Troubleshooting Enet-attached device

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:

...Most home users don't even have a router. They
just use the RJ45 ports and wifi from the cable modem.

which is a router.

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 18:08:24 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 11:38:14 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 08:13:36 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

Char Jackson wrote:

That's both irrelevant and unimportant. When you're trying to connect
from within your LAN, the router has nothing to do with it.

For most home networks the router is most likely the DHCP server, that
would make it relevant, but doesn't look like it's causing any problem
in this case.

One of the questions I asked in a follow-up was whether he's using DHCP.
I would recommend not using DHCP during this troubleshooting phase, but
you never know.

Also, the router comment was in response to others suggesting that he
might have to configure his router to allow specific port forwarding.
For intraLAN operation, that kind of router configuration would be
completely irrelevant and not applicable in the slightest. When you stay
within your LAN, there is no 'router' functionality involved.

Some routers can block traffic between their ports.

That is extremely rare in consumer networking gear.

It was in a DLink router that I had. Alas, it burned up over time (they
have no fans, rely on convection current, but often decay over time due
to heat). The Linksys which replaced it didn't have the option. Oh, I
remember looking intently, because I liked being isolated from the rest
of the family. The Dlink was a consumer-priced router, not a
high-priced enterprise rack mount. Rather than physically isolating the
ports, likely it was a firewall feature in the router controlling
inbound traffic between ports.

Almost certainly VLAN tags rather than firewall.

That suggestion is incomplete without also pointing out that no DHCP
server will be available, so assigning IP addresses and network masks
becomes a manual task. Also, it might not be safe to assume Auto-MDI
negotiation, meaning digging up a crossover cable, so a better
recommendation would be to use a cheap switch, where cheap means
unmanaged, but then we're back to talking about the switch that comes as
part of the router package.

Since his Kenwood lets him specify using DHCP, it should also let him
specify a fixed IP address. A dynamic IP address is only for
convenience to users and admins.

Of course it allows him to manually specify an IP address and netmask,
and I alluded to that directly above. It's also spelled out in the
manual that he previously linked.

If he is using a non-crossover cable between the router and the Kenwood
(very likely), the same cable will work between the host and Kenwood.

Only if the NICs are Gigabit, since that spec includes Auto-MDI. Fast
Ethernet (100mbps) and below don't support Auto-MDI, so a crossover
cable would then be required if a direct connection is to be made. Since
no one has crossover cables lying around anymore, I'd suggest using an
unmanaged switch so that standard cables can be used.

Both with auto-negotiate on their end to eliminate the need for a
special cable. That's what the router does, too.

Yes, but only if the port(s) is/are Gigabit.

In article , Char Jackson
wrote:

If he is using a non-crossover cable between the router and the Kenwood
(very likely), the same cable will work between the host and Kenwood.

Only if the NICs are Gigabit, since that spec includes Auto-MDI. Fast
Ethernet (100mbps) and below don't support Auto-MDI, so a crossover
cable would then be required if a direct connection is to be made. Since
no one has crossover cables lying around anymore, I'd suggest using an
unmanaged switch so that standard cables can be used.

some do.

Both with auto-negotiate on their end to eliminate the need for a
special cable. That's what the router does, too.

Yes, but only if the port(s) is/are Gigabit.

see above.

Char Jackson wrote:

Only if the NICs are Gigabit, since that spec includes Auto-MDI. Fast
Ethernet (100mbps) and below don't support Auto-MDI, so a crossover
cable would then be required if a direct connection is to be made. Since
no one has crossover cables lying around anymore, I'd suggest using an
unmanaged switch so that standard cables can be used.

Both with auto-negotiate on their end to eliminate the need for a
special cable. That's what the router does, too.

Yes, but only if the port(s) is/are Gigabit.

Dan Dove of HP proposed auto-MDI get added to 1000Base-T back around
1980, so it first showed up there. Some newer hubs, switches, and
routers have auto-MDI, including 10Base-T and 100Base-T. I remember
having to use crossover cables in the 80's, maybe into the 90's, but not
since. The Linksys BEFSR41 10/100 router that I got almost 2 decades
ago (came out in 1999) doesn't need crossover cables.

http://downloads.linksys.com/downloa...U_V10_DS_A.pdf
"Automatically Detects Straight or Cross-over Cable"

I don't remember the model of the DLINK that I had before that (which
could let be isolate its LAN-side ports), so I can't check on its specs,
but I don't remember ever being concerned about crossover cables with
that one. In fact, I tossed what crossover cables I had a very long
time ago. Didn't even need them with hubs.

In article , VanguardLH
wrote:

Dan Dove of HP proposed auto-MDI get added to 1000Base-T back around
1980, so it first showed up there.

there wasn't 10base-t in 1980, never mind 1000b-t.

Some newer hubs, switches, and
routers have auto-MDI, including 10Base-T and 100Base-T.

nearly all newer switches and routers do. hubs are obsolete.

I remember
having to use crossover cables in the 80's, maybe into the 90's, but not
since.

90s sure, but not the 80s, which predated twisted pair.

In article ,
lid says...
Can you test on Windows 7 ?

As a baseline.

Paul

Not any more

In article ,
says...
To test just the ARPC890 software and the Kenwood device, cable the
Kenwood directly to the host running ARPC890. That means losing
Internet connectivity on the host (unless it is also using wifi) during
the test.

That's just what I plan to do when I have some time in the
next few days.


Jason has never mentioned how much he paid for the Kenwood shortwave.
If he paid the $3000+ retail price, I would think he'd be talking to
Kenwood support.
I'm in contact with support - not much help thus far.

there is new firmware for the TS-890S (didn't find a TS-
890 listed at
Kenwood's site). There's also a newer version of the ARCP890 software.
Both are dated Jan 2019.
Newest firmware is 1.02. THe radio came with that level.
fwiw, the zip'd download is 105MB - lots of code in there!

On 9/18/19 2:35 PM, Andy Burns wrote:
Mark Lloyd wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

For most home networks the router is most likely the DHCP server

While your DHCP server is usually run on the same hardware as the
router, is doesn't have to be that way.

What percentage of homes would you estimate have the DHCP server on a
device /other/ than the router their ISP sent them?

Very few, which has nothing to do with the statement I made earlier.

--
97 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Christians have been the most intolerant of men." -- Voltaire
(1694-1778)

In article ,
lid says...
If you're trying to connect to the radio via its IP address, it's
exactly the same except you're skipping the hostname resolution step.

That is what I have tried.

In article ,
lid says...

One of the questions I asked in a follow-up was whether he's using DHCP.
I would recommend not using DHCP during this troubleshooting phase, but
you never know.


No DHCP in the picture yet.

On 9/18/19 4:53 PM, Char Jackson wrote:

[snip]

That suggestion is incomplete without also pointing out that no DHCP
server will be available, so assigning IP addresses and network masks
becomes a manual task. Also, it might not be safe to assume Auto-MDI
negotiation, meaning digging up a crossover cable, so a better
recommendation would be to use a cheap switch, where cheap means
unmanaged, but then we're back to talking about the switch that comes as
part of the router package.


Or a separate switch. Also, a router could be operated with no WAN
connection so it can't act as a router.

--
97 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Christians have been the most intolerant of men." -- Voltaire
(1694-1778)

On 9/18/19 6:10 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

Most home users don't even have a router. They
just use the RJ45 ports and wifi from the cable modem.

If it has wireless (or more than 1 LAN port), it contains a router
(often under the control of your ISP). A separate router gives you more
control of what's supposed to be YOUR network.

--
97 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Christians have been the most intolerant of men." -- Voltaire
(1694-1778)

On 9/18/19 6:41 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , VanguardLH
wrote:

...Most home users don't even have a router. They
just use the RJ45 ports and wifi from the cable modem.

which is a router.

Although the original statement (Most home users don't even have a
router.) is usually true. They don't have a router. The ISP does. You
can buy combination devices, but too many people prefer "easier" to
"better".

--
97 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Christians have been the most intolerant of men." -- Voltaire
(1694-1778)

In article , Mark Lloyd
wrote:

...Most home users don't even have a router. They
just use the RJ45 ports and wifi from the cable modem.

which is a router.

Although the original statement (Most home users don't even have a
router.) is usually true.

it's almost always false.

They don't have a router. The ISP does.

both do.

the cable modem inside the customer's home is the router.

the isp also has routers, far more capable ones.

You
can buy combination devices, but too many people prefer "easier" to
"better".

a cablemodem is a combo device.

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:17:34 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

The Linksys BEFSR41 10/100 router that I got almost 2 decades
ago (came out in 1999) doesn't need crossover cables.

http://downloads.linksys.com/downloa...U_V10_DS_A.pdf
"Automatically Detects Straight or Cross-over Cable"

I also had a BEFSR41 back then, except it was a US version vs EU. No
Auto-MDI for me. Mine had a slide switch on the rear to select straight
or crossover.

I tossed what crossover cables I had a very long time ago.

Same here. If I need to connect two devices, I use a switch.

Didn't even need them with hubs.

With what? Hubs? ;-)