7 Best Alternatives To Microsoft Office Suite — 2019 Edition

On 12/6/2019 5:11 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Chris" wrote


| They're successful across the board. Azure is their biggest growth area
| over the last few years.
|

Yes, Azure has been a success. But for many years only
Windows and MSO made money. Everything else lost
money. I think XBox may be in the black now. I haven't
checked recently.



I thought Microsoft made "Money."


--
Ken

On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 08:46:28 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Mayayana
wrote:

"Zaghadka" wrote

| you need to update your newsreader to modern standards.
|
| My newsreader handles, displays, and sends it fine. Eternal September
| chokes on it as invalid. I made an oopsie when I said "news readers." I
| meant "news servers."
|
| They probably use only 128 bit ASCII as a matter of principle.

This is a perfect example of ignorance in using computers.

There's no need to use a long UTF-8 dash. There isn't even
a keyboard button for it. UTF-8 is meant to handle
internationalization. It's fine for foreign languages in HTML.
But people using long dashes and curly braces restrict
adaptability for no reason. ASCII is valid UTF-8 but UTF-8
is not ASCII.

We're still experiencing the fallout from Microsoft's freaking "curly
quotes" adventure. I personally don't understand the need to bolt on
"pretty" when straight-up ASCII will do the job. Why mess with
interoperability? I'd leave pretty to desktop publication software, and
Word processors that aspire to be desktop publication software.

On the same token, given memory and storage sizes, and its backward
compatibility with ASCII, why not just use UTF-8 for everything? That's
where we're supposed to be at this point. Universal unicode, right?

Why do things like this continue to be a problem when the problem has
been solved?

However, excepting foreign language groups, why would you use anything
other than ASCII plaintext? It is valid UTF-8.

But that's just me. Someone younger would probably say, "OK Boomer."

We should really warp some minds and switch all of Usenet over to EBCDIC.
New users will think everything on Usenet is encrypted and leave us
alone.

Now get off my lawn.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:42:27 -0700, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Ken Blake
wrote:

On 12/6/2019 5:11 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Chris" wrote


| They're successful across the board. Azure is their biggest growth area
| over the last few years.
|

Yes, Azure has been a success. But for many years only
Windows and MSO made money. Everything else lost
money. I think XBox may be in the black now. I haven't
checked recently.



I thought Microsoft made "Money."

Bu-dump pshh!

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Fri, 06 Dec 2019 13:45:00 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, nospam
wrote:

the reality is that being online is *not* an obstacle.

Ask someone in the rural U.S. about that. We're still rolling out
broadband here.

Let me guess. You live in a major city, don't you?

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

In article , Zaghadka
wrote:


the reality is that being online is *not* an obstacle.

Ask someone in the rural U.S. about that. We're still rolling out
broadband here.

the claim is that people won't know how to get online, despite having
done it for years, not how fast it is.

On Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:41:17 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Paul
wrote:

Paul wrote:
Imhothep wrote:


Lets see if this posts on this server.

I'll try switching my charset to UTF-8,
maybe that will re-code the Subject line for me.

Paul


That got me this as a Subject line.

Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IDcgQmVzdCBBbHRlcm5hdGl2ZXMgVG8gTWljcm9zb2 Z0IE9mZmk=?=
=?UTF-8?B?Y2UgU3VpdGUg4oCUIDIwMTkgRWRpdGlvbg==?=

Versus the original post, which looks like

Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?7_Best_Alternatives_To_Microsoft_Office_Suite_ =e2=80=94_2?=
=?UTF-8?Q?019_Edition?=

I guess there's something to be said for not
re-encoding something too many times.

There's no guarantee that even if I copied the original
subject string into a new post, the encoding would
stay put.

I am gobsmacked that we haven't put this sort of thing to bed yet.

I guess the Tower of Babel is a story of great wisdom.

--
Fi Aman Allah

On Fri, 06 Dec 2019 19:34:36 -0600, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Imhothep
wrote:

On Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:41:17 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Paul
wrote:

Paul wrote:
Imhothep wrote:


Lets see if this posts on this server.

I'll try switching my charset to UTF-8,
maybe that will re-code the Subject line for me.

Paul


That got me this as a Subject line.

Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IDcgQmVzdCBBbHRlcm5hdGl2ZXMgVG8gTWljcm9zb2 Z0IE9mZmk=?=
=?UTF-8?B?Y2UgU3VpdGUg4oCUIDIwMTkgRWRpdGlvbg==?=

Versus the original post, which looks like

Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?7_Best_Alternatives_To_Microsoft_Office_Suite_ =e2=80=94_2?=
=?UTF-8?Q?019_Edition?=

I guess there's something to be said for not
re-encoding something too many times.

There's no guarantee that even if I copied the original
subject string into a new post, the encoding would
stay put.

I am gobsmacked that we haven't put this sort of thing to bed yet.

I guess the Tower of Babel is a story of great wisdom.

Would you look at that? My sig delimeter was messed up!

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:11:53 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Paul
wrote:

Zaghadka wrote:
On Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:01:31 -0500, in alt.comp.os.windows-10, Paul
wrote:
That rule on E-S, exists to stop a single user from messing around :-)

That user has even visited this group, so I won't be naming names.

LOL. Thank you for that nugget, Paul.

And by messing around, I mean, making a nuisance
of themselves. The individual is an active promoter
of "HTML everywhere" for example, even though few group
charters allow that (microsoft.*). The gentleman is a
wizard with fonts.

Right. That gives me a pretty good idea. Interesting.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

"Zaghadka" wrote

| We're still experiencing the fallout from Microsoft's freaking "curly
| quotes" adventure. I personally don't understand the need to bolt on
| "pretty" when straight-up ASCII will do the job. Why mess with
| interoperability?

My feeling, too.

|
| On the same token, given memory and storage sizes, and its backward
| compatibility with ASCII, why not just use UTF-8 for everything? That's
| where we're supposed to be at this point. Universal unicode, right?
|
I've heard that's what Linux does. But that's complicated.
First, most older files are ASCII, or more precisely, ANSI.
People who speak a language other than English will usually
have files that depend on a codepage. ASCII, 1-127, is the
same everywhere, but 128-255 depends on the codepage.
So those older files are not compatible with UTF-8.

Another problem is that UTF-8 may or may not have a
BOM. It's not recommended and generally isn't in HTML
fils, yet Notepad adds it. That can screw things up, so that
a simple ASCII file is still not compatible.

I typically clean up any files I get in UTF-8. They're not
worth the trouble. With webpages it's usually just
non-breaking spaces and curly quotes that make it UTF-8.
And those webpages are in English. So there's no advantage
to UTF-8.

To me it seems that the real motive is political correctness.
Inclusiveness. For us English speakers that's not a reason
to use it.

"Ken Blake" wrote
|
| I thought Microsoft made "Money."
|

I had to look that up. I'd never heard of it. But then
I've never used accounting or tax software. I use a
checkbook and paper/pencil to keep track of my
finances.

On 12/6/19 4:30 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:01:57 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/6/19 10:23 AM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Fri, 6 Dec 2019 07:17:01 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/5/19 9:50 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:07:22 -0700, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 12/5/19 6:54 AM, Mayayana wrote:
So if you think MS and Adobe are going to collapse then
you'll have to start by telling millions of people who work
in offices and graphics shops what Microsoft and Adobe are.
They really don't know. Most don't even know they're using
Windows. (They do know if they're using Mac but that's only
because they paid twice what it's worth to show off the logo.)

Having the active spread across the entire widescreen monitor also dries
me up the wall.

Then why do it? I assume you're speaking of your own behavior, since
other's behavior wouldn't be up to you. If you don't like it, don't do it
that way.

I rarely do things full screen. Google Maps, or any mapping type
program, would be an exception,

Sometimes, I get close to that with a program that has various control
panels on one side or the other. Such as a styles and formatting display.

I wasn't clear, but I was referring to things like writing a document,
and that's the only thing on the screen.

As for me, almost everything gets run full screen. I find it very
distracting to have multiple windows partially overlaid atop one another,
but I wouldn't tell anyone to do it one way or another. It's an individual
decision.

Regarding multiple windows on the screen, for me it depends on the
contents of the various windows. If those windows have different tools
that come with a particular program, it doesn't bother me.

But I don't have a browser window, email window, instant messenger
window, etc. all on the same desktop. For those situations, I use
alternate/multiple desktops. Each program is assigned to run in a
specific desktop. I've not found a way to do that with W10's Task Views.

It is an individual's choice. I get frustrated with people who choose
to do it one way, without knowing what their options are.

That last part is what gets you into trouble. I don't know how you can look
at someone and determine whether they know what their options are. It seems
much more likely that they're doing something exactly how they want to do
it. If *they* speak up and express frustration, that's different, but
until/unless they do so, you have no reason to be frustrated.

You can't look at them and know whether they know their options. You
actually have to ask and/or show them the options.

Right, that was exactly my point. So I don't understand why you allow
yourself to become frustrated. That's not making sense to me.

I guess it's seeing the same ignorance over and over again, and wonder
why they seem to be incapable of moving to another step ans asking what
they can do make life easier on themselves.

If the individual doesn't know what their options are, you can't assume
they are using what they want. If an individual only knows one options,
that's the one they are going to use. :-) Once you know they know
their options, and they choose to continue with the way they are doing
it, perfectly fine with me. :-)

Besides, your 'multiple desktops' approach isn't better than running an
application full screen. Those are just two different approaches that get
you the same result - an application with fewer distractions.

I disagree, with all due respect. I'm still not using full screen
windows the vast majority of time. I just have less that full screen
windows on the different desktops.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. What I said is accurate.

I think the alternate desktops are a bit more efficient. A hotkey setup
gives you one step to switch, compared to using the mouse to pick a
different window via the taskbar.



--
Ken
MacOS 10.14.6
Firefox 70.0.1
Thunderbird 60.9
"My brain is like lightning, a quick flash
and it's gone!"

"Ken Springer" wrote

| Too many people don't know an operating system from an alternator. :-(
|

With all the effort you put into that I'm loathe to
disagree with anything.

But I don't think it's their fault. Computers are very
complex tools made by linear/logical thinkers. Someone
could just as well say it drives them crazy that some
people don't know how to act with children, or bake a
cake... or change an alternator. There's nothing intuitive
about computers. I learned because I'm a handyman by
nature and I was intrigued, in part by the sheer
opaqueness of the thing. Everything was hard to figure
out. Nothing in my experience prepared me for the most
basic task of accessing a floppy disk from the Desktop.
And it wasn't in the Windows manual. (Which used to
exist.) I read books and did research. There's no reason
other people should want to do that.

Most people start it up, cross their fingers, do their work,
then shut it down. I'm facing a similar scenario now with
phones. I don't want a cellphone for several reasons, but one
big reason is that I don't want to waste a month of my life
trying to figure out the OS, only to have it change or find
out that I can't actually control it and that Google is in
control. Why should I make all that effort? They go to great
lengths to stop me from understanding and accessing anything
but the functions they want me to use. And I love working
with computers. I don't blame the majority for just looking
for the button that will do what they want. They didn't ask
for a degree in computer science. They just wanted a typewriter.

| Interestingly... I'm a member of a small networking group. 10-12
| members at the moment. You always hear about how businesses use
| Windows. The comments make it sound like it's impossible to use
| anything thing else. I was shocked to learn about a monthg ago, half of
| us use Macs. :-)
|

I noticed a lot of people switching to Macs a few
years ago. Mostly younger people. It was a lifestyle
thing. They weren't working on their computers. They
were sitting on their sofa, shopping online or emailing;
maybe streaming a video; and they simply didn't want
to deal with the technical side. They'd heard Macs
didn't have viruses, so they called their parents and
asked their parents to buy them a Mac laptop.

With business I don't think it's just a choice of OS.
Business could use Linux far more cheaply. But neither Mac
nor Linux has the software. Microsoft have spent decades
making sure it's easy for business to make their own custom
software on Windows. Businesses created their own in-house
databases and such. Microsoft also catered to business
needs with their office suite. Their customer is business.

Linux is used by some scientists, but mostly it's a system
for computer people who want a customized system for a
specific purpose, like a server or a kiosk system.

Mac is aimed at the consumer market.
Jobs put a lot of effort into getting Macs into schools
but avoided business. Business was too prosaic for him.
He fancied himself a spiritual avatar... And he locked the
system down... And he made it difficult to write software.
People had to do it the Mac way or not at all. It was
designed and intended for the kind of people who
drive you crazy. People who wanted a simple, cute
entertainment device and would gladly worship Lord
Jobs for providing it. All you need is a couple thousand
bucks and you can buy salvation at the Apple church,
that glass cathedral that usually sits in the swankest
part of most big cities.

Jobs was an arrogant control freak who fancied himself
some sort of Zen master and was going to bring his
transcendent aesthetic to the world. To riff raff like us.
What he really did was to make lots of very well designed,
addictive, entertainment devices that brought Taylor
Swift and online gossip to the world 24/7. He exploited
virtual slave labor in Asia and exploited his own customers
at home. And Tim Cook is following in his guru's footsteps.

I saw an interview recently where Cook was asked about
the Chinese labor issue and Cook responded that iPhone is
made by the whole world. It's a lovey-dovey, international
effort. [Parts are made in various places,
then shipped to China for assembly.] With Jobs it was all
brilliance and miracles. With Cook it's all sweetness and
bunnies. Lately, he's here to protect your privacy. (But he
never finishes that sentence. He's here to protect your privacy
from any third parties that might be able to exploit it and
leave Apple with less profits to hide offshore.)

I think of it like Apple is the estate manager who you
trust but is gradually draining your bank account. Google
is the thief who just breaks in your front door and pretends
there's nothing amiss. "What? Me? I didn't just break in."
Ironically, Microsoft seems almost honest by contrast.
They're a more old fashioned business. They want to exploit
you in any way they can, but their business market
is not as starry eyed as the Mac devotees.

| I do computer tutoring, but I don't teach specific programs. IOW, I
| don't teach people to open and save a file using MS Office 365 Word, for
| instance. I cover features all the more complex word processors do.
| Such as what styles and formatting does, or using Autocorrect (Smart
| Text in Softmaker Office) to type a couple of letters and having a
| complete return address entered complete with formatting.
|

You'd have to teach me that. I've never used spellcheck
or any kind of auto-correct. They drive me crazy. It's worse
than those clowns who leave dozens of windows open.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:

I typically clean up any files I get in UTF-8. They're not
worth the trouble. With webpages it's usually just
non-breaking spaces and curly quotes that make it UTF-8.
And those webpages are in English. So there's no advantage
to UTF-8.

To me it seems that the real motive is political correctness.
Inclusiveness. For us English speakers that's not a reason
to use it.

the advantage is proper typography, which has absolutely nothing to do
with political correctness.

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


Computers are very
complex tools made by linear/logical thinkers. Someone
could just as well say it drives them crazy that some
people don't know how to act with children, or bake a
cake... or change an alternator. There's nothing intuitive
about computers. I learned because I'm a handyman by
nature and I was intrigued, in part by the sheer
opaqueness of the thing. Everything was hard to figure
out. Nothing in my experience prepared me for the most
basic task of accessing a floppy disk from the Desktop.
And it wasn't in the Windows manual. (Which used to
exist.) I read books and did research. There's no reason
other people should want to do that.

internally they're complex, but for the end user, they are generally
very intuitive and easy to use, far, far more so than whatever you
learned way back when.

the only time the complexity needs to be exposed is for those who write
software or design hardware.




Mac is aimed at the consumer market.
Jobs put a lot of effort into getting Macs into schools
but avoided business. Business was too prosaic for him.
He fancied himself a spiritual avatar... And he locked the
system down... And he made it difficult to write software.
People had to do it the Mac way or not at all.

absolutely utterly false.

there is *no* lockdown and writing mac software is easier than for
other platforms.

stop talking about things you know absolutely nothing about.

On 12/6/2019 7:41 PM, Mayayana wrote:
"Ken Blake" wrote
|
| I thought Microsoft made "Money."
|

I had to look that up. I'd never heard of it. But then
I've never used accounting or tax software. I use a
checkbook and paper/pencil to keep track of my
finances.



You choice of course. As far as I'm concerned, personal financial
software is wonderful. I use Quicken, not Money, and it saves me an
enormous amount of time and trouble. It's also a wonderful resource for
searching for past expenses--where did I buy something, who provided the
service, when was it, how much did it cost, etc.


--
Ken