
out of the box than any other operating system even if VLC isn't
pre-installed.

no it definitely does not.

This is a clear lie on your part and I imagine that it comes from your
general and habitual ignorance. Install Linux Mint and it will play
everything; install something like Trisquel which is fully free and it
might not play everything, but it will install free codecs that will.

If it doesn't play the video, it gives you the option to
install the codec which WILL play it.

so much for more video formats, and that's the same for other oses.

Windows 10 will not play h.265 out of the box unless you _purchase_ the
codec but I imagine you didn't know that. You can download VLC and get
the same functionality but that applies to Linux as well. Even without
VLC though, the bundled video players like Dragon or Totem will
automatically download the codecs whereas something like Movies & TV or
Windows Media Player will only play sound and fart when it comes to
playing the video.


That may depend on what country you are in.
In the U.S. I've tried various distros and Dragon and Totem won't
download what you need.
On the other hand, OpenSuse has a one-click install of VLC and it does
download the libs and codecs. Of course OpenSuse is out of Germany so
it may well do it properly. The U.S. versions of video players have the
same problem... due to some kind of rights.

On 9/13/2019 7:23 AM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 11:19 p.m., AnonLinuxUser wrote:
On 9/12/2019 6:13 PM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 5:31 p.m., Charlie Tuna wrote:
In article ,
lid says...

Wingnut wrote:
Why Linux On Desktop Failed: A Discussion With Mark Shuttleworth

Let me know when there's a transcript available; I don't 'do' video
interviews.

That recent Shuttleworth interview on Kubernetes had a transcript.

What's the matter, can't you get Linux to play the video?
Too bad for you.

That's an unfair question. To be honest, Linux plays more video formats
out of the box than any other operating system even if VLC isn't
pre-installed. If it doesn't play the video, it gives you the option to
install the codec which WILL play it.


I've ran into that particular situation, and it never did say what was
wrong or where to get the necessary libs or codecs.
OpenSuse has a one-click install of VLC that does work.

I used OpenSuse a few times and I believe that, out of the box, it only
includes software which is certified to be free. Even though most codecs
now have free versions which work quite well, it's quite possible that
OpenSuse, for some reason, doesn't make them available to the user
unless they add a repository here and there. It's not my favorite
distribution to say the least.


I suppose not. But just a little digging around on the net and I did
find the one-click-install fairly fast... which did work. Must be that
the digital rights thing is the road block for those in the U.S.

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:50:30 -0600, AnonLinuxUser wrote:

On 9/13/2019 7:23 AM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 11:19 p.m., AnonLinuxUser wrote:
On 9/12/2019 6:13 PM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 5:31 p.m., Charlie Tuna wrote:
In article ,
lid says...

Wingnut wrote:
Why Linux On Desktop Failed: A Discussion With Mark Shuttleworth

Let me know when there's a transcript available; I don't 'do' video
interviews.

That recent Shuttleworth interview on Kubernetes had a transcript.

What's the matter, can't you get Linux to play the video?
Too bad for you.

That's an unfair question. To be honest, Linux plays more video formats
out of the box than any other operating system even if VLC isn't
pre-installed. If it doesn't play the video, it gives you the option to
install the codec which WILL play it.


I've ran into that particular situation, and it never did say what was
wrong or where to get the necessary libs or codecs.
OpenSuse has a one-click install of VLC that does work.

I used OpenSuse a few times and I believe that, out of the box, it only
includes software which is certified to be free. Even though most codecs
now have free versions which work quite well, it's quite possible that
OpenSuse, for some reason, doesn't make them available to the user
unless they add a repository here and there. It's not my favorite
distribution to say the least.


I suppose not. But just a little digging around on the net and I did
find the one-click-install fairly fast... which did work. Must be that
the digital rights thing is the road block for those in the U.S.

SuSE used to have a checkbox that you could tick and it would install
all the "extra stuff", like Nvidia drivers, CODECS and so forth.

It's been years since I have used Linux so things might have changed.

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 20:02:37 -0400, TheRealFlatfish wrote:

On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 17:50:30 -0600, AnonLinuxUser wrote:

On 9/13/2019 7:23 AM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 11:19 p.m., AnonLinuxUser wrote:
On 9/12/2019 6:13 PM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 5:31 p.m., Charlie Tuna wrote:
In article ,
lid says...

Wingnut wrote:
Why Linux On Desktop Failed: A Discussion With Mark Shuttleworth

Let me know when there's a transcript available; I don't 'do' video
interviews.

That recent Shuttleworth interview on Kubernetes had a transcript.

What's the matter, can't you get Linux to play the video?
Too bad for you.

That's an unfair question. To be honest, Linux plays more video formats
out of the box than any other operating system even if VLC isn't
pre-installed. If it doesn't play the video, it gives you the option to
install the codec which WILL play it.


I've ran into that particular situation, and it never did say what was
wrong or where to get the necessary libs or codecs.
OpenSuse has a one-click install of VLC that does work.

I used OpenSuse a few times and I believe that, out of the box, it only
includes software which is certified to be free. Even though most codecs
now have free versions which work quite well, it's quite possible that
OpenSuse, for some reason, doesn't make them available to the user
unless they add a repository here and there. It's not my favorite
distribution to say the least.


I suppose not. But just a little digging around on the net and I did
find the one-click-install fairly fast... which did work. Must be that
the digital rights thing is the road block for those in the U.S.

SuSE used to have a checkbox that you could tick and it would install
all the "extra stuff", like Nvidia drivers, CODECS and so forth.

It's been years since I have used Linux so things might have changed.

Isn't neat how these assholes are destroying the small bit left of
Usenet. Dig the xposting crap.

alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,alt.comp.os.wi ndows-10

Plenty of linux groups around, but why pass up a chance to destroy
another useful group like Win 10? Right?

On 2019-09-13 7:45 p.m., AnonLinuxUser wrote:
On 9/13/2019 7:04 AM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 8:15 p.m., nospam wrote:
In article , Rabid Rogue
wrote:

Why Linux On Desktop Failed: A Discussion With Mark Shuttleworth

Let me know when there's a transcript available; I don't 'do' video
interviews.

That recent Shuttleworth interview on Kubernetes had a transcript.

What's the matter, can't you get Linux to play the video?
Too bad for you.

That's an unfair question. To be honest, Linux plays more video formats
out of the box than any other operating system even if VLC isn't
pre-installed.

no it definitely does not.

This is a clear lie on your part and I imagine that it comes from your
general and habitual ignorance. Install Linux Mint and it will play
everything; install something like Trisquel which is fully free and it
might not play everything, but it will install free codecs that will.

If it doesn't play the video, it gives you the option to
install the codec which WILL play it.

so much for more video formats, and that's the same for other oses.

Windows 10 will not play h.265 out of the box unless you _purchase_ the
codec but I imagine you didn't know that. You can download VLC and get
the same functionality but that applies to Linux as well. Even without
VLC though, the bundled video players like Dragon or Totem will
automatically download the codecs whereas something like Movies & TV or
Windows Media Player will only play sound and fart when it comes to
playing the video.


That may depend on what country you are in.
In the U.S. I've tried various distros and Dragon and Totem won't
download what you need.
On the other hand, OpenSuse has a one-click install of VLC and it does
download the libs and codecs.Â* Of course OpenSuse is out of Germany so
it may well do it properly.Â* The U.S. versions of video players have the
same problem... due to some kind of rights.

I doubt that anyone who installs Linux on their own actually care that
they might be breaking the law by installing an MP3 codec. To be honest,
I don't think Ubuntu should even offer that warning anymore considering
support for those codecs is no longer external but included in ffmpeg
like I mentioned.


--
Your friendly neighborhood Rabid Rogue

Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-13 7:45 p.m., AnonLinuxUser wrote:
On 9/13/2019 7:04 AM, Rabid Rogue wrote:
On 2019-09-12 8:15 p.m., nospam wrote:
In article , Rabid Rogue
wrote:

Why Linux On Desktop Failed: A Discussion With Mark Shuttleworth
Let me know when there's a transcript available; I don't 'do' video
interviews.

That recent Shuttleworth interview on Kubernetes had a transcript.
What's the matter, can't you get Linux to play the video?
Too bad for you.
That's an unfair question. To be honest, Linux plays more video formats
out of the box than any other operating system even if VLC isn't
pre-installed.
no it definitely does not.
This is a clear lie on your part and I imagine that it comes from your
general and habitual ignorance. Install Linux Mint and it will play
everything; install something like Trisquel which is fully free and it
might not play everything, but it will install free codecs that will.

If it doesn't play the video, it gives you the option to
install the codec which WILL play it.
so much for more video formats, and that's the same for other oses.
Windows 10 will not play h.265 out of the box unless you _purchase_ the
codec but I imagine you didn't know that. You can download VLC and get
the same functionality but that applies to Linux as well. Even without
VLC though, the bundled video players like Dragon or Totem will
automatically download the codecs whereas something like Movies & TV or
Windows Media Player will only play sound and fart when it comes to
playing the video.

That may depend on what country you are in.
In the U.S. I've tried various distros and Dragon and Totem won't
download what you need.
On the other hand, OpenSuse has a one-click install of VLC and it does
download the libs and codecs. Of course OpenSuse is out of Germany so
it may well do it properly. The U.S. versions of video players have the
same problem... due to some kind of rights.

I doubt that anyone who installs Linux on their own actually care that
they might be breaking the law by installing an MP3 codec. To be honest,
I don't think Ubuntu should even offer that warning anymore considering
support for those codecs is no longer external but included in ffmpeg
like I mentioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3#Li...nd_legislation

"became patent-free in the United States on 16 April 2017"

"As a result, many free and open-source software projects, such
as the Fedora operating system, have decided to start shipping
MP3 support by default, and users will no longer have to resort
to installing unofficial packages maintained by third party
software repositories for MP3 playback or encoding."

Paul

On 9/12/19 12:36 PM, Mr. Hand wrote:
Maybe the solution is for someone like Red Hat to get behind Wine
and make Wine work right for all Windows programs. But that
maybe bad too as programmers would never port to Linux.
Personally I feel that if an application is a must have, like
PhotoShop, Quicken etc then the user should probably have chosen the
platform first based upon that.

And that is almost always what happens 99% of the time with my
customers, which is why they are on Windows.

I love it when a Mac customer brags that he is Microsoft free
and shows me Parallels running Windows. Uhhh. Microsoft got
paid twice: once for Parallels and once for Windows. And your
are certainly not M$ free by any definition.

I also find it annoying when a customer tells me he is run
Mac and I take an hour look up how to do what he wants on
a Mac, then get there and he fires up his Mac and it is
running Windows. For some reason they think that is M$
free too. Annoying.


As for wine, I have never been much of a wine fan, except a fine
Chianti. Linux development should stay focused on developing Linux
applications. IBM screwed the pooch trying to support Windows within
OS/2. Not exactly the same, but similar.
I know many will disagree, and that's alright.

I agree.

I think the solution is to pick out those deal killer apps and
somehow coax them to support Linux. Quick Books won't even
support Libre Office Calc spreadsheets. Its Excel or die.

Or come up with substitutes that are so, so much better that
folks can't do without them. So far, GnuCash as an example,
subs are only somewhat interchangeable. Nowhere near enough.
(Gnu Cash does not support inventor or payroll.)

Libreoffice is another example. Almost there but not quite.
I can't get folks to use it because it is just plane awkward.
Oh ya, good luck trying to mixing Landscape (as the first page) and
portrait pages together. You can do it, but it takes a
rocket scientist to do it. (I bitched. They "may" be doing
something about it, but it is like pulling teeth.)

The subs just have to be better and a lot better at that. So
far, not so much.

On 9/12/19 11:47 AM, Snit wrote:
On 9/12/19 10:14 AM, T wrote:
On 9/12/19 10:06 AM, chrisv wrote:
T wrote:

(snip)

What, you just copy and paste the same stuff that your wrote earlier?

Here's my response.




Your response is an eMail address?

He is saying people have no need for such amazingly specialized programs
as basic tax or personal accounting programs.





Every small business I come across used Quick Books.
It is not specialized. It is common. This is
why I can't put a single business on Linux Desktops.
Server are another matter.

Linux just does not run enough "common" software.
And it is a far better OS too.

On 9/12/19 11:50 AM, Snit wrote:
On 9/12/19 10:06 AM, chrisv wrote:
T wrote:

(snip)

What, you just copy and paste the same stuff that your wrote earlier?

Here's my response.




In short: you think for people who have amazingly simple needs, not even
using things as common and basic as tax and personal finance apps, or
other common programs, Linux is a fine choice.

That is you damning with faint praise.


Folk with these simple need might as well get a tablet.

On 9/13/19 7:11 PM, T wrote:
On 9/12/19 11:50 AM, Snit wrote:
On 9/12/19 10:06 AM, chrisv wrote:
T wrote:

(snip)

What, you just copy and paste the same stuff that your wrote earlier?

Here's my response.




In short: you think for people who have amazingly simple needs, not
even using things as common and basic as tax and personal finance
apps, or other common programs, Linux is a fine choice.

That is you damning with faint praise.

Folk with these simple need might as well get a tablet.

True enough. I have not worked much with the newer ones, but many are
pretty damned powerful.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 9/13/19 7:07 PM, T wrote:
On 9/12/19 11:47 AM, Snit wrote:
On 9/12/19 10:14 AM, T wrote:
On 9/12/19 10:06 AM, chrisv wrote:
T wrote:

(snip)

What, you just copy and paste the same stuff that your wrote earlier?

Here's my response.




Your response is an eMail address?

He is saying people have no need for such amazingly specialized
programs as basic tax or personal accounting programs.



Every small business I come across used Quick Books.
It is not specialized.Â* It is common.Â* This is
why I can't put a single business on Linux Desktops.
Server are another matter.

I used to work for Intuit supporting Quicken and TurboTax (or training
those who did). Yes, they and QuickBooks are very common.

Linux just does not run enough "common" software.
And it is a far better OS too.

It has its pros and cons. For my main desktop I prefer macOS, but there
are many places where Linux is a great choice. No argument here.


--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 9/13/19 7:22 PM, Snit wrote:
On 9/13/19 7:11 PM, T wrote:
On 9/12/19 11:50 AM, Snit wrote:
On 9/12/19 10:06 AM, chrisv wrote:
T wrote:

(snip)

What, you just copy and paste the same stuff that your wrote earlier?

Here's my response.




In short: you think for people who have amazingly simple needs, not
even using things as common and basic as tax and personal finance
apps, or other common programs, Linux is a fine choice.

That is you damning with faint praise.

Folk with these simple need might as well get a tablet.

True enough. I have not worked much with the newer ones, but many are
pretty damned powerful.


They have the reputation of being "toy" computers, but
they have come into their own right. They are
perfect for the eMail and surf only customers.

I have a customer that got a bunch of free ones for signing
up for a particular cell phone service. He finally let me
look up for him a decent Samsung (fastest I could find).
Now they are happy again. Chuckle, you get what you pay for.

I wish we could come up with a decent tablet running Fedora,
it would cut to zero all the spying.

On 9/13/19 7:24 PM, Snit wrote:
I used to work for Intuit supporting Quicken and TurboTax (or training those who did). Yes, they and QuickBooks are very common.

I used to work for Intuit supporting Quicken and TurboTax (or training those who did). Yes, they and QuickBooks are very common.

OH DUDE!!!

It has its pros and cons. For my main desktop I prefer macOS, but there
areÂ*manyÂ*placesÂ*whereÂ*LinuxÂ*isÂ*aÂ*greatÂ*cho ice.Â*NoÂ*argumentÂ*here.

Either one kicks Windows ass. But without the programs "here
is a quarter, go tell it to someone that cares". Mac has a
version of Quick Books, but it is bug riddled to death.

On 9/13/19 8:17 PM, T wrote:
On 9/13/19 7:24 PM, Snit wrote:
I used to work for Intuit supporting Quicken and TurboTax (or training
those who did). Yes, they and QuickBooks are very common.

I used to work for Intuit supporting Quicken and TurboTax (or training
those who did). Yes, they and QuickBooks are very common.

OH DUDE!!!

It has its pros and cons. For my main desktop I prefer macOS, but
there areÂ*manyÂ*placesÂ*whereÂ*LinuxÂ*isÂ*aÂ*greatÂ*cho ice.Â*NoÂ*argumentÂ*here.

Either one kicks Windows ass.Â* But without the programs "here
is a quarter, go tell it to someone that cares".Â* Mac has a
version of Quick Books, but it is bug riddled to death.


I never did much with QuickBooks, but I do know the Mac and Windows
versions of Quicken were very different. The Windows version had a lot
more features but also a very flaky data file that was insanely hard to
deal with when it went belly up. And it did that a lot.

Now that was back in 2000 and before... so things could have changed a
lot since then.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.