Windows Live Mail

In ,
Blue typed:
BillW50 wrote:
In ,
Blue typed:
BillW50 wrote:
In ,
Blue typed:
BillW50 wrote:
"Johnny" wrote in message
...
On 03/05/2014 02:23 PM, Blue wrote:
Wildman wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 15:00:59 +0100, Blue wrote:

BillW50 wrote:

I am wondering how she is coping with Thunderbird constant
freeze ups? I was playing with older backup copies from
2007. And I saw no freezing with Thunderbird v1.5.0.8. So I
wonder what version TB started freezing? I know it is there
in v12 too.

Funny, my TB, which is *always* up-to-date, has never froze.
And I use TB with 12 email accounts. I don't use TB for
newsgroups, preferring to keep things separate and using
Seamonkey.

I've never had a problem either. I use both the windows and
*nix versions and have for several years.

I've used it since Netscape.

I have used it since Netscape also.

About a year ago I was typing a message to a newsgroup and I
noticed the on screen letters weren't keeping up with the
keyboard. I would stop typing and it would catch up.

I traced the problem down to the Shockwave Flash plugin in
Firefox, it was showing 100 percent CPU usage. What was strange,
was that it would do it only on one website, and that happened
to be my home page, and where I read all the news.

I contacted the news station and told them about it, and even
the advertisement that was causing it.

It hasn't happened again. Now you can set Flash to ask to
activate.

Sure the news station will fix it, but Mozilla won't.

Mozilla makes Shockwave? Since when?

Nobody said Mozilla makes Shockwave.

You did.

No I didn't.

What was being fixed? Shockwave? Reread what you wrote.

NO YOU STILL DON'T GET IT! Other software can deal with an add on gone
wild. This is known as good programming. Programs that assumes
everything only works if everything is perfect is poorly written
software.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

On 3/6/14 6:03 AM, Blue wrote:
BillW50 wrote:
In ,
Blue typed:
BillW50 wrote:
In ,
Blue typed:
BillW50 wrote:
"Johnny" wrote in message
...
On 03/05/2014 02:23 PM, Blue wrote:
Wildman wrote:
On Wed, 05 Mar 2014 15:00:59 +0100, Blue wrote:

BillW50 wrote:

I am wondering how she is coping with Thunderbird constant
freeze ups? I was playing with older backup copies from 2007.
And I saw no freezing with Thunderbird v1.5.0.8. So I wonder
what version TB started freezing? I know it is there in v12
too.

Funny, my TB, which is *always* up-to-date, has never froze.
And I use TB with 12 email accounts. I don't use TB for
newsgroups, preferring to keep things separate and using
Seamonkey.

I've never had a problem either. I use both the windows and *nix
versions and have for several years.

I've used it since Netscape.

I have used it since Netscape also.

About a year ago I was typing a message to a newsgroup and I
noticed the on screen letters weren't keeping up with the
keyboard. I would stop typing and it would catch up.

I traced the problem down to the Shockwave Flash plugin in
Firefox, it was showing 100 percent CPU usage. What was strange,
was that it would do it only on one website, and that happened to
be my home page, and where I read all the news.

I contacted the news station and told them about it, and even the
advertisement that was causing it.

It hasn't happened again. Now you can set Flash to ask to
activate.

Sure the news station will fix it, but Mozilla won't.

Mozilla makes Shockwave? Since when?

Nobody said Mozilla makes Shockwave.

You did.

No I didn't.


What was being fixed? Shockwave? Reread what you wrote.

Blue, you've misinterpreted BillW50's statement. Granted, you can
interpret it the way you did. But I didn't. I interpreted the
statement as Mozilla won't fix the problem because Shockwave does not
belong to Mozilla.

If BillW50 had added that to his sentence, no one's nose would be bent
out of shape. :-)


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.3.0

On 3/6/14 6:01 AM, Blue wrote:
BillW50 wrote:
In ,
Blue typed:
BillW50 wrote:
In ,
Blue typed:
BillW50 wrote:
"Blue" wrote in message
...
BillW50 wrote:
"Blue" wrote in message
...
BillW50 wrote:
"Bob Henson" wrote in message
...
On 05/03/2014 1:38 PM, BillW50 wrote:
"Adam Kubias" wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-04 9:34 PM, Windows8 User wrote:

Can somebody confirm that Version 14.0. 8117.0416 is the
last version that is not broken and can be safely used on
Windows 8 RTM 64Bit machine. I had to recover my Toshiba
machine which had Windows 8.1 free upgrade but it was
crashing all the time so I decided to recover it and see
if it works this time otherwise I'll have to return it for
a replacement.
I was helping my grandmother trying to set up Windows Live
Mail so she could use the Kodak printer's email scanned
document feature.

Eventually, I gave up and resorted to TB.

I am wondering how she is coping with Thunderbird constant
freeze ups? I was playing with older backup copies from 2007.
And I saw no freezing with Thunderbird v1.5.0.8. So I wonder
what version TB started freezing? I know it is there in v12
too.

Since 24.3.0 is the current version, the best bet would be to
leave all ancient versions alone and use that. However, I
don't know what you were doing wrong, but I have never had any
freezing with any version of Thunderbird from its inception
many years ago.

I don't know how you didn't get the memo? As it is the number
one of Thunderbird on the net.

Google search results aren't credible proof. Just because others
did something stupid like whatever you did doesn't make it a
fact. If it were a flaw in the software, it would happen to
everyone.

I did something stupid? Ok Mr Know-It-All, what would that be?

I have no idea.

Everybody else knows Thunderbird is filled with bugs. It is a
hardcore bugware enthusiast dream come true. ;-)

Bug List
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist...ch=thunderbird

It's worked find for me since Netscape in 97. Mozilla, unlike MS,
tracks and fixes bugs. BFD.

Which is odd since the same bugs are in version after version and
build after build. Heck I am beta testing FF v28 and the same bug
is still there in all of the builds of v28 and v29 too. They just
don't seem to care.

You really need to find some way to show it isn't your fault, don't
you? IF the "bug" you're experiencing was true, *everyone* would be
experiencing it and they're not.

Gosh, you don't know anything about computers, do you? The bug is in
everybody's copy! For example, you admit you don't use get messages
in Thunderbird every x amount of minutes and you don't see it.

I have all my twelve email accounts checking every 10 minutes.

Of course not,

See above.

Snip insults.

Then why lie below and say you didn't?

In ,
Blue typed on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:43 PM:
BillW50 wrote:
Although I can see from the log that whenever Thunderbird is checking
for new messages (every 5 minutes) in newsgroups

Something I don't have TB configured to do. You can use the F5 key to
refresh. Try it without this enabled.


You were talking about "messages" which can either be an email message
or a newsgroup message. In fact, I don't do newsgroups in TB. I use
Seamonkey for that to keep things separate so I don't mistakenly email
someone instead of posting a news group message. Why you have newsgroups
polling for new messages is beyond me because it's not necessary as you
can either click on the group or the little arrow next the news server
and messages will be downloaded. Once you're in a group you can hit F5
to download any new messages.

You have TB or any newsgroup reader poll for new messages because that's
the sort of mundane job computers are supposed to do for you. Been that
way since the 8 bit days.

You may prefer to do it manually, and that's fine. But don't berate
others for having the computer actually do something it's built to do
for you.

It's obvious you don't like Thunderbird. Don't use it and watch your
Thunderbird problems go away.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.3.0

On 3/6/14 5:53 AM, Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
Blue wrote:

BillW50 wrote more bull****:
Gosh, you don't know anything about computers, do you?

When you have nothing worthwhile to say, insult the poster. Yeah, that's
your ticket. You do it all the time.

The bug is in
everybody's copy! For example, you admit you don't use get messages in
Thunderbird every x amount of minutes and you don't see it.

I have all my twelve email accounts checking every 10 minutes.

I have fifteen email accounts in my Thunderbird, and every one of them
checks for mail every NN minutes - the more important ones, either 10 or
30 minutes, and the less important ones, from two to four hours.

I've never experienced Bull****Bill's problem with "freeze ups" in any
version of Thunderbird, from 0.2 to the present.

BTS, did you not see my post where I have the freeze problem BillW50 is
referring to? And I mentioned a thread in another newsgroup where there
was a discussion as to the possible cause.

Plus, not everyone sees or has the problem!


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.3.0

BillW50 wrote:
In ,
Blue typed:
BillW50 wrote:
In ,
Blue typed:
BillW50 wrote:
In ,
Blue typed:
BillW50 wrote:
"Blue" wrote in message
...
BillW50 wrote:
"Blue" wrote in message
...
BillW50 wrote:
"Bob Henson" wrote in message
...
On 05/03/2014 1:38 PM, BillW50 wrote:
"Adam Kubias" wrote in message
...
On 2014-03-04 9:34 PM, Windows8 User wrote:

Can somebody confirm that Version 14.0. 8117.0416 is the
last version that is not broken and can be safely used on
Windows 8 RTM 64Bit machine. I had to recover my Toshiba
machine which had Windows 8.1 free upgrade but it was
crashing all the time so I decided to recover it and see
if it works this time otherwise I'll have to return it
for a replacement.
I was helping my grandmother trying to set up Windows Live
Mail so she could use the Kodak printer's email scanned
document feature.

Eventually, I gave up and resorted to TB.

I am wondering how she is coping with Thunderbird constant
freeze ups? I was playing with older backup copies from
2007. And I saw no freezing with Thunderbird v1.5.0.8. So
I wonder what version TB started freezing? I know it is
there in v12 too.

Since 24.3.0 is the current version, the best bet would be
to leave all ancient versions alone and use that. However, I
don't know what you were doing wrong, but I have never had
any freezing with any version of Thunderbird from its
inception many years ago.

I don't know how you didn't get the memo? As it is the number
one of Thunderbird on the net.

Google search results aren't credible proof. Just because
others did something stupid like whatever you did doesn't
make it a fact. If it were a flaw in the software, it would
happen to everyone.

I did something stupid? Ok Mr Know-It-All, what would that be?

I have no idea.

Everybody else knows Thunderbird is filled with bugs. It is a
hardcore bugware enthusiast dream come true. ;-)

Bug List
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist...ch=thunderbird

It's worked find for me since Netscape in 97. Mozilla, unlike
MS, tracks and fixes bugs. BFD.

Which is odd since the same bugs are in version after version and
build after build. Heck I am beta testing FF v28 and the same bug
is still there in all of the builds of v28 and v29 too. They just
don't seem to care.

You really need to find some way to show it isn't your fault,
don't you? IF the "bug" you're experiencing was true, *everyone*
would be experiencing it and they're not.

Gosh, you don't know anything about computers, do you? The bug is
in everybody's copy! For example, you admit you don't use get
messages in Thunderbird every x amount of minutes and you don't
see it.

I have all my twelve email accounts checking every 10 minutes.

Of course not,

See above.

Snip insults.

Then why lie below and say you didn't?

In ,
Blue typed on Wednesday, February 19, 2014 5:43 PM:
BillW50 wrote:
Although I can see from the log that whenever Thunderbird is
checking for new messages (every 5 minutes) in newsgroups

Something I don't have TB configured to do. You can use the F5 key
to refresh. Try it without this enabled.

You were talking about "messages" which can either be an email message
or a newsgroup message. In fact, I don't do newsgroups in TB.

Later, I mentioned the problem is there whether you use TB just for
email or just newsgroups or both you clown!

I use Seamonkey for that to keep things separate so I don't mistakenly
email someone instead of posting a news group message. Why you have
newsgroups polling for new messages is beyond me because it's not
necessary as you can either click on the group or the little arrow
next the news server and messages will be downloaded. Once you're in a
group you can hit F5 to download any new messages.

Yes I know.

It's obvious you don't like Thunderbird. Don't use it and watch your
Thunderbird problems go away.

Why you little lowlife liar! YOU BET I WANT THIS FIXED! I wouldn't even
waste my time talking about it you little troll! TB has a big advantage
for me since it is easily made portable so it could be easily synced to
all of my machines in seconds. Why wouldn't I want this fixed you liar?


Plonk.

--
Blue

On 3/6/14 2:27 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 05/03/2014 9:03 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 3/5/14 12:07 PM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 05/03/2014 6:56 PM, BillW50 wrote:
"Blue" wrote in message
...
BillW50 wrote:

Although the number one complaint about TB is it freezes
up too often.


Define "number one".

Of all of the Thunderbird complaints that I hear, the freezing problems
shows up more often than any other one. Ken Springer even mentioned it
just today.


I've used it since it first started and freezing is not a thing I have
ever seen on all the versions of Windows since then and on several Linux
versions - although, like all programs, it has had a few problems that
is not one of them. Maybe it was something to so with the local system,
not Thunderbird?

Just because you have not experienced the bug, does not mean it isn't
real.

No, that's true - but it does mean it's a local problem, otherwise
everyone would have it. Bearing in mind how few complaints there have
been out of all the many thousands (millions?) using Thunderbird, it can
safely be said that it's not just a bug per se, but a local interaction
with Thunderbird. Were they all Mac users like yourself, for example?
Were they using another variety of Linux? Were they using Windows 8? I
reported a bug a while back which happens in every instance on every
machine - purely an error in Thunderbird. There is a marked difference
between that and a problem that has happened to a tiny, weeny minority
of users.

You hardly ever see things from Mac users. The people discussing the
issue were either Windows or Linux users, but I don't know the split.
Could this be caused by something relating to your internet connection?

Someone in this thread, I think, commented he traced the problem for him
to Shockwave running in Firefox. I disabled Shockwave in FF here, and I
can't swear to it, but I believe I had BillW50's freeze up once.



I get it quite often, and I believe it happens when TB is checking for
new messages. If that is the case, if you don't check for messages
automatically, or you have a long time frame between checks, you may
never notice it.

Ah, well then the problem lies with your news server not responding, or
something in the long path to it, not TB. I've just had to switch from
Eternal-September back to Albasani as E-S has been struggling of late.
Sometimes it's the other way around (that's why I have two accounts
setup - because I regularly have to switch) - did you check news-servers
with all the people with a problem? The free news servers are prone to
overloading and down time - but it has got nothing to do with
Thunderbird, despite what the owner says (frequently). The same applies
to e-mail servers - TalkTalk e-mail is down more than it is up, and
causes similar delays. We appear to have a different definition of what
constitutes a bug in Thunderbird - I don't count something that is only
down entirely to external influences in a tiny number of cases.

We don't know that it's a newsserver. I have 3 of those, plus 2 email
servers(?), so it could be any one or combo. That's logical to me. :-)

The HTML editor seems to have a number of issues. Apparently those
issues have been there a very long time, and Mozilla apparently knows
about some of them. I've got a list of 12 here on a sticky note.

There I agree with you entirely - some have been there from the very
outset. Mozilla will never fix them as it means digging a long way back
into the code, and they can't find any devs prepared to take it on. The
devs are only interested in adding trendy new bells and whistles that
no-one wants or needs. Since they aren't doing much of that now either,
what are they doing? The editor (in HTML and plain text) is badly flawed
with regard to inserting blank space. This remained totally unknown to
perhaps 98% of users (it may not even be on your list) - but it was a
real bug, as it affected all instances of Thunderbird. It didn't show up
until you used PGP, when the bug broke the encryption. It never has been
fixed, because Enigmail came along and provided a workaround for the
problem by encoding after the junk had been added (I believe - it was
many years ago and my memory is getting old too).

I have no faith in Mozilla here either. You would think they would have
some pride in their work, but obviously they don't. Which is why, when
I'm ready to let go of the money, I'll be buying Office for Mac 2011 and
install Outlook. But I need to located a newsgroup reader first.


I've given up on reporting bugs to FOSS software. The attitude of too
many programmers/developers seems to be, if they aren't interested, they
aren't going to fix them. And if they aren't going to fix things that
don't work for me, why should I use the software, or donate my time to
identify issues? Or, even support it with a financial donation?



Again, we are in complete agreement. I reported what I consider to be a
major bug some time back - well over a year now. It hasn't even been
adopted by anyone, never mind had anything done about it. I think we can
safely say that Thunderbird has more or less ceased development.
Unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know which, it's still the best
free e-mail/newsgroup program by a country mile, so we must take
consolation in the fact that whatever else it is, it knocks the spots
off the evil WLM, and any other competition there is - although Claws is
quite good, and still being supported.

To me, being free just isn't good enough of a reason to continue to use
any software that causes you problems. That's why I've given up on
Libre Office. Currently using iWorks 09 now on the Mac. For Windows,
Softmaker Office free. If I like it, I'll upgrade to the paid version.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.3.0

On 3/6/14 3:04 AM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 05/03/2014 9:03 PM, Ken Springer wrote:
On 3/5/14 12:07 PM, Bob Henson wrote:
On 05/03/2014 6:56 PM, BillW50 wrote:
"Blue" wrote in message
...
BillW50 wrote:

Although the number one complaint about TB is it freezes
up too often.


Define "number one".

Of all of the Thunderbird complaints that I hear, the freezing problems
shows up more often than any other one. Ken Springer even mentioned it
just today.


I've used it since it first started and freezing is not a thing I have
ever seen on all the versions of Windows since then and on several Linux
versions - although, like all programs, it has had a few problems that
is not one of them. Maybe it was something to so with the local system,
not Thunderbird?

Just because you have not experienced the bug, does not mean it isn't
real. That point seems to have been lost here. In the thread in the
Mozilla newsgroup, not everyone experienced it either. But there was
discussion as to why it may happen from a programming perspective.


I see you now think it may be down to Shockwave? That's the very point I
was making - it's not a bug in Thunderbird if it is caused by something
else entirely. In your message in mozilla.support.thunderbird you said
it might be down to Shockwave in Firefox - not Thunderbird - I assume
that was a typo. However, I have Shockwave Flash and Shockwave for
Director plug-ins installed in both Thunderbird and Firefox and it
doesn't happen here - so that's not the answer, unless something else is
involved. I'd keep looking at the News server or the path to it.

I wasn't the one who narrowed the problem to Shockwave, it was someone
else. I'm just testing his solution, and I think if failed. But, I'm
too tired to remember for sure, just got off the overnight shift, and
need some shut eye.

If any of the few people that have the problem find it really annoying,
switching to using plain text might be a workaround?

Maybe. But, that means you are moving back in time rather than forward.
Sort of like insisting on driving that 1989 car instead of a modern
vehicle. G


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 25.0
Thunderbird 24.3.0

On 06/03/2014 4:31 PM, Ken Springer wrote:

about some of them. I've got a list of 12 here on a sticky note.

There I agree with you entirely - some have been there from the very
outset. Mozilla will never fix them as it means digging a long way back
into the code, and they can't find any devs prepared to take it on. The
devs are only interested in adding trendy new bells and whistles that
no-one wants or needs. Since they aren't doing much of that now either,
what are they doing? The editor (in HTML and plain text) is badly flawed
with regard to inserting blank space. This remained totally unknown to
perhaps 98% of users (it may not even be on your list) - but it was a
real bug, as it affected all instances of Thunderbird. It didn't show up
until you used PGP, when the bug broke the encryption. It never has been
fixed, because Enigmail came along and provided a workaround for the
problem by encoding after the junk had been added (I believe - it was
many years ago and my memory is getting old too).

I have no faith in Mozilla here either. You would think they would have
some pride in their work, but obviously they don't. Which is why, when
I'm ready to let go of the money, I'll be buying Office for Mac 2011 and
install Outlook. But I need to located a newsgroup reader first.

I've got Outlook, and it's by far the best for e-mail - but the only
snag is GpG doesn't work with it. However I don't use it much anyway.
There are one or two good news reader programs, I settled on 40tude
Dialog - but others have their own favourites. I may go back to them -
I'm certainly fed up with Mozilla's inactivetty regarding anything useful/

To me, being free just isn't good enough of a reason to continue to use
any software that causes you problems. That's why I've given up on
Libre Office. Currently using iWorks 09 now on the Mac. For Windows,
Softmaker Office free. If I like it, I'll upgrade to the paid version.


I've got the full versions of Microsoft Office 2007 from before I
retired, so I shall continue with that - no more updates though, at
those prices!


--
Bob - Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK

Naturist - a person who prefers to go about naked, thus reminding others
why they prefer wearing clothes.

Blue wrote:

BillW50 wrote:

Why you little lowlife liar!

Typical. Bull****Bill has nothing significant to say, so he attacks the
poster, making **** up.

Plonk.

Yep.

--
-bts
-This space for rent, but the price is high

Ken Springer wrote:

BTS, did you not see my post where I have the freeze problem BillW50 is
referring to?

No, I don't remember that I did. My reason for participating in this
discussion is because Bull****Bill said *everyone* has his problem. I
replied, stating that *I* do not have this problem, ever. Then he started
calling me names and calling me a liar for stating my experiences.

If he were a nicer guy, I might invite him to my house to watch my
computer for a day or two. Then he'd shut up.

--
-bts
-This space for rent, but the price is high

"...winston‫" wrote:

Having the full installer is always a good idea regardless of the
version (2009, 2011, 2012).

2012 requires Win7 Sp1 and Win8x.
2011 requires Vista SP2 or Win7 SP1
- thus both should continue to be available.

From a use and support perspective there really is no business value
for MSFT to continue to host XP specific versions of their software.

I'm assuming that "wlsetup-all.exe" means it's the installer that
contains all componentns of Windows [Live] Essentials. They seem too
big to contain only Windows Live Mail.

2009 wlsetup-all.exe = 134 MB
2011 wlsetup-all.exe = 214 MB (big jump there)
2012 wlsetup-all.exe = 130 MB

Why the big jump in size for the 2011 installer?

While I've repeatedly trialed WLM along with other e-mail clients, I've
found WLM has problems and not to my liking regarding behaviors.
However, I decided to download these in case I want them later or
someone else wants one of them. I haven't bothered to [re]install them
so I can look at the EULA to see if there would be a problem with
uploading them to a well-known archival site, like oldversion.com.

In ,
Beauregard T. Shagnasty typed:
Ken Springer wrote:

BTS, did you not see my post where I have the freeze problem BillW50
is referring to?

No, I don't remember that I did. My reason for participating in this
discussion is because Bull****Bill said *everyone* has his problem. I
replied, stating that *I* do not have this problem, ever. Then he
started calling me names and calling me a liar for stating my
experiences.

If he were a nicer guy, I might invite him to my house to watch my
computer for a day or two. Then he'd shut up.

Whoa, whoa! I never said everybody has this problem. I did say though
the bug is in everybody's TB though (assuming the TB version is the same
and build). That is huge difference. Some will run into that code and
some will not.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

BillW50 wrote:

""...winston?"" wrote in message
...
[...]
From a use and support perspective there really is no business value
for MSFT to continue to host XP specific versions of their software.

Really? Microsoft has no interest in cashing in on XP users? Why did it
make business sense for Microsoft to continue to issue "OEM licensing
for Windows for Workgroups 3.11 on embedded systems continued to be
available until November 1, 2008" then?

Windows 3.1x - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1x

Did you notice the term "embedded systems"? That is NOT a general
purpose computer that end users have. Those are locked setups aka
turnkey systems. The users often don't even know what OS is running on
the hardware. How many cashiers know the register is using Windows 95?
The OS is not the full featured one you get when you install the OS. It
has been stripped to provide an OS only sufficient to load and run the
proprietary software that is also embedded into the system. They're so
locked down that users rarely can alter them. There are embedded setup
still running MS-DOS, or PC-DOS, or Dr-DOS, or some other DOS. They
merely need the minimal OS on which to load and run the software. There
aren't many assemblers left or those that code specifically to an
extremely narrow range of firmware. Yeah, way back I used to code to
Univac/Sperry/Unisys and had to do low-level coding to even know the
parsing on machine instructions because I delved that low in hardware QA
but those wanting to setup POS (that's Point of Sale, not Piece of ****)
systems don't have the time to waste at that level.

The user never gets to use the OS in an embedded system. They just get
to use the UI of which they are presented. The DOS-based embedded
system (i.e., non-general purpose computers) have problems with
networking so have to add something for that. WFW had networking built
in and why it was used for a long time. The users didn't know and
didn't care that WFW was running as the stripped down OS. They only
cared, for example, that the scanner worked, the check verification
could call in, or pressing the hamburger icon meant playing an order for
one.

In ,
VanguardLH typed:
BillW50 wrote:

""...winston?"" wrote in message
...
[...]
From a use and support perspective there really is no business value
for MSFT to continue to host XP specific versions of their software.

Really? Microsoft has no interest in cashing in on XP users? Why did
it make business sense for Microsoft to continue to issue "OEM
licensing for Windows for Workgroups 3.11 on embedded systems
continued to be available until November 1, 2008" then?

Windows 3.1x - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1x

Did you notice the term "embedded systems"?

Yes.

That is NOT a general purpose computer that end users have.

Yes.

Those are locked setups aka turnkey systems. The users often don't
even know what OS is running on the hardware. How many cashiers know
the register is using Windows 95? The OS is not the full featured one
you get when you install the OS. It has been stripped to provide an OS
only sufficient to load and run the proprietary software that is also
embedded into the system. They're so locked down that users rarely can
alter them. There are embedded setup still running MS-DOS, or PC-DOS,
or Dr-DOS, or some other DOS. They merely need the minimal OS on which
to load and run the software. There aren't many assemblers left or
those that code specifically to an extremely narrow range of firmware.
Yeah, way back I used to code to Univac/Sperry/Unisys and had to do
low-level coding to even know the parsing on machine instructions
because I delved that low in hardware QA but those wanting to setup
POS (that's Point of Sale, not Piece of ****) systems don't have the
time to waste at that level.

The user never gets to use the OS in an embedded system. They just
get to use the UI of which they are presented. The DOS-based embedded
system (i.e., non-general purpose computers) have problems with
networking so have to add something for that. WFW had networking
built in and why it was used for a long time. The users didn't know
and didn't care that WFW was running as the stripped down OS. They
only cared, for example, that the scanner worked, the check
verification could call in, or pressing the hamburger icon meant
playing an order for one.

Yes indeed! Although do you really believe that Microsoft wants to throw
everything away with XP? There must be like millions of business users
and home users still using it. And you think Microsoft is ok with
ignoring all of them? Really?

You know what I think; I think this is just a scare tactic to scare as
many away from XP as they can. If they succeed, their job is finished.
Although I predict that I would guess like maybe 60% tops might buy that
crap. And even if up to 60% does, Microsoft still has to worry about the
40% that doesn't. And like always in the past, Microsoft will announce
by popular demand, they won't drop XP support totally.

After all they tried to drop XP support before. Then the netbook craze
came in and they had to extend it. This is their second attempt on
killing XP. I know they wish it to happen, but if enough pressure comes
their way they just won't ignore it. Yes Microsoft maybe many things,
but one thing they are not is really stupid. At least not yet. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core2 Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 4GB - Windows XP SP2

BillW50 wrote:
""...winston?"" wrote in message
...
[...]
From a use and support perspective there really is no business value
for MSFT to continue to host XP specific versions of their software.

Really? Microsoft has no interest in cashing in on XP users? Why did it
make business sense for Microsoft to continue to issue "OEM licensing
for Windows for Workgroups 3.11 on embedded systems continued to be
available until November 1, 2008" then?

Windows 3.1x - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_3.1x

The ecosystem has changed...MSFT will never again be everything for
everyone - two operating systems - current and past is the business
model (this was clear and resounding when Win8.0 loses support and
requires a mandatory upgrade to 8.1 or later).

The accrual cost for supporting older out-of-mainstream/extended
support operating systems is a function of the revenue receipts for the
paid support. As XP use declines, so do both...eventually no longer
providing any bottom line benefit.

What was done with WfW3.11 is about as relevant as asking why GM
continued to sell Oldsmobiles when few bought them. (Lol...those same
olds-people were not much different than another declining population -
desktop pc users like you and me)

--
....winston
msft mvp consumer apps