Backups versus Images?

"smlunatick" wrote in message

On Sep 22, 6:22 am, "Jim Cladingboel" wrote:
"Teflon" wrote in message

...

XP Pro Sp2

I bought a 1TB USB HDD to be nothing more than the media for backing
up 3 external HDDs, (2 - 250GB USB HDDs, plus a 160GB USB HDD), and
the 40GB internal HDD that is C:

The 2 - 250GB HDD's contain media libraries; Music, Video and
pictures, which are fairly static, though I do add to each of them
occasionally. The 160GB HDD contains all application data, some of
which changes daily, depending on which apps I use. Of course the
40GB C: drive changes with updates, etc.

I used Windows Explorer's 'Copy/Paste' function to create a backup
copy of these 3 external drives on the 1TB drive, but it took
forever. There's got to be a better way. Plus, I couldn't copy/paste
the C: drive.

My question is this, do I 'just' backup all of these drives, or do I
image them? Or, do I back up the external HDD's and image the
internal C: drive?

If backup is the answer for the external drives, would the simple
backup utility supplied with XP be sufficient? What would be the
advantage of using a more sophisticated backup program?

Next, after several months, during which I may make some media
additions to the external drives, how would I go about updating the
backups with out re-copying the entire drive? Would a syncronization
program take care of this? Or is this where incremental backups come
to fore?

I realize I don't want to 'clone' the C: drive, but will the XP
backup program do all I need to create a refreshable backup of the
C: drive? Or, do I need to Image C:?

Thank you in advance for your advice and patience. I'm getting
there, but at 75, its taking me longer than it used to and things
are not understood quite as quickly as they once were.

Being the same age, I quite understand your problem.
Backups are good, but Images are essential for your
Drive C, the most critical item in your PC!
I recommend you look on Google for Macrium Reflect
and DriveImageXML.
Both are freeware and can quickly and easily make
images of your Drive C. Being a little paranoid (after
a big problem!), I image mine weekly on Drive Image,
and at intervals during the week on Macrium Reflect .
You should spread such images between your
external HDDs for added security.
As regards using the 1TB to backup data on your other
external Drives, the backup utility supplied with XP is
not very good. I suggest you try Syncback, also
freeware, which can exactly synchronise the data from
your other three externals on to the 1TB. the program
can make incremental backups, which is what you will
need. Good luck,

Jim.

Image is extremely difficult to restore. Backups can let you restore
files selectively but as for Images, you restore the entire drive or
nothing.

Norton's Ghost allows you to retrieve a file, a folder, or any combo of
files & folders from a complete image that you wish to restore and used
an Explorer type inferfact for choosing the files/folders. I'm pretty
sure TI is the same but not positive since I haven't used it for a long
time.

HTH,

Twayne`

"Teflon" wrote in message

On Sep 22, 7:49 am, "Ken Blake, MVP"
wrote:
On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:10:36 -0700 (PDT), Teflon

You're just a little over three years older than I am. Don't belittle
yourself because of your age.

Ken, you write like a much younger man, I enjoy reading your posts,
always learn something new. And I'm not belittling, just accepting
things the way they are becoming. Still believe in the old saying, "I
may not be as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was."

Too bad there aren't some industry standards in defining terms.

There are, once you figure out how/where to search for them. Half the
work is figuring out how to get startedg.

All
of this 'clone', 'image', 'backup', etc. confusion reminds me of the
ever changing nomenclature (with suitable Acronyms) IBM used to use in
reference to 'new' functionality. Actually, the underlying basics
were always the same, I contend they just changed the words describing
them to confuse the customers and make their sales folks sound like
experts. When the customers got educated, the glib IBM salesman was
lost. Long live the SE.

lol, to a degree that's true I think. More realistically though I think
in the case at hand here, the names got changed around due to technology
advances creating more things that had to be described.



Anyway, thanks to all for responding. I will look at the utilities
suggested. May be back if something doesn't work.

(BTW - I was one of those glib IBM salesmen, the SE's saved my bacon.)

Actually, there are several places with good definitions. Probably the
easiest to read is at wikipedia.com. Some starting points:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloning_(disambiguation)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backup_(disambiguation)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_image
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_image

Basically, a "clone" is a perfect copy. What exists on a drive at
locations 1, 2, 3, ... etc, will be copied to another drive's locations
1, 2, 3, ... etc.. After a successful clone, technically you could look
in the same place on either drive and see the exact same data. A drive
IS the clone. It becomes interchangeable with the original. A program
that can Clone is necessary and won't necessarily be capable of making
images.

An "Image" contains all the above information but it will be located
wherever the program feels it fits best. All the same information is
there but you don't know (or care) where the data is located because the
program is smart enough to put things back where they need to be when a
Restore is done. An Image is saved to a drive. To use the Image, it
is Restored back to a drive. A program capable of Imaging is necessary
and they also are often able to also clone.

A "backup" is any method of saving existing data to another location. It
may or may not be the whole drive, could be only parts of it, as in
personal data but not the OS, or the OS but none of the personal data
created, etc..
XP will not let you back up any files that are opened or being used
unless the program you use accesses what is called Volume Shadow Copy
Services. Almost NONE of the regular copy programs do that (copy,
xcopy, robocop, etc. etc.). Therefore, to back up the Operating System
drive, which always has files in use if windows is running, needs a
program capable of using VSS services. Any program that can back up the
OS uses the VSS services.

Some other terms that will be useful are the typs of backups and I'll
let you search those out a
-- Incremental backup
-- Full backup
There are others but they are generally not used although wikipedia
will mention th em if you look these up there. wikipedia.com.
Sometimes it's easier to put the search term you want right in the URL
you use such as:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image
for image information. Then you might follow more links from there.

HTH,

Twayne`

On Sep 22, 11:43*pm, "SC Tom" wrote:

I have only the one partition, and that's the entire drive. The image was a
data/system image, not a sector-by-sector image since that would have
occupied most of my external drive's 500GB.

I have since found a much better solution using Acronis TrueImage for
Western Digital. I have another post in this thread about the success I had
with it.

Tom,

I followed your lead and got the WD Edition of ATI. Installation was
a snap and imaged both my C: Drive and the ServiceV001 partition, no
problemo.

Was confused by the imaging options 'Full Image' versus 'System
State'. Is 'System State' what you are referring to as a 'data/
system' image? Is that equivalent to the Restore Point XP creates?
If not, could someone explain the difference? Twayne?

Ken, yes, that was a compliment. Your writing has a sure vitality to
it - like the young guns.

And Unknown, yes, the CE's saved more than my bacon. Having started
when 'unit record' was hi-tech, and stayed with Big Blue for 35 years,
I have enough CE and other Blue 'war-stories' to fill a book. But, I
digress.............thanks for chipping in (that's a pun, son).

Twayne,

Excellent job, much appreciated. Still confused, but I doubt if you
know where my glasses and keys got off to.

Another question, does the 'On-Demand' functionality of an AV app kick
in when ATI is creating an image? I have Avira AV, and I believe it
was running when I was copy/pasting one of those HDDs to create a
backup. Sure took a long time. Should that feature be turned off
when doing a backup? Creating an Image? Cloning?

Oh yeah, curious about that ServiceV001 partion (hidden on WE, but
visible in Disk Management). I'm told it was put there by the
manufacturer, and has all the stuff necessary to restore XP and the
machine to factory specs (heaven forbid). If I have an Image of the
C: drive, do I need to keep that Service V001 partition, or any of the
stuff in it? I have an image of it as well on the external backup HDD.
I made a set of restore CD's, then IBM sent me several sets of the
restore CD's, when I had to replace a faulty HD. Seems to me this
stuff is just taking up 5GB and serving no purpose. Opinions?

Finally, now that I have ATI, can I get rid of the IBM (Lenovo)
ThinkVantage Restore & Recover app and associated files?

Thanks all.

Hi Teflon,

I'd recommend to take a closer look at www.acronis.com - it has a good
solution for home computers. And also, regardless of their web prices, there
are the companies like www.newegg.com, having a huge discount on the items
like this. I'm using Acronis True Image Home for many years, but recently I
found a very good deal for Acronis True Image Home 2009 at newegg - $23.99,
later $24.99 with free delivery and $20 mail in rebate. Of course I bought
this app and upgraded one of my computers to this version keeping others
with version 11. It can make a complete backup, incremental or differential
backup with encrption or not, compression or not, it can backup files and
directories, you can mount an image and copy the required files to your
computer, etc.If your PC is dead you can boot using their bootable CD and
restore the whole computer or migrate to a new hard drive, etc. Tons of
features. You'd better read at their web site. This is my solution and it
already saved me many times, especially after several very critical MS
service packs and upgrades that destroyed my computer. After 20 minutes the
whole system was competely restored and I kept working, very convenient!

Just D.

I bought a 1TB USB HDD to be nothing more than the media for backing
up 3 external HDDs, (2 - 250GB USB HDDs, plus a 160GB USB HDD), and
the 40GB internal HDD that is C:

The 2 - 250GB HDD's contain media libraries; Music, Video and
pictures, which are fairly static, though I do add to each of them
occasionally. The 160GB HDD contains all application data, some of
which changes daily, depending on which apps I use. Of course the
40GB C: drive changes with updates, etc.

I did a Disk and Partitions backup. That gets everything on the drive or
partition you select, including the MBR. The System State backup does all
your system files and folders, but not working files and folders.

SC Tom

"Teflon" wrote in message
...
On Sep 22, 11:43 pm, "SC Tom" wrote:

I have only the one partition, and that's the entire drive. The image was
a
data/system image, not a sector-by-sector image since that would have
occupied most of my external drive's 500GB.

I have since found a much better solution using Acronis TrueImage for
Western Digital. I have another post in this thread about the success I
had
with it.

Tom,

I followed your lead and got the WD Edition of ATI. Installation was
a snap and imaged both my C: Drive and the ServiceV001 partition, no
problemo.

Was confused by the imaging options 'Full Image' versus 'System
State'. Is 'System State' what you are referring to as a 'data/
system' image? Is that equivalent to the Restore Point XP creates?
If not, could someone explain the difference? Twayne?

Ken, yes, that was a compliment. Your writing has a sure vitality to
it - like the young guns.

And Unknown, yes, the CE's saved more than my bacon. Having started
when 'unit record' was hi-tech, and stayed with Big Blue for 35 years,
I have enough CE and other Blue 'war-stories' to fill a book. But, I
digress.............thanks for chipping in (that's a pun, son).

Twayne,

Excellent job, much appreciated. Still confused, but I doubt if you
know where my glasses and keys got off to.

Another question, does the 'On-Demand' functionality of an AV app kick
in when ATI is creating an image? I have Avira AV, and I believe it
was running when I was copy/pasting one of those HDDs to create a
backup. Sure took a long time. Should that feature be turned off
when doing a backup? Creating an Image? Cloning?

Oh yeah, curious about that ServiceV001 partion (hidden on WE, but
visible in Disk Management). I'm told it was put there by the
manufacturer, and has all the stuff necessary to restore XP and the
machine to factory specs (heaven forbid). If I have an Image of the
C: drive, do I need to keep that Service V001 partition, or any of the
stuff in it? I have an image of it as well on the external backup HDD.
I made a set of restore CD's, then IBM sent me several sets of the
restore CD's, when I had to replace a faulty HD. Seems to me this
stuff is just taking up 5GB and serving no purpose. Opinions?

Finally, now that I have ATI, can I get rid of the IBM (Lenovo)
ThinkVantage Restore & Recover app and associated files?

Thanks all.