A friend called me saying his 1TB SD Card he was using for backup stopped working on Windows & MacOS

"Carlos E.R."
Mon, 05 Aug 2019 03:28:42 GMT
in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

On 05/08/2019 05.14, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
A friend called me saying his 1TB Lexar SD Card he was using for
backup suddenly stopped working on Windows & MacOS.

Bad idea.

Don't use something that is prone to fail, so big and expensive.
Use a real hard disk or an SSD.

Yes, there is specific software for testing cards. I do not
remember the name.

The software you're thinking of is useless when the device can't be
discovered and doesn't show up in device manner; driver issue not
withstanding.

There is a roughly, 5k (US dollars) PCI express card that allows for
advanced data recovery options for SSD drives.




--
Why is the alphabet in that order? Is it because of that song? --Steven
Wright

"Arlen G. Holder"
Mon, 05 Aug 2019 17:29:28 GMT in
alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Aug 2019 12:56:18 -0400, Paul wrote:

At some level, all storage is the same.

Hi Paul,
Thank you for understanding the question, since some people said
that "sd" bits are somehow (magically?) less reliable than "ssd"
bits.

Both of your questions in this thread are **** easy to understand...

In this case, the owner has ditched the expensive SD card - but
the question remains if there is any way to resurrect it - not for
the data - since it was, after all, only a backup, but for the
technical ability to resurrect an sd card that Windows won't see.

It depends on which component(s) are actually 'bad' in the device,
Arlen. I hinted about this the other day, but your pride refuses to
let you make things right. I didn't see anyone else offer you any
viable solutions here, either. I wasn't expecting many people to do
so.

Not everyone is comfortable with board level work. Not everyone even
understands how to troubleshoot components on a circuit board. They
just assume (haha) that the memory chips/controller itself has failed
and you're just SOL. Well, here's the thing, the very picture Paul
shared from wikipedia has some nifty components on it that aren't
memory chips. It's not rocket science to verify those components are
in working order and functioning. If one or more has failed, your sd
card will play dead.

Maybe everyone else in the thread just assumes that capacitors and
resistors never fail and it's always the memory chips themselves that
have gone south. Ah well, your friends **** looks great from my
house, Arlen. [g]




--
Talk to me. Make believe I'm your bartender.

Paul Mon, 05
Aug 2019 17:58:34 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

Arlen G. Holder wrote:

In this case, the owner has ditched the expensive SD card - but
the question remains if there is any way to resurrect it - not
for the data - since it was, after all, only a backup, but for
the technical ability to resurrect an sd card that Windows won't
see.

If we're at the factory, standing in front of the machine
that programs them, the answer is probably "Yes".

Standing at any other point on the Earths surface,
the answer is more likely to be "No".

Now, we did say "resurrect".

That's different than "data recovery".

You're over thinking this and completely ignoring another
possibility, Paul. That being, one or more voltage/current
regulation/filtering components (and not the memory chips) has
failed.

*******

This sample pretends to show what is inside.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:P...ithout_cover_2
0090420.jpg

Notice in that one, they went from a discrete controller
chip, to a silicon die with a glob-top.

Notice also, the non chip SMD components? They aren't there for show
or as 'extra' parts. If one or more of those has failed, your drive
will appear to be quite dead.

I also didn't see anyone suggest looking for cold solder joints. The
guys been using it in a drone.. and god knows how he's handling it as
he removes/reinserts it into something else.

The point is, before you assume the absolute worst and suggest
probing the individual pins, be sure the sd card's contacts and
support circuitry isn't the culprit, before digging further.


--
Do you realize that if it weren't for Edison we'd be watching TV by
candlelight?

"Arlen G. Holder"
Tue, 06 Aug 2019 15:33:59 GMT in
alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:58:34 -0400, Paul wrote:

Now, we did say "resurrect".
That's different than "data recovery".

Hi Paul,
Mea culpa on the terminology.

I should be very clear that the goal is not the data itself since
it's just a backup after all, where we're mostly asking for your
experienced judgment and assessment of the facts as you know them.

The problem for the friend is that the card was expensive, and
maybe, just maybe, there's a "minor thing" that needs to be fixed
(sort of like the kind of stuff that a format fixes, for example).

If the card hardware is dead - the card hardware is dead.

It's not necessarily all dead, Arlen. You could have a blown
capacitor and/or resistor. A tiny component that takes moments to
test and replace, if it's bad. I'm surprised nobody has suggested
examining the components and looking for cold solder joints before
delving deeper into probing the memory stick.

I can't be the only technician who's opened these things and
succesfully repaired the majority of the ones I opened...

What's interesting is that nobody here seems surprised that card
hardware would just die like that - so maybe it's really common
(dunno).

What's more interesting than that to me is the amount of people using
google for their information, and evidently, nobody who's posted,
aside from myself? has actually opened these things up and
succesfully repaired some.

Mostly we just want to learn what went wrong and what can be done,
if anything, to get Windows to recognize the card again, although
who would trust a card for backup that pulls this kind of trick on
us.

Okay. I hope the advice you decide to take includes as much useful
information as possible. Telling you the drive is toast without even
inspecting it is foolish, but.. it's your friends drive, not mine. Do
with it what you will.

From a standpoint of statistics, does it surprise you or not that
a "card just died" like that? Are they normally not recoverable?
Or would a format of some sort work (if Windows would just
recognize the card that is)?

Arlen, you have a HARDWARE FAILURE issue, format isn't going to
correct that for you. I suspect you don't fully understand (I'm not
surprised) what format actually does. I write this because you seem
to think if you could just get windows to let you format it, all
would be swell again. Umm, that's not how it works.



--
I've been seduced by the chocolate side of the force.

Paul Tue, 06
Aug 2019 18:21:58 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

It's pretty easy to understand.

A Critical Data section got erased... somehow.

Critical Data is anything the controller needs, to maintain
error-free data.

If the integrity of the error-free data can no longer be
guaranteed, the controller "closes up shop".

Not necessarily. A failed capacitor and/or resistor can also cause this
condition. Replacing the dead component, from first hand experience,
does tend to restore drive functionality and access to the data it
contained previously. It's not a 100% always works solution, but it has
worked on several occasions; when I've been able to verify it's a non
memory/controller component that's gone south.


--
'We are born naked, wet and hungry. Then things get worse.'

"Arlen G. Holder"
Tue, 06 Aug 2019 18:35:13 GMT in
alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

On Tue, 06 Aug 2019 14:21:58 -0400, Paul wrote:

A processor and firmware are involved. The processor
buses are not pinned out. You can't "trace execution".
That's an example of what kind of barrier you might
face working with it.

Thanks Paul for that realistic assessment of what can be done to
notice when an SD card is going bad, before it fails, and what's
the less than optimistic chances of recovery.

I guess I'll have to take Diesel up on his always make-believe
offers of his sheer genius, where he and nospam should go into
business together what with all their claims of imaginary
functionality overall.

Actually, the offer is just as viable as the HP laserjet printer you
succesfully got working, with my help. [g]

Or, are you going to back pedal and claim I provided you non working,
imaginary driver solution to your printer problem?

I'm not in the business of bull****ting people, Arlen. That being
said, I'm not going to hold your hand and the reverse psy nonsense
used on small children to get them to eat their veggies doesn't work
on me, either.

The suggestion to be wary of a card 'acting up' is useful - as is
the fact there is no SMART for it. Seems to me expensive SD cards
aren't worth the trouble, but these aren't mine so I can't say
what others do.

Was the card acting up prior to no longer being recognized in
windows, Arlen? You didn't indicate such with your first post.

Thanks for always being purposefully helpful, where your
pessimistic response tells me what I need to know - as I trust you
as you've always been both purposefully helpful and credible (as
am I, because I care).

Paul didn't even suggest for you to check for bad solder connection
points (vibration, insertion/removal etc can cause this over time)
nor did he even hint about checking out the support circuitry - which
will cause the same 'end result' if one or more of those has failed.
The drive will appear to be dead.

It's been in a drone, flying around.. so...


--
What happens when you cut back the jungle? It recedes.

"p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
Mon, 05 Aug 2019
09:26:43 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 06:43:32 -0000 (UTC), Diesel
wrote:

Due to your past history with me, I need to know if your friends
data is worth paying for before I provide options.

Same old routine. So looking forward to watching this go nowhere.

His friend supposedly tossed the drive in the trash. Paul brought up a
picture of what an SD drive looks like inside, typically. Nobody even
suggested looking for cold solder points, nor did anyone even hint
about checking the resistors and capacitors. I guess people assume
those things never fail and has to be, always has to be, the memory
chip(s) and/or the controller for them. Well, newsflash, electronics
wizard that isn't; those parts do ****ing fail, and when they do, the
drive does play dead.

Before tossing the ****ing thing in the trash, it's atleast worth
checking out those components before one jumps to the conclusion the
drive is a paperweight and the data is toast.

For someone with the electronics knowledge you claim to have, you sure
don't demonstrate actually having any.

--
You lookin' at me? You lookin' at me?!

Diesel wrote:
Paul Tue, 06
Aug 2019 18:21:58 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

It's pretty easy to understand.

A Critical Data section got erased... somehow.

Critical Data is anything the controller needs, to maintain
error-free data.

If the integrity of the error-free data can no longer be
guaranteed, the controller "closes up shop".

Not necessarily. A failed capacitor and/or resistor can also cause this
condition. Replacing the dead component, from first hand experience,
does tend to restore drive functionality and access to the data it
contained previously. It's not a 100% always works solution, but it has
worked on several occasions; when I've been able to verify it's a non
memory/controller component that's gone south.

Next, you'll be telling him to use a pink
eraser on the gold pads.

Of all the computer stuff I have in my computer
room and junk room, I've *never* had a discrete
fail. What particular reason would I have for
putting that on the debug chart ?

Paul

Diesel wrote:


You're over thinking this and completely ignoring another
possibility, Paul. That being, one or more voltage/current
regulation/filtering components (and not the memory chips) has
failed.

Show me the regulator, dumb ass.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:P...r_20090420.jpg

Paul

On Wed, 7 Aug 2019 05:31:19 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

"Arlen G. Holder"
Tue, 06 Aug 2019 15:33:59 GMT in
alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

On Mon, 05 Aug 2019 13:58:34 -0400, Paul wrote:

Now, we did say "resurrect".
That's different than "data recovery".

Hi Paul,
Mea culpa on the terminology.

I should be very clear that the goal is not the data itself since
it's just a backup after all, where we're mostly asking for your
experienced judgment and assessment of the facts as you know them.

The problem for the friend is that the card was expensive, and
maybe, just maybe, there's a "minor thing" that needs to be fixed
(sort of like the kind of stuff that a format fixes, for example).

If the card hardware is dead - the card hardware is dead.

It's not necessarily all dead, Arlen. You could have a blown
capacitor and/or resistor. A tiny component that takes moments to
test and replace, if it's bad. I'm surprised nobody has suggested
examining the components and looking for cold solder joints before
delving deeper into probing the memory stick.

Have you completely lost your mind?

We are talking about an *SD* card.

This is what is inside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmm790fXUyI

Who does your soldering? Pixies with tiny tiny hot air guns or super
miniature reflow ovens?

Really funny. Even for you. What a ******.

Electronics professional BWAHAHAHA!!!


I can't be the only technician who's opened these things and
succesfully repaired the majority of the ones I opened...

What's interesting is that nobody here seems surprised that card
hardware would just die like that - so maybe it's really common
(dunno).

What's more interesting than that to me is the amount of people using
google for their information, and evidently, nobody who's posted,
aside from myself? has actually opened these things up and
succesfully repaired some.

Mostly we just want to learn what went wrong and what can be done,
if anything, to get Windows to recognize the card again, although
who would trust a card for backup that pulls this kind of trick on
us.

Okay. I hope the advice you decide to take includes as much useful
information as possible. Telling you the drive is toast without even
inspecting it is foolish, but.. it's your friends drive, not mine. Do
with it what you will.

From a standpoint of statistics, does it surprise you or not that
a "card just died" like that? Are they normally not recoverable?
Or would a format of some sort work (if Windows would just
recognize the card that is)?

Arlen, you have a HARDWARE FAILURE issue, format isn't going to
correct that for you. I suspect you don't fully understand (I'm not
surprised) what format actually does. I write this because you seem
to think if you could just get windows to let you format it, all
would be swell again. Umm, that's not how it works.

Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.

--
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On Wed, 07 Aug 2019 09:28:45 +0100, "p-0''0-h the cat (coder)"
wrote:

Have you completely lost your mind?

We are talking about an *SD* card.

This is what is inside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmm790fXUyI

Ah! I take that back. Some do seem to have tiny surface mount components
and chip pins which look worth a reflow.

Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.

--
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Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, ******* hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot, imbecile, snittish scumbag,
liar, total ******* retard, shill, pooh-seur, scouringerer, jumped up chav,
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I mark any message from »Q« the troll as stinky

On 07/08/2019 07.31, Diesel wrote:
"Arlen G. Holder"
Tue, 06 Aug 2019 15:33:59 GMT in
alt.comp.freeware, wrote:


What's interesting is that nobody here seems surprised that card
hardware would just die like that - so maybe it's really common
(dunno).

What's more interesting than that to me is the amount of people using
google for their information, and evidently, nobody who's posted,
aside from myself? has actually opened these things up and
succesfully repaired some.

I know I can not solder a tiny flash memory card.

And no, as all of my cards are in working condition, I'm not going to
open one up. But I can see the components on some transparent USB sticks
I have, and I know I do not have the tools to work on them - starting
with a microscope.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 8/7/2019 1:47 AM, Paul wrote:
Diesel wrote:
Paul Tue, 06
Aug 2019 18:21:58 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
It's pretty easy to understand.

A Critical Data section got erased... somehow.

Critical Data is anything the controller needs, to maintain
error-free data.

If the integrity of the error-free data can no longer be
guaranteed, the controller "closes up shop".

Not necessarily. A failed capacitor and/or resistor can also cause
this condition. Replacing the dead component, from first hand
experience, does tend to restore drive functionality and access to the
data it contained previously. It's not a 100% always works solution,
but it has worked on several occasions; when I've been able to verify
it's a non memory/controller component that's gone south.

Next, you'll be telling him to use a pink
eraser on the gold pads.

Of all the computer stuff I have in my computer
room and junk room, I've *never* had a discrete
fail. What particular reason would I have for
putting that on the debug chart ?

Â*Â* Paul

Not a knowledgeable as you or Diesel, but would there be a chance that
if it was put in a camera that can handle that capacity SD card, that it
would be recognized for reformatting for camera use? This may be a dumb
question but that's how I learn.

NotMe wrote:
On 8/7/2019 1:47 AM, Paul wrote:
Diesel wrote:
Paul Tue, 06
Aug 2019 18:21:58 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
It's pretty easy to understand.

A Critical Data section got erased... somehow.

Critical Data is anything the controller needs, to maintain
error-free data.

If the integrity of the error-free data can no longer be
guaranteed, the controller "closes up shop".

Not necessarily. A failed capacitor and/or resistor can also cause
this condition. Replacing the dead component, from first hand
experience, does tend to restore drive functionality and access to
the data it contained previously. It's not a 100% always works
solution, but it has worked on several occasions; when I've been able
to verify it's a non memory/controller component that's gone south.

Next, you'll be telling him to use a pink
eraser on the gold pads.

Of all the computer stuff I have in my computer
room and junk room, I've *never* had a discrete
fail. What particular reason would I have for
putting that on the debug chart ?

Paul

Not a knowledgeable as you or Diesel, but would there be a chance that
if it was put in a camera that can handle that capacity SD card, that it
would be recognized for reformatting for camera use? This may be a dumb
question but that's how I learn.

As long as it doesn't damage the camera, sure, why not ?

There are USB sticks with SD slots in them you could
use too, and if the USB stick had a problem with the
SD, it's a less expensive item.

In this case, the USB adapter must be selected with care,
as the higher capacity SD need a newer interface. My USB2
SD adapter for example, is limited to 32GB media. A 1TB device,
you'd want to check the Wikipedia article for details.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SD_card#SDXC

"SDXC

supports cards up to 2 TiB, compared to a
limit of 32 GiB for SDHC cards

SDXC adopts Microsoft's exFAT file system
as a mandatory feature"

I wonder what *that* means for the OP ?

Presumably the device doesn't roll over and play
dead, if it hasn't been "blessed" by Microsoft.
A storage device should not sit around admiring
the file system header written on it. It just
"records bytes".

That means, if you plugged the device into a WinXP
setup, you'd want the optional ExFAT package from
Microsoft installed. That also suggests a camera
manufacturer would have to license ExFAT from
Microsoft for usage inside the camera.

And a question would be, how do we know the
controller is open for business ? Does it respond
with an ID string as part of the protocol ? You
would need some kind of environment that logs
low level communications from the thing, to figure
that out.

Using some of the terminology here, a person could
try tracking down some test software that "works
against the same flow chart" as is shown here. Maybe
a Linux package of some sort...

https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/...et-64gb_en.pdf

Paul

"Carlos E.R."
Wed, 07 Aug 2019 11:19:08 GMT
in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

On 07/08/2019 07.31, Diesel wrote:
"Arlen G. Holder"
Tue, 06 Aug 2019 15:33:59 GMT
in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:


What's interesting is that nobody here seems surprised that card
hardware would just die like that - so maybe it's really common
(dunno).

What's more interesting than that to me is the amount of people
using google for their information, and evidently, nobody who's
posted, aside from myself? has actually opened these things up
and succesfully repaired some.

I know I can not solder a tiny flash memory card.

I can.

And no, as all of my cards are in working condition, I'm not going
to open one up. But I can see the components on some transparent
USB sticks I have, and I know I do not have the tools to work on
them - starting with a microscope.

You don't *need* a microscope to do it, you *can* use a jewelers
magnifiying visor setup, instead. A microscope can help, once you get
used to soldering using one and that will take further adjustment if
you switch scopes; I've got more than one here. I can do it with
either, but I prefer the visor for some tasks.

I have various rework stations, one of which I use specifically for
micro soldering work - like the SD card example.

With the right tools and knowledge, it's not a difficult task. This
is why I initially said that I knew of no freeware software options
to get the drive back online, based on what they shared concerning
the drive. And that the options I could (and have since) provide
wouldn't be free. I didn't even infer that I was going to charge
anyone, or even offering my services for the work. I simply stated
that I knew a few things he could try, but, they wouldn't be free.

The only way it's going to be a free repair is if the owner of the sd
card has the required tools and knowledge needed to repair the
device, themselves. OR, knows someone local to them who does have the
tools and if they don't have the knowledge, is willing to learn
what's needed or, just loan the tools out to someone who does. The
knowledge you can acquire, freely. The tools cost a bit.

--
Dying can be hazardous to your health.