If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Rating: | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
Hello
I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and it is running how I want but now short on space. I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk. I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this larger disk to boot. Help please? Thanks Andrew --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
Hi, Andrew.
Win7 does not use NTLDR at all - except when dual-booting into WinXP or prior. Win7 (and Win8) use the new BCD (Boot Configuration Data) kept in the poorly-named "Boot" folder, plus the new "bootmgr" file, both of which must be in the Active (bootable) partition on the disk designated in the BIOS as the current Boot Device. ...changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk. That larger disk still has instructions in its System Partition to look for NTLDR (and NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini, the other two essential startup programs for WinXP - but which don't exist in Win7 or Win8). You'll need to change the startup files on whichever HDD your computer is now trying to boot from - or change the BIOS to boot from the other HDD. Since I haven't used Acronis, I'll let others tell you how to make sure that it "restores" the startup files to the right partition when moving them to a new HDD. RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3528.0331) in Win8.1 Pro with Media Center "Andrew Wilson" wrote in message ... Hello I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and it is running how I want but now short on space. I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk. I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this larger disk to boot. Help please? Thanks Andrew |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
Thanks for this.
It is a dual boot system and I still have one disk that runs XP although that will be formatted for reuse when I am happy with the Win 7 installation. When I boot up normally I get the choice of XP or Win 7 and choose Win 7. When I instruct the BIOS to boot from the larger cloned hard disk however I get the 'NTLDR is missing' without the option of booting from XP or Win7. I would be grateful for any further help. Regards Andrew "R. C. White" wrote in message ecom... Hi, Andrew. Win7 does not use NTLDR at all - except when dual-booting into WinXP or prior. Win7 (and Win8) use the new BCD (Boot Configuration Data) kept in the poorly-named "Boot" folder, plus the new "bootmgr" file, both of which must be in the Active (bootable) partition on the disk designated in the BIOS as the current Boot Device. ...changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk. That larger disk still has instructions in its System Partition to look for NTLDR (and NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini, the other two essential startup programs for WinXP - but which don't exist in Win7 or Win8). You'll need to change the startup files on whichever HDD your computer is now trying to boot from - or change the BIOS to boot from the other HDD. Since I haven't used Acronis, I'll let others tell you how to make sure that it "restores" the startup files to the right partition when moving them to a new HDD. RC -- R. C. White, CPA San Marcos, TX Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010) Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3528.0331) in Win8.1 Pro with Media Center "Andrew Wilson" wrote in message ... Hello I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and it is running how I want but now short on space. I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk. I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this larger disk to boot. Help please? Thanks Andrew --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
Andrew Wilson wrote:
Hello I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and it is running how I want but now short on space. I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk. I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this larger disk to boot. Help please? Andrew Wilson also wrote: It is a dual boot system and I still have one disk that runs XP although that will be formatted for reuse when I am happy with the Win 7 installation. When I boot up normally I get the choice of XP or Win 7 and choose Win 7. When I instruct the BIOS to boot from the larger cloned hard disk however I get the 'NTLDR is missing' without the option of booting from XP or Win7. I would be grateful for any further help. Was this a dual boot system (XP and Win7) before you decided to just clone the Win7 partition ? When you used Acronis 2014 to clone the Win7 image did you include the System Reserved partition (necessary to boot Win7 since it contains the boot loader files). It would be a good idea to provide some information on the installed operating system on the pc before you cloned Win7 with Acronis. - dual boot ? - Win7 installed after XP to make it a dual boot system - etc. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
Thanks Winston.
System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard disks then it automatically became dual boot from then on. I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't realise that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this one of the options in Acronis? Thanks Andrew ". . .winston" wrote in message ... Andrew Wilson wrote: Hello I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and it is running how I want but now short on space. I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk. I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this larger disk to boot. Help please? Andrew Wilson also wrote: It is a dual boot system and I still have one disk that runs XP although that will be formatted for reuse when I am happy with the Win 7 installation. When I boot up normally I get the choice of XP or Win 7 and choose Win 7. When I instruct the BIOS to boot from the larger cloned hard disk however I get the 'NTLDR is missing' without the option of booting from XP or Win7. I would be grateful for any further help. Was this a dual boot system (XP and Win7) before you decided to just clone the Win7 partition ? When you used Acronis 2014 to clone the Win7 image did you include the System Reserved partition (necessary to boot Win7 since it contains the boot loader files). It would be a good idea to provide some information on the installed operating system on the pc before you cloned Win7 with Acronis. - dual boot ? - Win7 installed after XP to make it a dual boot system - etc. -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
Andrew Wilson wrote:
Thanks Winston. System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard disks then it automatically became dual boot from then on. I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't realise that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this one of the options in Acronis? Thanks Andrew If you installed Win7 on the same original system that XP was present and that created a dual boot menu...the XP system drive was where the original Win7 placed its boot manager files (i.e. the XP partition had both XP's unique and Win7's unique boot manager files). What you've yet to provide is what you have on each of those disks - Is XP and Win7 still reside on the 80GB Disk - Is Win7 also (after cloning) the sole o/s on the 'larger capacity' disk ? - Is XP and Win7 (after cloning both) on the new larger capacity disk Bottom line, one can't just clone one operating system from a dual boot system to another drive and expect it to boot. It would have made more sense based on information provided so far to disconnect the XP Drive, install Win7 to the larger drive (install, not clone) and then use the BIOS option function key or changing drives in the BIOS (assuming either is an available option) to boot from another connected drive...once Win7 was working and comfortable on the larger drive then wipe (format the entire XP/Win7 80 GB dual boot drive). -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
"Andrew Wilson" wrote in message
Thanks for this. It is a dual boot system and I still have one disk that runs XP although that will be formatted for reuse when I am happy with the Win 7 installation. When I boot up normally I get the choice of XP or Win 7 and choose Win 7. When I instruct the BIOS to boot from the larger cloned hard disk however I get the 'NTLDR is missing' without the option of booting from XP or Win7. I would be grateful for any further help. This is from memory so check further. There are three files needed to boot XP... boot.ini NTLDR NTdetect.com They need to be in the root of the drive from which you are booting and can simply be copied to that location. Boot.ini is a text file and can be edited with any text editor. It specifies the choices for the boot menu and has the path for each choice. It also specifies the default drive when using a multi-boot system. It sounds as if the path to your boot drive is incorrect in boot.ini; you may or may not be missing one or more of the three necessary files. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
Andrew Wilson wrote:
Hello I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and it is running how I want but now short on space. I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk. I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this larger disk to boot. Help please? Thanks Andrew This means that the disk you moved the OS to, doesn't have the right MBR code to boot Windows 7. So the cloning software did move the C: partition over, but it did not correct the 440 bytes of boot code in the MBR. If you knew how to move that code from the old disk, without bringing over the 64 byte primary partition table, it can be fixed that way as well. This is an equivalent of "fixmbr", only for Windows 7. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...(v=WS.10).aspx bootsect.exe /nt60 E: Using "nt52" would cause 'NTLDR is missing' on an attempt to boot Windows 7. Using "nt60" would hook into winload and BCD related stuff. The drive letter E: in that example, is to help point the program at the correct disk. If you're doing maintenance from another disk, it's important to pick a drive letter which is on the affected (busted) disk. With a little careless inattention, you could break all the disks. If that happens, boot the Recovery Console from a Windows 7 installer DVD, and you can do more commands like that from there. I think there's another command that can fix that. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392 Bootrec.exe /FixMbr The Bootrec command might be more "friendly" than bootsect, if you had to choose between the two. ******* On a two partition install, you move both OS partitions. Both your C: and your SYSTEM RESERVED. So if you see a SYSTEM RESERVED, it has to be transferred over as well. I have my Windows 7 setup now, to not use a SYSTEM RESERVED, so on my laptop, I would only need to move C: to a new disk. HTH, Paul |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
I'll try and explain further.
Disk A containing Windows XP Disk B containing WinXP clone of Disk A Disk C containing Windows 7 I then cloned Disk C to Disk B using Acronis True Image 2014 as space was limited on Disk C and Disk B was much larger capacity. I now have: Disk A containing Windows XP Disk B containing clone of Disk C (Widows 7) Disk B containing original Windows 7 I can still access both Disk A and Disk C on dual boot but the cloned Disk B gives me 'NTLDR is missing' when I change BIOS to boot from that disk. I am willing to sacrifice Disk A if it means that I can boot from Disk B. Thanks Andrew ". . .winston" wrote in message ... Andrew Wilson wrote: Thanks Winston. System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard disks then it automatically became dual boot from then on. I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't realise that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this one of the options in Acronis? Thanks Andrew If you installed Win7 on the same original system that XP was present and that created a dual boot menu...the XP system drive was where the original Win7 placed its boot manager files (i.e. the XP partition had both XP's unique and Win7's unique boot manager files). What you've yet to provide is what you have on each of those disks - Is XP and Win7 still reside on the 80GB Disk - Is Win7 also (after cloning) the sole o/s on the 'larger capacity' disk ? - Is XP and Win7 (after cloning both) on the new larger capacity disk Bottom line, one can't just clone one operating system from a dual boot system to another drive and expect it to boot. It would have made more sense based on information provided so far to disconnect the XP Drive, install Win7 to the larger drive (install, not clone) and then use the BIOS option function key or changing drives in the BIOS (assuming either is an available option) to boot from another connected drive...once Win7 was working and comfortable on the larger drive then wipe (format the entire XP/Win7 80 GB dual boot drive). -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
Sorry forgot to say that Disks A, B and C only have one partition each.
Thanks Andrew "Andrew Wilson" wrote in message ... I'll try and explain further. Disk A containing Windows XP Disk B containing WinXP clone of Disk A Disk C containing Windows 7 I then cloned Disk C to Disk B using Acronis True Image 2014 as space was limited on Disk C and Disk B was much larger capacity. I now have: Disk A containing Windows XP Disk B containing clone of Disk C (Widows 7) Disk B containing original Windows 7 I can still access both Disk A and Disk C on dual boot but the cloned Disk B gives me 'NTLDR is missing' when I change BIOS to boot from that disk. I am willing to sacrifice Disk A if it means that I can boot from Disk B. Thanks Andrew ". . .winston" wrote in message ... Andrew Wilson wrote: Thanks Winston. System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard disks then it automatically became dual boot from then on. I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't realise that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this one of the options in Acronis? Thanks Andrew If you installed Win7 on the same original system that XP was present and that created a dual boot menu...the XP system drive was where the original Win7 placed its boot manager files (i.e. the XP partition had both XP's unique and Win7's unique boot manager files). What you've yet to provide is what you have on each of those disks - Is XP and Win7 still reside on the 80GB Disk - Is Win7 also (after cloning) the sole o/s on the 'larger capacity' disk ? - Is XP and Win7 (after cloning both) on the new larger capacity disk Bottom line, one can't just clone one operating system from a dual boot system to another drive and expect it to boot. It would have made more sense based on information provided so far to disconnect the XP Drive, install Win7 to the larger drive (install, not clone) and then use the BIOS option function key or changing drives in the BIOS (assuming either is an available option) to boot from another connected drive...once Win7 was working and comfortable on the larger drive then wipe (format the entire XP/Win7 80 GB dual boot drive). -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
Andrew Wilson wrote:
I'll try and explain further. Disk A containing Windows XP Disk B containing WinXP clone of Disk A Disk C containing Windows 7 I then cloned Disk C to Disk B using Acronis True Image 2014 as space was limited on Disk C and Disk B was much larger capacity. I now have: Disk A containing Windows XP Disk B containing clone of Disk C (Widows 7) Disk B containing original Windows 7 I can still access both Disk A and Disk C on dual boot but the cloned Disk B gives me 'NTLDR is missing' when I change BIOS to boot from that disk. I am willing to sacrifice Disk A if it means that I can boot from Disk B. Thanks Andrew ". . .winston" wrote in message ... Andrew Wilson wrote: Thanks Winston. System used to be WinXP only until I installed Win7 on one of the hard disks then it automatically became dual boot from then on. I didn't include the System Reserved files in the clone as I didn't realise that I needed to. If I had would this solve my problem? Is this one of the options in Acronis? Thanks Andrew If you installed Win7 on the same original system that XP was present and that created a dual boot menu...the XP system drive was where the original Win7 placed its boot manager files (i.e. the XP partition had both XP's unique and Win7's unique boot manager files). What you've yet to provide is what you have on each of those disks - Is XP and Win7 still reside on the 80GB Disk - Is Win7 also (after cloning) the sole o/s on the 'larger capacity' disk ? - Is XP and Win7 (after cloning both) on the new larger capacity disk Bottom line, one can't just clone one operating system from a dual boot system to another drive and expect it to boot. It would have made more sense based on information provided so far to disconnect the XP Drive, install Win7 to the larger drive (install, not clone) and then use the BIOS option function key or changing drives in the BIOS (assuming either is an available option) to boot from another connected drive...once Win7 was working and comfortable on the larger drive then wipe (format the entire XP/Win7 80 GB dual boot drive). Why not take a snapshot (jpg or png) file of Disk Management and share it via an image sharing service http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...aring_websites As RC noted, there are no Disk A, B, C, etc. - Disks have numbers - Partitions have assigned drive letters. Disk Management will show Disks (there number) and partitions, the partition used for the System (bootloader files) and the Boot (the operating system). -- ...winston msft mvp consumer apps |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
On 2014-08-03, R. C. White wrote:
Each physical disk, such as Disk 0, can be partitioned into a single partition or into multiple partitions. Each partition (aka "drive" aka "volume") can be assigned a letter (Drive A:, Drive C:, Drive X:, etc.), and must be formatted before it can be used to store folders and files. So there may be a Drive A:, but never a Disk A. And Drive A: is only a partition, not an entire disk, even if that is the only partition on that disk. except that A: is usually a floppy and floppies are usually not partitioned, but instead formatted whole-disc -- umop apisdn --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
"Paul" wrote in message ... Andrew Wilson wrote: Hello I installed Windows 7 and my own software/programs to a 80GB hard disk and it is running how I want but now short on space. I then cloned the disk using Acronis True Image 2014 to a larger capacity hard disk and changed BIOS to boot from the larger capacity disk. I get 'NTLDR is missing' and don't know what I need to do to get this larger disk to boot. Help please? Thanks Andrew This means that the disk you moved the OS to, doesn't have the right MBR code to boot Windows 7. So the cloning software did move the C: partition over, but it did not correct the 440 bytes of boot code in the MBR. If you knew how to move that code from the old disk, without bringing over the 64 byte primary partition table, it can be fixed that way as well. This is an equivalent of "fixmbr", only for Windows 7. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...(v=WS.10).aspx bootsect.exe /nt60 E: Using "nt52" would cause 'NTLDR is missing' on an attempt to boot Windows 7. Using "nt60" would hook into winload and BCD related stuff. The drive letter E: in that example, is to help point the program at the correct disk. If you're doing maintenance from another disk, it's important to pick a drive letter which is on the affected (busted) disk. With a little careless inattention, you could break all the disks. If that happens, boot the Recovery Console from a Windows 7 installer DVD, and you can do more commands like that from there. I think there's another command that can fix that. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927392 Bootrec.exe /FixMbr The Bootrec command might be more "friendly" than bootsect, if you had to choose between the two. ******* On a two partition install, you move both OS partitions. Both your C: and your SYSTEM RESERVED. So if you see a SYSTEM RESERVED, it has to be transferred over as well. I have my Windows 7 setup now, to not use a SYSTEM RESERVED, so on my laptop, I would only need to move C: to a new disk. HTH, Paul System snapshot as requested http://500px.com/andrew114?utm_mediu...m_source=500px C Drive is the Win 7 installation that I'm currently using. D Drive is the cloned C Drive that doesn't boot up. E Drive is the Win XP drive Thanks for your advice Paul but could you please explain simply how I call up D Drive and fix the boot. Thanks Andrew --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
NTLDR is missing
Andrew Wilson wrote:
System snapshot as requested http://500px.com/andrew114?utm_mediu...m_source=500px C Drive is the Win 7 installation that I'm currently using. D Drive is the cloned C Drive that doesn't boot up. E Drive is the Win XP drive Thanks for your advice Paul but could you please explain simply how I call up D Drive and fix the boot. Thanks Andrew 80GB | Hitachi C: Disk 0 | Healthy (Boot, PageFile, Active, CrashDump, Primary Partition) 160GB | Hitachi D: Disk 1 | Healthy (Active, Primary Partition) 500GB | System E: Disk 2 | Healthy (System, Active, Primary Partition On the first disk, the "Boot" means the main OS files are there, as in "C:". Microsoft reverses the labels from their expected meaning. "Boot" label means the C:\Windows is here etc. On the third disk, the "System" means the files are the ones used to boot the computer, including winload.exe and the BCD files. They might be stored in this case as E:\BOOT, which would not normally be there on a WinXP disk. If you found those, you'd know they were out of place. So as the computer is booted at the moment, it appears to have starting booting from Disk 2 (500GB). ******* Now, try and redraw the picture, in terms of MBRs and Boot Managers. 80GB | MBR=Unknown Win7 C: Boot Manager two entries showing Disk 0 | Won't boot on as it boots. its own, a guess 160GB | MBR=??? This disk is marked active, it's your Win7 clone, Disk 1 | but a clone of an Unknown MBR, leaves ???. This disk is now inconsistent, for more than one reason. 500GB | MBR=NT60 WinXP C: But MBR overwritten by Win7 install Disk 2 | Implies there might even be a Boot folder from Windows 7 on here ? I would say your BIOS points to Disk 2, when you want anything to work on this computer. Your BIOS, if pointed to Disk 0, won't boot, because no proper MBR was loaded there. And since Disk 1 is a clone of Disk 0, it has the same MBR problem. As it stands now, only a BIOS selection of Disk 2 (500GB), makes anything work on this computer. It's possible some disk identifier got changed, in cloning from Disk 0 to Disk 1. I tried a dumb way of cloning my Windows 7 VM here, and it keeps the clone in an "Offline" state and complains about an identifier collision. So Acronis fixed that for you. But by changing the identifier, it's possible that any Boot folder on Disk 2, only points to the contents of Disk 0. ******* Whew. What an (apparent) mess. This is going to be *way* more complicated to fix than first guessed. I think this is how you got in the mess. 1) Install WinXP on 500GB Disk 2. 2) Plug in 80GB drive. Boot the WinXP OS. Insert the Win7 DVD and run "setup.exe" off the DVD. 3) Win7 installer installs, but loads NT60 MBR on 500GB drive. (Because this is the hard drive pointed to by the BIOS.) Not on the 80GB drive. In addition, the Win7 Boot folder has been placed on the WinXP disk. Unplugging the WinXP disk now, means *no* Windows 7 on the computer will work. Your computer *only* works right now, if both Disk0 and Disk2 are connected. No other combination of disks will work. Not even combining Disk1(clone) with Disk2 will work. 4) To fix this, means getting the boot files off the WinXP drive, so that the contents of Disk 0 become self-consistent. Once this is done, a BIOS selection of Disk 0 would give Win7 managed "Win7/WinXP" boot choices, while a BIOS selection of Disk 2 would boot straight to WinXP. Then, an attempt to clone Disk 0 to Disk 1, would work, because Disk 1 would also be self-consistent. Maybe someone else will rush in and give a recipe, before I come up with one. I'd say, to start, I'd start here. It is not good enough to just copy that Boot folder (if it's on the 500GB drive), to Disk 0. The associated commands, like the bcdedit, change the values in the BCD file, so that all the pointers are correct for self-sufficient operation. Notice they even copy the Boot folder with robocopy from Windows 7, as in "robocopy e:\Boot C:\Boot /s" in the example. http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=409 So I'm thinking that's where I'd start, and the next step would be repeating the Acronis cloning operation from the 80GB to the 160GB. Once the 80GB is repaired and self-consistent, only then will clone to 160GB be good enough. Some take-aways before my next post: 1) Always have backups at your disposal, before doing stuff like this. In other words, any disks that remain connected to the computer, could get damaged at any time. When you don't know what you're doing (which is the case with me most of the time), a backup can rescue you from your mistake. Based on how tangled up your system is, at the very least you need to back up both Disk 0 and Disk 2, before you do anything else. 2) For OS installations by home users: Unplug all disks except the blank getting the new OS!!! I cannot emphasize this enough! This is how all manner of wonky **** happens. If you leave multiple disks connected, and you're an IT guy, you'd have to be a Computer Science major to figure out the side-effects of what you're doing. For a home user, unplug all but the blank disk where the new OS is going. The installer DVD cannot "spray" files all over the computer, leaving you in a (future) mess. Like this one... So a bootsect or a bootrec, isn't going to fix this one. It's worse than that. Later, Paul |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|