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I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT



 
 
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  #16  
Old August 9th 19, 01:51 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
No_Name
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Posts: 47
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 11:53:46 -0700, T wrote:

Hi All,

I have a customer with a Mac and a w10 laptop and a CNC machine
with an RS232 (only) interface. He wants to be able to send
text files to the CNC machine. The Mac has USB3 and Thunderbolt
interfaces on the back. The W10 laptop has usb3 ports.

Now I could go the the various accessories sites and get
such an adapter, but they are typically trash and don't
work for beans. The customer did state this was his
experience. (Mine too.)

Any one know of a USB3 to RS232 adapter THAT ACTUALLY
WORKS RIGHT?

Many thanks,


I have 3, one is a dual RS232 head.
All were bought from Fry's Electronics, at least 10 years ago, used on
Vista, and now W10, and all work fine for most things, but there are a
very few things that just don't work through them.

Some programs need to run as admin, and/or in compatiility mode.




Ads
  #17  
Old August 9th 19, 02:32 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of
commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine
goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever
seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it
has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it
with a joystick.

That's not always the case.


What's not always the case?

It would help to know what the machine is
and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the
direct control of the machine.


If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no
'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a
computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC?

  #18  
Old August 9th 19, 07:44 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On 09/08/2019 03.32, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of
commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine
goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever
seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it
has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it
with a joystick.

That's not always the case.


What's not always the case?

It would help to know what the machine is
and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the
direct control of the machine.


If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no
'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a
computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC?


It depends if it is programmed by the computer, then the machine runs
the program on its own, like a plotter would do, or if its directly
controlled by the computer.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #19  
Old August 9th 19, 07:52 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On 09/08/2019 00.56, nospam wrote:
In article , Paul
wrote:

At high baud rates, there are two flow control
schemes, and you have to select one of them.


flow control exists at all bitrates and no need to select anything.


Flow control always exists, but which one you choose is crucial. Has to
be the exact same one as the machine at the other end uses. The "no need
to select anything" comes from the usual assumption that all machines
(modems) came with the same settings - except the one that didn't.

In the past, high speed rs232 would require hardware flow control: the
"in-band" method uses bandwith, after all. I wonder how well can an usb
converter handle it. Badly if is a three wire thing.


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #20  
Old August 9th 19, 07:53 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On 08/08/2019 23.13, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:08:33 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

I have a customer with a Mac and a w10 laptop and a CNC machine
with an RS232 (only) interface. He wants to be able to send
text files to the CNC machine. The Mac has USB3 and Thunderbolt
interfaces on the back. The W10 laptop has usb3 ports.

Now I could go the the various accessories sites and get
such an adapter, but they are typically trash and don't
work for beans. The customer did state this was his
experience. (Mine too.)

Any one know of a USB3 to RS232 adapter THAT ACTUALLY
WORKS RIGHT?

Very likely the problem is not that the adapter does not work, but
that such adapters are normally intended to drive peripherals such as
printers, not CNC machines.


the usb-serial adapters i've used provide a standard rs232 port, which
i used to talk to the console ports on old upses, a managed switch and
a gps, among other devices.


+1

My team and I use usb-serial adapters every day to administer
Enterprise-grade networking equipment via their Console ports. The brand
of the adapter doesn't seem to matter at all. They all just work. I've
never picked one up that didn't work. It's just a standard rs232 port.
There's no special protocol that the adapter itself needs to understand
or support.


That's low speed use, hardly over 9600.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #21  
Old August 9th 19, 07:54 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On 08/08/2019 23.04, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
T wrote:


....


http://www.usconverters.com/usb-serial-adapter-xs880

Mine is about is about 10 years old and has been with me from
Mexico to the Arctic Circle and on 4 laptops.
The data and power lights are a necessity.
It is USB2 though.Â* None of our monitoring equipment uses USB3x.
Don't know why anyone would need USB3 for equipment.


It comes from the laptop being good and modern, thus not having USB2 ;-p


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #22  
Old August 9th 19, 08:11 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On 08/08/2019 23.53, Paul wrote:
T wrote:


....

An engineer at work, he claimed the non-charge-pump
version he put in a piece of equipment, worked properly
up to about 70Kbaud. And could drive a long line up
to that speed. There were no adventurous claims
about "running at 1megabit" or the like. And the application,
where the equipment would be positioned in a relatively large
room, it's quite possible an extremely long cable would be
used and the "strength" of the design would be "tested".
(In some physical plants, 500 feet would not be abnormal.)
We used to provide optoisolated versions for customers
too, exactly why I don't know. But there are people
who take their miserable RS232 ports seriously :-)


Oh, I have seen that. I have seen tiny sparks when connecting computer
"signal" cables, that's why :-D

With the optoisolated ones, you can run copper cable
between buildings, where the building ground might be
slightly different, without fear of screwing up the
signal levels or something.


Exactly the issue I was thinking of!

I remember one computer where the ground was not connected, and was
floating midway between the 0 and AC voltage, 220 here at the time. Ie,
the ground was floating at 110 with a high internal resistance. We
blamed the PC switching supply.

I saw the spark on connecting the printer cable. Fried the chip on the
motherboard instantly, we had to buy a card as replacement.

That day my boss was convinced of the importance of good grounding.


I have no direct experience with designing in RS232,
just the usual kooky contact with people who know
how to do that stuff. (You know what engineers are like.)


We had to create an rs232 from discrete components at college ;-)
Not transistors, but chips. Ie, doing the job of an uart with plain ttl
or cmos chips.


The nine pin interface has every signal you would
expect on a nine pin interface. These are *more*
than just TX/RX/GND adapters. They have the usual
flow control signals. And the USB end, being USB,
is polled by the computer, and USB packets are
handled as events on the computer end. Again,
it works like any other USB item.


Exactly.

And the chip at the computer board would rise a direct IRQ to the CPU.
Extremely fast even at the time, just one instruction delay on a 8086.
I'm unsure if a 386 had to switch context (or however it is called). Not
in MsDOS, perhaps in Windows 3.


The controller chip implements a "standard" UART,
like a 16550 or whatever, complete with small
TX and RX buffer. This gives the device some
service resilience, so that if it takes 200us
for the USB to be serviced, no data is lost.
If the designers thought the device would take
longer to get serviced, they would increase
the depth of the FIFOs inside.


Was 16 bytes, IIRC.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16550_UART

https://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Doc.../DS_FT232R.pdf

Â*Â* FIFO RX Buffer (128 bytes)
Â*Â* FIFO TX Buffer (256 bytes)

So you can see there, that the FIFO is *significantly*
larger than a 16550. And knowing the max baud rate,
and doing the math, you could figure out what
they think the service interval is.


Right. That's why I hesitate at accepting using these things with GPS
receivers for timing applications (ntpd).


Even sound cards have a buffering scheme, where
the requirement is that the buffering cannot
be so large that it screws up lip-sync. At
least some of that buffer will use system memory
(and when your game crashes, the same buffer
is re-fetched, over and over again). Of course,
games don't crash with exactly the same symptoms
as they used to have.

Â*Â* Paul



--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #23  
Old August 9th 19, 08:30 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:53:14 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote:

On 08/08/2019 23.13, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:08:33 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

I have a customer with a Mac and a w10 laptop and a CNC machine
with an RS232 (only) interface. He wants to be able to send
text files to the CNC machine. The Mac has USB3 and Thunderbolt
interfaces on the back. The W10 laptop has usb3 ports.

Now I could go the the various accessories sites and get
such an adapter, but they are typically trash and don't
work for beans. The customer did state this was his
experience. (Mine too.)

Any one know of a USB3 to RS232 adapter THAT ACTUALLY
WORKS RIGHT?

Very likely the problem is not that the adapter does not work, but
that such adapters are normally intended to drive peripherals such as
printers, not CNC machines.

the usb-serial adapters i've used provide a standard rs232 port, which
i used to talk to the console ports on old upses, a managed switch and
a gps, among other devices.


+1

My team and I use usb-serial adapters every day to administer
Enterprise-grade networking equipment via their Console ports. The brand
of the adapter doesn't seem to matter at all. They all just work. I've
never picked one up that didn't work. It's just a standard rs232 port.
There's no special protocol that the adapter itself needs to understand
or support.


That's low speed use, hardly over 9600.


It's 19200 bps, to be exact. What's your point? Did someone add a
requirement for any specific speed to this discussion? The OP is still
quoted above, so it's easy to see that no speed requirements were
provided. The question was, do these adapters work? The answer is yes,
they do.

  #24  
Old August 9th 19, 08:37 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,449
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:44:50 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote:

On 09/08/2019 03.32, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of
commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine
goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever
seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it
has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it
with a joystick.

That's not always the case.


What's not always the case?

It would help to know what the machine is
and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the
direct control of the machine.


If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no
'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a
computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC?


It depends if it is programmed by the computer, then the machine runs
the program on its own, like a plotter would do, or if its directly
controlled by the computer.


Either way, there is no 'direct control'. The distinction you're making
is the difference between sending all of the movement commands before
the program is executed or whether the commands are sent and executed
one at a time. Are we still talking about CNC machines or has the
discussion morphed?

  #25  
Old August 9th 19, 09:15 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 911
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 20:32:40 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of
commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine
goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever
seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it
has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it
with a joystick.

That's not always the case.


What's not always the case?

It would help to know what the machine is
and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the
direct control of the machine.


If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no
'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a
computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC?


In other words you don't know.

FYI many (most) cnc machines incorporate their own computer which
controls the machine. The machine can be controlled from the built in
control panel or (frequentlY) from an external computer connected via
variously RS232 or ethernet. Such external control is never direct but
always via the machine's own software. In serious industrial machines
the machining program is always loaded in from outside.


There are two classes of people. Those who divide people into
two classes and those who don't. I belong to the second class.

Eric Stevens
  #26  
Old August 9th 19, 09:20 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
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Posts: 1,356
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On 09/08/2019 09.30, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:53:14 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote:

On 08/08/2019 23.13, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:08:33 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Frank Slootweg
wrote:

I have a customer with a Mac and a w10 laptop and a CNC machine
with an RS232 (only) interface. He wants to be able to send
text files to the CNC machine. The Mac has USB3 and Thunderbolt
interfaces on the back. The W10 laptop has usb3 ports.

Now I could go the the various accessories sites and get
such an adapter, but they are typically trash and don't
work for beans. The customer did state this was his
experience. (Mine too.)

Any one know of a USB3 to RS232 adapter THAT ACTUALLY
WORKS RIGHT?

Very likely the problem is not that the adapter does not work, but
that such adapters are normally intended to drive peripherals such as
printers, not CNC machines.

the usb-serial adapters i've used provide a standard rs232 port, which
i used to talk to the console ports on old upses, a managed switch and
a gps, among other devices.

+1

My team and I use usb-serial adapters every day to administer
Enterprise-grade networking equipment via their Console ports. The brand
of the adapter doesn't seem to matter at all. They all just work. I've
never picked one up that didn't work. It's just a standard rs232 port.
There's no special protocol that the adapter itself needs to understand
or support.


That's low speed use, hardly over 9600.


It's 19200 bps, to be exact. What's your point? Did someone add a
requirement for any specific speed to this discussion? The OP is still
quoted above, so it's easy to see that no speed requirements were
provided. The question was, do these adapters work? The answer is yes,
they do.


The point is you have not ascertained those USB-RS232 converters work at
high speed (115000).


--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #27  
Old August 9th 19, 09:22 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On 09/08/2019 09.37, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:44:50 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote:

On 09/08/2019 03.32, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of
commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine
goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever
seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it
has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it
with a joystick.

That's not always the case.

What's not always the case?

It would help to know what the machine is
and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the
direct control of the machine.

If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no
'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a
computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC?


It depends if it is programmed by the computer, then the machine runs
the program on its own, like a plotter would do, or if its directly
controlled by the computer.


Either way, there is no 'direct control'. The distinction you're making
is the difference between sending all of the movement commands before
the program is executed or whether the commands are sent and executed
one at a time. Are we still talking about CNC machines or has the
discussion morphed?


The point is that direct control of a CNC machine over USB-RS232
converter _might_ be problematic.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #28  
Old August 9th 19, 09:31 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On 09/08/2019 10.15, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 20:32:40 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote:

A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of
commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine
goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever
seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it
has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it
with a joystick.

That's not always the case.


What's not always the case?

It would help to know what the machine is
and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the
direct control of the machine.


If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no
'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a
computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC?


In other words you don't know.

FYI many (most) cnc machines incorporate their own computer which
controls the machine. The machine can be controlled from the built in
control panel or (frequentlY) from an external computer connected via
variously RS232 or ethernet. Such external control is never direct but
always via the machine's own software. In serious industrial machines
the machining program is always loaded in from outside.


Ok. Thanks.
Then the speed (the latency) of the connection is of no consequence.



--
Cheers, Carlos.
  #29  
Old August 9th 19, 09:32 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Andy Burns[_6_]
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Posts: 1,318
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

Carlos E.R. wrote:

you have not ascertained those USB-RS232 converters work at
high speed (115000).


They do, uploading sizeable firmware images by xmodem is tedious, even
at 115k2
  #30  
Old August 9th 19, 10:06 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-10
Carlos E.R.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,356
Default I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT

On 09/08/2019 10.32, Andy Burns wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote:

you have not ascertained those USB-RS232 converters work at
high speed (115000).


They do, uploading sizeable firmware images by xmodem is tedious, even
at 115k2


Ok! :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.
 




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