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#91
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Windows Live Mail
VanguardLH wrote:
"...winston‫" wrote: Having the full installer is always a good idea regardless of the version (2009, 2011, 2012). 2012 requires Win7 Sp1 and Win8x. 2011 requires Vista SP2 or Win7 SP1 - thus both should continue to be available. From a use and support perspective there really is no business value for MSFT to continue to host XP specific versions of their software. I'm assuming that "wlsetup-all.exe" means it's the installer that contains all componentns of Windows [Live] Essentials. They seem too big to contain only Windows Live Mail. 2009 wlsetup-all.exe = 134 MB 2011 wlsetup-all.exe = 214 MB (big jump there) 2012 wlsetup-all.exe = 130 MB Why the big jump in size for the 2011 installer? While I've repeatedly trialed WLM along with other e-mail clients, I've found WLM has problems and not to my liking regarding behaviors. However, I decided to download these in case I want them later or someone else wants one of them. I haven't bothered to [re]install them so I can look at the EULA to see if there would be a problem with uploading them to a well-known archival site, like oldversion.com. Movie Maker was not included in 2009. It was in 2011 as a stand-alone application and thereafter....2012 omitted Live Mesh with PhotoGallery/Movie Maker in a single package. Additionally code was added in 2011 for robustness and reliability for indexing and databases used by a variety of the suite's programs (Mail, Contacts, Calendar, Photo Gallery etc.) - 2009's indexing and databases were horrible and at times unreliable. As far as I know....distribution of MSFT property to another source (including hosting sites or personally managed) still requires their permission. I'm quite certain if one could ask the question, the answer would be 'No' -- ....winston msft mvp consumer apps |
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#92
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Windows Live Mail
"...winston‫" wrote:
BillW50 wrote: ""...winston?"" wrote in message ... [...] From a use and support perspective there really is no business value for MSFT to continue to host XP specific versions of their software. Really? Microsoft has no interest in cashing in on XP users? Why did it make business sense for Microsoft to continue to issue "OEM licensing for Windows for Workgroups 3.11 on embedded systems continued to be available until November 1, 2008" then? Windows 3.1x - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1x The ecosystem has changed...MSFT will never again be everything for everyone - two operating systems - current and past is the business model (this was clear and resounding when Win8.0 loses support and requires a mandatory upgrade to 8.1 or later). The accrual cost for supporting older out-of-mainstream/extended support operating systems is a function of the revenue receipts for the paid support. As XP use declines, so do both...eventually no longer providing any bottom line benefit. What was done with WfW3.11 is about as relevant as asking why GM continued to sell Oldsmobiles when few bought them. (Lol...those same olds-people were not much different than another declining population - desktop pc users like you and me) I suspect Microsoft didn't have numerous customers willing to pay for extended support (which is pricey). The only ones doing that were corporations that budgeted for support costs usually by buying a block of incident tickets and doling them out only if the company's own IT or helpdesk folks couldn't solve the problem (another expense to the company but cheaper than going outside for employee support). That a product is in extended support doesn't mean us users are going to fork out the high bucks to call them to get that extended support. For us end users, mainstream support for XP ended back in 2009. Saying that support for XP ends this April belies that support really ended 4 years ago. Us freeloaders appreciate getting the updates after that but we're certainly not paying Microsoft for it. That we continue to get bug fixes and security updates until the end of extended support is gravy to us. We're freeloading on Microsoft's willingness to provide those updates long after they know they aren't going to generate any revenue from incidents filed and paid for during the extended support period. Even after Microsoft drops extended support, you can certainly call Microsoft to get XP support if you're willing to pay the cost of them reallocating their personally into a special-interest support group just for yourself. Got a million or two? Tis cheaper to find outside support companies to give you that support but it's still pricey for a single user forking out of his own shallow pocket. Seems the ones that complain the most about Microsoft or any author dropping support have never ran their own business. What customers want does not necessarily equate into revenue. Goodwill is an expense. Look at the other software you have installed on your host. How many of them have authors willing to provide extended support even at extra cost when they decide to drop support on an old version of their product? We're used to support going dead on other products so why not with Microsoft? |
#93
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Windows Live Mail
Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Blue wrote: BillW50 wrote: Why you little lowlife liar! Typical. Bull****Bill has nothing significant to say, so he attacks the poster, making **** up. Plonk. Yep. Be careful when citing who insulted who first. From the hierarchy of posts, you were the first to insult Bill followed by others saying he was stupid because his experience with Tbird has been less than stellar. Seem Bill countered with insults as the result of being insulted, and you were among them. No, I'm not saying Bill is an exemplary post but neither are you. I'm not a cuddly responder, either, compelled to stroke the egos of others but if someone calls me stupid then I probably will retort just like you do. If you can't take **** then don't toss it. |
#94
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Windows Live Mail
On 3/6/14 12:39 PM, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Ken Springer wrote: BTS, did you not see my post where I have the freeze problem BillW50 is referring to? No, I don't remember that I did. My reason for participating in this discussion is because Bull****Bill said *everyone* has his problem. I replied, stating that *I* do not have this problem, ever. Then he started calling me names and calling me a liar for stating my experiences. Here's my first post about it: A follow up later in the day: If he were a nicer guy, I might invite him to my house to watch my computer for a day or two. Then he'd shut up. Your conduct has not been exemplary either. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 25.0 Thunderbird 24.3.0 |
#95
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Windows Live Mail
On 3/6/14 2:40 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
"...winston‫" wrote: BillW50 wrote: ""...winston?"" wrote in message ... [...] From a use and support perspective there really is no business value for MSFT to continue to host XP specific versions of their software. Really? Microsoft has no interest in cashing in on XP users? Why did it make business sense for Microsoft to continue to issue "OEM licensing for Windows for Workgroups 3.11 on embedded systems continued to be available until November 1, 2008" then? Windows 3.1x - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1x The ecosystem has changed...MSFT will never again be everything for everyone - two operating systems - current and past is the business model (this was clear and resounding when Win8.0 loses support and requires a mandatory upgrade to 8.1 or later). The accrual cost for supporting older out-of-mainstream/extended support operating systems is a function of the revenue receipts for the paid support. As XP use declines, so do both...eventually no longer providing any bottom line benefit. What was done with WfW3.11 is about as relevant as asking why GM continued to sell Oldsmobiles when few bought them. (Lol...those same olds-people were not much different than another declining population - desktop pc users like you and me) I suspect Microsoft didn't have numerous customers willing to pay for extended support (which is pricey). The only ones doing that were corporations that budgeted for support costs usually by buying a block of incident tickets and doling them out only if the company's own IT or helpdesk folks couldn't solve the problem (another expense to the company but cheaper than going outside for employee support). That a product is in extended support doesn't mean us users are going to fork out the high bucks to call them to get that extended support. For us end users, mainstream support for XP ended back in 2009. Saying that support for XP ends this April belies that support really ended 4 years ago. Us freeloaders appreciate getting the updates after that but we're certainly not paying Microsoft for it. That we continue to get bug fixes and security updates until the end of extended support is gravy to us. We're freeloading on Microsoft's willingness to provide those updates long after they know they aren't going to generate any revenue from incidents filed and paid for during the extended support period. Even after Microsoft drops extended support, you can certainly call Microsoft to get XP support if you're willing to pay the cost of them reallocating their personally into a special-interest support group just for yourself. Got a million or two? Tis cheaper to find outside support companies to give you that support but it's still pricey for a single user forking out of his own shallow pocket. Seems the ones that complain the most about Microsoft or any author dropping support have never ran their own business. What customers want does not necessarily equate into revenue. Goodwill is an expense. Look at the other software you have installed on your host. How many of them have authors willing to provide extended support even at extra cost when they decide to drop support on an old version of their product? We're used to support going dead on other products so why not with Microsoft? You don't want to forget the negative reactions to problems created by a flaw in the product that MS produced. I.E., security flaws that allow hackers to compromise your system. Not unlike the current General Motors ignition switch problem if the user has a heavy key ring. -- Ken Mac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 25.0 Thunderbird 24.3.0 |
#96
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Windows Live Mail
Blue wrote:
BillW50 wrote: Blue typed: It's obvious you don't like Thunderbird. Don't use it and watch your Thunderbird problems go away. Why you little lowlife liar! Plonk. Geez, no one here knows how or is too lazy to trim the quoted content in their reply? |
#97
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Windows Live Mail
VanguardLH wrote:
Geez, no one here knows how or is too lazy to trim the quoted content in their reply? Sorry about that. -- Blue |
#98
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Windows Live Mail
BillW50 wrote:
After all they tried to drop XP support before. Then the netbook craze came in and they had to extend it. This is their second attempt on killing XP. I know they wish it to happen, but if enough pressure comes their way they just won't ignore it. Yes Microsoft maybe many things, but one thing they are not is really stupid. At least not yet. ;-) This is it....at 28% XP Market share...it was over 40 last year....there's no turning back. The reallocation of resources, budget, expense, and accrual is off the books and wht remains is tapering rapidly. -- ....winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#99
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Windows Live Mail
On Wed, 5 Mar 2014 17:37:20 -0600, "BillW50" wrote:
OE6 and WLM are easily fixable with a simple macro. Thunderbird isn't easy or very useful! Nor can you fix Thunderbird's problems with a simple macro. Try to find replies to your posts sometime with Thunderbird. What a piece of junk! Is that why you post all of the stupid stuff that you post? Just to see if you can get replies? |
#100
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Windows Live Mail
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 16:59:32 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
On Wed, 5 Mar 2014 22:29:42 +0000 (UTC), "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" wrote: BillW50 wrote: That is because you don't try all of the features and your kind make lousy testers. How do you know what the software can do if you never test the limits? You have no idea how I use the software, so stop making **** up. Though if you didn't, you wouldn't have much to post... LOL! A reply I almost never use, but I'll do it this time: +1 And another +1 from me. |
#101
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Windows Live Mail
On Thu, 6 Mar 2014 00:22:31 +0000 (UTC), "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
wrote: Ken Blake wrote: Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote: BillW50 wrote: That is because you don't try all of the features and your kind make lousy testers. How do you know what the software can do if you never test the limits? You have no idea how I use the software, so stop making **** up. Though if you didn't, you wouldn't have much to post... LOL! A reply I almost never use, but I'll do it this time: +1 Thank you for the support. I see in _his_ reply to your above post, he is still making **** up. Says I called myself "blind as a bat." False. Said he can "find it on my machine in 30 seconds." That's false, too. He knows nothing about my machine. Every village has one, and you have met ours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_idiot |
#102
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Windows Live Mail
On Thu, 6 Mar 2014 15:14:15 -0600, "BillW50" wrote:
You know what I think; I think this is just a scare tactic to scare as many away from XP as they can. If they succeed, their job is finished. Although I predict that I would guess like maybe 60% tops might buy that crap. When you predict your own guesses, you should be able to hit 100%. |
#103
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Windows Live Mail
On Wed, 5 Mar 2014 15:56:32 -0600, "BillW50" wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message ... When I found a bug in Windows 8, and the same bug was present in Windows 8.1 Preview, where could I report it ? Not to any publicly visible bugtracker, that's for sure. The fact it wasn't fixed in Windows 8.1 Preview, tells you how good the bug detection techniques (telemetry) are at Microsoft. Odd, I send mine to Microsoft and the next patch Tuesday, it is fixed for me. That would be a fairly tall claim if it had happened once. We could chalk it up to coincidence. When you imply that it has happened more than once, it simply becomes completely made up. |
#104
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Windows Live Mail
On Thu, 6 Mar 2014 05:55:38 -0600, "BillW50" wrote:
In , Bob Henson typed on Thursday, March 06, 2014 3:27 AM: I reported a bug a while back which happens in every instance on every machine - purely an error in Thunderbird. There is a marked difference between that and a problem that has happened to a tiny, weeny minority of users. What makes you believe this problem only affects a small number of users? Heck just in the last few months just in this newsgroup, about half complain about it and about half doesn't. That doesn't sound like just a small number of users to me. Meanwhile, in reality-land, the rest of us realize that this newsgroup makes up a *tiny* proportion of the total user base, regardless of the particular piece of software being discussed. |
#105
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Windows Live Mail
On Thu, 06 Mar 2014 09:43:59 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote: On 3/6/14 3:04 AM, Bob Henson wrote: If any of the few people that have the problem find it really annoying, switching to using plain text might be a workaround? Maybe. But, that means you are moving back in time rather than forward. Sort of like insisting on driving that 1989 car instead of a modern vehicle. G Just in case you're referring to Usenet, bear in mind that Usenet *is* plain text. |
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