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Javascript and FF 52.9.0



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 23rd 18, 07:09 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
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Posts: 627
Default Javascript and FF 52.9.0

It seems javascripts are what is slowing down/locking up my browser.
I get the gray box Script is broke continue debug or exit (or words to
that effect). FF says most of this stuff is no longer supported.
Is there a work around?
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  #2  
Old August 23rd 18, 08:04 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
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Posts: 10,881
Default Javascript and FF 52.9.0

gfretwell wrote:

It seems javascripts are what is slowing down/locking up my browser.
I get the gray box Script is broke continue debug or exit (or words to
that effect). FF says most of this stuff is no longer supported.
Is there a work around?


Firefox 52 ESR is the last version available for Windows XP.

Are you using adblockers, script blockers, or some other content
blockers in Firefox? Those work by breaking web pages. Resources the
page expects to access are blocked, and that can include script sources.
Broken scripts can misbehave simply because the programmer often does
not plan for scripts to get broken, like a script calling a function
defined by another script but your blocker prevents getting that other
script, so the caller script errors or misbehaves.

Does Firefox have the same problem when you load it in its safe mode
(which disables all extensions)?

Back on Aug 12 you reported a similar problem which seemed caused by
Javascript. Did you try Firefox in its safe mode back then?

You said that all extensions were disabled. Well, maybe all. "etc"
doesn't say which extensions you installed into Firefox. Even if ALL
extensions are disabled, you should still try Firefox's safe mode.

Disabling extensions does not remove the changes they make in the
settings of Firefox. Those changes remain effective when the extensions
are disabled or even in safe mode. Have you tried creating a new
Firefox profile and using that one? A new profile would not yet have
had any extensions installed in it hence no settings were changed due to
the installation or use of any extensions. I also mentioned back then
using a new profile but you didn't try it. If safe mode doesn't help,
how about trying a new Firefox profile this time?
  #3  
Old August 23rd 18, 09:48 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
R.Wieser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,302
Default Javascript and FF 52.9.0

G,

I get the gray box Script is broke continue debug or exit


That sounds as if some kind of developper mode is enabled (they might be
discarded silently with that mode being disabled).

Is there a work around?


Disable JS (fully, or white-listable by using a plugin like NoScript or
other) ?

And no, thats not a joke. Long-time experience tells me most websites work
as well (if not better!) with it being disabled.

A warning though : If you think that a plugin might be an idea than do it
soon: Mozilla intends to purge its "get your plugins here" server of all
old-style plugins (like FF 52 uses).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser


  #4  
Old August 23rd 18, 01:19 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Javascript and FF 52.9.0

wrote:
It seems javascripts are what is slowing down/locking up my browser.
I get the gray box Script is broke continue debug or exit (or words to
that effect). FF says most of this stuff is no longer supported.
Is there a work around?


They mention "about:support" here.

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis

The "about:config" allows tuning a browser and its
feature set. I can't be sure exactly what's in 52 ESR.
Probably Electrolysis. Maybe there are Developer Tools.
Maybe there is 60FPS compositing going on (which is a
bitch if there's no hardware acceleration to back
it up - that makes more effort for the CPU if no
hardware acceleration is available). I don't think
compositing and that style of rendering model can be
switched off.

They "design for a smartphone", and if your computer
doesn't happen to have the same hardware acceleration
characteristics as that, your browser won't be "buttery smooth".
It's just the way the world works, that the developers
lose sight of the objective of making something that
"works for most people".

Sure .js sucks the life out of the web, but there's
other stuff in there too.

One of the developer tools shows a waterfall curve,
and measures performance (after a fashion). I doubt
an end-user will learn anything of value from the
exercise - but it's an example of what "junk" is
hiding in your browser.

I've yet to get the browser to display any information
on how many cycles .js is using. Or what .js file or
routine might be doing it (such as a standard jquery
file perhaps).

There might be an "about:memory".

And the browser is likely to have a CEIP-like telemetry
system, which amongst other things, reports memory usage
to the mothership. This is how they spot problems with
the latest browser release. Without people having to
write to the support page and complain about it. By
doing their own CEIP, they don't have to use a Microsoft
method, and then log into a Microsoft server to
get their aggregate statistics. So the Mozilla model
is probably how other developers should have been doing
it in the first place. There may be an opt-out for
that, some place in the browser.

Have a careful look through the browser, and make
sure you're not missing any of the "bloat". I don't
have 52, which is why I'm "short on details" :-)
My browser fleet and methods won't last forever,
and the OS will have to be kicked to the curb sooner
or later. Things can't stay like this forever.

*******

Summary:

1) Knowing the hardware (video card make and model, CPU
make and model, available RAM), might give some idea
how "worthy" a platform is being used. Even a P4 with
Hyperthreading, helps. A P4 without Hyperthreading,
doesn't seem to fare as well. All it takes is a single
mis-behaving thread of execution, to crush a single-threaded
P4.

2) Provide a sample URL of an egregiously slow site.
So we can bask in the warmth of looping .js with you.

3) Do you have Flash installed ? Do you have FlashBlock ?
Is Flash set to Always Activate ? I don't know whether
the HTML5 video support in 52 ESR is sufficient for the
modern web or not. A site like Youtube probably prefers
HTML5 today, with Flash as a backup. You can visit this
site with your 52 ESR and check what's missing in the
HTML5 suite.

http://www.youtube.com/html5

Paul
  #5  
Old August 24th 18, 05:42 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 627
Default Javascript and FF 52.9.0

On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 02:04:28 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

gfretwell wrote:

It seems javascripts are what is slowing down/locking up my browser.
I get the gray box Script is broke continue debug or exit (or words to
that effect). FF says most of this stuff is no longer supported.
Is there a work around?


Firefox 52 ESR is the last version available for Windows XP.

Are you using adblockers, script blockers, or some other content
blockers in Firefox? Those work by breaking web pages. Resources the
page expects to access are blocked, and that can include script sources.
Broken scripts can misbehave simply because the programmer often does
not plan for scripts to get broken, like a script calling a function
defined by another script but your blocker prevents getting that other
script, so the caller script errors or misbehaves.

Does Firefox have the same problem when you load it in its safe mode
(which disables all extensions)?

Back on Aug 12 you reported a similar problem which seemed caused by
Javascript. Did you try Firefox in its safe mode back then?

You said that all extensions were disabled. Well, maybe all. "etc"
doesn't say which extensions you installed into Firefox. Even if ALL
extensions are disabled, you should still try Firefox's safe mode.

Disabling extensions does not remove the changes they make in the
settings of Firefox. Those changes remain effective when the extensions
are disabled or even in safe mode. Have you tried creating a new
Firefox profile and using that one? A new profile would not yet have
had any extensions installed in it hence no settings were changed due to
the installation or use of any extensions. I also mentioned back then
using a new profile but you didn't try it. If safe mode doesn't help,
how about trying a new Firefox profile this time?


Safe mode certainly makes it better. I am thinking about just using
safe mode all the time.
  #6  
Old August 24th 18, 07:27 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Javascript and FF 52.9.0

gfretwell wrote:

Safe mode certainly makes it better. I am thinking about just using
safe mode all the time.


Safe mode uses some default settings but mostly disables all extensions
which make my wonder if you really had all extensions disabled before.

You can have Firefox go into safe mode only by using a -safe-mode
command-line switch. That will work if you always load Firefox using a
command line, like for a shortcut. When you click on a hyperlink, you
won't have the -safe-mode switch to load Firefox in its safe mode. For
example, when you click on a hyperlink in an e-mail, Firefox will load
in its normal (non-safe) mode which is when you have problems.

Since safe mode worked, and to eliminate having to somehow get Firefox
always loaded in safe mode, instead create a new Firefox profile. That
won't have any extensions installed, no changes by any extensions (since
none installed yet), and get rid of any tweaks on about:config that you
might've made that perhaps cause the problem. A new profile gives you
the equivalent of a clean install of Firefox.
  #7  
Old September 2nd 18, 06:26 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 627
Default Javascript and FF 52.9.0

On Fri, 24 Aug 2018 01:27:31 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

gfretwell wrote:

Safe mode certainly makes it better. I am thinking about just using
safe mode all the time.


Safe mode uses some default settings but mostly disables all extensions
which make my wonder if you really had all extensions disabled before.

You can have Firefox go into safe mode only by using a -safe-mode
command-line switch. That will work if you always load Firefox using a
command line, like for a shortcut. When you click on a hyperlink, you
won't have the -safe-mode switch to load Firefox in its safe mode. For
example, when you click on a hyperlink in an e-mail, Firefox will load
in its normal (non-safe) mode which is when you have problems.

Since safe mode worked, and to eliminate having to somehow get Firefox
always loaded in safe mode, instead create a new Firefox profile. That
won't have any extensions installed, no changes by any extensions (since
none installed yet), and get rid of any tweaks on about:config that you
might've made that perhaps cause the problem. A new profile gives you
the equivalent of a clean install of Firefox.


I did a refresh that is supposed to create a fresh profile but that
didn't work. I did notice one thing. I used to have Ad Block running
and now it seems to have disappeared but I still get the nag screen
that tells me to turn it off on some sites.
I am wondering if it is partially installed and that is the code that
is getting hung up.
I am thinking about reinstalling it.
Running "safe" does work.
  #8  
Old September 2nd 18, 07:58 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Javascript and FF 52.9.0

gfretwell wrote:

I did a refresh that is supposed to create a fresh profile but that
didn't work. I did notice one thing. I used to have Ad Block running
and now it seems to have disappeared but I still get the nag screen
that tells me to turn it off on some sites.
I am wondering if it is partially installed and that is the code that
is getting hung up.
I am thinking about reinstalling it.
Running "safe" does work.


A fresh profile (by using Firefox's refresh) won't have Adblock or any
other extension installed in it. Nothing is in your new profile other
than the default settings. Unless you installed Adblock again, it is
not in the new profile.

Are you running something OUTSIDE the web browser that affects your web
traffic? There are adblockers that work system-wide on all web-centric
programs. Are you using a bloated anti-virus suite that does more than
detect for malware?

Did you flush all of the web browser's local data? Go into Options -
Privacy & Security - History section. Enable "Clear history when
Firefox closes" and then click on the Settings button. Enable all data
types to clear them on Firefox's exit. Load Firefox, exit Firefox, load
it again, and revisit the sites still saying you have an adblocker. A
new profile should've gotten rid of all that crap but I don't know how
you have been using the web browser after creating a new profile.

Did you configure Firefox to always load in private mode? Options -
Privacy & Security - History section, "Always use private browsing
mode". In private mode, Firefox will use a blocklist they get from
Disconnect.me. It's not a very big blocklist but it could affect the
sites you visit as seeing you are blocking some of their content.
Mozilla calls it "tracking protection" in private mode.

https://www.theverge.com/2015/11/3/9...ocker-tracking
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2015/1...ng-experience/

You could disable tracking protection to see if the sites stop bitching;
however, perhaps you can find the same or equivalent content elsewhere
rather than allow the site to track your visits or between affiliation
sites.
  #9  
Old September 2nd 18, 08:18 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 627
Default Javascript and FF 52.9.0

On Sun, 2 Sep 2018 01:58:43 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

gfretwell wrote:

I did a refresh that is supposed to create a fresh profile but that
didn't work. I did notice one thing. I used to have Ad Block running
and now it seems to have disappeared but I still get the nag screen
that tells me to turn it off on some sites.
I am wondering if it is partially installed and that is the code that
is getting hung up.
I am thinking about reinstalling it.
Running "safe" does work.


A fresh profile (by using Firefox's refresh) won't have Adblock or any
other extension installed in it. Nothing is in your new profile other
than the default settings. Unless you installed Adblock again, it is
not in the new profile.

Are you running something OUTSIDE the web browser that affects your web
traffic? There are adblockers that work system-wide on all web-centric
programs. Are you using a bloated anti-virus suite that does more than
detect for malware?

Did you flush all of the web browser's local data? Go into Options -
Privacy & Security - History section. Enable "Clear history when
Firefox closes" and then click on the Settings button. Enable all data
types to clear them on Firefox's exit. Load Firefox, exit Firefox, load
it again, and revisit the sites still saying you have an adblocker. A
new profile should've gotten rid of all that crap but I don't know how
you have been using the web browser after creating a new profile.

Did you configure Firefox to always load in private mode? Options -
Privacy & Security - History section, "Always use private browsing
mode". In private mode, Firefox will use a blocklist they get from
Disconnect.me. It's not a very big blocklist but it could affect the
sites you visit as seeing you are blocking some of their content.
Mozilla calls it "tracking protection" in private mode.

https://www.theverge.com/2015/11/3/9...ocker-tracking
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2015/1...ng-experience/

You could disable tracking protection to see if the sites stop bitching;
however, perhaps you can find the same or equivalent content elsewhere
rather than allow the site to track your visits or between affiliation
sites.


Thanks. I will look into that. Putting the ad blocker back seems to be
making it work better now but I haven't used it much.
Since I really didn't do anything particular to break it in the first
place I am wondering if some site was experimenting with killing ad
blockers.
  #10  
Old September 2nd 18, 08:30 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
VanguardLH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,881
Default Javascript and FF 52.9.0

gfretwell wrote:

Thanks. I will look into that. Putting the ad blocker back seems to be
making it work better now but I haven't used it much.
Since I really didn't do anything particular to break it in the first
place I am wondering if some site was experimenting with killing ad
blockers.


There are lots of sites that employ adblocker blockers. It is their
property that you get to view for free. Their stuff, their rules.

There are even blocklists for such sites that try to block the
Javascript they use to detect you are blocking some of the site's
content; i.e., an ablocker blocker blocker blocklist. For example, I
use uBlock Origin and it can subscribe to an Adblock Warning Removal
List. I don't how effect is that blocklist as it is trying to undo the
Javascript in a web page that detects you are doing some blocking. This
is a war between content at web sites that generate them revenue so they
continue providing you with free content versus you deciding (well, the
adblocker deciding) what you will see. Remember that adblockers are
removing content, not just preventing tracking. You could disable
Javascript to eliminate most adblock blocking but that would make most
sites crippled or useless, and why adblockers only target some "bad"
resources.

Sites will invent new ways to get around adblockers. Besides trying to
detect if you are blocking some of their content, they can make all
their content as dynamic (it's all Javascripted) and store it at the
resources commonly found in blocklists used by adblockers. Basically
they're telling all adblocking visitor to **** off. The visitor will be
blocking the good content because it is hosted at a "bad" source. There
are companies that provide services to sites to detect adblocking
(they're cashing in on sites wanting to stop losing revenue) while some
are free, like blockadblock.com. One way is social engineering: tell
the visitor they don't get to see their content unless the freeloader
disables adblocking. Again, their stuff, their rules.

I find uBlock Origin much easier to use than Adblock Plus (if that's the
one you are using). In its advanced mode, I can choose what to allow at
a site but the allow rule is ONLY for that site, not everywhere that I
happen to visit later. Adblock Plus' allow rule is global instead of
site-specific. Yes, you can define your own user-defined rule to make
the allow as site-specific but then you have to do the definition after
figuring out the syntax. With uBlock Origin, I just click in a cell to
make the allow site-specific or click the row to make it global. In its
non-advanced or basic mode, uBlock Origin isn't much different than
Adblock Plus.

I also use uMatrix but don't have it block everything it does by
default. I have it allow everything except 3rd party script sources.
For example, I don't need to bother block XHR (XMLHttpRequest) because
3rd party scripts are already blocked. I don't need to add sites to a
whitelist to get XHR blocking as in NoScript. Again, with the table
(matrix), I can simply click a cell or row depending if I want the allow
or block rule defined per-site or globally.
 




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