If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Rate Thread | Display Modes |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 11:53:46 -0700, T wrote:
Hi All, I have a customer with a Mac and a w10 laptop and a CNC machine with an RS232 (only) interface. He wants to be able to send text files to the CNC machine. The Mac has USB3 and Thunderbolt interfaces on the back. The W10 laptop has usb3 ports. Now I could go the the various accessories sites and get such an adapter, but they are typically trash and don't work for beans. The customer did state this was his experience. (Mine too.) Any one know of a USB3 to RS232 adapter THAT ACTUALLY WORKS RIGHT? Many thanks, I have 3, one is a dual RS232 head. All were bought from Fry's Electronics, at least 10 years ago, used on Vista, and now W10, and all work fine for most things, but there are a very few things that just don't work through them. Some programs need to run as admin, and/or in compatiility mode. |
Ads |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote: On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson wrote: A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it with a joystick. That's not always the case. What's not always the case? It would help to know what the machine is and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the direct control of the machine. If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no 'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC? |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On 09/08/2019 03.32, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson wrote: A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it with a joystick. That's not always the case. What's not always the case? It would help to know what the machine is and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the direct control of the machine. If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no 'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC? It depends if it is programmed by the computer, then the machine runs the program on its own, like a plotter would do, or if its directly controlled by the computer. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On 09/08/2019 00.56, nospam wrote:
In article , Paul wrote: At high baud rates, there are two flow control schemes, and you have to select one of them. flow control exists at all bitrates and no need to select anything. Flow control always exists, but which one you choose is crucial. Has to be the exact same one as the machine at the other end uses. The "no need to select anything" comes from the usual assumption that all machines (modems) came with the same settings - except the one that didn't. In the past, high speed rs232 would require hardware flow control: the "in-band" method uses bandwith, after all. I wonder how well can an usb converter handle it. Badly if is a three wire thing. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On 08/08/2019 23.13, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:08:33 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Frank Slootweg wrote: I have a customer with a Mac and a w10 laptop and a CNC machine with an RS232 (only) interface. He wants to be able to send text files to the CNC machine. The Mac has USB3 and Thunderbolt interfaces on the back. The W10 laptop has usb3 ports. Now I could go the the various accessories sites and get such an adapter, but they are typically trash and don't work for beans. The customer did state this was his experience. (Mine too.) Any one know of a USB3 to RS232 adapter THAT ACTUALLY WORKS RIGHT? Very likely the problem is not that the adapter does not work, but that such adapters are normally intended to drive peripherals such as printers, not CNC machines. the usb-serial adapters i've used provide a standard rs232 port, which i used to talk to the console ports on old upses, a managed switch and a gps, among other devices. +1 My team and I use usb-serial adapters every day to administer Enterprise-grade networking equipment via their Console ports. The brand of the adapter doesn't seem to matter at all. They all just work. I've never picked one up that didn't work. It's just a standard rs232 port. There's no special protocol that the adapter itself needs to understand or support. That's low speed use, hardly over 9600. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On 08/08/2019 23.04, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
T wrote: .... http://www.usconverters.com/usb-serial-adapter-xs880 Mine is about is about 10 years old and has been with me from Mexico to the Arctic Circle and on 4 laptops. The data and power lights are a necessity. It is USB2 though.Â* None of our monitoring equipment uses USB3x. Don't know why anyone would need USB3 for equipment. It comes from the laptop being good and modern, thus not having USB2 ;-p -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On 08/08/2019 23.53, Paul wrote:
T wrote: .... An engineer at work, he claimed the non-charge-pump version he put in a piece of equipment, worked properly up to about 70Kbaud. And could drive a long line up to that speed. There were no adventurous claims about "running at 1megabit" or the like. And the application, where the equipment would be positioned in a relatively large room, it's quite possible an extremely long cable would be used and the "strength" of the design would be "tested". (In some physical plants, 500 feet would not be abnormal.) We used to provide optoisolated versions for customers too, exactly why I don't know. But there are people who take their miserable RS232 ports seriously :-) Oh, I have seen that. I have seen tiny sparks when connecting computer "signal" cables, that's why :-D With the optoisolated ones, you can run copper cable between buildings, where the building ground might be slightly different, without fear of screwing up the signal levels or something. Exactly the issue I was thinking of! I remember one computer where the ground was not connected, and was floating midway between the 0 and AC voltage, 220 here at the time. Ie, the ground was floating at 110 with a high internal resistance. We blamed the PC switching supply. I saw the spark on connecting the printer cable. Fried the chip on the motherboard instantly, we had to buy a card as replacement. That day my boss was convinced of the importance of good grounding. I have no direct experience with designing in RS232, just the usual kooky contact with people who know how to do that stuff. (You know what engineers are like.) We had to create an rs232 from discrete components at college ;-) Not transistors, but chips. Ie, doing the job of an uart with plain ttl or cmos chips. The nine pin interface has every signal you would expect on a nine pin interface. These are *more* than just TX/RX/GND adapters. They have the usual flow control signals. And the USB end, being USB, is polled by the computer, and USB packets are handled as events on the computer end. Again, it works like any other USB item. Exactly. And the chip at the computer board would rise a direct IRQ to the CPU. Extremely fast even at the time, just one instruction delay on a 8086. I'm unsure if a 386 had to switch context (or however it is called). Not in MsDOS, perhaps in Windows 3. The controller chip implements a "standard" UART, like a 16550 or whatever, complete with small TX and RX buffer. This gives the device some service resilience, so that if it takes 200us for the USB to be serviced, no data is lost. If the designers thought the device would take longer to get serviced, they would increase the depth of the FIFOs inside. Was 16 bytes, IIRC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16550_UART https://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Doc.../DS_FT232R.pdf Â*Â* FIFO RX Buffer (128 bytes) Â*Â* FIFO TX Buffer (256 bytes) So you can see there, that the FIFO is *significantly* larger than a 16550. And knowing the max baud rate, and doing the math, you could figure out what they think the service interval is. Right. That's why I hesitate at accepting using these things with GPS receivers for timing applications (ntpd). Even sound cards have a buffering scheme, where the requirement is that the buffering cannot be so large that it screws up lip-sync. At least some of that buffer will use system memory (and when your game crashes, the same buffer is re-fetched, over and over again). Of course, games don't crash with exactly the same symptoms as they used to have. Â*Â* Paul -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:53:14 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote: On 08/08/2019 23.13, Char Jackson wrote: On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:08:33 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Frank Slootweg wrote: I have a customer with a Mac and a w10 laptop and a CNC machine with an RS232 (only) interface. He wants to be able to send text files to the CNC machine. The Mac has USB3 and Thunderbolt interfaces on the back. The W10 laptop has usb3 ports. Now I could go the the various accessories sites and get such an adapter, but they are typically trash and don't work for beans. The customer did state this was his experience. (Mine too.) Any one know of a USB3 to RS232 adapter THAT ACTUALLY WORKS RIGHT? Very likely the problem is not that the adapter does not work, but that such adapters are normally intended to drive peripherals such as printers, not CNC machines. the usb-serial adapters i've used provide a standard rs232 port, which i used to talk to the console ports on old upses, a managed switch and a gps, among other devices. +1 My team and I use usb-serial adapters every day to administer Enterprise-grade networking equipment via their Console ports. The brand of the adapter doesn't seem to matter at all. They all just work. I've never picked one up that didn't work. It's just a standard rs232 port. There's no special protocol that the adapter itself needs to understand or support. That's low speed use, hardly over 9600. It's 19200 bps, to be exact. What's your point? Did someone add a requirement for any specific speed to this discussion? The OP is still quoted above, so it's easy to see that no speed requirements were provided. The question was, do these adapters work? The answer is yes, they do. |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:44:50 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
wrote: On 09/08/2019 03.32, Char Jackson wrote: On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson wrote: A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it with a joystick. That's not always the case. What's not always the case? It would help to know what the machine is and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the direct control of the machine. If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no 'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC? It depends if it is programmed by the computer, then the machine runs the program on its own, like a plotter would do, or if its directly controlled by the computer. Either way, there is no 'direct control'. The distinction you're making is the difference between sending all of the movement commands before the program is executed or whether the commands are sent and executed one at a time. Are we still talking about CNC machines or has the discussion morphed? |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 20:32:40 -0500, Char Jackson
wrote: On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson wrote: A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it with a joystick. That's not always the case. What's not always the case? It would help to know what the machine is and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the direct control of the machine. If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no 'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC? In other words you don't know. FYI many (most) cnc machines incorporate their own computer which controls the machine. The machine can be controlled from the built in control panel or (frequentlY) from an external computer connected via variously RS232 or ethernet. Such external control is never direct but always via the machine's own software. In serious industrial machines the machining program is always loaded in from outside. There are two classes of people. Those who divide people into two classes and those who don't. I belong to the second class. Eric Stevens |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On 09/08/2019 09.30, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:53:14 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 08/08/2019 23.13, Char Jackson wrote: On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:08:33 -0400, nospam wrote: In article , Frank Slootweg wrote: I have a customer with a Mac and a w10 laptop and a CNC machine with an RS232 (only) interface. He wants to be able to send text files to the CNC machine. The Mac has USB3 and Thunderbolt interfaces on the back. The W10 laptop has usb3 ports. Now I could go the the various accessories sites and get such an adapter, but they are typically trash and don't work for beans. The customer did state this was his experience. (Mine too.) Any one know of a USB3 to RS232 adapter THAT ACTUALLY WORKS RIGHT? Very likely the problem is not that the adapter does not work, but that such adapters are normally intended to drive peripherals such as printers, not CNC machines. the usb-serial adapters i've used provide a standard rs232 port, which i used to talk to the console ports on old upses, a managed switch and a gps, among other devices. +1 My team and I use usb-serial adapters every day to administer Enterprise-grade networking equipment via their Console ports. The brand of the adapter doesn't seem to matter at all. They all just work. I've never picked one up that didn't work. It's just a standard rs232 port. There's no special protocol that the adapter itself needs to understand or support. That's low speed use, hardly over 9600. It's 19200 bps, to be exact. What's your point? Did someone add a requirement for any specific speed to this discussion? The OP is still quoted above, so it's easy to see that no speed requirements were provided. The question was, do these adapters work? The answer is yes, they do. The point is you have not ascertained those USB-RS232 converters work at high speed (115000). -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On 09/08/2019 09.37, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:44:50 +0200, "Carlos E.R." wrote: On 09/08/2019 03.32, Char Jackson wrote: On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson wrote: A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it with a joystick. That's not always the case. What's not always the case? It would help to know what the machine is and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the direct control of the machine. If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no 'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC? It depends if it is programmed by the computer, then the machine runs the program on its own, like a plotter would do, or if its directly controlled by the computer. Either way, there is no 'direct control'. The distinction you're making is the difference between sending all of the movement commands before the program is executed or whether the commands are sent and executed one at a time. Are we still talking about CNC machines or has the discussion morphed? The point is that direct control of a CNC machine over USB-RS232 converter _might_ be problematic. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On 09/08/2019 10.15, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 20:32:40 -0500, Char Jackson wrote: On Fri, 09 Aug 2019 12:00:56 +1200, Eric Stevens wrote: On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 16:26:28 -0500, Char Jackson wrote: A CNC machine is essentially a plotter. You're sending a series of commands that ends with a command to execute. After that, the machine goes to work. There's no real time control, at least not that I've ever seen. Once executed, the machine goes to work and lets you know when it has finished. It's not like you're sitting there, trying to guide it with a joystick. That's not always the case. What's not always the case? It would help to know what the machine is and whether the problem is the downloading of a control program or the direct control of the machine. If it's a CNC machine, as it was described up thread, there is no 'direct control'. Is there a CNC machine that isn't controlled by a computer? If so, would it still be considered to be CNC? In other words you don't know. FYI many (most) cnc machines incorporate their own computer which controls the machine. The machine can be controlled from the built in control panel or (frequentlY) from an external computer connected via variously RS232 or ethernet. Such external control is never direct but always via the machine's own software. In serious industrial machines the machining program is always loaded in from outside. Ok. Thanks. Then the speed (the latency) of the connection is of no consequence. -- Cheers, Carlos. |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
Carlos E.R. wrote:
you have not ascertained those USB-RS232 converters work at high speed (115000). They do, uploading sizeable firmware images by xmodem is tedious, even at 115k2 |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
I need a usb3 to rs232 adapter that WORKS RIGHT
On 09/08/2019 10.32, Andy Burns wrote:
Carlos E.R. wrote: you have not ascertained those USB-RS232 converters work at high speed (115000). They do, uploading sizeable firmware images by xmodem is tedious, even at 115k2 Ok! :-) -- Cheers, Carlos. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|