Registry cleaner ?

Jackson wrote:

Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for
Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I
believe it's freeware.

Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or
recomendations?
Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL

- What is currently wrong or failing with the registry?
- What convinced you that the registry needs to be "cleaned" up?
- What constitutes the "cleaning" actions?
- What do you expect to gain from the cleanup?
- What are you going to do if the registry changes hose over
your computer since a restore may not be possible?
- What is your recovery strategy from the registry changes?

*_Why the uneducated or lazy should never use registry cleaners_*

If YOU are not adept at *manually* editing the registry, don't use a tool
that you don't understand regarding its proposed changes. Regardless of
relinquishing the task to software, YOU are the final authority in allowing
it to make the changes. Any registry cleaner that does not request for YOU
to give permission to make its proposed changes along with listing each
proposed change should be discarded.

Do you have a backup & restore plan in place? When (and not if) the
registry cleaner corrupts your registry and when you can no longer boot into
Windows, just how are you going to restore that OS partition so it is usable
again? Even if you use a registry cleaner that provides for backups of its
changes so you can revert back to the prior state, how are you going to
perform that restore if you cannot boot the OS after hosing over its
registry? What about entries in the registry that look to be orphaned under
the current OS load instance but are used under a different OS environment?
You delete what looks orphaned only to find out that they are required under
a different environment.

Say there was an unusually high amount of orphaned entries in your registry,
like 4MB. By deleting the orphaned entries, you would speed up how long it
takes Windows to load the registry's files when it starts up - by all of
maybe 1 second. Oooh, aaah. All that risk of modifying the registry to
save maybe a second, or less, during the Windows startup. Most folks that
clean the registry end up deleting only 10KB, or less. They are doing
nothing to improve their Windows load time. Since the registry is only read
from the memory copy of it, and since memory is random access, there is no
difference to read one byte of the registry (in memory) from the another
byte in the registry (also in memory). The extra data in memory for
orphaned entries has no effect on the time to retrieve items from the memory
copy of the registry because orphaned entries are never retrieved (if they
were, they aren't orphaned).

Cleaning the registry will NOT improve performance in reading from the
memory copy of the registry. The reduced size of the registry's .dat files
might reduce the load time of Windows by all of a second and probably much
less. And you want to risk the stability of your OS for inconsequential
changes to its registry? The same boobs that get suckered into these
registry cleanup "tools" are the same ones that get suckered into the memory
defragment "tools".

A registry cleaner should only be used if you by yourself can correctly
cleanup the registry. The cleaner is just a tool to automate the same
process but you should know every change that it intends to make and
understand each of those changes. After all, and regardless of the stagnant
expertise that is hard coded into the utility, *YOU* are the final authority
in what registry changes are performed whether you do it manually or with a
utility. If YOU do not understand the proposed change (which requires the
product actually divulge the proposed change before committing that change),
how will you know whether or not to allow that change?

Jackson wrote:

Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for
Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I
believe it's freeware.

Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or
recomendations?
Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL

- What is currently wrong or failing with the registry?
- What convinced you that the registry needs to be "cleaned" up?
- What constitutes the "cleaning" actions?
- What do you expect to gain from the cleanup?
- What are you going to do if the registry changes hose over
your computer since a restore may not be possible?
- What is your recovery strategy from the registry changes?

*_Why the uneducated or lazy should never use registry cleaners_*

If YOU are not adept at *manually* editing the registry, don't use a tool
that you don't understand regarding its proposed changes. Regardless of
relinquishing the task to software, YOU are the final authority in allowing
it to make the changes. Any registry cleaner that does not request for YOU
to give permission to make its proposed changes along with listing each
proposed change should be discarded.

Do you have a backup & restore plan in place? When (and not if) the
registry cleaner corrupts your registry and when you can no longer boot into
Windows, just how are you going to restore that OS partition so it is usable
again? Even if you use a registry cleaner that provides for backups of its
changes so you can revert back to the prior state, how are you going to
perform that restore if you cannot boot the OS after hosing over its
registry? What about entries in the registry that look to be orphaned under
the current OS load instance but are used under a different OS environment?
You delete what looks orphaned only to find out that they are required under
a different environment.

Say there was an unusually high amount of orphaned entries in your registry,
like 4MB. By deleting the orphaned entries, you would speed up how long it
takes Windows to load the registry's files when it starts up - by all of
maybe 1 second. Oooh, aaah. All that risk of modifying the registry to
save maybe a second, or less, during the Windows startup. Most folks that
clean the registry end up deleting only 10KB, or less. They are doing
nothing to improve their Windows load time. Since the registry is only read
from the memory copy of it, and since memory is random access, there is no
difference to read one byte of the registry (in memory) from the another
byte in the registry (also in memory). The extra data in memory for
orphaned entries has no effect on the time to retrieve items from the memory
copy of the registry because orphaned entries are never retrieved (if they
were, they aren't orphaned).

Cleaning the registry will NOT improve performance in reading from the
memory copy of the registry. The reduced size of the registry's .dat files
might reduce the load time of Windows by all of a second and probably much
less. And you want to risk the stability of your OS for inconsequential
changes to its registry? The same boobs that get suckered into these
registry cleanup "tools" are the same ones that get suckered into the memory
defragment "tools".

A registry cleaner should only be used if you by yourself can correctly
cleanup the registry. The cleaner is just a tool to automate the same
process but you should know every change that it intends to make and
understand each of those changes. After all, and regardless of the stagnant
expertise that is hard coded into the utility, *YOU* are the final authority
in what registry changes are performed whether you do it manually or with a
utility. If YOU do not understand the proposed change (which requires the
product actually divulge the proposed change before committing that change),
how will you know whether or not to allow that change?

I'll post where ever I want and if you don't like it don't bother
reading my posts.

What good, pray tell, has a registry cleaner ever done for you? Like
all the other believers out there you put some kind of blind faith or
voodoo trust in them and because your registry cleaner has found and
removed a couple of orphaned registry entries it gives you a warm fuzzy
feeling and you think that it's doing something useful.

Your question says it all, "WHAT, pray tell, has one done to any of YOUR
systems that you could not undo with the backup files...". That is the
gist of it all. Why bother with programs that at best do nothing other
than give you a fuzzy feeling and that at worst will cause problems
requiring you to restore registry files? That is if the registry
cleaner can even restore its own backup (often they can't) or if it
hasn't crippled the installation to the point where the Windows can't
boot properly. These cleaners are next to utterly useless and the
purposed non existent benefits parroted by the vendors and fans of these
programs are simply not worth the risk of the real damages that these
programs can and do sometimes cause.

John

thanatoid wrote:
John John - MVP wrote in
:

Don't bother with these utterly useless registry cleaners,
they cause more harm than good.

Don't top post.

WHAT, pray tell, has one done to any of YOUR systems that you
could not undo with the backup files (which all the ones I have
used offer to create - and NONE of which I have ever had to use
myself)?

I'll post where ever I want and if you don't like it don't bother
reading my posts.

What good, pray tell, has a registry cleaner ever done for you? Like
all the other believers out there you put some kind of blind faith or
voodoo trust in them and because your registry cleaner has found and
removed a couple of orphaned registry entries it gives you a warm fuzzy
feeling and you think that it's doing something useful.

Your question says it all, "WHAT, pray tell, has one done to any of YOUR
systems that you could not undo with the backup files...". That is the
gist of it all. Why bother with programs that at best do nothing other
than give you a fuzzy feeling and that at worst will cause problems
requiring you to restore registry files? That is if the registry
cleaner can even restore its own backup (often they can't) or if it
hasn't crippled the installation to the point where the Windows can't
boot properly. These cleaners are next to utterly useless and the
purposed non existent benefits parroted by the vendors and fans of these
programs are simply not worth the risk of the real damages that these
programs can and do sometimes cause.

John

thanatoid wrote:
John John - MVP wrote in
:

Don't bother with these utterly useless registry cleaners,
they cause more harm than good.

Don't top post.

WHAT, pray tell, has one done to any of YOUR systems that you
could not undo with the backup files (which all the ones I have
used offer to create - and NONE of which I have ever had to use
myself)?

From: "thanatoid"

| "David H. Lipman" wrote in
| :

From: "thanatoid"

| "David H. Lipman" wrote in
| :

From: "Jackson"

| Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for
| Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I
| believe it's freeware.

| Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or
| recomendations?
| Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL

Rulle of thumb...

Do NOT use so-called Registry Cleaners !

| You "rulle" of thumb is as good as its spelling.

Forget the BS spelling faux pas...

It is contraindicated to use so-called Registry Cleaners !

| OK, I'll bite... Why?


Because the need for one is a myth

Use can cause MORE problems than they purport to solve. Problems that can be
catastrophic.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

From: "thanatoid"

| "David H. Lipman" wrote in
| :

From: "thanatoid"

| "David H. Lipman" wrote in
| :

From: "Jackson"

| Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for
| Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I
| believe it's freeware.

| Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or
| recomendations?
| Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL

Rulle of thumb...

Do NOT use so-called Registry Cleaners !

| You "rulle" of thumb is as good as its spelling.

Forget the BS spelling faux pas...

It is contraindicated to use so-called Registry Cleaners !

| OK, I'll bite... Why?


Because the need for one is a myth

Use can cause MORE problems than they purport to solve. Problems that can be
catastrophic.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

Twayne wrote:
In ,
John John - MVP typed:
Don't bother with these utterly useless registry cleaners, they cause
more harm than good.

Completely untrue. Posted from ignorance and to be a gopher for a small
group of registry cleaner libelists. Like any other program, just
source a reliable program from a reliable web site. They don't do any
harm or damage and they also allow you to undo any changes you make anyway.

As usual and in your true form when ever these useless programs are
exposed for what they are you are here to defend your beloved cleaners
and to insult all who disagree with you. However, when people post
seeking help with real problems caused by these cleaners you are nowhere
to been seen. Most of us here have noticed that when it comes to posts
about registry cleaners you have a case of selected blindness, and when
you do reply to posts you usually leave your brains and manners parked
somewhere else.

John

Twayne wrote:
In ,
John John - MVP typed:
Don't bother with these utterly useless registry cleaners, they cause
more harm than good.

Completely untrue. Posted from ignorance and to be a gopher for a small
group of registry cleaner libelists. Like any other program, just
source a reliable program from a reliable web site. They don't do any
harm or damage and they also allow you to undo any changes you make anyway.

As usual and in your true form when ever these useless programs are
exposed for what they are you are here to defend your beloved cleaners
and to insult all who disagree with you. However, when people post
seeking help with real problems caused by these cleaners you are nowhere
to been seen. Most of us here have noticed that when it comes to posts
about registry cleaners you have a case of selected blindness, and when
you do reply to posts you usually leave your brains and manners parked
somewhere else.

John

Jackson wrote:
Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for
Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I
believe it's freeware.

Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or
recomendations?
Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL


Why would you even think you'd ever need to clean your registry?
What specific *problems* are you actually experiencing (not some
program's bogus listing of imaginary problems) that you think can be
fixed by using a registry "cleaner?"

If you do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would
be far better to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the
specific key(s) and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. After
all, why use a chainsaw when a scalpel will do the job? Additionally,
the manually changing of one or two registry entries is far less likely
to have the dire consequences of allowing an automated product to make
multiple changes simultaneously. The only thing needed to safely clean
your registry is knowledge and Regedit.exe.

The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of
the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the
device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the
registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning
loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully
confident that he knows *exactly* what is going to happen as a result of
each and every change.

Having repeatedly seen the results of inexperienced people using
automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most
experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all.
Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the hands
of the inexperienced user. If you lack the knowledge and experience to
maintain your registry by yourself, then you also lack the knowledge and
experience to safely configure and use any automated registry cleaner,
no matter how safe they claim to be.

More importantly, no one has ever demonstrated that the use of an
automated registry "cleaner," particularly by an untrained,
inexperienced computer user, does any real good, whatsoever. There's
certainly been no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use
of such products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's
performance or stability. Given the potential for harm, it's just not
worth the risk.

Granted, most registry "cleaners" won't cause problems each and
every time they're used, but the potential for harm is always there.
And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any
good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's no
real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo
effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the
non-existent benefits.

I will concede that a good registry *scanning* tool, in the hands
of an experienced and knowledgeable technician or hobbyist can be a
useful time-saving diagnostic tool, as long as it's not allowed to make
any changes automatically. But I really don't think that there are any
registry "cleaners" that are truly safe for the general public to use.
Experience has proven just the opposite: such tools simply are not safe
in the hands of the inexperienced user.

A little further reading on the subject:

Why I don't use registry cleaners
http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=643

AumHa Forums • View topic - AUMHA Discussion: Should I Use a Registry
Cleaner?
http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

Jackson wrote:
Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for
Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I
believe it's freeware.

Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or
recomendations?
Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL


Why would you even think you'd ever need to clean your registry?
What specific *problems* are you actually experiencing (not some
program's bogus listing of imaginary problems) that you think can be
fixed by using a registry "cleaner?"

If you do have a problem that is rooted in the registry, it would
be far better to simply edit (after backing up, of course) only the
specific key(s) and/or value(s) that are causing the problem. After
all, why use a chainsaw when a scalpel will do the job? Additionally,
the manually changing of one or two registry entries is far less likely
to have the dire consequences of allowing an automated product to make
multiple changes simultaneously. The only thing needed to safely clean
your registry is knowledge and Regedit.exe.

The registry contains all of the operating system's "knowledge" of
the computer's hardware devices, installed software, the location of the
device drivers, and the computer's configuration. A misstep in the
registry can have severe consequences. One should not even turning
loose a poorly understood automated "cleaner," unless he is fully
confident that he knows *exactly* what is going to happen as a result of
each and every change.

Having repeatedly seen the results of inexperienced people using
automated registry "cleaners," I can only advise all but the most
experienced computer technicians (and/or hobbyists) to avoid them all.
Experience has shown me that such tools simply are not safe in the hands
of the inexperienced user. If you lack the knowledge and experience to
maintain your registry by yourself, then you also lack the knowledge and
experience to safely configure and use any automated registry cleaner,
no matter how safe they claim to be.

More importantly, no one has ever demonstrated that the use of an
automated registry "cleaner," particularly by an untrained,
inexperienced computer user, does any real good, whatsoever. There's
certainly been no empirical evidence offered to demonstrate that the use
of such products to "clean" WinXP's registry improves a computer's
performance or stability. Given the potential for harm, it's just not
worth the risk.

Granted, most registry "cleaners" won't cause problems each and
every time they're used, but the potential for harm is always there.
And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any
good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's no
real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo
effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the
non-existent benefits.

I will concede that a good registry *scanning* tool, in the hands
of an experienced and knowledgeable technician or hobbyist can be a
useful time-saving diagnostic tool, as long as it's not allowed to make
any changes automatically. But I really don't think that there are any
registry "cleaners" that are truly safe for the general public to use.
Experience has proven just the opposite: such tools simply are not safe
in the hands of the inexperienced user.

A little further reading on the subject:

Why I don't use registry cleaners
http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=643

AumHa Forums • View topic - AUMHA Discussion: Should I Use a Registry
Cleaner?
http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

Steve Hayes wrote:


So how should you clean the registry, then?




And the correct answer to that question is: "You shouldn't." There's
no sound technical reason for doing so, but abundant technical reasons
for *not* doing so.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

Steve Hayes wrote:


So how should you clean the registry, then?




And the correct answer to that question is: "You shouldn't." There's
no sound technical reason for doing so, but abundant technical reasons
for *not* doing so.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

From: "Steve Hayes"

| On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 06:48:54 -0500, "David H. Lipman"
| wrote:

From: "Jackson"

| Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for
| Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I
| believe it's freeware.

| Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or
| recomendations?
| Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL

Rulle of thumb...

Do NOT use so-called Registry Cleaners !

| So how should you clean the registry, then?


You don't. There is no need to clean the Registry. It is a myth to sell snake oil. Very
often these so-called Registry Cleaners are malware.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

From: "Steve Hayes"

| On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 06:48:54 -0500, "David H. Lipman"
| wrote:

From: "Jackson"

| Kim Komando's tip of the day (07 Jan) has good words for
| Microcraft's jv Power tools for cleaning the registry. I
| believe it's freeware.

| Has anyone used this program? Do you have any remarks or
| recomendations?
| Jack from Taxacola (formerly Pensacola), FL

Rulle of thumb...

Do NOT use so-called Registry Cleaners !

| So how should you clean the registry, then?


You don't. There is no need to clean the Registry. It is a myth to sell snake oil. Very
often these so-called Registry Cleaners are malware.

--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

Steve Hayes wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 21:22:54 -0400, John John - MVP
wrote:

Twayne wrote:
In ,
John John - MVP typed:
Don't bother with these utterly useless registry cleaners, they cause
more harm than good.
Completely untrue. Posted from ignorance and to be a gopher for a small
group of registry cleaner libelists. Like any other program, just
source a reliable program from a reliable web site. They don't do any
harm or damage and they also allow you to undo any changes you make anyway.
As usual and in your true form when ever these useless programs are
exposed for what they are you are here to defend your beloved cleaners
and to insult all who disagree with you. However, when people post
seeking help with real problems caused by these cleaners you are nowhere
to been seen. Most of us here have noticed that when it comes to posts
about registry cleaners you have a case of selected blindness, and when
you do reply to posts you usually leave your brains and manners parked
somewhere else.

None of which tells us ANYTHING about why you think we should not use registry
cleaners, and what harm you think they do.

http://groups.google.com/group/micro...b2f696ca1b9462
http://boards.msn.com/safetyboards/t...D%3D 28824491
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic110399.html
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;299958
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888637
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/247678
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...3c7b89f3ba?q=#
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/951950
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...1aaebff35bc 6

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...ners-necessary
http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000643.html

They do absolutely nothing to improve performance and reliability of NT
installations and they can and do cause problem. Along with that many
of them carry pests and malware and others are fraudware, you install
them and they muck up your computer and the scam artists who wrote these
snake oil programs try to extort money from you to remove their pests
from your computer. Why bother?

John