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Connecting two Win 64 PCs with USB2 cable



 
 
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  #16  
Old December 11th 18, 07:34 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
pjp[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,183
Default Video cables

In article , lid says...

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:


I once bought an HDMI to VGA cable - being puzzled even at the time, as
AIUI one is digital and the other analogue! It didn't work, of course. I
haven't thrown it out!


Well, this could be interesting.

Did you pay $100 (active) or $10 (surely not passive) ?

Those would be old pricing.

The active ones have dropped considerably in price.

https://www.amazon.com/Moread-Gold-P.../dp/B00SW9JI9A

They can run off the +5V pin on the HDMI connector.
I don't know what the current flow limit is on that
pin, as it's probably intended for powering the
SDA/SCL/CEC plane.

http://unitedtechnologies.com.pk/Nti/image/10ci.png

Since the output is unprotected, the dongle is not
allowed to "support" HDCP. If the OS has an issue with
lack of proper HDCP support at 1920x1080 or higher,
it has the option of "making the image fuzzy" during
Hollywood movie playback. (The player program likely
requests protection.)

This is also why HDMI capture cards aren't supposed
to support HDCP, and the front end chip is not
supposed to have HDCP keys installed in it to make
encrypted content capture possible.

Paul


I have no way of testing given I don't subscribe to anything
"protected" but it does have me wondering what my Hauppage USB tuner
would think of an encrypted signal and as well what my stand alone ATSC
tuner with a USB PVR interface would also.

My old composite hardware DVD recorder basically will record anything I
can get on the old analog style tv but of course quality is about par
with a very good VCR.
Ads
  #17  
Old December 11th 18, 08:15 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default Video cables

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

I once bought an HDMI to VGA cable - being puzzled even at the time,
as AIUI one is digital and the other analogue! It didn't work, of
course. I haven't thrown it out!


Well, this could be interesting.

Did you pay $100 (active) or $10 (surely not passive) ?

Those would be old pricing.

The active ones have dropped considerably in price.

https://www.amazon.com/Moread-Gold-P...book-Raspberry
/dp/B00SW9JI9A

They can run off the +5V pin on the HDMI connector.
I don't know what the current flow limit is on that
pin, as it's probably intended for powering the
SDA/SCL/CEC plane.

http://unitedtechnologies.com.pk/Nti/image/10ci.png


My cable looks something like
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3m-HDMI-m...5649&hash=item
1ed9627a6c:g:1QwAAOSwwZtaecem:rk:33f:0
, other than mine says it is 2.5m not 3; I still have the bag. I bought
it at a computer fair: I think I paid less than shown, possibly less
than 2 pounds. It certainly doesn't _look_ as if it has _any_
electronics in it, though you never can tell with moulded plugs these
days (and the industry referring to _anything_ as a "cable" or "lead",
even power supplies, these days doesn't help).

I was interested that the above one specifically says in the text lower
down the listing that it isn't for laptops etc.; but it does
specifically mention HDTV receivers, which is what I wanted it for (to
connect one to a VGA monitor [which came as part of an analogue-only TV,
but has higher resolution than SD TV]). What the listing actually says:
"This HDMI to VGA HD15 (Male) connects your HDMI-equipped device, HDTV
(NOT FROM COMPUTER OR LAPTOP) to your monitor. The HDMI-equipped devices
include high-definition DVD player, HDTV receiver, projector,
Playstation system. It is used to connect your HDMI-equipped devices
including DVD player, HDTV receiver, projector and playstation system to
your monitor."

Since the output is unprotected, the dongle is not
allowed to "support" HDCP. If the OS has an issue with
lack of proper HDCP support at 1920x1080 or higher,
it has the option of "making the image fuzzy" during
Hollywood movie playback. (The player program likely
requests protection.)

This is also why HDMI capture cards aren't supposed
to support HDCP, and the front end chip is not
supposed to have HDCP keys installed in it to make
encrypted content capture possible.

Paul


Your second link doesn't show any lines that look like analogue signals
- well, I don't know what SCL and SDA are, but they certainly aren't the
three that'd be needed for RGB, even if one included sync..

If, as I suspect, these cables are truly passive, I just wonder how they
can get away with selling them! I might have expected a few,
fly-by-night, but it is many months (I think more like two years) since
I bought these, and I can still see them for sale on ebay. UK seller,
too.

Ah, I was going to say there are others: looking at one of those (also
UK seller), it says: "VGA to HDMI connector cable not an Analogue to
Digital Converter. This is a VGA to HDMI cable; this does not convert
Analogue signals to Digital.

For this cable to work your video card must support Digital signal
output through the VGA port. Please check your laptop, computer or other
device user manual to see whether it will support Digital output through
VGA."

I suppose that just might let them off the hook - _if_ any device exists
that outputs digital signals through the VGA connector. Have you ever
heard of such? It wouldn't excuse the other one, though - which
specifically says (going the other way) HDTV receiver to monitor!

JPG
-


Visit 255soft.uk if you find petitions unfair (and please *pass it on*, too).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"... all your hard work in the hands of twelve people too stupid to get off
jury
duty." CSI, 200x
  #18  
Old December 11th 18, 08:26 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
cameo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default Connecting two Win 64 PCs with USB2 cable

On 12/11/2018 2:08 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
cameo wrote:

That Plugable cable does not look USB2 when you look into its connector:
it's white, not blue. The only bridge cables I see with blue connectors
are all USB3. I wonder how they would work between two USB2 ports.


Seems conflicting. "Does not look USB2" because it has a white spacer
inside the USB connector. "Blue connectors are all USB3." Okay, so the
one candidate cable is not blue (USB3), but white (USB2), so it "should
look USB2".

Typically, USB2 connectors have a white-colored spacer and USB3
connectors have a blue-colored spacer. I have seen a black-colored
spacer in USB2 connectors. You can see the space in the type-A
connectors. Actually white was supposed to identify USB1 connectors, so
the color scheme should be:

- USB-1: white.
- USB-2: black.
- USB-3: blue.
- Orange: The connector does not power off during standby and may have a
higher current output, like 2.1A, to charge phones faster that will
take the higher load.

The small ones don't have spacer, so hopefully they put some color on
the cord, strain relief, connector shell, or printing on the shell or
cable sheath, like "USB3), to help identify the USB type.

Because the type-A USB connector is square and the connection PCB is in
the middle, I've seen unpolarized USB type-A connectors that simply left
out the spacer that fills one-half of the recess inside the connector.
there's only 4 signals: 5V, sig+, sig-, and ground. You'd think using a
non-spacer'ed connector would result in sending 5V to the device's
ground and ground the device's 5V line; however, the circuitry inside
the non-polarized connector detects which line should have 5V and
ground. Doesn't matter if the differential sig+ and sig- lines are
reversed as they present a differential signal between them (used to
cancel any induced RF). If that reversible connector's logic fails, you
could burn up your USB device.

I'm sorry and you're right, of course. I did not have to deal with USB
issues for quite a long time and I forgot about the USB3 connectors
having the blue spacer, not the USB2. So luckily that means my laptops
also have a USB3 port each that I could use for data transfer. Luckily
the choice of transfer cables is also bigger on Amazon.
Personally I've never seen type-A connectors without a spacer in them,
white or blue.

  #19  
Old December 11th 18, 09:50 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Video cables

pjp wrote:
In article , lid says...
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

I once bought an HDMI to VGA cable - being puzzled even at the time, as
AIUI one is digital and the other analogue! It didn't work, of course. I
haven't thrown it out!

Well, this could be interesting.

Did you pay $100 (active) or $10 (surely not passive) ?

Those would be old pricing.

The active ones have dropped considerably in price.

https://www.amazon.com/Moread-Gold-P.../dp/B00SW9JI9A

They can run off the +5V pin on the HDMI connector.
I don't know what the current flow limit is on that
pin, as it's probably intended for powering the
SDA/SCL/CEC plane.

http://unitedtechnologies.com.pk/Nti/image/10ci.png

Since the output is unprotected, the dongle is not
allowed to "support" HDCP. If the OS has an issue with
lack of proper HDCP support at 1920x1080 or higher,
it has the option of "making the image fuzzy" during
Hollywood movie playback. (The player program likely
requests protection.)

This is also why HDMI capture cards aren't supposed
to support HDCP, and the front end chip is not
supposed to have HDCP keys installed in it to make
encrypted content capture possible.

Paul


I have no way of testing given I don't subscribe to anything
"protected" but it does have me wondering what my Hauppage USB tuner
would think of an encrypted signal and as well what my stand alone ATSC
tuner with a USB PVR interface would also.

My old composite hardware DVD recorder basically will record anything I
can get on the old analog style tv but of course quality is about par
with a very good VCR.


Encryption in Flight Do Not Copy Bit
CableTV Yes (CableCard) Yes should be encrypted on disk
OTA DTV No Yes .wtv encrypted on disk
No No .wtv plays in FFMPEG

My tuner is the third row in the table.
The TV stations I've tried don't seem to cause encryption on disk.

I can play the output of my Hauppauge tuner (from Media Center), with this.

ffplay -ast 2 -vst 3 -x 704 -y 480 some.wtv

Amongst other ways.

And I don't think I've seen my Zinwell DTV STB messing with the
sync pulse on the Composite analog output connector. That enters my
capture card OK (for playback realtime in DScaler).

*******

Analog TV is a thing of the past now, in a lot of places.

It might have had a Do Not Copy bit, but I'd have to look
that up somewhere.

The signal itself doesn't have protection.

It's possible the analog signal on CableTV had some kind
of protection (because of the "swimming" video fields).

For stuff involving DVD playback to Composite or maybe
recording with a VCR, there was Macrovision to mess up the
sync pulses.

Again, beginning to fade from memory. The
Macrovision company lives on, to create more mischief,
so they're not dead yet by any stretch of the
imagination. DMCA made them the gift that keeps on
giving (their techniques now enshrined in law).

https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/...crovision.html

https://arstechnica.com/information-...load-near-you/

Paul
  #20  
Old December 11th 18, 10:14 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Video cables

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

I once bought an HDMI to VGA cable - being puzzled even at the time,
as AIUI one is digital and the other analogue! It didn't work, of
course. I haven't thrown it out!


Well, this could be interesting.

Did you pay $100 (active) or $10 (surely not passive) ?

Those would be old pricing.

The active ones have dropped considerably in price.

https://www.amazon.com/Moread-Gold-P...book-Raspberry
/dp/B00SW9JI9A

They can run off the +5V pin on the HDMI connector.
I don't know what the current flow limit is on that
pin, as it's probably intended for powering the
SDA/SCL/CEC plane.

http://unitedtechnologies.com.pk/Nti/image/10ci.png


My cable looks something like
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3m-HDMI-m...5649&hash=item

1ed9627a6c:g:1QwAAOSwwZtaecem:rk:33f:0
, other than mine says it is 2.5m not 3; I still have the bag. I bought
it at a computer fair: I think I paid less than shown, possibly less
than 2 pounds. It certainly doesn't _look_ as if it has _any_
electronics in it, though you never can tell with moulded plugs these
days (and the industry referring to _anything_ as a "cable" or "lead",
even power supplies, these days doesn't help).

I was interested that the above one specifically says in the text lower
down the listing that it isn't for laptops etc.; but it does
specifically mention HDTV receivers, which is what I wanted it for (to
connect one to a VGA monitor [which came as part of an analogue-only TV,
but has higher resolution than SD TV]). What the listing actually says:
"This HDMI to VGA HD15 (Male) connects your HDMI-equipped device, HDTV
(NOT FROM COMPUTER OR LAPTOP) to your monitor. The HDMI-equipped devices
include high-definition DVD player, HDTV receiver, projector,
Playstation system. It is used to connect your HDMI-equipped devices
including DVD player, HDTV receiver, projector and playstation system to
your monitor."

Since the output is unprotected, the dongle is not
allowed to "support" HDCP. If the OS has an issue with
lack of proper HDCP support at 1920x1080 or higher,
it has the option of "making the image fuzzy" during
Hollywood movie playback. (The player program likely
requests protection.)

This is also why HDMI capture cards aren't supposed
to support HDCP, and the front end chip is not
supposed to have HDCP keys installed in it to make
encrypted content capture possible.

Paul


Your second link doesn't show any lines that look like analogue signals
- well, I don't know what SCL and SDA are, but they certainly aren't the
three that'd be needed for RGB, even if one included sync..

If, as I suspect, these cables are truly passive, I just wonder how they
can get away with selling them! I might have expected a few,
fly-by-night, but it is many months (I think more like two years) since
I bought these, and I can still see them for sale on ebay. UK seller, too.

Ah, I was going to say there are others: looking at one of those (also
UK seller), it says: "VGA to HDMI connector cable not an Analogue to
Digital Converter. This is a VGA to HDMI cable; this does not convert
Analogue signals to Digital.

For this cable to work your video card must support Digital signal
output through the VGA port. Please check your laptop, computer or other
device user manual to see whether it will support Digital output through
VGA."

I suppose that just might let them off the hook - _if_ any device exists
that outputs digital signals through the VGA connector. Have you ever
heard of such? It wouldn't excuse the other one, though - which
specifically says (going the other way) HDTV receiver to monitor!

JPG


OMG. You're kidding. VGA to HDMI passive ?
There aren't enough controlled impedance signals on VGA to do that.

Most of the HDMI to VGA I can see here, have the "box with VGA" on the
end, and that's probably where the converter chip is located.

Your cable with the molded ends, it would have to be an amazing
miniaturization job, to fit everything and include an active IC
for the conversion. Of course there's no way to do HDMI to
VGA passively. Why would anyone make a royal mess of the HDMI
connector on some device, in an attempt to make it dual
purpose ?

Since your cable works, you're going to have to wait a
few minutes and "feel for heat" to locate the IC. Some of
these adapters actually overheat, because their cooling
isn't good enough. Some of the heat can go into the connector,
or down the cable itself. The molding around the PCB, might
not carry much of the head away.

Paul
  #21  
Old December 12th 18, 04:41 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,uk.tech.broadcast
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default Video cables

In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

I once bought an HDMI to VGA cable - being puzzled even at the
time, as AIUI one is digital and the other analogue! It didn't
work, of course. I haven't thrown it out!

Well, this could be interesting.

Did you pay $100 (active) or $10 (surely not passive) ?

Those would be old pricing.

The active ones have dropped considerably in price.

https://www.amazon.com/Moread-Gold-P...book-Raspberry
/dp/B00SW9JI9A

They can run off the +5V pin on the HDMI connector.
I don't know what the current flow limit is on that
pin, as it's probably intended for powering the
SDA/SCL/CEC plane.

http://unitedtechnologies.com.pk/Nti/image/10ci.png

My cable looks something like

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3m-HDMI-m...-male-Video-Ad
apter-Cable-for-1080p-HDTV-Monitor/132496128620?epid=7014465649&hash=item
1ed9627a6c:g:1QwAAOSwwZtaecem:rk:33f:0
, other than mine says it is 2.5m not 3; I still have the bag. I
bought it at a computer fair: I think I paid less than shown,
possibly less than 2 pounds. It certainly doesn't _look_ as if it has
_any_ electronics in it, though you never can tell with moulded plugs
these days (and the industry referring to _anything_ as a "cable" or
"lead", even power supplies, these days doesn't help).
I was interested that the above one specifically says in the text
lower down the listing that it isn't for laptops etc.; but it does
specifically mention HDTV receivers, which is what I wanted it for (to
connect one to a VGA monitor [which came as part of an analogue-only
TV, but has higher resolution than SD TV]). What the listing actually
says: "This HDMI to VGA HD15 (Male) connects your HDMI-equipped
device, HDTV (NOT FROM COMPUTER OR LAPTOP) to your monitor. The
HDMI-equipped devices include high-definition DVD player, HDTV
receiver, projector, Playstation system. It is used to connect your
HDMI-equipped devices including DVD player, HDTV receiver, projector
and playstation system to your monitor."

Since the output is unprotected, the dongle is not
allowed to "support" HDCP. If the OS has an issue with
lack of proper HDCP support at 1920x1080 or higher,
it has the option of "making the image fuzzy" during
Hollywood movie playback. (The player program likely
requests protection.)

This is also why HDMI capture cards aren't supposed
to support HDCP, and the front end chip is not
supposed to have HDCP keys installed in it to make
encrypted content capture possible.

Paul

Your second link doesn't show any lines that look like analogue
signals - well, I don't know what SCL and SDA are, but they certainly
aren't the three that'd be needed for RGB, even if one included sync..
If, as I suspect, these cables are truly passive, I just wonder how
they can get away with selling them! I might have expected a few,
fly-by-night, but it is many months (I think more like two years)
since I bought these, and I can still see them for sale on ebay. UK
seller, too.
Ah, I was going to say there are others: looking at one of those
(also UK seller), it says: "VGA to HDMI connector cable not an
Analogue to Digital Converter. This is a VGA to HDMI cable; this does
not convert Analogue signals to Digital.
For this cable to work your video card must support Digital signal
output through the VGA port. Please check your laptop, computer or
other device user manual to see whether it will support Digital
output through VGA."
I suppose that just might let them off the hook - _if_ any device
exists that outputs digital signals through the VGA connector. Have
you ever heard of such? It wouldn't excuse the other one, though -
which specifically says (going the other way) HDTV receiver to monitor!
JPG


OMG. You're kidding. VGA to HDMI passive ?
There aren't enough controlled impedance signals on VGA to do that.


Well, _one_ of the cable descriptions did imply that some (I suspect
only one, and a very rare one!) graphics cards output HDMI signals via
an (S)VGA connector!

Most of the HDMI to VGA I can see here, have the "box with VGA" on the
end, and that's probably where the converter chip is located.


Indeed. That's what I would guess, too.

Your cable with the molded ends, it would have to be an amazing
miniaturization job, to fit everything and include an active IC
for the conversion. Of course there's no way to do HDMI to
VGA passively. Why would anyone make a royal mess of the HDMI
connector on some device, in an attempt to make it dual
purpose ?

Since your cable works, you're going to have to wait a
few minutes and "feel for heat" to locate the IC. Some of
these adapters actually overheat, because their cooling
isn't good enough. Some of the heat can go into the connector,


No, it _didn't_ work. For the use I wanted, from an HDTV tuner to a
monitor. Note that one of the cables above specifically says "This HDMI
to VGA HD15 (Male) connects your HDMI-equipped device, HDTV (NOT FROM
COMPUTER OR LAPTOP) to your monitor. The HDMI-equipped devices include
high-definition DVD player, HDTV receiver, projector, Playstation
system. It is used to connect your HDMI-equipped devices including DVD
player, HDTV receiver, projector and playstation system to your
monitor." Which did _not_ work with the one I bought (I didn't expect it
to; it was just cheap enough for a punt).

or down the cable itself. The molding around the PCB, might
not carry much of the head away.


"Off with his head" - sorry (-:

Paul


In practice, I obtained a small cheap SCART-to-VGA converter box, and
have been using that monitor with a - non-HD - DTV box ever since. (It's
only my bedroom telly, so doesn't need the HD really.) That box has been
on power - except for power cuts - for some years now, and never given a
moment's trouble.


Visit 255soft.uk if you find petitions unfair (and please *pass it on*, too).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Everyone is entitled to an *informed* opinion." - Harlan Ellison
  #22  
Old December 12th 18, 04:43 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Connecting two Win 64 PCs with USB2 cable

cameo wrote:

On 12/11/2018 2:08 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
cameo wrote:

That Plugable cable does not look USB2 when you look into its connector:
it's white, not blue. The only bridge cables I see with blue connectors
are all USB3. I wonder how they would work between two USB2 ports.


Seems conflicting. "Does not look USB2" because it has a white spacer
inside the USB connector. "Blue connectors are all USB3." Okay, so the
one candidate cable is not blue (USB3), but white (USB2), so it "should
look USB2".

Typically, USB2 connectors have a white-colored spacer and USB3
connectors have a blue-colored spacer. I have seen a black-colored
spacer in USB2 connectors. You can see the space in the type-A
connectors. Actually white was supposed to identify USB1 connectors, so
the color scheme should be:

- USB-1: white.
- USB-2: black.
- USB-3: blue.
- Orange: The connector does not power off during standby and may have a
higher current output, like 2.1A, to charge phones faster that will
take the higher load.

The small ones don't have spacer, so hopefully they put some color on
the cord, strain relief, connector shell, or printing on the shell or
cable sheath, like "USB3), to help identify the USB type.

Because the type-A USB connector is square and the connection PCB is in
the middle, I've seen unpolarized USB type-A connectors that simply left
out the spacer that fills one-half of the recess inside the connector.
there's only 4 signals: 5V, sig+, sig-, and ground. You'd think using a
non-spacer'ed connector would result in sending 5V to the device's
ground and ground the device's 5V line; however, the circuitry inside
the non-polarized connector detects which line should have 5V and
ground. Doesn't matter if the differential sig+ and sig- lines are
reversed as they present a differential signal between them (used to
cancel any induced RF). If that reversible connector's logic fails, you
could burn up your USB device.

I'm sorry and you're right, of course. I did not have to deal with USB
issues for quite a long time and I forgot about the USB3 connectors
having the blue spacer, not the USB2. So luckily that means my laptops
also have a USB3 port each that I could use for data transfer. Luckily
the choice of transfer cables is also bigger on Amazon.
Personally I've never seen type-A connectors without a spacer in them,
white or blue.


I have a lighter port car charger w/Bluetooth. The only point of it
having Bluetooth is to add a Bluetooth device to which my smartphone can
connect. My car is too old to have Bluetooth, so I added a charger with
Bluetooth. I only use the Bluetooth with ParKing and other Android apps
to trigger that my car engine has started or stopped, like when I take
off on a trip and when I stop somewhere. This lets the ParKing app
figure out where is my car and where I have been during a trip. When I
start the car, the lighter port becomes powered and the Bluetooth
charger connects to my phone, and when the charger device shows up then
the ParKing and other apps can see my car started. When I stop and turn
off the engine, the lighter port becomes unpowered, the Bluetooth
charger goes dead and disappears from my smartphone, and ParKing and
other apps can see the Bluetooth device disappeared. Using Bluetooth to
trigger the apps to record a trip or where is my car only worked because
the lighter port goes on and off with the car. If it were a power port,
as in newer cars, that is always powered, this setup wouldn't work;
however, in such a newer car, it would probably have its own Bluetooth
on which the apps could trigger.

The charger could had high-output USB type-A ports. Tablet users often
complain that the charger adapter in their car would only charge their
tablet when it powered off or sleeping, but when using the tablet the
power consumption exceeded the output from the charger, so the tablet
died. My charger has 2.4A and 1.2A ports. Because it's in a car and
reaching the lighter port can be a bit of an extended reach in some
cars, plus being tucked under the dash, it can be hard to see under
there. Personally, I find it not a hassle to try to push in a USB
cable, feel it is oriented wrong, and flip it over. The charger maker
figured to use non-polarized USB ports to make it easy to blindly insert
the cable in either orientation. I haven't bothered with this charger
for awhile, so I don't remember the construction of the port to make it
non-polarized, because I moved onto something else which was ...

I got a lighter port charger with high output ports (but not
non-polarized for its ports) that had Bluetooth (to trigger my travel &
car locator apps) but also an FM transmitter. So its Bluetooth had an
actual function other than mere existence of the device, which was to
connect my smartphone to the FM charger which sent out an FM radio
signal to which I could tune my radio. That let me get my phone
connected to my FM radio. While travelling, I can listen to prompts
from Google Maps (or other mapping apps, like HERE WeGo which is better
for offline maps) and do phone calls (which I really don't do and let
the calls go to voicemail while I'm driving). My phone's screen is
large for a smartphone. I use the Bluetooth to connect my phone to my
radio, and I have an high-output charger, so I made my old '02 car have
some of the amenities of newer cars.

The Bluetooth-FM-charger has polarized ports, as expected. The older
Bluetooth-charger has non-polarized ports (aka reversible ports)
apparently to make it easier when having blindly reach down to the
lighter port under a dash to plug in a cable. Personally, that's the
only time I ran across a non-polarized USB port. I was a bit leery of
that setup hoping the logic inside the charger would correctly sense the
connection to know to which pin it should connect the +5V.

https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-ne...er-FRONT-L.jpg
https://sep.yimg.com/ay/kvm-switch/t...0-003-ra-2.gif

Those are pics of a reversible USB cable.

https://i0.wp.com/9to5mac.com/wp-con...rsible-usb.png

That's a pic of a reversible USB cable showing the difference in the
thickness of the signal contact spacer.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/14...nt-application

Maybe it was Apple pushing for a reversible USB connector. I had tossed
the older Bluetooth-only lighter port charger in my travel kit, in case
I got stuck with a rental car without Bluetooth. I just looked and it's
Nonda's Zus smart car charger. I couldn't find online pics of
reversible USB ports as jacks (in devices), just as plugs (on cables).
It took some searching to find someone that took a pic looking straight
into the USB jack (instead of at an angle which doesn't let you see its
internals), and I was too lazy to take my own pic and upload it. That
online pic is at:

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/72b...3815812.jp eg

Yep, it also uses the thin spacer, so a cable can go in either
orientation.

When I did a search on "USB bridge cable" at Amazon, there weren't too
many brands that I recognized. Only Belkin and uGreen. I picked Belkin
which gave me 3 choices. When I looked at the one that had type A
connectors, it said:

Compatibility Information
Migration from 32- to 64-bit and 32-bit to 32-bit is supported.
Migration from 64- to 32-bit and 64-bit to 64-bit is not supported.

I don't why there would be a problem with the source host being x64.
The compatibility restrictions seem ... odd. Another of their bridge
cables had similar weird requirements.

https://www.belkin.com/us/support-pr...0000002G2BFAA0

That's a product page for one of the Belkin models sold at Amazon. I
think the requirements were published at the time of design and start of
manufacture rather than what would be applicable today.
  #23  
Old December 12th 18, 08:06 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
cameo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default Connecting two Win 64 PCs with USB2 cable

On 12/11/2018 7:43 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
cameo wrote:

On 12/11/2018 2:08 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
cameo wrote:

That Plugable cable does not look USB2 when you look into its connector:
it's white, not blue. The only bridge cables I see with blue connectors
are all USB3. I wonder how they would work between two USB2 ports.

Seems conflicting. "Does not look USB2" because it has a white spacer
inside the USB connector. "Blue connectors are all USB3." Okay, so the
one candidate cable is not blue (USB3), but white (USB2), so it "should
look USB2".

Typically, USB2 connectors have a white-colored spacer and USB3
connectors have a blue-colored spacer. I have seen a black-colored
spacer in USB2 connectors. You can see the space in the type-A
connectors. Actually white was supposed to identify USB1 connectors, so
the color scheme should be:

- USB-1: white.
- USB-2: black.
- USB-3: blue.
- Orange: The connector does not power off during standby and may have a
higher current output, like 2.1A, to charge phones faster that will
take the higher load.

The small ones don't have spacer, so hopefully they put some color on
the cord, strain relief, connector shell, or printing on the shell or
cable sheath, like "USB3), to help identify the USB type.

Because the type-A USB connector is square and the connection PCB is in
the middle, I've seen unpolarized USB type-A connectors that simply left
out the spacer that fills one-half of the recess inside the connector.
there's only 4 signals: 5V, sig+, sig-, and ground. You'd think using a
non-spacer'ed connector would result in sending 5V to the device's
ground and ground the device's 5V line; however, the circuitry inside
the non-polarized connector detects which line should have 5V and
ground. Doesn't matter if the differential sig+ and sig- lines are
reversed as they present a differential signal between them (used to
cancel any induced RF). If that reversible connector's logic fails, you
could burn up your USB device.

I'm sorry and you're right, of course. I did not have to deal with USB
issues for quite a long time and I forgot about the USB3 connectors
having the blue spacer, not the USB2. So luckily that means my laptops
also have a USB3 port each that I could use for data transfer. Luckily
the choice of transfer cables is also bigger on Amazon.
Personally I've never seen type-A connectors without a spacer in them,
white or blue.


I have a lighter port car charger w/Bluetooth. The only point of it
having Bluetooth is to add a Bluetooth device to which my smartphone can
connect. My car is too old to have Bluetooth, so I added a charger with
Bluetooth. I only use the Bluetooth with ParKing and other Android apps
to trigger that my car engine has started or stopped, like when I take
off on a trip and when I stop somewhere. This lets the ParKing app
figure out where is my car and where I have been during a trip. When I
start the car, the lighter port becomes powered and the Bluetooth
charger connects to my phone, and when the charger device shows up then
the ParKing and other apps can see my car started. When I stop and turn
off the engine, the lighter port becomes unpowered, the Bluetooth
charger goes dead and disappears from my smartphone, and ParKing and
other apps can see the Bluetooth device disappeared. Using Bluetooth to
trigger the apps to record a trip or where is my car only worked because
the lighter port goes on and off with the car. If it were a power port,
as in newer cars, that is always powered, this setup wouldn't work;
however, in such a newer car, it would probably have its own Bluetooth
on which the apps could trigger.

The charger could had high-output USB type-A ports. Tablet users often
complain that the charger adapter in their car would only charge their
tablet when it powered off or sleeping, but when using the tablet the
power consumption exceeded the output from the charger, so the tablet
died. My charger has 2.4A and 1.2A ports. Because it's in a car and
reaching the lighter port can be a bit of an extended reach in some
cars, plus being tucked under the dash, it can be hard to see under
there. Personally, I find it not a hassle to try to push in a USB
cable, feel it is oriented wrong, and flip it over. The charger maker
figured to use non-polarized USB ports to make it easy to blindly insert
the cable in either orientation. I haven't bothered with this charger
for awhile, so I don't remember the construction of the port to make it
non-polarized, because I moved onto something else which was ...

I got a lighter port charger with high output ports (but not
non-polarized for its ports) that had Bluetooth (to trigger my travel &
car locator apps) but also an FM transmitter. So its Bluetooth had an
actual function other than mere existence of the device, which was to
connect my smartphone to the FM charger which sent out an FM radio
signal to which I could tune my radio. That let me get my phone
connected to my FM radio. While travelling, I can listen to prompts
from Google Maps (or other mapping apps, like HERE WeGo which is better
for offline maps) and do phone calls (which I really don't do and let
the calls go to voicemail while I'm driving). My phone's screen is
large for a smartphone. I use the Bluetooth to connect my phone to my
radio, and I have an high-output charger, so I made my old '02 car have
some of the amenities of newer cars.

The Bluetooth-FM-charger has polarized ports, as expected. The older
Bluetooth-charger has non-polarized ports (aka reversible ports)
apparently to make it easier when having blindly reach down to the
lighter port under a dash to plug in a cable. Personally, that's the
only time I ran across a non-polarized USB port. I was a bit leery of
that setup hoping the logic inside the charger would correctly sense the
connection to know to which pin it should connect the +5V.

https://cdn.macrumors.com/article-ne...er-FRONT-L.jpg
https://sep.yimg.com/ay/kvm-switch/t...0-003-ra-2.gif

Those are pics of a reversible USB cable.

https://i0.wp.com/9to5mac.com/wp-con...rsible-usb.png

That's a pic of a reversible USB cable showing the difference in the
thickness of the signal contact spacer.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/14...nt-application

Maybe it was Apple pushing for a reversible USB connector. I had tossed
the older Bluetooth-only lighter port charger in my travel kit, in case
I got stuck with a rental car without Bluetooth. I just looked and it's
Nonda's Zus smart car charger. I couldn't find online pics of
reversible USB ports as jacks (in devices), just as plugs (on cables).
It took some searching to find someone that took a pic looking straight
into the USB jack (instead of at an angle which doesn't let you see its
internals), and I was too lazy to take my own pic and upload it. That
online pic is at:

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/72b...3815812.jp eg

Yep, it also uses the thin spacer, so a cable can go in either
orientation.

When I did a search on "USB bridge cable" at Amazon, there weren't too
many brands that I recognized. Only Belkin and uGreen. I picked Belkin
which gave me 3 choices. When I looked at the one that had type A
connectors, it said:

Compatibility Information
Migration from 32- to 64-bit and 32-bit to 32-bit is supported.
Migration from 64- to 32-bit and 64-bit to 64-bit is not supported.

I don't why there would be a problem with the source host being x64.
The compatibility restrictions seem ... odd. Another of their bridge
cables had similar weird requirements.

https://www.belkin.com/us/support-pr...0000002G2BFAA0

That's a product page for one of the Belkin models sold at Amazon. I
think the requirements were published at the time of design and start of
manufacture rather than what would be applicable today.

Hm, interisting stuff.
I am getting this cable:
https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Tran...transfer+cable

  #24  
Old December 12th 18, 11:26 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Connecting two Win 64 PCs with USB2 cable

cameo wrote:

I am getting this cable:
https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Tran...transfer+cable


The packaging says their transfer software will not copy executable
files. That's their form of malware protection, I guess. I'm assuming
the one host will simply look like a mass storage device to the other
host, and perhaps the other host appears as a drive. If true, you could
just drag the files or folders you want from one host to the other. If
the other host is presented as a mass storage device, it should get a
drive letter. You could then use Windows Explorer to move/copy files.
You could also use xcopy or robocopy (in a command shell). There are
plenty of free file sync tools, like SyncBack Free (I use that one),
FreeFileSync, and the Allway Sync you mentioned.

The free version of Allway has a limit of 40,000 files per operation, so
you might end up with incomplete folder syncs across the hosts. My
Windows 7 host has over 173K files on it; however, I doubt I would be
synchronizing the OS or program folders since I have that software and
would install it on the other host. My %userprofile% has 39K files
under it, so it would be too close to Allway's freeware limit. Oh, and
the Allway freeware limit is 40K files over a span of 30 days, not per
operations as I thought; see https://allwaysync.com/freeware. I don't
remember ever hitting a file count limit with SyncBack Free; however,
that product won't use VSS to copy inuse or locked files (and most other
free sync tools are the same). VSScopy is supposed to support VSS. I
used to have it on my home PC but used it so rarely that I uninstalled
it. According to their FAQ, Allway Pro ($26 today) has a "Copy locked
files" option. Syncback Free doesn't have the file count limit but
won't copy locked files while SyncBack Lite is cheaper ($19.95) than
Allway Pro and the Lite edition will use VSS for copying locked files.

There is a portable (no install) version of each SyncBack edition,
including the freeware edition:

https://help.2brightsparks.com/suppo...es/43000335685

Allway Sync also has a portable version. If you are going to transfer
files just once between your hosts, you might not to have to install
software on one of them and then have to uninstall it followed by the
remnant registry and file cleanup. Of course, on the host where you
plug in the thumb drive with the portable sync tool, you'll need a
minimum of 2 USB ports: one for the USB drive with the sync tool and
another for the USB bridge cable - or you could use a USB hub to share
2, or more, USB devices/cables to one USB port.
  #25  
Old December 13th 18, 01:31 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
cameo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 453
Default Connecting two Win 64 PCs with USB2 cable

On 12/12/2018 2:26 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
cameo wrote:

I am getting this cable:
https://www.amazon.com/Plugable-Tran...transfer+cable


The packaging says their transfer software will not copy executable
files. That's their form of malware protection, I guess. I'm assuming
the one host will simply look like a mass storage device to the other
host, and perhaps the other host appears as a drive. If true, you could
just drag the files or folders you want from one host to the other. If
the other host is presented as a mass storage device, it should get a
drive letter. You could then use Windows Explorer to move/copy files.
You could also use xcopy or robocopy (in a command shell). There are
plenty of free file sync tools, like SyncBack Free (I use that one),
FreeFileSync, and the Allway Sync you mentioned.

The free version of Allway has a limit of 40,000 files per operation, so
you might end up with incomplete folder syncs across the hosts. My
Windows 7 host has over 173K files on it; however, I doubt I would be
synchronizing the OS or program folders since I have that software and
would install it on the other host. My %userprofile% has 39K files
under it, so it would be too close to Allway's freeware limit. Oh, and
the Allway freeware limit is 40K files over a span of 30 days, not per
operations as I thought; see https://allwaysync.com/freeware. I don't
remember ever hitting a file count limit with SyncBack Free; however,
that product won't use VSS to copy inuse or locked files (and most other
free sync tools are the same). VSScopy is supposed to support VSS. I
used to have it on my home PC but used it so rarely that I uninstalled
it. According to their FAQ, Allway Pro ($26 today) has a "Copy locked
files" option. Syncback Free doesn't have the file count limit but
won't copy locked files while SyncBack Lite is cheaper ($19.95) than
Allway Pro and the Lite edition will use VSS for copying locked files.

There is a portable (no install) version of each SyncBack edition,
including the freeware edition:

https://help.2brightsparks.com/suppo...es/43000335685

Allway Sync also has a portable version. If you are going to transfer
files just once between your hosts, you might not to have to install
software on one of them and then have to uninstall it followed by the
remnant registry and file cleanup. Of course, on the host where you
plug in the thumb drive with the portable sync tool, you'll need a
minimum of 2 USB ports: one for the USB drive with the sync tool and
another for the USB bridge cable - or you could use a USB hub to share
2, or more, USB devices/cables to one USB port.


Thanks. I let you know how this transfer cable worked out for me. I
wouldn't think of copying exe files in any case.


  #26  
Old December 13th 18, 11:57 AM posted to alt.windows7.general,uk.tech.broadcast
Phi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Video cables


"J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote in message
...
In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Paul
writes:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

I once bought an HDMI to VGA cable - being puzzled even at the time,
as AIUI one is digital and the other analogue! It didn't work, of
course. I haven't thrown it out!

Well, this could be interesting.

Did you pay $100 (active) or $10 (surely not passive) ?

Those would be old pricing.

The active ones have dropped considerably in price.

https://www.amazon.com/Moread-Gold-P...book-Raspberry
/dp/B00SW9JI9A

They can run off the +5V pin on the HDMI connector.
I don't know what the current flow limit is on that
pin, as it's probably intended for powering the
SDA/SCL/CEC plane.

http://unitedtechnologies.com.pk/Nti/image/10ci.png
My cable looks something like
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3m-HDMI-m...-male-Video-Ad
apter-Cable-for-1080p-HDTV-Monitor/132496128620?epid=7014465649&hash=item
1ed9627a6c:g:1QwAAOSwwZtaecem:rk:33f:0
, other than mine says it is 2.5m not 3; I still have the bag. I bought
it at a computer fair: I think I paid less than shown, possibly less
than 2 pounds. It certainly doesn't _look_ as if it has _any_
electronics in it, though you never can tell with moulded plugs these
days (and the industry referring to _anything_ as a "cable" or "lead",
even power supplies, these days doesn't help).
I was interested that the above one specifically says in the text lower
down the listing that it isn't for laptops etc.; but it does
specifically mention HDTV receivers, which is what I wanted it for (to
connect one to a VGA monitor [which came as part of an analogue-only TV,
but has higher resolution than SD TV]). What the listing actually says:
"This HDMI to VGA HD15 (Male) connects your HDMI-equipped device, HDTV
(NOT FROM COMPUTER OR LAPTOP) to your monitor. The HDMI-equipped devices
include high-definition DVD player, HDTV receiver, projector,
Playstation system. It is used to connect your HDMI-equipped devices
including DVD player, HDTV receiver, projector and playstation system to
your monitor."

Since the output is unprotected, the dongle is not
allowed to "support" HDCP. If the OS has an issue with
lack of proper HDCP support at 1920x1080 or higher,
it has the option of "making the image fuzzy" during
Hollywood movie playback. (The player program likely
requests protection.)

This is also why HDMI capture cards aren't supposed
to support HDCP, and the front end chip is not
supposed to have HDCP keys installed in it to make
encrypted content capture possible.

Paul
Your second link doesn't show any lines that look like analogue
ignals - well, I don't know what SCL and SDA are, but they certainly
aren't the three that'd be needed for RGB, even if one included sync..
If, as I suspect, these cables are truly passive, I just wonder how
they can get away with selling them! I might have expected a few,
fly-by-night, but it is many months (I think more like two years) since
I bought these, and I can still see them for sale on ebay. UK seller,
too.
Ah, I was going to say there are others: looking at one of those (also
UK seller), it says: "VGA to HDMI connector cable not an Analogue to
Digital Converter. This is a VGA to HDMI cable; this does not convert
Analogue signals to Digital.
For this cable to work your video card must support Digital signal
output through the VGA port. Please check your laptop, computer or other
device user manual to see whether it will support Digital output through
VGA."
I suppose that just might let them off the hook - _if_ any device
exists that outputs digital signals through the VGA connector. Have you
ever heard of such? It wouldn't excuse the other one, though - which
specifically says (going the other way) HDTV receiver to monitor!
JPG


OMG. You're kidding. VGA to HDMI passive ?
There aren't enough controlled impedance signals on VGA to do that.


Well, _one_ of the cable descriptions did imply that some (I suspect only
one, and a very rare one!) graphics cards output HDMI signals via an
(S)VGA connector!

Most of the HDMI to VGA I can see here, have the "box with VGA" on the
end, and that's probably where the converter chip is located.


Indeed. That's what I would guess, too.

Your cable with the molded ends, it would have to be an amazing
miniaturization job, to fit everything and include an active IC
for the conversion. Of course there's no way to do HDMI to
VGA passively. Why would anyone make a royal mess of the HDMI
connector on some device, in an attempt to make it dual
purpose ?

Since your cable works, you're going to have to wait a
few minutes and "feel for heat" to locate the IC. Some of
these adapters actually overheat, because their cooling
isn't good enough. Some of the heat can go into the connector,


No, it _didn't_ work. For the use I wanted, from an HDTV tuner to a
monitor. Note that one of the cables above specifically says "This HDMI to
VGA HD15 (Male) connects your HDMI-equipped device, HDTV (NOT FROM
COMPUTER OR LAPTOP) to your monitor. The HDMI-equipped devices include
high-definition DVD player, HDTV receiver, projector, Playstation system.
It is used to connect your HDMI-equipped devices including DVD player,
HDTV receiver, projector and playstation system to your monitor." Which
did _not_ work with the one I bought (I didn't expect it to; it was just
cheap enough for a punt).

or down the cable itself. The molding around the PCB, might
not carry much of the head away.


"Off with his head" - sorry (-:

Paul


In practice, I obtained a small cheap SCART-to-VGA converter box, and have
been using that monitor with a - non-HD - DTV box ever since. (It's only
my bedroom telly, so doesn't need the HD really.) That box has been on
power - except for power cuts - for some years now, and never given a
moment's trouble.


Visit 255soft.uk if you find petitions unfair (and please *pass it on*,
too).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Everyone is entitled to an *informed* opinion." - Harlan Ellison



That is similar to the mini firewire (IEEE 1394) to USB cables that are on
sale, as far as I know, the data stream is not compatible.

a.. 4 feet USB Data cable Firewire IEEE 1394 for MINI DV HDV camcorder to
edit pc c17
b.. SHARP FIRE WIRE 4 PIN DATA CABLE TO EDIT PC
c.. use this cable to download videos and pictures from your camcorders
its a 4pin firewire to usb
d.. check camcorder for the firewire port its quicker and super fast
e.. will work with JVC,SONY,PANASONIC and many more camcorders

It would be interesting to get a definitive comment on this.

  #27  
Old December 13th 18, 02:36 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,uk.tech.broadcast
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Video cables

Phi wrote:

That is similar to the mini firewire (IEEE 1394) to USB cables that are
on sale, as far as I know, the data stream is not compatible.


A $2 passive device cannot do that, no.

https://www.amazon.ca/1-8m-IEEE-1394...owViewpoints=1

"but I get windows error message
damaged or unrecognisable USB device"

You could design a device to do this conversion,
using effectively a double-buffered frame buffer
between sides, and UVC class USB at the destination,
but you wouldn't sell enough of them to pay for the
chip engineering.

You could do the conversion with an FPGA and
and an external static RAM. And the circuit board
would run you at least $100 when you were finished.
I doubt anyone would buy at that price. (Electronic
toys are quite sensitive to price, no matter what
valuable function it does.)

Since putting a Firewire card in your desktop PC
costs $25, a custom chip solution would have to be
many times cheaper to compete. And there isn't the
sales volume to drive down the price.

Paul
  #28  
Old December 13th 18, 02:37 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,uk.tech.broadcast
John Williamson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 434
Default Video cables

On 13/12/2018 10:57, Phi wrote:

That is similar to the mini firewire (IEEE 1394) to USB cables that are
on sale, as far as I know, the data stream is not compatible.

*a.. 4 feet USB Data cable Firewire IEEE 1394 for MINI DV HDV camcorder
to edit pc c17
*b.. SHARP FIRE WIRE 4 PIN DATA CABLE TO EDIT PC
*c.. use this cable to download videos and pictures from your
camcorders its a 4pin firewire to usb
*d.. check camcorder for the firewire port its quicker and super fast
*e.. will work with JVC,SONY,PANASONIC and many more camcorders

It would be interesting to get a definitive comment on this.


You'd need to check, but what it may do is have some smartness in the
cable to convert IEEE 1394 data levels and format to USB. It may need a
driver to install a virtual firewire port.

I've just solved the same problem. I bought a fairly old (2009) Canon
type X-HA1 Mini DV, HDV camcorder, and found that (a) it needs the right
program to download the HD format data via Firewire, as Windows only
natively supports SD, and (b) the cables are about as common as hens'
teeth. The laptop I am using has a 4 pin Firewire port built in.
Luckily, it didn't need the 800 MHz version, which is 9 pins.

The same setup also works with a Panasonic domestic one I picked up for
less than a tenner including a soft case and a dodgy cassette. (The shop
guy said the battery was duff, but it turned out the cassette was
jamming, causing a reset loop every time it tried to load. I'm happy
with the picture quality, and it plays back SD tapes from the big
camera, saving head wear.)

An alternative, if you have the right slot free (PCI, PCI card or the
express versions), is to buy a 400MHz capable IEEE 1394 card, and the
right cable.

4 to 6 pin are common, but 4 to 4 are not so easy, and it took me a few
minutes to find one online (At CPC, as it happens.) 4 to 6 pin cables
are available from RS Online.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
  #29  
Old December 13th 18, 08:40 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,uk.tech.broadcast
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Video cables

John Williamson wrote:
On 13/12/2018 10:57, Phi wrote:

That is similar to the mini firewire (IEEE 1394) to USB cables that
are on sale, as far as I know, the data stream is not compatible.

a.. 4 feet USB Data cable Firewire IEEE 1394 for MINI DV HDV
camcorder to edit pc c17
b.. SHARP FIRE WIRE 4 PIN DATA CABLE TO EDIT PC
c.. use this cable to download videos and pictures from your
camcorders its a 4pin firewire to usb
d.. check camcorder for the firewire port its quicker and super fast
e.. will work with JVC,SONY,PANASONIC and many more camcorders

It would be interesting to get a definitive comment on this.


You'd need to check, but what it may do is have some smartness in the
cable to convert IEEE 1394 data levels and format to USB. It may need a
driver to install a virtual firewire port.

I've just solved the same problem. I bought a fairly old (2009) Canon
type X-HA1 Mini DV, HDV camcorder, and found that (a) it needs the right
program to download the HD format data via Firewire, as Windows only
natively supports SD, and (b) the cables are about as common as hens'
teeth. The laptop I am using has a 4 pin Firewire port built in.
Luckily, it didn't need the 800 MHz version, which is 9 pins.

The same setup also works with a Panasonic domestic one I picked up for
less than a tenner including a soft case and a dodgy cassette. (The shop
guy said the battery was duff, but it turned out the cassette was
jamming, causing a reset loop every time it tried to load. I'm happy
with the picture quality, and it plays back SD tapes from the big
camera, saving head wear.)

An alternative, if you have the right slot free (PCI, PCI card or the
express versions), is to buy a 400MHz capable IEEE 1394 card, and the
right cable.

4 to 6 pin are common, but 4 to 4 are not so easy, and it took me a few
minutes to find one online (At CPC, as it happens.) 4 to 6 pin cables
are available from RS Online.


So are you saying the source device supports two protocols
on the same connector ?

That's possible, but if so, the manual should mention it.

AFAIK four pin Firewire would have TX+/TX-/RX+/RX- and no power.
You don't want Firewire bus power near the camcorder, and on
desktops at least, people use 6-to-4 passive converters so
the power isn't on the cable or near the camcorder.

It's not that there is a direct danger, but VBUS has leaked
by stuff getting bent in the connector on previous occasions.
And blown out the Firewire on the camcorder end.

USB would have its own +5V, D+, D-, GND in place of the
Firewire signals, if such a dual personality was being
contemplated. The camcorder doesn't need to touch +5V
if it doesn't want to, but it would need D+ and D-.
Perhaps wiring up just three of the wires would be sufficient

So at least the signaling could fit. I don't know if
the voltage levels of the two technologies are compatible
on the signal pins.

Reading the camcorder manual would reveal whether any
whizzy capabilities exist, and you can work from there.
A little Googling on the camcorder model number, might
dig up a solution or give a pinout.

There are other examples out there, like seeing a
headphone jack on a laptop, and when you happen to
stare into the barrel of the headphone jack, you're
greeted by red LED light. That's a TOSLINK
output for a plastic fiber TOSLINK cable. All fitted
into the headphone jack for dual-output. And I don't
think that was mentioned in the manual either. You
were just supposed to guess as to what that was.

Paul
  #30  
Old December 13th 18, 09:32 PM posted to alt.windows7.general,uk.tech.broadcast
John Williamson
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Posts: 434
Default Video cables

On 13/12/2018 19:40, Paul wrote:
So are you saying the source device supports two protocols
on the same connector ?

That's possible, but if so, the manual should mention it.

The transfer protocols for data and control signals are the same, laid
down in the standard, but without the right codec installed on the
computer, it won't download the HD video. Install the codec (Mine came
with a high definition editing program), and the process is transparent,
with full control over the tape transport (And, if you work out how,
basic camera controls) from the computer. I can even mix HD and SD takes
on the same tape, and the computer sorts out which is which, and treats
them accordingly. Or I can downres the HD to SD in the camera...

AFAIK four pin Firewire would have TX+/TX-/RX+/RX- and no power.
You don't want Firewire bus power near the camcorder, and on
desktops at least, people use 6-to-4 passive converters so
the power isn't on the cable or near the camcorder.

They actually just don't connect the power pins in the 6 pin plug. No
conversion is needed. A decent cable would have the pins cut off inside
the 6 pin plug. I'd use a converter on a fly lead on a desktop, though,
as the plugs on the PC are usually a right faff to reach.

It's not that there is a direct danger, but VBUS has leaked
by stuff getting bent in the connector on previous occasions.
And blown out the Firewire on the camcorder end.

Yerss. The PC end is capable of providing up to 30 Volts at well over an
Amp on the 6 pin connectors.

USB would have its own +5V, D+, D-, GND in place of the
Firewire signals, if such a dual personality was being
contemplated. The camcorder doesn't need to touch +5V
if it doesn't want to, but it would need D+ and D-.
Perhaps wiring up just three of the wires would be sufficient

For conversion from Firewire to USB, you would need power for the
conversion circuitry, which doesn't need to go anywhere near the input
pins. Without a converter, you have two devices speaking different
languages.

So at least the signaling could fit. I don't know if
the voltage levels of the two technologies are compatible
on the signal pins.

The signal voltage levels are not compatible, the one may damage
equipment designed for the other, and the encoding and data transmission
schemes are definitely not compatible. The USB system uses differential
transmission along the data lines, while Firewire uses D/S encoding,
with the data on one line, and a strobe on the other. Firewire also
permits more than one master on a connection, with arbritation
protocols, which USB doesn't, only permitting one master device per
connection. They are like chalk and cheese.

Reading the camcorder manual would reveal whether any
whizzy capabilities exist, and you can work from there.
A little Googling on the camcorder model number, might
dig up a solution or give a pinout.

The pinouts for USB and Firewire connections are laid down in the
standard, as are the voltages and signalling formats. The only
non-standard pinouts will be on the composite output (Where the
connections for the video vary between makers, with the audio
connections being standard. Some makers put the video signal on the
second ring, and earth on the sleeve, some put the earth on second and
the video on the sleeve. The plug is always of TRRS format, and may be
2.5mm or 3.5mm diameter), and component analogue outputs, which vary
from S-VHS to full on balanxced lines for each component and a multiway
connection..

The basics are simple, though. My Canon also has a Mini USB connector to
access the SD card used for still pictures, as does the domestic one,
but the USB ports can not be used to transfer video, even at SD. Both
USB ports show up on the computer as an external hard drive.





--
Tciao for Now!

John.
 




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