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  #16  
Old February 2nd 13, 05:50 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Local area connection but I can't get on the internet

David H. Lipman wrote:


All devices that deal with RF generate heat as the electronics to deal
with VHF tends to be very lossy in the form of heat. Those devices will
have adequate venting 'cause they were designed with that in mind. As
long as the device (such as a Cable Modem or Cable Modem+Router) has
adequeate ventilation (grills not blocked) and space around it is
sufficient, there is absolutely no reason to supplement its cooling with
a fan. Whiles the implementation of supplemental cooling is not
detrimental, it is indicative of faulty logic in dealing with perceived
computing issues.

Such heat that such RF devices generate will NOT affect an attached
computer's Windows Sockets, TCP/IP stack or data communications. You
are not even in the ballfield and I am again back to a declaration of
PEBCAK. In fact I will now go further and state computer based
Munchausen Syndrome is evident.


You're assuming everyone who makes consumer electronics, is honest.

They're not honest.

Example:

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/785/1/

"The original version 1.0 Linksys SD2008 switches came with a cooling
fan inside, but was removed on later revisions due to the noise level
of the fan."

Clever. Oh so friendly.

I'm fully in favor of consumers taking matters into their own hands.
If it means cutting a hole in the chassis, and fixing nonsense like
that, I'm all for it.

I'm not in favor, of everything you buy, being a "Dremel victim".
But if the consensus is, something has been "designed to screw
consumers", then by all means, fix it. Have at it.

Paul
Ads
  #17  
Old February 2nd 13, 07:34 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Andy[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 337
Default Local area connection but I can't get on the internet

On Saturday, February 2, 2013 10:50:41 AM UTC-6, Paul wrote:
David H. Lipman wrote:





All devices that deal with RF generate heat as the electronics to deal


with VHF tends to be very lossy in the form of heat. Those devices will


have adequate venting 'cause they were designed with that in mind. As


long as the device (such as a Cable Modem or Cable Modem+Router) has


adequeate ventilation (grills not blocked) and space around it is


sufficient, there is absolutely no reason to supplement its cooling with


a fan. Whiles the implementation of supplemental cooling is not


detrimental, it is indicative of faulty logic in dealing with perceived


computing issues.




Such heat that such RF devices generate will NOT affect an attached


computer's Windows Sockets, TCP/IP stack or data communications. You


are not even in the ballfield and I am again back to a declaration of


PEBCAK. In fact I will now go further and state computer based


Munchausen Syndrome is evident.






You're assuming everyone who makes consumer electronics, is honest.



They're not honest.



Example:



http://www.legitreviews.com/article/785/1/



"The original version 1.0 Linksys SD2008 switches came with a cooling

fan inside, but was removed on later revisions due to the noise level

of the fan."



Clever. Oh so friendly.



I'm fully in favor of consumers taking matters into their own hands.

If it means cutting a hole in the chassis, and fixing nonsense like

that, I'm all for it.



I'm not in favor, of everything you buy, being a "Dremel victim".

But if the consensus is, something has been "designed to screw

consumers", then by all means, fix it. Have at it.



Paul


Paul,

You are right.

I don't think everybody is dishonest.

For 20+ years I repaired laboratory instruments as part of my job duties as a chemical lab technician.

Electronics is a hobby I enjoy as well.

Thanks for not being a know-it-all like some others. :-)

Andy
  #18  
Old February 2nd 13, 08:53 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
David H. Lipman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,185
Default Local area connection but I can't get on the internet

From: "Paul"

David H. Lipman wrote:

All devices that deal with RF generate heat as the electronics to deal
with VHF tends to be very lossy in the form of heat. Those devices will
have adequate venting 'cause they were designed with that in mind. As
long as the device (such as a Cable Modem or Cable Modem+Router) has
adequeate ventilation (grills not blocked) and space around it is
sufficient, there is absolutely no reason to supplement its cooling with
a fan. Whiles the implementation of supplemental cooling is not
detrimental, it is indicative of faulty logic in dealing with perceived
computing issues.

Such heat that such RF devices generate will NOT affect an attached
computer's Windows Sockets, TCP/IP stack or data communications. You are
not even in the ballfield and I am again back to a declaration of PEBCAK.
In fact I will now go further and state computer based Munchausen
Syndrome is evident.

You're assuming everyone who makes consumer electronics, is honest.

They're not honest.

Example:

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/785/1/

"The original version 1.0 Linksys SD2008 switches came with a cooling
fan inside, but was removed on later revisions due to the noise level
of the fan."

Clever. Oh so friendly.

I'm fully in favor of consumers taking matters into their own hands.
If it means cutting a hole in the chassis, and fixing nonsense like
that, I'm all for it.

I'm not in favor, of everything you buy, being a "Dremel victim".
But if the consensus is, something has been "designed to screw
consumers", then by all means, fix it. Have at it.

Paul


One can find an exception in almost every case.
It is no wonder that Cisco sold off Linksys to Belkin.

I live by my Dremel. Had two AC versions that lasted 30 years between them.
I just replaced the last AC model with a cordless Lithium Ion, model 8000.

--
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

  #19  
Old February 2nd 13, 09:24 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,291
Default Local area connection but I can't get on the internet

By the way, you emailed this to me as well. I understand Google have
recently made it rather too east to accidentally tick a "Cc" box when
posting.

(It's also making you do double line spacing.)

In message , Andy
writes:
On Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:36:56 AM UTC-6, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Andy

writes:

[]
The router puts off a lot of heat and it has no fan.


I used a 12 V power supply fan to make a custom fan.




So far so good.




Why a 12V fan - is it running from the router's own supply? (Is that

12V?)

[]
The fan is running off a transformer. 120 VAC - 12 V DC.

I made a stand for it and mounted it.


Ah, I see. (I'd been concerned that running it from the router's own
supply would _add_ to the heat problem [like those laptop fans that run
from a USB].)

I save transformers from things I salvage.


You mean power supplies (a transformer only converts AC to AC).

A lot of times I will use it to power some battery powered devices if
portability isn't needed.


Good policy.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said Pooh, as he fell off the bridge with his stick.
  #20  
Old February 2nd 13, 09:28 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Andy[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 337
Default Local area connection but I can't get on the internet

On Saturday, February 2, 2013 2:24:03 PM UTC-6, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
By the way, you emailed this to me as well. I understand Google have

recently made it rather too east to accidentally tick a "Cc" box when

posting.



(It's also making you do double line spacing.)



In message , Andy

writes:

On Saturday, February 2, 2013 3:36:56 AM UTC-6, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:


In message , Andy




writes:


[]

The router puts off a lot of heat and it has no fan.




I used a 12 V power supply fan to make a custom fan.








So far so good.








Why a 12V fan - is it running from the router's own supply? (Is that




12V?)


[]

The fan is running off a transformer. 120 VAC - 12 V DC.




I made a stand for it and mounted it.




Ah, I see. (I'd been concerned that running it from the router's own

supply would _add_ to the heat problem [like those laptop fans that run

from a USB].)



I save transformers from things I salvage.




You mean power supplies (a transformer only converts AC to AC).



A lot of times I will use it to power some battery powered devices if


portability isn't needed.




Good policy.

--

J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf



"Bother," said Pooh, as he fell off the bridge with his stick.


Sorry about sending it accidentally.

I am still not used to the new google.

Andy
  #21  
Old February 2nd 13, 11:00 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,291
Default Local area connection but I can't get on the internet

In message , David H.
Lipman writes:
[]
All devices that deal with RF generate heat as the electronics to deal
with VHF tends to be very lossy in the form of heat. Those devices


All electronics generate heat. Even if VHF-RF devices are particularly
lossy (which I question as a general principle), the amount of it in a
router is minimal - milliwatts - so not that relevant here. (And it's
well above VHF, too: 2.4 GHz mostly, some 5 GHz in some recent devices.)

will have adequate venting 'cause they were designed with that in mind.


How very trusting! (Plus, also, even if it happens to be true in a
particular case, users have a habit of using things in ways they weren't
designed: in hotter than specified temperatures, on their side, with
inadequate ventilation [such as resting on a carpet], ...) I've
certainly encountered equipment running hot enough that I'd be unsure of
its long-term reliability.

As long as the device (such as a Cable Modem or Cable Modem+Router) has
adequeate ventilation (grills not blocked) and space around it is


We're in agreement that those are good ...

sufficient, there is absolutely no reason to supplement its cooling
with a fan. Whiles the implementation of supplemental cooling is not
detrimental, it is indicative of faulty logic in dealing with perceived
computing issues.


While I agree that I wouldn't immediately blame a piece of kit that had
apparently been running hot for a while _before_ the problem occurred, I
wouldn't rule it out either.

Such heat that such RF devices generate will NOT affect an attached
computer's Windows Sockets, TCP/IP stack or data communications. You


It _could_ if all of those communications are going via the device that
is running hot.

are not even in the ballfield and I am again back to a declaration of
PEBCAK. In fact I will now go further and state computer based
Munchausen Syndrome is evident.

You are smug. (I realise I am being a bit, too, in response.) While I
tend to agree with you that the hot device is probably not the cause, I
would not make such absolute statements - and I'd try to find a kinder
way to say so as well.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said Pooh, as he fell off the bridge with his stick.
  #22  
Old February 2nd 13, 11:39 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
David H. Lipman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,185
Default Local area connection but I can't get on the internet

From: "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

In message , David H.
Lipman writes:
[]
All devices that deal with RF generate heat as the electronics to deal
with VHF tends to be very lossy in the form of heat. Those devices


All electronics generate heat. Even if VHF-RF devices are particularly
lossy (which I question as a general principle), the amount of it in a
router is minimal - milliwatts - so not that relevant here. (And it's well
above VHF, too: 2.4 GHz mostly, some 5 GHz in some recent devices.)

will have adequate venting 'cause they were designed with that in mind.


How very trusting! (Plus, also, even if it happens to be true in a
particular case, users have a habit of using things in ways they weren't
designed: in hotter than specified temperatures, on their side, with
inadequate ventilation [such as resting on a carpet], ...) I've certainly
encountered equipment running hot enough that I'd be unsure of its
long-term reliability.

As long as the device (such as a Cable Modem or Cable Modem+Router) has
adequeate ventilation (grills not blocked) and space around it is


We're in agreement that those are good ...

sufficient, there is absolutely no reason to supplement its cooling with
a fan. Whiles the implementation of supplemental cooling is not
detrimental, it is indicative of faulty logic in dealing with perceived
computing issues.


While I agree that I wouldn't immediately blame a piece of kit that had
apparently been running hot for a while _before_ the problem occurred, I
wouldn't rule it out either.

Such heat that such RF devices generate will NOT affect an attached
computer's Windows Sockets, TCP/IP stack or data communications. You


It _could_ if all of those communications are going via the device that is
running hot.


Only in the aspect of more or less of work or not work but not partially
work.




are not even in the ballfield and I am again back to a declaration of


PEBCAK. In fact I will now go further and state computer based

Munchausen Syndrome is evident.

You are smug. (I realise I am being a bit, too, in response.) While I tend
to agree with you that the hot device is probably not the cause, I would
not make such absolute statements - and I'd try to find a kinder way to
say so as well.


This is Usenet and I am not related therefore I can be blunt and not beat
around the bush.

However... I will consider your feedback as a valued POV.


--
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp

  #23  
Old February 3rd 13, 05:14 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Andy[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 337
Default Local area connection but I can't get on the internet

On Saturday, February 2, 2013 4:00:09 PM UTC-6, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , David H.

Lipman writes:

[]

All devices that deal with RF generate heat as the electronics to deal


with VHF tends to be very lossy in the form of heat. Those devices




All electronics generate heat. Even if VHF-RF devices are particularly

lossy (which I question as a general principle), the amount of it in a

router is minimal - milliwatts - so not that relevant here. (And it's

well above VHF, too: 2.4 GHz mostly, some 5 GHz in some recent devices.)



will have adequate venting 'cause they were designed with that in mind.




How very trusting! (Plus, also, even if it happens to be true in a

particular case, users have a habit of using things in ways they weren't

designed: in hotter than specified temperatures, on their side, with

inadequate ventilation [such as resting on a carpet], ...) I've

certainly encountered equipment running hot enough that I'd be unsure of

its long-term reliability.



As long as the device (such as a Cable Modem or Cable Modem+Router) has


adequeate ventilation (grills not blocked) and space around it is




We're in agreement that those are good ...



sufficient, there is absolutely no reason to supplement its cooling


with a fan. Whiles the implementation of supplemental cooling is not


detrimental, it is indicative of faulty logic in dealing with perceived


computing issues.




While I agree that I wouldn't immediately blame a piece of kit that had

apparently been running hot for a while _before_ the problem occurred, I

wouldn't rule it out either.



Such heat that such RF devices generate will NOT affect an attached


computer's Windows Sockets, TCP/IP stack or data communications. You




It _could_ if all of those communications are going via the device that

is running hot.



are not even in the ballfield and I am again back to a declaration of


PEBCAK. In fact I will now go further and state computer based


Munchausen Syndrome is evident.




You are smug. (I realise I am being a bit, too, in response.) While I

tend to agree with you that the hot device is probably not the cause, I

would not make such absolute statements - and I'd try to find a kinder

way to say so as well.

--

J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf



"Bother," said Pooh, as he fell off the bridge with his stick.


It's been 2 days that the fan has been cooling off the router.

I have not had a single loss of internet connectivity.

It's not enuf to prove it was heat related.

But I think it's pretty hard to prove that the cable company is at fault.

Andy
 




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