Is StartPage OK to hide search from Opera Proxy & ISP??????

Mayayana,

There is, actually, a setting to stop that:

I was thinking that it would be an actual change to the involved URL, not
just to what you're seeing : the browser shows you whats in the "href"
portion, but the click gets catched by an JS "onclick" event.

Would make sense too, as they than do not need to serve different pages to
people with, and without scripting enabled.

dom.disable_window_status_change

I'm putting that into into my FF notes. Thank you for mentioning it.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

"R.Wieser" wrote

| I was thinking that it would be an actual change to the involved URL, not
| just to what you're seeing : the browser shows you whats in the "href"
| portion, but the click gets catched by an JS "onclick" event.
|

I guess that's possible, but I've never seen it. I do
see an increasing number of links that don't work because
they depend on script. But the scripted ones I've seen
don't have an HREF. The page I see at Google has no script
in the links, but that might be because I have it disabled
and they gave me a noscript version.

On the other hand, if you have HREF="somewhere.com"
while onclick sends you to theotherplace.com, that seems
like a recipe for trouble.

| dom.disable_window_status_change
|
| I'm putting that into into my FF notes. Thank you for mentioning it.
|

I've posted this before, but in case people
haven't see it:

https://www.jsware.net/jsware/browse...hp5#mozprefchm

It's a CHM file I compiled with 450+ searchable prefs.
It's more than a year old now, but still contains the
vast majority of settings with explanations. One of
these days I may update it.

Mayayana,

On the other hand, if you have HREF="somewhere.com"
while onclick sends you to theotherplace.com, that seems
like a recipe for trouble.

True. And now you mention it, I take it that browser makers would cut that
trick short because of just that. In other words, my idea about JS
rewriting the URL, or even intercepting the click on a link-with-valid-HREF
most likely won't work..

but in case people haven't see it:

I can't remember having seen it, and have downloaded the zip to take a peek.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 13:19:35 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"R.Wieser" wrote

| I was thinking that it would be an actual change to the involved URL, not
| just to what you're seeing : the browser shows you whats in the "href"
| portion, but the click gets catched by an JS "onclick" event.
|

I guess that's possible, but I've never seen it. I do
see an increasing number of links that don't work because
they depend on script. But the scripted ones I've seen
don't have an HREF. The page I see at Google has no script
in the links, but that might be because I have it disabled
and they gave me a noscript version.

On the other hand, if you have HREF="somewhere.com"
while onclick sends you to theotherplace.com, that seems
like a recipe for trouble.

| dom.disable_window_status_change
|
| I'm putting that into into my FF notes. Thank you for mentioning it.
|

I've posted this before, but in case people
haven't see it:

https://www.jsware.net/jsware/browse...hp5#mozprefchm


Many thanks for the repost. I did not see the post one year ago.

"Monty" wrote

| https://www.jsware.net/jsware/browse...hp5#mozprefchm
|
| Many thanks for the repost. I did not see the post one year ago.
|

Perhaps also worth mentioning is that it's not
too hard for people to decompile a CHM and edit
or add pages as you see fit. You can do your own
updates.

This link will get you the HTML Help Workshop

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/down....aspx?id=21138

It's a very simple, primitive program. One of its
functions is to decompile CHM files. There's just one
catch: The project file, .hhp, which is needed to
recompile, is not in there.
For anyone who wants to make their own version,
you can decompile to a folder, then add a file
aaprefs.hhp containiong the following:

[OPTIONS]
Binary TOC=Yes
Compatibility=1.1 or later
Compiled file=MozPrefs.chm
Contents file=aaMozCont.hhc
Default Font=Tahoma,8,0
Default topic=About.Moz.Prefs.html
Display compile progress=No
Full-text search=Yes
Index file=aaprefs.hhk
Language=0x409 English (United States)
Title=Moz Prefs


[FILES]

Following that, list every file in the project,
alphabetically, one line for each. You then
need to edit the HHK and HHC files to reflect
any new pages. (Those are the index and
contents listings.)
Then just double-click the HHP file to open
it in Help Workshop and compile it.

Most of the work is just in doing the research
and writing the HTML files. It requires a file
for each page. But it pays off. In this case, for
example, I only had to open the CHM file and
search for "status" to find the listing. Much easier
than searching through the hodge podge of pref
docs from Mozilla.

Mayayana,

Perhaps also worth mentioning is that it's not
too hard for people to decompile a CHM and edit
or add pages as you see fit. You can do your own
updates.

You must have been reading my mind. :-)

Thanks again.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 13:19:35 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

I've posted this before, but in case people
haven't see it:

https://www.jsware.net/jsware/browse...hp5#mozprefchm

It's a CHM file I compiled with 450+ searchable prefs.
It's more than a year old now, but still contains the
vast majority of settings with explanations. One of
these days I may update it.

Strange that the page referred to refuses to load in MS-Edge
claiming that the browser doesn't follow rules. In fact Edge renders
the Acid3 test perfectly and scores well on the html5test.com page
too. About time people recognised Edge as the default MSFT Windows
browser, and a perfectly competent one too.

"mechanic" wrote

| Strange that the page referred to refuses to load in MS-Edge
| claiming that the browser doesn't follow rules. In fact Edge renders
| the Acid3 test perfectly and scores well on the html5test.com page
| too. About time people recognised Edge as the default MSFT Windows
| browser, and a perfectly competent one too.

Sorry. But the page also explains that you can use
*any* other browser, of just about any age, including
IE 5-10. Or IE11 if you set compatibility mode for jsware.
(In that case, IE11 will render as IE7 and will even spoof
the userAgent to look like IE7.)
Since you're using Win10 you also have IE11 pre-installed,
so you don't even need to install a new browser to
render my website.

My error page also explains the problem. But for those
who don't know.....

Historically, Microsoft have made a browser that's not
only incompatible with standards but is also incompatible
with all other versions of itself.

In order to support as widely as possible, with simple,
script-free, lightweight webpages, I created 2 sets of
webpages. One is for IE "quirks mode", which means I
code the page in such a way that all versions of IE will
render it the same way. The other set of pages works
dependably in all other browsers, as far as I know.
(I don't test Safari but have tested WebKit.) And if
you use any non-MS browser then you don't need to
enable script. I only use script to deal with IE problems
in connection with CSS.

So I've already created a duplicate website
just to work with Microsoft's ongoing mess.

Then MS broke everything with IE11/Edge. All of the
functionality that was always part of IE was blocked
in IE11 and removed from Edge! That's why my page
explains that you can set an exception for jsware in
IE11 but that Edge simply won't and can't work. It's
IE with IE stripped out.

There's also another big problem with Edge: It's
not really browser software. Like Safari, it can't be
installed. It's only available by buying a device.
Should I buy a Windows 10 computer and possibly
write a 3rd set of webpages for Edge? Maybe I should
also buy a Mac so I can test Safari? Will Edge handle
the webpages I wrote to work in all non-IE browsers?
I don't know. And it would cost me both time and
money to find out. And actually, very few people are
using Edge. Despite the fact that my site is Windows-
related, few visitors are using Edge. Of those that
do, most come back so fast with Firefox that it's
clear they're using both browsers. So why should I
waste my time?

If I were Amazon and were busy vacuuming cash
from your wallet I might do that. But almost everything
on my site is free. No one is paying me to adapt to
niche products like Edge. And I don't see a reason to.
There are a number of other browsers that are free
and, unlike Edge, are real software that will run on
all Windows versions. And my clean, lean, pages
will load almost instantly in any of them. No ads,
no script muck, no funny business, no Flash, no
autoplay videos. No messages like Google will show
you, saying, "Sorry, buddy, but your browser seems
to be more than 6 months old. Please fix that so you
can see our latest HTML5 razzmatazz."

If you like Edge and find it works well then that's
your choice. But it sounds like you're not finding
that it works well. If it doesn't render sites as well
as Firefox then that's Microsoft's fault. You can keep
using it and complaining, or you can get a browser
that works. I don't have any sympathy and I have no
intention of supporting Edge.

If they make a real browser that installs on Win7 I'll
test my site with it and see if it will work. But at this
point I haven't even been able to get IE11 to install
on my main Win7 computer. That's pretty bad, when
your own software won't work on your own OS.

Paul has suggested in the past that I could download
test versions of IE for free to test my pages. But those
are not actually test versions of IE. They're fullscale
Windows ISOs, each providing the ability to test pages
in one version of IE and useless for any other purpose!
Should I wrangle those monstrosities so that you won't
have to lift your finger and click the IE icon in order to
get something for free? ...Fat chance.

mechanic wrote:
On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 13:19:35 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

I've posted this before, but in case people
haven't see it:

https://www.jsware.net/jsware/browse...hp5#mozprefchm

It's a CHM file I compiled with 450+ searchable prefs.
It's more than a year old now, but still contains the
vast majority of settings with explanations. One of
these days I may update it.

Strange that the page referred to refuses to load in MS-Edge
claiming that the browser doesn't follow rules. In fact Edge renders
the Acid3 test perfectly and scores well on the html5test.com page
too. About time people recognised Edge as the default MSFT Windows
browser, and a perfectly competent one too.

You have to admit though, it's pretty funny :-)

https://s33.postimg.cc/5pmc8kjdb/browserwars.gif

https://s33.postimg.cc/bdsmzhqan/browserwars2.gif

Especially at the bottom of the second screenshot, where
it says "Do more with Edge" :-) Apparently, not.

Paul

"Paul" wrote

| You have to admit though, it's pretty funny :-)
|
| https://s33.postimg.cc/5pmc8kjdb/browserwars.gif
|
| https://s33.postimg.cc/bdsmzhqan/browserwars2.gif
|
| Especially at the bottom of the second screenshot, where
| it says "Do more with Edge" :-) Apparently, not.
|

Another seemingly funny thing: It looks like
Edge gives you a choice between having a shortcuts
bar or having a bar that tells you that you could
have a shortcuts bar. But no option to just hide
the bar?

On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 12:28:39 +0100, mechanic wrote:

Strange that the page referred to refuses to load in MS-Edge
claiming that the browser doesn't follow rules.

What did the site shows, exactly?

On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 09:24:56 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

Sorry. But the page also explains that you can use
*any* other browser, of just about any age, including
IE 5-10. Or IE11 if you set compatibility mode for jsware.
(In that case, IE11 will render as IE7 and will even spoof
the userAgent to look like IE7.)
Since you're using Win10 you also have IE11 pre-installed,
so you don't even need to install a new browser to
render my website.

My error page also explains the problem.

You mean this?

Our menus will not function in IE11 or Edge.
Our webpages are fully functional viewed in any other browser.

Really? I'm curious because you didn't give a chance for anyone to test that
claim. So I opened it on Opera then save the home page (i.e.
https://www.jsware.net/) into my PC. Then opened the saved page using MSIE
v11 (which is set to Edge mode by default).

Lo and behold! It works!! It's a miracle!!!

https://i.imgur.com/tnyjZit.png

Care to explain?

On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 15:37:10 +0300, R Radev wrote:

Do you know how web pages in tabs KNOW that you're focused on them?
Is that just a local thing or is that focus knowledge communicated to a
server?

That's a local thing by default. It's only possible if JavaScript is
enabled. Events such as tab activation/deactivation, mouse movements/clicks,
keyboard pressess, etc. can be listened by scripts. A server will know those
events only if the scripts specifically send a report to it. IME, some
analytic scripts actually do this.

"JJ" wrote

|

| Our menus will not function in IE11 or Edge.
| Our webpages are fully functional viewed in any other browser.
|

|
| Really? I'm curious because you didn't give a chance for anyone to test
that
| claim.

| So I opened it on Opera then save the home page (i.e.
| https://www.jsware.net/) into my PC. Then opened the saved page using MSIE
| v11 (which is set to Edge mode by default).
|
| Lo and behold! It works!! It's a miracle!!!
|
| https://i.imgur.com/tnyjZit.png
|
| Care to explain?

Are you saying that I should just put the
pages up there without testing them, give the
Gecko/WebKit version to Edge and IE11, and let
visitors decide if they render OK?

I'm guessing you don't have a website or a
business of any kind where you feel responsible for
the product.

What if it doesn't render well and people start
writing to me to complain? Are you volunteering to
answer the email? Or what if it works OK but looks
funky? Would you like to drop off a Win10 computer
for me to test on, so I can make sure it doesn't look
funky? I don't want to have a site that's looking
wrong to a lot of visitors. But if you want to donate
the computer then I'm willing to spend some time
testing. (Though I'm *not* willing to spend time
rewriting for Edge.)

Aside from being a bit purple, your version of
the homepage looks almost right, but it's missing
some background images. That's a set of
images specced to be the background of a DIV,
around the white box. You should have seen that
in Opera.

On Tue, 4 Sep 2018 19:35:39 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

"JJ" wrote

|

| Our menus will not function in IE11 or Edge.
| Our webpages are fully functional viewed in any other browser.
|

|
| Really? I'm curious because you didn't give a chance for anyone to test
that
| claim.

| So I opened it on Opera then save the home page (i.e.
| https://www.jsware.net/) into my PC. Then opened the saved page using MSIE
| v11 (which is set to Edge mode by default).
|
| Lo and behold! It works!! It's a miracle!!!
|
| https://i.imgur.com/tnyjZit.png
|
| Care to explain?

Are you saying that I should just put the
pages up there without testing them, give the
Gecko/WebKit version to Edge and IE11, and let
visitors decide if they render OK?

No. I'm only saying that the menu works on Edge and IE11, and you don't have
to block visitors when they use Edge/IE11.

What if it doesn't render well and people start
writing to me to complain? Are you volunteering to
answer the email? Or what if it works OK but looks
funky? Would you like to drop off a Win10 computer
for me to test on, so I can make sure it doesn't look
funky? I don't want to have a site that's looking
wrong to a lot of visitors. But if you want to donate
the computer then I'm willing to spend some time
testing. (Though I'm *not* willing to spend time
rewriting for Edge.)

Well, it does render pretty well.

If you don't have Win10 for testing, why did you claim that it won't work on
Edge/IE11?

Aside from being a bit purple, your version of
the homepage looks almost right, but it's missing
some background images. That's a set of
images specced to be the background of a DIV,
around the white box. You should have seen that
in Opera.

That's Opera's fault for failing to include the hometop.jpg file when the
page is saved. It's not Edge/IE11 problem. The background image is also
missing if I open the saved file on Opera, Chrome, or Firefox.