Win7 support:

Robert in CA wrote:
btw what did you think of the CMD?
Is that is what suppose to happen?
It didn't reject it this time so
does that mean the DVD is Win10?

Robert

This sequence:

cd /d C:\Users\RB\Downloads\wimlib-imagex

wimlib-imagex info D:\sources\install.ESD

while the DVD is in the tray, and you've adjusted
the D: drive letter to reflect which drive letter
your DVD uses...

should report "18362" if the DVD is W10-1903.

There will be a bunch of text, but in there will
be a five digit release number.

You can find a table of values, including "18362", in
this article, in case the command reports some other value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...ersion_history

Paul

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 9:04:57 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
btw what did you think of the CMD?
Is that is what suppose to happen?
It didn't reject it this time so
does that mean the DVD is Win10?

Robert

This sequence:

cd /d C:\Users\RB\Downloads\wimlib-imagex

wimlib-imagex info D:\sources\install.ESD

while the DVD is in the tray, and you've adjusted
the D: drive letter to reflect which drive letter
your DVD uses...

should report "18362" if the DVD is W10-1903.

There will be a bunch of text, but in there will
be a five digit release number.

You can find a table of values, including "18362", in
this article, in case the command reports some other value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...ersion_history

Paul



I tried to follow your instructions:


https://postimg.cc/6TPdvjMd

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 9:04:57 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
btw what did you think of the CMD?
Is that is what suppose to happen?
It didn't reject it this time so
does that mean the DVD is Win10?

Robert
This sequence:

cd /d C:\Users\RB\Downloads\wimlib-imagex

wimlib-imagex info D:\sources\install.ESD

while the DVD is in the tray, and you've adjusted
the D: drive letter to reflect which drive letter
your DVD uses...

should report "18362" if the DVD is W10-1903.

There will be a bunch of text, but in there will
be a five digit release number.

You can find a table of values, including "18362", in
this article, in case the command reports some other value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...ersion_history

Paul



I tried to follow your instructions:


https://postimg.cc/6TPdvjMd

Robert

What drive letter does your optical drive use ?

Substitute that letter in place of D: in the sample command.

Paul

On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:11:07 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 9:04:57 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
btw what did you think of the CMD?
Is that is what suppose to happen?
It didn't reject it this time so
does that mean the DVD is Win10?

Robert
This sequence:

cd /d C:\Users\RB\Downloads\wimlib-imagex

wimlib-imagex info D:\sources\install.ESD

while the DVD is in the tray, and you've adjusted
the D: drive letter to reflect which drive letter
your DVD uses...

should report "18362" if the DVD is W10-1903.

There will be a bunch of text, but in there will
be a five digit release number.

You can find a table of values, including "18362", in
this article, in case the command reports some other value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...ersion_history

Paul



I tried to follow your instructions:


https://postimg.cc/6TPdvjMd

Robert

What drive letter does your optical drive use ?

Substitute that letter in place of D: in the sample command.

Paul


Success!


https://postimg.cc/8sPZjm8G

https://postimg.cc/5Xc5qwr6


SO this verifies that the DVD
is a Win 10?

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:11:07 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 9:04:57 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
btw what did you think of the CMD?
Is that is what suppose to happen?
It didn't reject it this time so
does that mean the DVD is Win10?

Robert
This sequence:

cd /d C:\Users\RB\Downloads\wimlib-imagex

wimlib-imagex info D:\sources\install.ESD

while the DVD is in the tray, and you've adjusted
the D: drive letter to reflect which drive letter
your DVD uses...

should report "18362" if the DVD is W10-1903.

There will be a bunch of text, but in there will
be a five digit release number.

You can find a table of values, including "18362", in
this article, in case the command reports some other value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...ersion_history

Paul


I tried to follow your instructions:


https://postimg.cc/6TPdvjMd

Robert
What drive letter does your optical drive use ?

Substitute that letter in place of D: in the sample command.

Paul


Success!


https://postimg.cc/8sPZjm8G

https://postimg.cc/5Xc5qwr6


SO this verifies that the DVD
is a Win 10?

Robert

18362 is Win10-1903 and at the moment, there aren't
any more up-to-date ones. So yes, it's Windows 10.

Paul

On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 6:17:19 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 1:11:07 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
On Friday, September 6, 2019 at 9:04:57 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
btw what did you think of the CMD?
Is that is what suppose to happen?
It didn't reject it this time so
does that mean the DVD is Win10?

Robert
This sequence:

cd /d C:\Users\RB\Downloads\wimlib-imagex

wimlib-imagex info D:\sources\install.ESD

while the DVD is in the tray, and you've adjusted
the D: drive letter to reflect which drive letter
your DVD uses...

should report "18362" if the DVD is W10-1903.

There will be a bunch of text, but in there will
be a five digit release number.

You can find a table of values, including "18362", in
this article, in case the command reports some other value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...ersion_history

Paul


I tried to follow your instructions:


https://postimg.cc/6TPdvjMd

Robert
What drive letter does your optical drive use ?

Substitute that letter in place of D: in the sample command.

Paul


Success!


https://postimg.cc/8sPZjm8G

https://postimg.cc/5Xc5qwr6


SO this verifies that the DVD
is a Win 10?

Robert

18362 is Win10-1903 and at the moment, there aren't
any more up-to-date ones. So yes, it's Windows 10.

Paul

SO this verifies that the DVD
is a Win 10?

Robert

18362 is Win10-1903 and at the moment, there aren't
any more up-to-date ones. So yes, it's Windows 10.

Paul

So how do we proceed from here? Do I remove the present
HD and replace it with my backup 8500 Win 7 HD. Then insert
the Win10 disk and reboot and it will automatically install
Win 10 over Win 7?

Is that correct?

Of course that would leave me without a Win7 backup HD for
the 8500 and I would need to buy more HD's and clone them
for a 8500 backup drive or wait and buy the HD's, clone them
and then do the procedure making one of them a Win10 HD.

I think because I have the disk and its verified that there's
no rush on creating a Win10 HD but I need to have a Win 7 backup
HD. So for the present I think I'll leave everything as is and
wait until I get new HD's then we can return to this post and
finish the procedure.

Thoughts/Suggestions,

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:
SO this verifies that the DVD
is a Win 10?

Robert
18362 is Win10-1903 and at the moment, there aren't
any more up-to-date ones. So yes, it's Windows 10.

Paul

So how do we proceed from here? Do I remove the present
HD and replace it with my backup 8500 Win 7 HD. Then insert
the Win10 disk and reboot and it will automatically install
Win 10 over Win 7?

Is that correct?

Of course that would leave me without a Win7 backup HD for
the 8500 and I would need to buy more HD's and clone them
for a 8500 backup drive or wait and buy the HD's, clone them
and then do the procedure making one of them a Win10 HD.

I think because I have the disk and its verified that there's
no rush on creating a Win10 HD but I need to have a Win 7 backup
HD. So for the present I think I'll leave everything as is and
wait until I get new HD's then we can return to this post and
finish the procedure.

Thoughts/Suggestions,

Robert

You can carry out any procedure that you're comfortable doing :-)

I don't know what your backup drive looks like, but let's just
make a drawing.

+------+-----------------+------------+------------------------+
| MBR | System Reserved | Windows 7 | Large backup partition |
+------+-----------------+------------+------------------------+

So in that picture, there are three partitions, plus the 512 byte MBR.

One thing I have tried, is cloning a Windows 7 partition in place.

This requires:

1) Making the Large backup partition smaller, by moving
the left end over. This is "Hard" as transitions go.
It is better done by copying the files off and modifying
the partition while it is empty.

+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+
| MBR | System Reserved | Windows 7 | empty | Large |
+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+

2) Backup the Windows 7 partition to an MRIMG

3) Pretend to restore that Windows 7 partition, but just drag
and drop the partition, into the hole created in Step 1.
After the restore completes, it looks like this. The "middle"
Win7 is all that boots at the moment. The purpose of the backup
and restore, is so Macrium will change the disk identifiers.
The two Windows 7 partitions are a tiny bit different, suited
for usage in a boot menu. (Their GUIDs need to be different...)

+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+
| MBR | System Reserved | Windows 7 | Windows 7 | Large |
+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+

4) Using the Macrium CD, use the Boot Repair, while *only* the
one hard drive can be seen by the computer. Macrium will make
a dual boot menu with this in it.

Windows 7 === the middle one
Windows 7 === the right-hand one

There is also a button where you can set the "default" menu choice.
It should be set to "the right-hand one" in order for the next
step to work "hands off". Windows uses partition numbers, so you
can kinda tell which one is the middle one, and which one is the
right-hand one, just by the partition number.

5) Once you have proven the dual boot works OK, you boot
from the right-hand one, insert the Win10 DVD, execute the
Setup.exe and install Windows 10. After around four reboots,
it looks like this. The boot menu changes. The partitions updated.

Windows 7 === the middle one
Windows 10 === the right-hand one

+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+
| MBR | System Reserved | Windows 7 | Windows 10 | Large |
+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+

Now, both OSes are on the one disk drive, no second drive needed.
The Large area has shrunk by maybe 100GB or so. Using the boot
menu, you select which OS you want. By using the Default button,
you can have it set for "hands off boot" from either Windows 7
all the time, or Windows 10 all the time.

*******

Now, how much easier is it, to wait until you pick up your
next "spare" drive and just install Windows 10 on it ? :-)

It's all a matter of the level of aggravation you're comfortable with.

The spare drive will be easier. Trust me.

Paul

On Saturday, September 7, 2019 at 12:45:32 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
SO this verifies that the DVD
is a Win 10?

Robert
18362 is Win10-1903 and at the moment, there aren't
any more up-to-date ones. So yes, it's Windows 10.

Paul

So how do we proceed from here? Do I remove the present
HD and replace it with my backup 8500 Win 7 HD. Then insert
the Win10 disk and reboot and it will automatically install
Win 10 over Win 7?

Is that correct?

Of course that would leave me without a Win7 backup HD for
the 8500 and I would need to buy more HD's and clone them
for a 8500 backup drive or wait and buy the HD's, clone them
and then do the procedure making one of them a Win10 HD.

I think because I have the disk and its verified that there's
no rush on creating a Win10 HD but I need to have a Win 7 backup
HD. So for the present I think I'll leave everything as is and
wait until I get new HD's then we can return to this post and
finish the procedure.

Thoughts/Suggestions,

Robert

You can carry out any procedure that you're comfortable doing :-)

I don't know what your backup drive looks like, but let's just
make a drawing.

+------+-----------------+------------+------------------------+
| MBR | System Reserved | Windows 7 | Large backup partition |
+------+-----------------+------------+------------------------+

So in that picture, there are three partitions, plus the 512 byte MBR.

One thing I have tried, is cloning a Windows 7 partition in place.

This requires:

1) Making the Large backup partition smaller, by moving
the left end over. This is "Hard" as transitions go.
It is better done by copying the files off and modifying
the partition while it is empty.

+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+
| MBR | System Reserved | Windows 7 | empty | Large |
+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+

2) Backup the Windows 7 partition to an MRIMG

3) Pretend to restore that Windows 7 partition, but just drag
and drop the partition, into the hole created in Step 1.
After the restore completes, it looks like this. The "middle"
Win7 is all that boots at the moment. The purpose of the backup
and restore, is so Macrium will change the disk identifiers.
The two Windows 7 partitions are a tiny bit different, suited
for usage in a boot menu. (Their GUIDs need to be different...)

+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+
| MBR | System Reserved | Windows 7 | Windows 7 | Large |
+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+

4) Using the Macrium CD, use the Boot Repair, while *only* the
one hard drive can be seen by the computer. Macrium will make
a dual boot menu with this in it.

Windows 7 === the middle one
Windows 7 === the right-hand one

There is also a button where you can set the "default" menu choice.
It should be set to "the right-hand one" in order for the next
step to work "hands off". Windows uses partition numbers, so you
can kinda tell which one is the middle one, and which one is the
right-hand one, just by the partition number.

5) Once you have proven the dual boot works OK, you boot
from the right-hand one, insert the Win10 DVD, execute the
Setup.exe and install Windows 10. After around four reboots,
it looks like this. The boot menu changes. The partitions updated.

Windows 7 === the middle one
Windows 10 === the right-hand one

+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+
| MBR | System Reserved | Windows 7 | Windows 10 | Large |
+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+

Now, both OSes are on the one disk drive, no second drive needed.
The Large area has shrunk by maybe 100GB or so. Using the boot
menu, you select which OS you want. By using the Default button,
you can have it set for "hands off boot" from either Windows 7
all the time, or Windows 10 all the time.

*******

Now, how much easier is it, to wait until you pick up your
next "spare" drive and just install Windows 10 on it ? :-)

It's all a matter of the level of aggravation you're comfortable with.

The spare drive will be easier. Trust me.

Paul



We should have done this on the Win10 drive we
created. Tell me, can we do this in reverse and
still install Win 7 Pro on the Win 10 HD we created
for the 780? Then do the same for the 8500 back up
HD and put both OS on it. I like that idea. Then
I'll have both OS'S on both backup HD's but will
still buy some spares and clone them with Win 7
Pro on them(to keep it pure).

I seem to remember moving partitions once before.
Maybe we did it on the 8200 because it sounds
familiar. I would still need your guidance to do
it. Oh I remember this is part of making a Mrimg.
Correct?

I would need to swamp the present 8500 HD with
the backup HD How do I copy the files off? If I
create a Mrimg the HD still won't be empty?

I need instructions on how to do this,. I don't
believe I have those saved. I have your backup,
cloning, and restore instructions but not moving
partitions.

Robert

Robert in CA wrote:

We should have done this on the Win10 drive we
created. Tell me, can we do this in reverse and
still install Win 7 Pro on the Win 10 HD we created
for the 780? Then do the same for the 8500 back up
HD and put both OS on it. I like that idea. Then
I'll have both OS'S on both backup HD's but will
still buy some spares and clone them with Win 7
Pro on them(to keep it pure).

I seem to remember moving partitions once before.
Maybe we did it on the 8200 because it sounds
familiar. I would still need your guidance to do
it. Oh I remember this is part of making a Mrimg.
Correct?

I would need to swamp the present 8500 HD with
the backup HD How do I copy the files off? If I
create a Mrimg the HD still won't be empty?

I need instructions on how to do this,. I don't
believe I have those saved. I have your backup,
cloning, and restore instructions but not moving
partitions.

Robert

I don't think you can really install Windows 7 over
top of Windows 10, because Windows 7 doesn't know
what Windows 10 is.

Windows 7 goes over Vista directly.
Vista goes over WinXP directly.
WinXP goes over Win2K directly.

Windows 10 was the first OS to go over two OSes.
Windows 10 goes over Windows 7 SP1
Windows 10 goes over Windows 8.1 (but not Windows 8.0).

To put Windows 7 on a disk, we can do that via cloning,
transferring an OS from one drive to another drive.
Then, use the Macrium rescue CD (or USB stick) to
do Boot Repair and rebuild the boot menu. That's how
you add the second OS (or at least try to add the
second OS).

And care must be taken, to make images of the starting
materials, in case something goes wrong, and you
need to back out and try again.

I'm not really all that enamored with Windows 10,
and wish it would just go away :-) If you know what
I mean. They call this progress or something.

Paul

I'm not really all that enamored with Windows 10,
and wish it would just go away :-) If you know what
I mean. They call this progress or something.

Paul


I know what you mean,...I hate it myself

but I thought since we went through the process
of getting the license key why not use it and
build two Win10 HD's (just in case)

However,in this instance were trying to build a
hybrid of two OS in one HD which is what I wanted
all along so I could boot either into Win 7 or
Win 10 and play around with it.

From what you say for it to work on the Win10
780HD I would have to clone it back to a Win7
Pro and then change partitions during the Mrimg
process, then install Win 10 afterwards. Is that
correct?

I would rather do all of this on the 780 backup HD
first as a practice run before doing it to the 8500.

What do you think?

Robert

In message , Paul
writes:

[big snip]

5) Once you have proven the dual boot works OK, you boot
from the right-hand one, insert the Win10 DVD, execute the
Setup.exe and install Windows 10. After around four reboots,
it looks like this. The boot menu changes. The partitions updated.

Windows 7 === the middle one
Windows 10 === the right-hand one

+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+
| MBR | System Reserved | Windows 7 | Windows 10 | Large |
+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+

Now, both OSes are on the one disk drive, no second drive needed.
The Large area has shrunk by maybe 100GB or so. Using the boot

[Do you think 100G will remain sufficient for W10?]

menu, you select which OS you want. By using the Default button,
you can have it set for "hands off boot" from either Windows 7
all the time, or Windows 10 all the time.
[]
I know you don't have a crystal ball, but do you _think_ any future
"up"grade to Windows 10 will dump on - i. e. f##k up - any previous OS
it finds co-existing with it?

(What if the middle partition was Linux, not 7?)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When the people fear the government there is tyranny,
when the government fears the people there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:

[big snip]

5) Once you have proven the dual boot works OK, you boot
from the right-hand one, insert the Win10 DVD, execute the
Setup.exe and install Windows 10. After around four reboots,
it looks like this. The boot menu changes. The partitions updated.

Windows 7 === the middle one
Windows 10 === the right-hand one

+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+
| MBR | System Reserved | Windows 7 | Windows 10 | Large |
+------+-----------------+------------+------------+-----------+

Now, both OSes are on the one disk drive, no second drive needed.
The Large area has shrunk by maybe 100GB or so. Using the boot

[Do you think 100G will remain sufficient for W10?]

menu, you select which OS you want. By using the Default button,
you can have it set for "hands off boot" from either Windows 7
all the time, or Windows 10 all the time.
[]
I know you don't have a crystal ball, but do you _think_ any future
"up"grade to Windows 10 will dump on - i. e. f##k up - any previous OS
it finds co-existing with it?

(What if the middle partition was Linux, not 7?)

What is interesting about the Linux question, is I did
do a Win10 1809 to 1903 while Linux was on the drive,
and it *didn't* wipe out GRUB. Color me shocked.

However, if you install Win10-over-Win7, it will ruin
GRUB if it is present, requiring the usual repairs.

Paul

Robert in CA wrote:
I'm not really all that enamored with Windows 10,
and wish it would just go away :-) If you know what
I mean. They call this progress or something.

Paul


I know what you mean,...I hate it myself

but I thought since we went through the process
of getting the license key why not use it and
build two Win10 HD's (just in case)

However,in this instance were trying to build a
hybrid of two OS in one HD which is what I wanted
all along so I could boot either into Win 7 or
Win 10 and play around with it.

From what you say for it to work on the Win10
780HD I would have to clone it back to a Win7
Pro and then change partitions during the Mrimg
process, then install Win 10 afterwards. Is that
correct?

I would rather do all of this on the 780 backup HD
first as a practice run before doing it to the 8500.

What do you think?

Robert

The purpose of making two W7 partitions

MBR W7 W7 # dual boot

then doing a Win10-over-Win7 on one of them, is to
preserve the installed programs on the Win7, and keep
the user data (bookmarks). That's why I tried this
as an experiment. If you did a "Clean Install" instead,
then there are no programs in it yet.

MBR W7 W10 # dual boot

Since you have a rather large quantity of backups
on the drive, you might want to move them off somewhere
before designing your "new" disk setup. You could
for example, copy materials off the existing drive,
onto a new drive, selectively, a bit at a time.

1) Copy the first part.

MBR W7 == new drive

2) Drag and drop restore a second W7 copy.

MBR W7 W7

3) Install Windows 10

MBR W7 W10

4) Copy over the backup partition (drag and drop clone would do, with resize)

MBR W7 W10 Backups

So you can build up a "desired image" a bit at
a time. However, with MBR partitioning, you also
have to plan within the constraints of four primary
partitions, or three primary plus Extended/Logicals.
There's nothing wrong with Extended/Logicals, except
when needing to do partition management, I find the
"uneven" types, hard to deal with. It's easy to make
a mess, and then not easily be able to clean up later.

On Windows 7, it's possible to remove System Reserved
and squeeze it all into one partition. I've done this
on my laptop, to make room for one more partition.

'How to Remove the Windows "System Reserved" Partition'

https://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409

*******

I don't control your "disk budget", so I can't be
recommending you buy "too many drives". I have at
least two dozen drives here, and "it's a disease" :-)
It's easy to get carried away.

I only bought two drives this year. I've placed such
a limit on myself in past years too, to try to control
the "rate of acquisition". Some years I just get
carried away.

Paul

*******

I don't control your "disk budget", so I can't be
recommending you buy "too many drives". I have at
least two dozen drives here, and "it's a disease" :-)
It's easy to get carried away.

I only bought two drives this year. I've placed such
a limit on myself in past years too, to try to control
the "rate of acquisition". Some years I just get
carried away.

Paul


My large quantity of backups on the drive? Are you referring
about my external HD or the 780 HD or the 8500?

You bring up another question of more drives needed
for this. I have to think about this,. I don't have any spare
drives left to move things into. It seems I will require more
drives to do this and to clone more Win 7 drives even if I
put two OS on one HD I still want pure Win 7 backups.
If something happens and I need a backup I don't want to
have one with both OS on them at this point, that's just in
case for the future.

As it happens I'm going through a very tight budget and
have a few things already on my plate. This just doesn't
seem to have any priority of getting it done right now. I
can hold off for awhile so I can figure out how to do this
and create a simple but reliable backup system.

You actually created what I have, so I trust your judgment
and I do like the idea of the hybrid HD with two OS but I
still want the pure Win 7 Pro on (2) HD's for both computers
and have a spare blank HD (just in case). So were talking of
buying perhaps (3) more Seagate 2TB HD's and I have to
wait for this.

We can go ahead and do the 780 HD with the Win 10. First,
clone it back to Win 7 Pro, and then do the procedure of
the partitions and then add Win 10. Is that correct?

Robert