fixing or reinstalling XP to netbook w/o CD drive

Is there something similar to Hiren's Boot CD PE that will run on my
ACER Aspire One netbook designed for XP? I'm figuring that it's too big
and will run too slow? It says I have 1gig RAM. I tried to install 4gig
but it didn't work, and it's only 1.6GHz


Can i reinstall XP from an XP Pro cd if I have XP Home now?

Can I install XP at all if it's on a CD and my netbook has no CD drive?

I've read that I can copy a disk image .iso file to a flashdrive, and
install from that. Does that include the whole OS?

The boot options for this netbook include USB HDD, USB CD-Rom, and USB
FDD. Is a flashdrive likely to work here, or do I have to buy a USB-CD
drive?

micky wrote:
Is there something similar to Hiren's Boot CD PE that will run on my
ACER Aspire One netbook designed for XP? I'm figuring that it's too big
and will run too slow? It says I have 1gig RAM. I tried to install 4gig
but it didn't work, and it's only 1.6GHz


Can i reinstall XP from an XP Pro cd if I have XP Home now?

Can I install XP at all if it's on a CD and my netbook has no CD drive?

I've read that I can copy a disk image .iso file to a flashdrive, and
install from that. Does that include the whole OS?

The boot options for this netbook include USB HDD, USB CD-Rom, and USB
FDD. Is a flashdrive likely to work here, or do I have to buy a USB-CD
drive?

Is there a PQService partition on the hard drive ?

Your copy of WinXP Home Recovery might be in there.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140422...very&id=794500

There's a reference to it here, making it kinda official.

http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partition...n_types-1.html

"27 PQservice

Acer laptop hidden rescue partition. Can be FAT32 or NTFS.
Press Alt-F10 during boot to start this. Also other manufacturers
use this type for their rescue partition.
"

*******

Note that Rufus doesn't run on WinXP, but it's supposed to be able
to handle a WinXP ISO and make a bootable USB stick.

http://reboot.pro/topic/17327-tutori...-a-simple-way/

I wouldn't bother with a CD drive.

*******

There is another way to install WinXP. It's the
two-partition hard drive method. It requires a
bootable MSDOS media of some sort, to kick off the
install. (In other words, only kooks use this method :-) )

Primary, active
+-----+----------------------------+----------------------------+
| MBR | New (empty) C: partition | D: partition install files |
+-----+----------------------------+----------------------------+

You copy the "I386" folder from the ISO, onto D: .
You want the partition type of D: to be something MSDOS
can read. If your MSDOS is new enough, that's FAT32.
I suppose other FAT versions are big enough for
546,941,520 bytes of files.

Once you boot your MSDOS media, you cd to the D: partition and
run one of the two "setup" files. This kicks off the install.

The worst part of the whole ordeal, is the "caching" behavior
of MSDOS. It doesn't matter how fast the media is (D: read speed),
the time to copy the files from D: to C: will suck. But, just
walk away and let it run. Looking at the screen will only
make you angry :-)

On a Win98SE setup/computer, you might have run "sys A:" to
put MSDOS on a boot floppy. That's what I used to do the
two-partition install method here.

This site has boot disks, but nothing USB that I can see.
I have a USB Floppy drive, so I could always test that
out with some crusty old floppy.

http://bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

And there are CD versions of the MSDOS boot. That's
still not a USB key, unless Rufus would eat this.

http://www.infocellar.com/cd/boot-cd.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20081002...cd/boot-cd.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20081002...n98-BootCD.zip

If you look inside the downloaded file, it has smartdrv.exe for caching.

Win98-BootCD.zip\Win98.iso\[BOOT]\Boot-2.88M.img\
SMARTDRV.EXE 45,379 bytes

*******

Finding a WinXP Home image, makes the project
totally impractical.

Paul

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 27 Aug 2018 06:58:42
-0400, Paul wrote:

micky wrote:
Is there something similar to Hiren's Boot CD PE that will run on my
ACER Aspire One netbook designed for XP? I'm figuring that it's too big
and will run too slow? It says I have 1gig RAM. I tried to install 4gig
but it didn't work, and it's only 1.6GHz


Can i reinstall XP from an XP Pro cd if I have XP Home now?

Can I install XP at all if it's on a CD and my netbook has no CD drive?

I've read that I can copy a disk image .iso file to a flashdrive, and
install from that. Does that include the whole OS?

The boot options for this netbook include USB HDD, USB CD-Rom, and USB
FDD. Is a flashdrive likely to work here, or do I have to buy a USB-CD
drive?

Before you go any farther, I want you to know that the OS problems are
98% solved. I'll explain later, but want to answer you post anyhow.

Is there a PQService partition on the hard drive ?

Not sure. I bought it used.

Your copy of WinXP Home Recovery might be in there.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140422...very&id=794500

There's a reference to it here, making it kinda official.

http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partition...n_types-1.html

"27 PQservice

Acer laptop hidden rescue partition. Can be FAT32 or NTFS.
Press Alt-F10 during boot to start this. Also other manufacturers
use this type for their rescue partition.
"

I don't know how you find all this stuff. But Alt-F10 didn't work,
coming out of hibernation or total shut down.

The next step would be to dl a partition manager and see what it has to
say. I plan to do that but not right now.

*******

Note that Rufus doesn't run on WinXP, but it's supposed to be able
to handle a WinXP ISO and make a bootable USB stick.

http://reboot.pro/topic/17327-tutori...-a-simple-way/

I wouldn't bother with a CD drive.

I forget if any CD's were included with the computer, but one thing was
a USB CD drive. I haven't seen it for a long time and knew it would be
hard to find, but I looked last night. Instead I found a bag of cookies
and 6 tiny Baby Ruths. So some good came out of this.

*******

There is another way to install WinXP. It's the
two-partition hard drive method. It requires a
bootable MSDOS media of some sort, to kick off the
install. (In other words, only kooks use this method :-) )

Primary, active
+-----+----------------------------+----------------------------+
| MBR | New (empty) C: partition | D: partition install files |
+-----+----------------------------+----------------------------+

You copy the "I386" folder from the ISO, onto D: .
You want the partition type of D: to be something MSDOS
can read. If your MSDOS is new enough, that's FAT32.
I suppose other FAT versions are big enough for
546,941,520 bytes of files.

Once you boot your MSDOS media, you cd to the D: partition and
run one of the two "setup" files. This kicks off the install.

The worst part of the whole ordeal, is the "caching" behavior
of MSDOS. It doesn't matter how fast the media is (D: read speed),
the time to copy the files from D: to C: will suck. But, just
walk away and let it run. Looking at the screen will only
make you angry :-)

On a Win98SE setup/computer, you might have run "sys A:" to
put MSDOS on a boot floppy. That's what I used to do the
two-partition install method here.

This site has boot disks, but nothing USB that I can see.

Well this page is for Hirens but I think it will make any bootable CD
into a bootable flashdrive

https://www.hiren.info/pages/bootcd-on-usb-disk

The one thing the page leaves out is that it's best to check QuickFormat
in the first step. (I'm not sure if formatting after the second step
will remove some file the second step inserts, so I went back and redid
the first step too.) You have to click in the order shown or a field or
two will be blank.

I have a USB Floppy drive, so I could always test that
out with some crusty old floppy.

http://bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm

And there are CD versions of the MSDOS boot. That's
still not a USB key, unless Rufus would eat this.

http://www.infocellar.com/cd/boot-cd.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20081002...cd/boot-cd.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20081002...n98-BootCD.zip

If you look inside the downloaded file, it has smartdrv.exe for caching.

Win98-BootCD.zip\Win98.iso\[BOOT]\Boot-2.88M.img\
SMARTDRV.EXE 45,379 bytes

*******

Finding a WinXP Home image, makes the project
totally impractical.

Paul

I found very little for sale, but I did buy for $5
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-w...72.m2749.l2649

I'm not sure what I bought! but it's an Acer CD and the name is in the
URL Travelmate is very much like my model (whose name I forget.)

micky wrote:

I found very little for sale, but I did buy for $5
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-w...72.m2749.l2649

I'm not sure what I bought! but it's an Acer CD and the name is in the
URL Travelmate is very much like my model (whose name I forget.)

It might work, as royalty OEM Windows is SLIC activated
for older versions. And your Acer Aspire will have an
Acer SLIC table. Perfect for the job.

What won't be perfect, is the drivers on the disc.

You'll cross that bridge when you get there.

Paul

I had a Samsung netbook similar to your netbook, so this post is based
on experience with that.

In message , micky
writes:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 27 Aug 2018 06:58:42
-0400, Paul wrote:

micky wrote:
Is there something similar to Hiren's Boot CD PE that will run on my
ACER Aspire One netbook designed for XP? I'm figuring that it's too big

What's too big - Hiren's? I've never used a Hiren's, but my netbook
could certainly boot from a USB CD drive.

and will run too slow? It says I have 1gig RAM. I tried to install 4gig
but it didn't work, and it's only 1.6GHz

Mine could take max. 2G; I bought a 2G stick with the machine, though
didn't get round to fitting it for months. It didn't seem to make much
difference then, but according to task manager, I had rarely been
approaching 1G, so that didn't surprise me; by the end, I _was_ often
using 1.5G, mainly I think to the bloat in webpages so if I had Firefox
or Chrome open with more than a few tabs, ... so I think the 2G upgrade
would be worthwhile. (If you can still find a suitable 2G stick that
is!)

Can i reinstall XP from an XP Pro cd if I have XP Home now?

If you're reinstalling from scratch, it shouldn't matter which flavour -
if it's a valid (licenced) copy. I read that the authentication server
for XP is a bit up and down these days though; you would also have to
find the drivers for the hardware in your Aspire.

Can I install XP at all if it's on a CD and my netbook has no CD drive?

The unit should boot fine from a USB CD drive.

I've read that I can copy a disk image .iso file to a flashdrive, and
install from that. Does that include the whole OS?

I read somewhere that installing XP from USB _stick_ is problematic,
because at a reboot part way through the installation, it forgets how to
use a USB stick; however, I'm not sure if that applies to modern things
like Rufus.

The boot options for this netbook include USB HDD, USB CD-Rom, and USB
FDD. Is a flashdrive likely to work here, or do I have to buy a USB-CD
drive?

See above. If you can't find your drive, I think they're cheap enough
(IIRR mine was 15 pounds).

Before you go any farther, I want you to know that the OS problems are
98% solved. I'll explain later, but want to answer you post anyhow.

Is there a PQService partition on the hard drive ?

Not sure. I bought it used.

Mine had what I presume was a rescue partition.
[]
Acer laptop hidden rescue partition. Can be FAT32 or NTFS.
Press Alt-F10 during boot to start this. Also other manufacturers
use this type for their rescue partition.
"

I don't know how you find all this stuff. But Alt-F10 didn't work,
coming out of hibernation or total shut down.

Mine came up, briefly, at bootup with something like "press this for
BIOS, that for Samsung recovery". Neither was F8 - F8 assumes Windows is
at least partially bootable. Does your Aspire not have anything similar?

The next step would be to dl a partition manager and see what it has to
say. I plan to do that but not right now.

Even if you do have it, if you don't know how to invoke it, it isn't too
much use (I suppose you could work through all the F keys, with or
without Ctrl/Shift/Alt, but it'd be tedious!). What _does_ happen/show
when you try to boot the machine now?

*******

Note that Rufus doesn't run on WinXP, but it's supposed to be able
to handle a WinXP ISO and make a bootable USB stick.

Sounds as if I might be out of touch above.

http://reboot.pro/topic/17327-tutori...-from-usb-in-a
-simple-way/

I wouldn't bother with a CD drive.

I forget if any CD's were included with the computer, but one thing was

None were with mine, bought new. I think CDs with a new computer faded
out around '98 time.

a USB CD drive. I haven't seen it for a long time and knew it would be
hard to find, but I looked last night. Instead I found a bag of cookies
and 6 tiny Baby Ruths. So some good came out of this.
(-: [What are Baby Ruths?]
[]
I found very little for sale, but I did buy for $5
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-w...l-ACER-travelm
ate-recovery-CD-ser-2-0/173065627930?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trks
id=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I'm not sure what I bought! but it's an Acer CD and the name is in the
URL Travelmate is very much like my model (whose name I forget.)

You said earlier it was Aspire One, or have I gone adrift somewhere?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

'It works for me' is not the same as it isn't broke - Kenn Villegas, 2010-2-19
in
https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2010/02/1...s-technically/

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 28 Aug 2018 04:45:15
+0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:

I had a Samsung netbook similar to your netbook, so this post is based
on experience with that.

In message , micky
writes:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Mon, 27 Aug 2018 06:58:42
-0400, Paul wrote:

micky wrote:
Is there something similar to Hiren's Boot CD PE that will run on my
ACER Aspire One netbook designed for XP? I'm figuring that it's too big

What's too big - Hiren's? I've never used a Hiren's, but my netbook
could certainly boot from a USB CD drive.

I guess I thought Hirens would be running a version of win7, which I
assume is bigger than XP, but maybe I just forgot that it runs a version
of XP. At least that's what it ran earlier today. My memory is not
what it should be, I think.


and will run too slow? It says I have 1gig RAM. I tried to install 4gig
but it didn't work, and it's only 1.6GHz

Mine could take max. 2G; I bought a 2G stick with the machine, though

Maybe I'm wrong about this too. Though the vendor agreed that what he
was selling me whould have worked. Maybe I'm wrong about what I
bought, maybe it was 2gig.

didn't get round to fitting it for months. It didn't seem to make much
difference then, but according to task manager, I had rarely been
approaching 1G, so that didn't surprise me; by the end, I _was_ often
using 1.5G, mainly I think to the bloat in webpages so if I had Firefox
or Chrome open with more than a few tabs, .

Yes, it was webpages in FF that were the problem. But I bought another
used laptop running win7 so it's not that important how well the XP
laptop does. I liked that the Aspire is so small and light, but I
realized the Dell e430 (Did I get that right) only weighs one pount more
and mostly I carry it to or from the car so what's one pound. The
laptop bag weighs as much as heavier laptop, with power supply, USB
speakers, headphones, mouse, and some little things.

Firefox fixed smething about 3 to 6 months ago so I can open up more
tabs with much less trouble. And I can close them and open one in its
place. There is still a limit but it's not very annoying anymore.

... so I think the 2G upgrade
would be worthwhile. (If you can still find a suitable 2G stick that
is!)

Can i reinstall XP from an XP Pro cd if I have XP Home now?

If you're reinstalling from scratch, it shouldn't matter which flavour -
if it's a valid (licenced) copy. I read that the authentication server
for XP is a bit up and down these days though; you would also have to
find the drivers for the hardware in your Aspire.

I meant not from scratch, and I think I found a webpage that goes over
that in detail, that it should be possible, but it would want
authentication.

Can I install XP at all if it's on a CD and my netbook has no CD drive?

The unit should boot fine from a USB CD drive.

That's great.

I've read that I can copy a disk image .iso file to a flashdrive, and
install from that. Does that include the whole OS?

I read somewhere that installing XP from USB _stick_ is problematic,
because at a reboot part way through the installation, it forgets how to
use a USB stick; however, I'm not sure if that applies to modern things
like Rufus.

I don't know about Rufus, and I see below it doesn't work with XP?

I gave a link in another post in this thread for the page I used, which
might work for any installation CD. Or not.

The boot options for this netbook include USB HDD, USB CD-Rom, and USB
FDD. Is a flashdrive likely to work here, or do I have to buy a USB-CD
drive?

See above. If you can't find your drive, I think they're cheap enough
(IIRR mine was 15 pounds).

Good.

Before you go any farther, I want you to know that the OS problems are
98% solved. I'll explain later, but want to answer you post anyhow.

Is there a PQService partition on the hard drive ?

Not sure. I bought it used.

Mine had what I presume was a rescue partition.
[]
Acer laptop hidden rescue partition. Can be FAT32 or NTFS.
Press Alt-F10 during boot to start this. Also other manufacturers
use this type for their rescue partition.
"

I don't know how you find all this stuff. But Alt-F10 didn't work,
coming out of hibernation or total shut down.

Mine came up, briefly, at bootup with something like "press this for
BIOS, that for Samsung recovery". Neither was F8 - F8 assumes Windows is
at least partially bootable. Does your Aspire not have anything similar?

It comes up F2 for Setup F10? for boot order (Does that mean one-shot
boot order, given that boot order can be changed in Setup also?), and F8
gives the menu with options for booting.

The next step would be to dl a partition manager and see what it has to
say. I plan to do that but not right now.

Even if you do have it, if you don't know how to invoke it, it isn't too
much use (I suppose you could work through all the F keys, with or
without Ctrl/Shift/Alt, but it'd be tedious!). What _does_ happen/show
when you try to boot the machine now?

It's as if I weren't pressing any keys when I press Alt-F10, it just
tries to boot (and now I think it will boot and still ignore Alt-F10.)

According to Paul's page on Acer it is Alt-F10, but that same page said
sometimes it stops working. I didn't read the page thoroughly, since
first I'll check if I have the extra partition, but I figured he was
going to say how to fix it and then Alt-F10 will work again.

*******

Note that Rufus doesn't run on WinXP, but it's supposed to be able
to handle a WinXP ISO and make a bootable USB stick.

Sounds as if I might be out of touch above.

http://reboot.pro/topic/17327-tutori...-from-usb-in-a
-simple-way/

I wouldn't bother with a CD drive.

I forget if any CD's were included with the computer, but one thing was

None were with mine, bought new. I think CDs with a new computer faded
out around '98 time.

Yeah, I remember now. At least I didnt' have them and lose them.

a USB CD drive. I haven't seen it for a long time and knew it would be
hard to find, but I looked last night. Instead I found a bag of cookies
and 6 tiny Baby Ruths. So some good came out of this.
(-: [What are Baby Ruths?]

Baby Ruth candy bars. Peanuts, caramel, and chocolate-flavored nougat
covered in compound chocolate. I don't know what "compound" chocolate
is**. Although when I was little I thought it was named after Babe
Ruth, the candy company said it was named after US President Cleveland's
daughter Ruth. Now I read in Wikip that she had died 17 years earlier
and Babe Ruth was becoming famous about that time and it may have been a
devious way to avoid paying him a royalty. Oh, it's even more
complicated so those who are interested can read here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Ruth

**"Compound chocolate is a product made from a combination of cocoa,
vegetable fat, and sweeteners. It is used as a lower-cost alternative to
true chocolate, as it uses less-expensive hard vegetable fats such as
coconut oil or palm kernel oil in place of the more expensive cocoa
butter."

[]
I found very little for sale, but I did buy for $5
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Microsoft-w...l-ACER-travelm
ate-recovery-CD-ser-2-0/173065627930?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trks
id=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I'm not sure what I bought! but it's an Acer CD and the name is in the
URL Travelmate is very much like my model (whose name I forget.)

You said earlier it was Aspire One, or have I gone adrift somewhere?

No, that's right. I just forgot. I've had a lot of trouble remembering
the model ever since I got it. Travelmate is pretty much the same thing
but in more subdued colors and meant for business customers. I never
heard of it until today.

In message , micky
writes:
[]
realized the Dell e430 (Did I get that right) only weighs one pount more
and mostly I carry it to or from the car so what's one pound. The
laptop bag weighs as much as heavier laptop, with power supply, USB
speakers, headphones, mouse, and some little things.

Yes. I have an old Toshiba - runs W98 fine, though as it has no Windows
keys I think it predates even Windows - that doesn't _have_ a separate
PSU: the mains cable (US: line cord) goes straight into it. Can't
understand why we can't have such today: OK, there was a period where
they got obsessed with their machines being the smallest and lightest,
but today's power bricks wouldn't make much difference (and anyone
really obsessed these days would be using a tablet anyway).
[]
If you're reinstalling from scratch, it shouldn't matter which flavour -
if it's a valid (licenced) copy. I read that the authentication server
for XP is a bit up and down these days though; you would also have to
find the drivers for the hardware in your Aspire.

I meant not from scratch, and I think I found a webpage that goes over
that in detail, that it should be possible, but it would want
authentication.

Can I install XP at all if it's on a CD and my netbook has no CD drive?

The unit should boot fine from a USB CD drive.

That's great.

Don't rely - I was talking about my Samsung netbook.

I've read that I can copy a disk image .iso file to a flashdrive, and
install from that. Does that include the whole OS?

I read somewhere that installing XP from USB _stick_ is problematic,
because at a reboot part way through the installation, it forgets how to
use a USB stick; however, I'm not sure if that applies to modern things
like Rufus.

I don't know about Rufus, and I see below it doesn't work with XP?

Yes, I saw that - but if you look again, I think he says it can make an
XP stick - you just have to run it (Rufus) under something else to do
the making. But I've not used it.
[]
Is there a PQService partition on the hard drive ?

Not sure. I bought it used.

Mine had what I presume was a rescue partition.
[]
Acer laptop hidden rescue partition. Can be FAT32 or NTFS.
Press Alt-F10 during boot to start this. Also other manufacturers
use this type for their rescue partition.
"

I don't know how you find all this stuff. But Alt-F10 didn't work,
coming out of hibernation or total shut down.

I hadn't spotted that mention befo if it's in hibernation, doesn't
that mean Windows is working anyway?

Mine came up, briefly, at bootup with something like "press this for
BIOS, that for Samsung recovery". Neither was F8 - F8 assumes Windows is
at least partially bootable. Does your Aspire not have anything similar?

It comes up F2 for Setup F10? for boot order (Does that mean one-shot
boot order, given that boot order can be changed in Setup also?), and F8
gives the menu with options for booting.

Ah, no mention of recovery/rescue/repair/whatever. Doesn't sound
hopeful. I presume F2 just goes into the BIOS settings? The F8 thing
isn't IME usually mentioned on screen - it's just part of Windows, which
we're supposed to learn by telepathy or something. If it gets as far as
that list, your Windows may not be that damaged. Though I see from
another part of the thread that you got it back anyway - slow the first
time, then fine. If so, definitely now's the time to make an image! On
an external drive, of c: and any hidden partitions. (I do so by booting
Macrium - from a mini-CD in my case, though I think it _can_ be
USB-sticked.)

The next step would be to dl a partition manager and see what it has to
say. I plan to do that but not right now.

Even if you do have it, if you don't know how to invoke it, it isn't too
much use (I suppose you could work through all the F keys, with or
without Ctrl/Shift/Alt, but it'd be tedious!). What _does_ happen/show
when you try to boot the machine now?

It's as if I weren't pressing any keys when I press Alt-F10, it just
tries to boot (and now I think it will boot and still ignore Alt-F10.)

F10 on its own just gives access to boot order?
[]
Note that Rufus doesn't run on WinXP, but it's supposed to be able
to handle a WinXP ISO and make a bootable USB stick.
[]
None were with mine, bought new. I think CDs with a new computer faded
out around '98 time.

Yeah, I remember now. At least I didnt' have them and lose them.

Later, most machines nagged you the first few times you used them, to
make some recovery CDs. I suspect our netbooks, not having a suitable
drive, didn't though.
[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

There are a lot of things that children should be shielded from, but
"bad language" isn't one of them.

"Honey, we shouldn't say that when other people are around because some
grownups get upset about it. No, I don't know why, they just do."
- "The Real Bev", in mozilla.general 2015-6-7

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:21:01
-0400, micky wrote:


In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 28 Aug 2018 06:38:43
+0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:
...

Yes. I have an old Toshiba - runs W98 fine, though as it has no Windows
keys I think it predates even Windows - that doesn't _have_ a separate
PSU: the mains cable (US: line cord) goes straight into it. Can't
understand why we can't have such today:

I think the original reason was so that there could be 110 PS and 220 PS
which just plug in. Now that the power supplies worth with either
voltage, all that is left is the plug, and they could make those
interchangeable if they tried.

I started to write the paragaraph below when I realized that's maybe
another answer to why they put the power supply separate.

I buy a separate car power supply for a laptop I own. I buy from Amazon
or Ebay and I don't think they are designed for particular laptops, just
correlated with them by voltage and plug type.

My Acer just has a little thing that plugs into the cig. lighter and a
cord. The plub part gets pretty hot when in use but it works fine for
long periods.

My dDell E430 ? that came with win7, or maybe it was Vista the vendor
upgraded to 7, has a bigger screen, it's a pound heavier, seems to have
a thicker body, and the power supply they sold me has a rectangular box
in the middle of the cord. I guess it puts out more current. It too
has worked for fairly long periods in the car and icon in the systray
shows "charging".

I've been on two long trips abroad in the last two years and for the
first, I had bought the wrong phone and it had almost no data. So when
I was in the car and wanted to know something I'd have to use the
laptop. The smaller car power supply was a lot smaller and easier to
use, no bulky box in the middle. I'd usually find a hotel that I could
park next to or across the street. Did that twice with one hotel, once
with another, around midnight, and once I went to a McDonalds around 6
in the morning. No good place to rest the laptop but otherwise it worked
very well.

For the second trip, I dragged my laptop around in the car much of the
time but the phone worked right and I did't need it in the car. I did
go to a cafe and use it for a full hour, twice. It's still worth buying
the car power supply, for one thing, I needed it to try this Toyota
stuff and there are things you can't or I woudn't do on the phone.

micky wrote:
In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 28 Aug 2018 11:21:01
-0400, micky wrote:

In microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, on Tue, 28 Aug 2018 06:38:43
+0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" wrote:
...
Yes. I have an old Toshiba - runs W98 fine, though as it has no Windows
keys I think it predates even Windows - that doesn't _have_ a separate
PSU: the mains cable (US: line cord) goes straight into it. Can't
understand why we can't have such today:
I think the original reason was so that there could be 110 PS and 220 PS
which just plug in. Now that the power supplies worth with either
voltage, all that is left is the plug, and they could make those
interchangeable if they tried.

I started to write the paragaraph below when I realized that's maybe
another answer to why they put the power supply separate.

I buy a separate car power supply for a laptop I own. I buy from Amazon
or Ebay and I don't think they are designed for particular laptops, just
correlated with them by voltage and plug type.

My Acer just has a little thing that plugs into the cig. lighter and a
cord. The plub part gets pretty hot when in use but it works fine for
long periods.

My dDell E430 ? that came with win7, or maybe it was Vista the vendor
upgraded to 7, has a bigger screen, it's a pound heavier, seems to have
a thicker body, and the power supply they sold me has a rectangular box
in the middle of the cord. I guess it puts out more current. It too
has worked for fairly long periods in the car and icon in the systray
shows "charging".

I've been on two long trips abroad in the last two years and for the
first, I had bought the wrong phone and it had almost no data. So when
I was in the car and wanted to know something I'd have to use the
laptop. The smaller car power supply was a lot smaller and easier to
use, no bulky box in the middle. I'd usually find a hotel that I could
park next to or across the street. Did that twice with one hotel, once
with another, around midnight, and once I went to a McDonalds around 6
in the morning. No good place to rest the laptop but otherwise it worked
very well.

For the second trip, I dragged my laptop around in the car much of the
time but the phone worked right and I did't need it in the car. I did
go to a cafe and use it for a full hour, twice. It's still worth buying
the car power supply, for one thing, I needed it to try this Toyota
stuff and there are things you can't or I woudn't do on the phone.


The world of laptop power is pretty wacky.

The end result is not optimal for all usage conditions.

The laptop could have been designed to work off a
car (and a car battery), and been "wide range DC in".
Then, all the other components in the ecosystem,
would then deal with the characteristics of the
laptop as they then existed.

The laptop could have had low-cutoff on charging,
when the laptop got down to the lowest recommended
car 12V battery voltage. So that the laptop wouldn't
prevent your car from starting.

The wall adapter then, could have been any voltage
between about 12V and 18V. The laptop might have to
buck-boost, to charge the battery (depending
on how many cells were in the battery).

They could have made it so it "works excellent"
with the car, with just a straight cable.

But instead, it's the zoo you see today.

The DC input on the laptop is +/-0.5V, so if
the laptop says "14.4V", then you're allowed
anywhere from 13.9 to 14.9V or so. The tolerance
is fairly tight, and I feel it has something
to do with the charging scheme for the battery
(less circuitry between the barrel connector
and the battery terminals).

All I can tell you on the tolerance, is someone
in the newsgroups got a "universal" brick adapter with
two switch settings, and it was well more than
0.5V off on voltage. And about a month after
he started using that Ebay adapter, the laptop
stopped charging and was basically toasted. So the
laptop didn't tolerate the voltage offered,
all that well. It is possible to make switching
power converterd, that are "wide range" and work with
a lot of different voltages. For whatever reason,
laptops aren't forgiving. Their "ecosystem" is
their own private adapter - and screw everybody else.

Paul