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NTLDR is missing



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 2nd 14, 01:52 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Andrew Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default NTLDR is missing

Hello
I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and
it is running how I want but now short on space.
I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity
hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk.
I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this larger
disk to boot.
Help please?
Thanks
Andrew


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  #2  
Old August 2nd 14, 02:32 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,058
Default NTLDR is missing

Hi, Andrew.

Win7 does not use NTLDR at all - except when dual-booting into WinXP or
prior. Win7 (and Win8) use the new BCD (Boot Configuration Data) kept in
the poorly-named "Boot" folder, plus the new "bootmgr" file, both of which
must be in the Active (bootable) partition on the disk designated in the
BIOS as the current Boot Device.

...changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk.


That larger disk still has instructions in its System Partition to look for
NTLDR (and NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini, the other two essential startup
programs for WinXP - but which don't exist in Win7 or Win8). You'll need to
change the startup files on whichever HDD your computer is now trying to
boot from - or change the BIOS to boot from the other HDD.

Since I haven't used Acronis, I'll let others tell you how to make sure that
it "restores" the startup files to the right partition when moving them to a
new HDD.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3528.0331) in Win8.1 Pro with Media
Center


"Andrew Wilson" wrote in message ...

Hello
I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and
it is running how I want but now short on space.
I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity
hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk.
I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this larger
disk to boot.
Help please?
Thanks
Andrew

  #3  
Old August 2nd 14, 02:43 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Andrew Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default NTLDR is missing

Thanks for this.
It is a dual boot system and I still have one disk that runs XP although
that will be formatted for reuse when I am happy with the Win 7
installation. When I boot up normally I get the choice of XP or Win 7 and
choose Win 7. When I instruct the BIOS to boot from the larger cloned hard
disk however I get the 'NTLDR is missing' without the option of booting from
XP or Win7. I would be grateful for any further help.
Regards
Andrew

"R. C. White" wrote in message
ecom...

Hi, Andrew.

Win7 does not use NTLDR at all - except when dual-booting into WinXP or
prior. Win7 (and Win8) use the new BCD (Boot Configuration Data) kept in
the poorly-named "Boot" folder, plus the new "bootmgr" file, both of which
must be in the Active (bootable) partition on the disk designated in the
BIOS as the current Boot Device.

...changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk.


That larger disk still has instructions in its System Partition to look for
NTLDR (and NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini, the other two essential startup
programs for WinXP - but which don't exist in Win7 or Win8). You'll need to
change the startup files on whichever HDD your computer is now trying to
boot from - or change the BIOS to boot from the other HDD.

Since I haven't used Acronis, I'll let others tell you how to make sure that
it "restores" the startup files to the right partition when moving them to a
new HDD.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3528.0331) in Win8.1 Pro with Media
Center


"Andrew Wilson" wrote in message ...

Hello
I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and
it is running how I want but now short on space.
I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity
hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk.
I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this larger
disk to boot.
Help please?
Thanks
Andrew


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

  #4  
Old August 2nd 14, 04:23 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default NTLDR is missing

Andrew Wilson wrote:
Hello
I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk
and it is running how I want but now short on space.
I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger
capacity hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk.
I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this
larger disk to boot.
Help please?

Andrew Wilson also wrote:
It is a dual boot system and I still have one disk that runs XP although
that will be formatted for reuse when I am happy with the Win 7
installation. When I boot up normally I get the choice of XP or Win 7
and choose Win 7. When I instruct the BIOS to boot from the larger
cloned hard disk however I get the 'NTLDR is missing' without the option
of booting from XP or Win7. I would be grateful for any further help.


Was this a dual boot system (XP and Win7) before you decided to just
clone the Win7 partition ?

When you used Acronis 2014 to clone the Win7 image did you include the
System Reserved partition (necessary to boot Win7 since it contains the
boot loader files).

It would be a good idea to provide some information on the installed
operating system on the pc before you cloned Win7 with Acronis.
- dual boot ?
- Win7 installed after XP to make it a dual boot system
- etc.


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #5  
Old August 2nd 14, 05:18 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Andrew Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default NTLDR is missing

Thanks Winston.
System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard disks
then it automatically became dual boot from then on.
I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't realise
that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this one of the
options in Acronis?
Thanks
Andrew

". . .winston" wrote in message ...

Andrew Wilson wrote:
Hello
I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk
and it is running how I want but now short on space.
I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger
capacity hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk.
I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this
larger disk to boot.
Help please?

Andrew Wilson also wrote:
It is a dual boot system and I still have one disk that runs XP although
that will be formatted for reuse when I am happy with the Win 7
installation. When I boot up normally I get the choice of XP or Win 7
and choose Win 7. When I instruct the BIOS to boot from the larger
cloned hard disk however I get the 'NTLDR is missing' without the option
of booting from XP or Win7. I would be grateful for any further help.


Was this a dual boot system (XP and Win7) before you decided to just
clone the Win7 partition ?

When you used Acronis 2014 to clone the Win7 image did you include the
System Reserved partition (necessary to boot Win7 since it contains the
boot loader files).

It would be a good idea to provide some information on the installed
operating system on the pc before you cloned Win7 with Acronis.
- dual boot ?
- Win7 installed after XP to make it a dual boot system
- etc.


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

  #6  
Old August 2nd 14, 09:20 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default NTLDR is missing

Andrew Wilson wrote:
Thanks Winston.
System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard
disks then it automatically became dual boot from then on.
I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't
realise that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this
one of the options in Acronis?
Thanks
Andrew


If you installed Win7 on the same original system that XP was present
and that created a dual boot menu...the XP system drive was where the
original Win7 placed its boot manager files (i.e. the XP partition had
both XP's unique and Win7's unique boot manager files).

What you've yet to provide is what you have on each of those disks
- Is XP and Win7 still reside on the 80GB Disk
- Is Win7 also (after cloning) the sole o/s on the 'larger capacity'
disk ?
- Is XP and Win7 (after cloning both) on the new larger capacity disk

Bottom line, one can't just clone one operating system from a dual boot
system to another drive and expect it to boot.

It would have made more sense based on information provided so far to
disconnect the XP Drive, install Win7 to the larger drive (install, not
clone) and then use the BIOS option function key or changing drives in
the BIOS (assuming either is an available option) to boot from another
connected drive...once Win7 was working and comfortable on the larger
drive then wipe (format the entire XP/Win7 80 GB dual boot drive).


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #7  
Old August 2nd 14, 09:30 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
dadiOH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,020
Default NTLDR is missing

"Andrew Wilson" wrote in message

Thanks for this.
It is a dual boot system and I still have one disk that runs XP although
that will be formatted for reuse when I am happy with the Win 7
installation. When I boot up normally I get the choice of XP or Win 7
and
choose Win 7. When I instruct the BIOS to boot from the larger cloned
hard
disk however I get the 'NTLDR is missing' without the option of booting
from XP or Win7. I would be grateful for any further help.


This is from memory so check further. There are three files needed to
boot XP...
boot.ini
NTLDR
NTdetect.com
They need to be in the root of the drive from which you are booting and
can simply be copied to that location.

Boot.ini is a text file and can be edited with any text editor. It
specifies the choices for the boot menu and has the path for each choice.
It also specifies the default drive when using a multi-boot system.

It sounds as if the path to your boot drive is incorrect in boot.ini; you
may or may not be missing one or more of the three necessary files.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

  #8  
Old August 2nd 14, 10:06 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default NTLDR is missing

Andrew Wilson wrote:
Hello
I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk
and it is running how I want but now short on space.
I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger
capacity hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk.
I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this
larger disk to boot.
Help please?
Thanks
Andrew


This means that the disk you moved the OS to, doesn't have
the right MBR code to boot Windows 7. So the cloning software
did move the C: partition over, but it did not correct the
440 bytes of boot code in the MBR. If you knew how to move
that code from the old disk, without bringing over the
64 byte primary partition table, it can be fixed that
way as well.

This is an equivalent of "fixmbr", only for Windows 7.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...(v=WS.10).aspx

bootsect.exe /nt60 E:

Using "nt52" would cause 'NTLDR is missing' on an attempt to
boot Windows 7. Using "nt60" would hook into winload and BCD
related stuff.

The drive letter E: in that example, is to help point the
program at the correct disk. If you're doing maintenance
from another disk, it's important to pick a drive letter
which is on the affected (busted) disk. With a little
careless inattention, you could break all the disks. If
that happens, boot the Recovery Console from a Windows 7 installer
DVD, and you can do more commands like that from there.

I think there's another command that can fix that.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392

Bootrec.exe /FixMbr

The Bootrec command might be more "friendly" than bootsect,
if you had to choose between the two.

*******

On a two partition install, you move both OS partitions.
Both your C: and your SYSTEM RESERVED. So if you see
a SYSTEM RESERVED, it has to be transferred over as well.
I have my Windows 7 setup now, to not use a SYSTEM RESERVED,
so on my laptop, I would only need to move C: to a new disk.

HTH,
Paul
  #9  
Old August 3rd 14, 12:13 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Andrew Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default NTLDR is missing

I'll try and explain further.
Disk A containing Windows XP
Disk B containing WinXP clone of Disk A
Disk C containing Windows 7

I then cloned Disk C to Disk B using Acronis True Image 2014 as space was
limited on Disk C and Disk B was much larger capacity.

I now have:
Disk A containing Windows XP
Disk B containing clone of Disk C (Widows 7)
Disk B containing original Windows 7

I can still access both Disk A and Disk C on dual boot but the cloned Disk B
gives me 'NTLDR is missing' when I change BIOS to boot from that disk.

I am willing to sacrifice Disk A if it means that I can boot from Disk B.

Thanks
Andrew

". . .winston" wrote in message ...

Andrew Wilson wrote:
Thanks Winston.
System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard
disks then it automatically became dual boot from then on.
I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't
realise that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this
one of the options in Acronis?
Thanks
Andrew


If you installed Win7 on the same original system that XP was present
and that created a dual boot menu...the XP system drive was where the
original Win7 placed its boot manager files (i.e. the XP partition had
both XP's unique and Win7's unique boot manager files).

What you've yet to provide is what you have on each of those disks
- Is XP and Win7 still reside on the 80GB Disk
- Is Win7 also (after cloning) the sole o/s on the 'larger capacity'
disk ?
- Is XP and Win7 (after cloning both) on the new larger capacity disk

Bottom line, one can't just clone one operating system from a dual boot
system to another drive and expect it to boot.

It would have made more sense based on information provided so far to
disconnect the XP Drive, install Win7 to the larger drive (install, not
clone) and then use the BIOS option function key or changing drives in
the BIOS (assuming either is an available option) to boot from another
connected drive...once Win7 was working and comfortable on the larger
drive then wipe (format the entire XP/Win7 80 GB dual boot drive).


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

  #10  
Old August 3rd 14, 12:15 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Andrew Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default NTLDR is missing

Sorry forgot to say that Disks A, B and C only have one partition each.
Thanks
Andrew

"Andrew Wilson" wrote in message ...

I'll try and explain further.
Disk A containing Windows XP
Disk B containing WinXP clone of Disk A
Disk C containing Windows 7

I then cloned Disk C to Disk B using Acronis True Image 2014 as space was
limited on Disk C and Disk B was much larger capacity.

I now have:
Disk A containing Windows XP
Disk B containing clone of Disk C (Widows 7)
Disk B containing original Windows 7

I can still access both Disk A and Disk C on dual boot but the cloned Disk B
gives me 'NTLDR is missing' when I change BIOS to boot from that disk.

I am willing to sacrifice Disk A if it means that I can boot from Disk B.

Thanks
Andrew

". . .winston" wrote in message ...

Andrew Wilson wrote:
Thanks Winston.
System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard
disks then it automatically became dual boot from then on.
I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't
realise that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this
one of the options in Acronis?
Thanks
Andrew


If you installed Win7 on the same original system that XP was present
and that created a dual boot menu...the XP system drive was where the
original Win7 placed its boot manager files (i.e. the XP partition had
both XP's unique and Win7's unique boot manager files).

What you've yet to provide is what you have on each of those disks
- Is XP and Win7 still reside on the 80GB Disk
- Is Win7 also (after cloning) the sole o/s on the 'larger capacity'
disk ?
- Is XP and Win7 (after cloning both) on the new larger capacity disk

Bottom line, one can't just clone one operating system from a dual boot
system to another drive and expect it to boot.

It would have made more sense based on information provided so far to
disconnect the XP Drive, install Win7 to the larger drive (install, not
clone) and then use the BIOS option function key or changing drives in
the BIOS (assuming either is an available option) to boot from another
connected drive...once Win7 was working and comfortable on the larger
drive then wipe (format the entire XP/Win7 80 GB dual boot drive).


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

  #11  
Old August 3rd 14, 04:47 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
R. C. White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,058
Default NTLDR is missing

Hi, Andrew.

Please don't compound the confusion by referring to "Disk A", etc. As you
will see if you run Disk Management and study the Graphical Display in the
lower part of the screen, Windows refers to disks by NUMBER, starting with
zero: Disk 0, Disk 1, etc.

Each physical disk, such as Disk 0, can be partitioned into a single
partition or into multiple partitions. Each partition (aka "drive" aka
"volume") can be assigned a letter (Drive A:, Drive C:, Drive X:, etc.), and
must be formatted before it can be used to store folders and files.

So there may be a Drive A:, but never a Disk A. And Drive A: is only a
partition, not an entire disk, even if that is the only partition on that
disk.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX

Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3528.0331) in Win8.1 Pro with Media
Center


"Andrew Wilson" wrote in message ...

I'll try and explain further.
Disk A containing Windows XP
Disk B containing WinXP clone of Disk A
Disk C containing Windows 7

I then cloned Disk C to Disk B using Acronis True Image 2014 as space was
limited on Disk C and Disk B was much larger capacity.

I now have:
Disk A containing Windows XP
Disk B containing clone of Disk C (Widows 7)
Disk B containing original Windows 7

I can still access both Disk A and Disk C on dual boot but the cloned Disk B
gives me 'NTLDR is missing' when I change BIOS to boot from that disk.

I am willing to sacrifice Disk A if it means that I can boot from Disk B.

Thanks
Andrew

". . .winston" wrote in message ...

Andrew Wilson wrote:
Thanks Winston.
System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard
disks then it automatically became dual boot from then on.
I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't
realise that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this
one of the options in Acronis?
Thanks
Andrew


If you installed Win7 on the same original system that XP was present
and that created a dual boot menu...the XP system drive was where the
original Win7 placed its boot manager files (i.e. the XP partition had
both XP's unique and Win7's unique boot manager files).

What you've yet to provide is what you have on each of those disks
- Is XP and Win7 still reside on the 80GB Disk
- Is Win7 also (after cloning) the sole o/s on the 'larger capacity'
disk ?
- Is XP and Win7 (after cloning both) on the new larger capacity disk

Bottom line, one can't just clone one operating system from a dual boot
system to another drive and expect it to boot.

It would have made more sense based on information provided so far to
disconnect the XP Drive, install Win7 to the larger drive (install, not
clone) and then use the BIOS option function key or changing drives in
the BIOS (assuming either is an available option) to boot from another
connected drive...once Win7 was working and comfortable on the larger
drive then wipe (format the entire XP/Win7 80 GB dual boot drive).


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

  #12  
Old August 3rd 14, 06:39 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default NTLDR is missing

Andrew Wilson wrote:
I'll try and explain further.
Disk A containing Windows XP
Disk B containing WinXP clone of Disk A
Disk C containing Windows 7

I then cloned Disk C to Disk B using Acronis True Image 2014 as space
was limited on Disk C and Disk B was much larger capacity.

I now have:
Disk A containing Windows XP
Disk B containing clone of Disk C (Widows 7)
Disk B containing original Windows 7

I can still access both Disk A and Disk C on dual boot but the cloned
Disk B gives me 'NTLDR is missing' when I change BIOS to boot from that
disk.

I am willing to sacrifice Disk A if it means that I can boot from Disk B.

Thanks
Andrew

". . .winston" wrote in message ...

Andrew Wilson wrote:
Thanks Winston.
System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard
disks then it automatically became dual boot from then on.
I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't
realise that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this
one of the options in Acronis?
Thanks
Andrew


If you installed Win7 on the same original system that XP was present
and that created a dual boot menu...the XP system drive was where the
original Win7 placed its boot manager files (i.e. the XP partition had
both XP's unique and Win7's unique boot manager files).

What you've yet to provide is what you have on each of those disks
- Is XP and Win7 still reside on the 80GB Disk
- Is Win7 also (after cloning) the sole o/s on the 'larger capacity'
disk ?
- Is XP and Win7 (after cloning both) on the new larger capacity disk

Bottom line, one can't just clone one operating system from a dual boot
system to another drive and expect it to boot.

It would have made more sense based on information provided so far to
disconnect the XP Drive, install Win7 to the larger drive (install, not
clone) and then use the BIOS option function key or changing drives in
the BIOS (assuming either is an available option) to boot from another
connected drive...once Win7 was working and comfortable on the larger
drive then wipe (format the entire XP/Win7 80 GB dual boot drive).


Why not take a snapshot (jpg or png) file of Disk Management and share
it via an image sharing service
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...aring_websites

As RC noted, there are no Disk A, B, C, etc.
- Disks have numbers
- Partitions have assigned drive letters.

Disk Management will show Disks (there number) and partitions, the
partition used for the System (bootloader files) and the Boot (the
operating system).


--
...winston
msft mvp consumer apps
  #13  
Old August 3rd 14, 09:51 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Jasen Betts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 148
Default NTLDR is missing

On 2014-08-03, R. C. White wrote:

Each physical disk, such as Disk 0, can be partitioned into a single
partition or into multiple partitions. Each partition (aka "drive" aka
"volume") can be assigned a letter (Drive A:, Drive C:, Drive X:, etc.), and
must be formatted before it can be used to store folders and files.

So there may be a Drive A:, but never a Disk A. And Drive A: is only a
partition, not an entire disk, even if that is the only partition on that
disk.


except that A: is usually a floppy and floppies are usually not
partitioned, but instead formatted whole-disc

--
umop apisdn


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
  #14  
Old August 3rd 14, 12:34 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Andrew Wilson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default NTLDR is missing



"Paul" wrote in message ...

Andrew Wilson wrote:
Hello
I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and
it is running how I want but now short on space.
I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity
hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk.
I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this
larger disk to boot.
Help please?
Thanks
Andrew


This means that the disk you moved the OS to, doesn't have
the right MBR code to boot Windows 7. So the cloning software
did move the C: partition over, but it did not correct the
440 bytes of boot code in the MBR. If you knew how to move
that code from the old disk, without bringing over the
64 byte primary partition table, it can be fixed that
way as well.

This is an equivalent of "fixmbr", only for Windows 7.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...(v=WS.10).aspx

bootsect.exe /nt60 E:

Using "nt52" would cause 'NTLDR is missing' on an attempt to
boot Windows 7. Using "nt60" would hook into winload and BCD
related stuff.

The drive letter E: in that example, is to help point the
program at the correct disk. If you're doing maintenance
from another disk, it's important to pick a drive letter
which is on the affected (busted) disk. With a little
careless inattention, you could break all the disks. If
that happens, boot the Recovery Console from a Windows 7 installer
DVD, and you can do more commands like that from there.

I think there's another command that can fix that.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392

Bootrec.exe /FixMbr

The Bootrec command might be more "friendly" than bootsect,
if you had to choose between the two.

*******

On a two partition install, you move both OS partitions.
Both your C: and your SYSTEM RESERVED. So if you see
a SYSTEM RESERVED, it has to be transferred over as well.
I have my Windows 7 setup now, to not use a SYSTEM RESERVED,
so on my laptop, I would only need to move C: to a new disk.

HTH,
Paul

System snapshot as requested
http://500px.com/andrew114?utm_mediu...m_source=500px
C Drive is the Win 7 installation that I'm currently using.
D Drive is the cloned C Drive that doesn't boot up.
E Drive is the Win XP drive
Thanks for your advice Paul but could you please explain simply how I call
up D Drive and fix the boot.
Thanks
Andrew


---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

  #15  
Old August 4th 14, 03:19 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default NTLDR is missing

Andrew Wilson wrote:


System snapshot as requested
http://500px.com/andrew114?utm_mediu...m_source=500px

C Drive is the Win 7 installation that I'm currently using.
D Drive is the cloned C Drive that doesn't boot up.
E Drive is the Win XP drive
Thanks for your advice Paul but could you please explain simply how I
call up D Drive and fix the boot.
Thanks
Andrew


80GB | Hitachi C:
Disk 0 | Healthy (Boot, PageFile, Active, CrashDump, Primary Partition)

160GB | Hitachi D:
Disk 1 | Healthy (Active, Primary Partition)

500GB | System E:
Disk 2 | Healthy (System, Active, Primary Partition

On the first disk, the "Boot" means the main OS files are there, as in "C:".
Microsoft reverses the labels from their expected meaning. "Boot" label
means the C:\Windows is here etc.

On the third disk, the "System" means the files are the ones used
to boot the computer, including winload.exe and the BCD files.
They might be stored in this case as E:\BOOT, which would not
normally be there on a WinXP disk. If you found those, you'd
know they were out of place.

So as the computer is booted at the moment, it appears to have starting
booting from Disk 2 (500GB).

*******

Now, try and redraw the picture, in terms of MBRs and Boot Managers.

80GB | MBR=Unknown Win7 C: Boot Manager two entries showing
Disk 0 | Won't boot on as it boots.
its own, a guess

160GB | MBR=??? This disk is marked active, it's your Win7 clone,
Disk 1 | but a clone of an Unknown MBR, leaves ???. This
disk is now inconsistent, for more than one reason.

500GB | MBR=NT60 WinXP C: But MBR overwritten by Win7 install
Disk 2 | Implies there might even be a Boot
folder from Windows 7 on here ?

I would say your BIOS points to Disk 2, when you want anything to
work on this computer. Your BIOS, if pointed to Disk 0, won't
boot, because no proper MBR was loaded there. And since Disk 1
is a clone of Disk 0, it has the same MBR problem. As it stands
now, only a BIOS selection of Disk 2 (500GB), makes anything
work on this computer.

It's possible some disk identifier got changed, in cloning from
Disk 0 to Disk 1. I tried a dumb way of cloning my Windows 7 VM
here, and it keeps the clone in an "Offline" state and complains
about an identifier collision. So Acronis fixed that for you. But
by changing the identifier, it's possible that any Boot folder
on Disk 2, only points to the contents of Disk 0.

*******

Whew. What an (apparent) mess.

This is going to be *way* more complicated to fix than first guessed.

I think this is how you got in the mess.

1) Install WinXP on 500GB Disk 2.
2) Plug in 80GB drive. Boot the WinXP OS. Insert
the Win7 DVD and run "setup.exe" off the DVD.
3) Win7 installer installs, but loads NT60 MBR on 500GB drive.
(Because this is the hard drive pointed to by the BIOS.)
Not on the 80GB drive. In addition, the Win7 Boot folder has
been placed on the WinXP disk. Unplugging the WinXP disk now,
means *no* Windows 7 on the computer will work. Your computer
*only* works right now, if both Disk0 and Disk2 are connected.
No other combination of disks will work. Not even combining
Disk1(clone) with Disk2 will work.
4) To fix this, means getting the boot files off
the WinXP drive, so that the contents of Disk 0 become
self-consistent. Once this is done, a BIOS selection of
Disk 0 would give Win7 managed "Win7/WinXP" boot choices,
while a BIOS selection of Disk 2 would boot straight to WinXP.
Then, an attempt to clone Disk 0 to Disk 1, would work, because
Disk 1 would also be self-consistent.

Maybe someone else will rush in and give a recipe, before
I come up with one. I'd say, to start, I'd start here.
It is not good enough to just copy that Boot folder (if it's
on the 500GB drive), to Disk 0. The associated commands, like
the bcdedit, change the values in the BCD file, so that all
the pointers are correct for self-sufficient operation.
Notice they even copy the Boot folder with robocopy from
Windows 7, as in "robocopy e:\Boot C:\Boot /s" in the
example.

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409

So I'm thinking that's where I'd start, and the next
step would be repeating the Acronis cloning operation from
the 80GB to the 160GB. Once the 80GB is repaired and self-consistent,
only then will clone to 160GB be good enough.

Some take-aways before my next post:

1) Always have backups at your disposal, before doing
stuff like this. In other words, any disks that remain
connected to the computer, could get damaged at any time.
When you don't know what you're doing (which is the case with
me most of the time), a backup can rescue you from your mistake.

Based on how tangled up your system is, at the very least you
need to back up both Disk 0 and Disk 2, before you do anything
else.

2) For OS installations by home users:

Unplug all disks except the blank getting the new OS!!!

I cannot emphasize this enough! This is how all manner of
wonky **** happens. If you leave multiple disks connected,
and you're an IT guy, you'd have to be a Computer Science
major to figure out the side-effects of what you're doing.
For a home user, unplug all but the blank disk where the
new OS is going. The installer DVD cannot "spray" files
all over the computer, leaving you in a (future) mess.
Like this one...

So a bootsect or a bootrec, isn't going to fix this one.
It's worse than that.

Later,
Paul
 




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