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#1
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
I've got a Dell 400SC and a Dell SC420, both vaguely similar (they
have different motherboards). Both are running XP Pro SP1 The 400SC has a couple of IDE drives and a Seagate 200GB SATA. It's not a boot drive. The 420 has just one drive, a 160GB Maxtor SATA. I wanted to be able to move the Seagate between the two so I got a couple of SATA racks (Kingwin KF-72, (which turns out to be a tight fit) When I put the Seagate in the tray in the same computer where it had been permanent, it continued to work fine except that every time I boot, the system tells me the drive wasn't shut down properly and wants to check it. No errors are found. When I put the drive in the tray in the 420, it's not recognized. Disk manager knows it's there, but says it has a "foreign" file system. Help? |
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#2
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
"JT" wrote in message
... I've got a Dell 400SC and a Dell SC420, both vaguely similar (they have different motherboards). Both are running XP Pro SP1 The 400SC has a couple of IDE drives and a Seagate 200GB SATA. It's not a boot drive. The 420 has just one drive, a 160GB Maxtor SATA. I wanted to be able to move the Seagate between the two so I got a couple of SATA racks (Kingwin KF-72, (which turns out to be a tight fit) When I put the Seagate in the tray in the same computer where it had been permanent, it continued to work fine except that every time I boot, the system tells me the drive wasn't shut down properly and wants to check it. No errors are found. Sounds like you just got a passive tray that doesn't notify the system of the device removal. Of course, you yanking the drive while the power is still on is bad for the drive (and mobo circuitry) plus the platters are still spinning and you'll damage the heads or platter. You don't mention what the removable drive chassis has for features but maybe it protects you from removing a still-powered, still-spinning hard drive. Maybe it uses an electro-magnetic lock with a capacitor for delay in releasing a mechanism to prevent removal of the drive until you have powered down the system and the drive has probably stopped spinning. Oops, you're talking about a Kingwin unit. Nevermind. In any case, have you configured the removable drive (which apparently has no software installed for the drive chassis to let the OS know of removal) so that caching is disabled (which will slow down the drive)? In Device Manager, look at the properties for the hard drive. Disable write caching for that drive. Then select to optimize for quick removal. When I put the drive in the tray in the 420, it's not recognized. Disk manager knows it's there, but says it has a "foreign" file system. The drive has to be part of the hardware of your system BEFORE the operating system loads which then detects hardware on load up. A lot of drive chassis are just passive devices that provide a means of quickly connecting/disconnecting their power and signal cables. That is not sufficient to provide notification to the OS of the removal and insertion of hardware. Insert the removable hard drive while the 420 is powered down and then boot up. Is the Kingwin drive tray designed to be used as a *hot-swap* tray? From what little description there was at http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...121-163&depa=1 and http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...121-114&depa=1 (where I buy a lot of stuff online), there is no mention that it is a HOT-SWAP drive tray. It is highly unlikely you are getting a *hot-swap* rack & tray pair for a piddly $20. Kingwin's article at http://www.kingwin.com/support_faq.a...bile%20Rack#35 says their drive trays are not truly hot-swappable. Are you powering down, waiting for the drives to stop spinning, swapping or inserting the mobile drive, and then powering up to boot into the OS? It is possible the Kingwin unit includes protection circuitry that lets you remove/insert a drive while it is still powered (but you still run into being careful about the platters still spinning) but at $14 for the chassis and $8 per tray then these might just be cheap passive units that merely disconnect the power and signal cable (hopefully in the right order). The Kingwin's are cheap passive drive trays. Hot-swap drive trays will cost you about $80, and up. Because of geometry translation to make a drive *logically* larger (LBA mode which almost always triggers geometry translation), it is possible that the geometry translation is different between different host. How one BIOS and the IDE controller it uses tranlate a drive may not be the same as a different host's BIOS and controller's translation. Now you're adding SATA into the mix and that's a new spec that has different means of implementing SATA in the hardware (might be bridged, might be direct) and perhaps using controllers from different vendors. SATA is not a mature hardware technology like ATAPI (IDE). Yeah, them both being Dells doesn't mean anything regarding their hardware. Dells sells by spec, not by compatibility of hardware. You buy model X one week and it is composed of a specific set of hardware but next week that same model X has a whole bunch of different hardware, and you're talking about different models. One week model X has a Promise IDE controller to provide UDMA-133 support and the next they use a different mobo with different BIOS and controller chips that provides built-in UDMA-133 support. Dell slaps together whatever matches the sales spec for the cheapest hardware they have that week. -- __________________________________________________ _______________ Post your replies to the newsgroup. Share with others. E-mail: news.vanguardATgmail.com (append "#NEWS#" to Subject) __________________________________________________ _______________ |
#3
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
Although the tray calls itself hot swap I have not interest in using
that feature. In every case the drive was in the rack before the computer was turned on. "Vanguard" see_signature wrote: "JT" wrote in message .. . I've got a Dell 400SC and a Dell SC420, both vaguely similar (they have different motherboards). Both are running XP Pro SP1 The 400SC has a couple of IDE drives and a Seagate 200GB SATA. It's not a boot drive. The 420 has just one drive, a 160GB Maxtor SATA. I wanted to be able to move the Seagate between the two so I got a couple of SATA racks (Kingwin KF-72, (which turns out to be a tight fit) When I put the Seagate in the tray in the same computer where it had been permanent, it continued to work fine except that every time I boot, the system tells me the drive wasn't shut down properly and wants to check it. No errors are found. Sounds like you just got a passive tray that doesn't notify the system of the device removal. Of course, you yanking the drive while the power is still on is bad for the drive (and mobo circuitry) plus the platters are still spinning and you'll damage the heads or platter. You don't mention what the removable drive chassis has for features but maybe it protects you from removing a still-powered, still-spinning hard drive. Maybe it uses an electro-magnetic lock with a capacitor for delay in releasing a mechanism to prevent removal of the drive until you have powered down the system and the drive has probably stopped spinning. Oops, you're talking about a Kingwin unit. Nevermind. In any case, have you configured the removable drive (which apparently has no software installed for the drive chassis to let the OS know of removal) so that caching is disabled (which will slow down the drive)? In Device Manager, look at the properties for the hard drive. Disable write caching for that drive. Then select to optimize for quick removal. When I put the drive in the tray in the 420, it's not recognized. Disk manager knows it's there, but says it has a "foreign" file system. The drive has to be part of the hardware of your system BEFORE the operating system loads which then detects hardware on load up. A lot of drive chassis are just passive devices that provide a means of quickly connecting/disconnecting their power and signal cables. That is not sufficient to provide notification to the OS of the removal and insertion of hardware. Insert the removable hard drive while the 420 is powered down and then boot up. Is the Kingwin drive tray designed to be used as a *hot-swap* tray? From what little description there was at http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...121-163&depa=1 and http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...121-114&depa=1 (where I buy a lot of stuff online), there is no mention that it is a HOT-SWAP drive tray. It is highly unlikely you are getting a *hot-swap* rack & tray pair for a piddly $20. Kingwin's article at http://www.kingwin.com/support_faq.a...bile%20Rack#35 says their drive trays are not truly hot-swappable. Are you powering down, waiting for the drives to stop spinning, swapping or inserting the mobile drive, and then powering up to boot into the OS? It is possible the Kingwin unit includes protection circuitry that lets you remove/insert a drive while it is still powered (but you still run into being careful about the platters still spinning) but at $14 for the chassis and $8 per tray then these might just be cheap passive units that merely disconnect the power and signal cable (hopefully in the right order). The Kingwin's are cheap passive drive trays. Hot-swap drive trays will cost you about $80, and up. Because of geometry translation to make a drive *logically* larger (LBA mode which almost always triggers geometry translation), it is possible that the geometry translation is different between different host. How one BIOS and the IDE controller it uses tranlate a drive may not be the same as a different host's BIOS and controller's translation. Now you're adding SATA into the mix and that's a new spec that has different means of implementing SATA in the hardware (might be bridged, might be direct) and perhaps using controllers from different vendors. SATA is not a mature hardware technology like ATAPI (IDE). Yeah, them both being Dells doesn't mean anything regarding their hardware. Dells sells by spec, not by compatibility of hardware. You buy model X one week and it is composed of a specific set of hardware but next week that same model X has a whole bunch of different hardware, and you're talking about different models. One week model X has a Promise IDE controller to provide UDMA-133 support and the next they use a different mobo with different BIOS and controller chips that provides built-in UDMA-133 support. Dell slaps together whatever matches the sales spec for the cheapest hardware they have that week. |
#4
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
Did you try to import a foreign disk if 'file system' is just a typo?
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#5
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
"JT" wrote in message
news Although the tray calls itself hot swap I have not interest in using that feature. In every case the drive was in the rack before the computer was turned on. "Vanguard" see_signature wrote: "JT" wrote in message . .. I've got a Dell 400SC and a Dell SC420, both vaguely similar (they have different motherboards). Both are running XP Pro SP1 The 400SC has a couple of IDE drives and a Seagate 200GB SATA. It's not a boot drive. The 420 has just one drive, a 160GB Maxtor SATA. I wanted to be able to move the Seagate between the two so I got a couple of SATA racks (Kingwin KF-72, (which turns out to be a tight fit) When I put the Seagate in the tray in the same computer where it had been permanent, it continued to work fine except that every time I boot, the system tells me the drive wasn't shut down properly and wants to check it. No errors are found. Sounds like you just got a passive tray that doesn't notify the system of the device removal. Of course, you yanking the drive while the power is still on is bad for the drive (and mobo circuitry) plus the platters are still spinning and you'll damage the heads or platter. You don't mention what the removable drive chassis has for features but maybe it protects you from removing a still-powered, still-spinning hard drive. Maybe it uses an electro-magnetic lock with a capacitor for delay in releasing a mechanism to prevent removal of the drive until you have powered down the system and the drive has probably stopped spinning. Oops, you're talking about a Kingwin unit. Nevermind. In any case, have you configured the removable drive (which apparently has no software installed for the drive chassis to let the OS know of removal) so that caching is disabled (which will slow down the drive)? In Device Manager, look at the properties for the hard drive. Disable write caching for that drive. Then select to optimize for quick removal. When I put the drive in the tray in the 420, it's not recognized. Disk manager knows it's there, but says it has a "foreign" file system. The drive has to be part of the hardware of your system BEFORE the operating system loads which then detects hardware on load up. A lot of drive chassis are just passive devices that provide a means of quickly connecting/disconnecting their power and signal cables. That is not sufficient to provide notification to the OS of the removal and insertion of hardware. Insert the removable hard drive while the 420 is powered down and then boot up. Is the Kingwin drive tray designed to be used as a *hot-swap* tray? From what little description there was at http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...121-163&depa=1 and http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...121-114&depa=1 (where I buy a lot of stuff online), there is no mention that it is a HOT-SWAP drive tray. It is highly unlikely you are getting a *hot-swap* rack & tray pair for a piddly $20. Kingwin's article at http://www.kingwin.com/support_faq.a...bile%20Rack#35 says their drive trays are not truly hot-swappable. Are you powering down, waiting for the drives to stop spinning, swapping or inserting the mobile drive, and then powering up to boot into the OS? It is possible the Kingwin unit includes protection circuitry that lets you remove/insert a drive while it is still powered (but you still run into being careful about the platters still spinning) but at $14 for the chassis and $8 per tray then these might just be cheap passive units that merely disconnect the power and signal cable (hopefully in the right order). The Kingwin's are cheap passive drive trays. Hot-swap drive trays will cost you about $80, and up. Because of geometry translation to make a drive *logically* larger (LBA mode which almost always triggers geometry translation), it is possible that the geometry translation is different between different host. How one BIOS and the IDE controller it uses tranlate a drive may not be the same as a different host's BIOS and controller's translation. Now you're adding SATA into the mix and that's a new spec that has different means of implementing SATA in the hardware (might be bridged, might be direct) and perhaps using controllers from different vendors. SATA is not a mature hardware technology like ATAPI (IDE). Yeah, them both being Dells doesn't mean anything regarding their hardware. Dells sells by spec, not by compatibility of hardware. You buy model X one week and it is composed of a specific set of hardware but next week that same model X has a whole bunch of different hardware, and you're talking about different models. One week model X has a Promise IDE controller to provide UDMA-133 support and the next they use a different mobo with different BIOS and controller chips that provides built-in UDMA-133 support. Dell slaps together whatever matches the sales spec for the cheapest hardware they have that week. Have you tried swapping the SATA drive in and out and back in on the Dell 400SC not by using the Kingwin drive tray but instead just yanking the power and signal cable, boot, test, power down, reconnect the power and signal cable, reboot, and test again? Basically you need to find out first if the hardware and OS work okay with the drive getting removed and then reinserted but using the "permanent" connections. If that works but using the tray does not work then: (1) Tray is bad (bent pin, loose pin, damaged circuit board); or, (2) you don't have the signal cable properly connected (reversed, damaged during setup change, wrong type, not fully seated). I'd say to go back to checking if the SATA drive will use the regular or permanent connections to see if it still works. It that still works and the tray doesn't then the fault is in the tray in a defect or its setup. -- __________________________________________________ _______________ Post your replies to the newsgroup. Share with others. E-mail: news.vanguardATgmail.com (append "#NEWS#" to Subject) __________________________________________________ _______________ |
#6
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
Sorry, I don't understand the q. XP disk administrator identifies the
file system as "foreign" just as for the boot drive in the system it says "NTFS". Are you saying there's a tool I click to make the OS reevaluate the drive and recognize it differently? "Jetro" wrote: Did you try to import a foreign disk if 'file system' is just a typo? |
#7
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
Please read built-in Help (Win+F1) about "To move disks to another computer"
and "Disk status descriptions". |
#8
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
It sounds like BOTH systems may be using different SATA controllers and that
the drivers are not compatible between each. "JT" wrote in message ... Sorry, I don't understand the q. XP disk administrator identifies the file system as "foreign" just as for the boot drive in the system it says "NTFS". Are you saying there's a tool I click to make the OS reevaluate the drive and recognize it differently? "Jetro" wrote: Did you try to import a foreign disk if 'file system' is just a typo? |
#9
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
You're saying SATA is such a badly-defined (or badly-implemented)
standard that I can't move a working drive from one working controller to another working controller? That would seem to be a fatal flaw - even though you might not plan to move a drive as I did, a motherboard or controller failure could force you to do it, and you'd rather not have to search out a "compatible" replacement controller that Saturday night. "Yves Leclerc" wrote: It sounds like BOTH systems may be using different SATA controllers and that the drivers are not compatible between each. "JT" wrote in message .. . Sorry, I don't understand the q. XP disk administrator identifies the file system as "foreign" just as for the boot drive in the system it says "NTFS". Are you saying there's a tool I click to make the OS reevaluate the drive and recognize it differently? "Jetro" wrote: Did you try to import a foreign disk if 'file system' is just a typo? |
#10
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
Nobody defined the controller hardware only the interface and protocol.
Same thing goes for "PATA", or SCSI controllers. JT wrote: You're saying SATA is such a badly-defined (or badly-implemented) standard that I can't move a working drive from one working controller to another working controller? That would seem to be a fatal flaw - even though you might not plan to move a drive as I did, a motherboard or controller failure could force you to do it, and you'd rather not have to search out a "compatible" replacement controller that Saturday night. "Yves Leclerc" wrote: It sounds like BOTH systems may be using different SATA controllers and that the drivers are not compatible between each. "JT" wrote in message . .. Sorry, I don't understand the q. XP disk administrator identifies the file system as "foreign" just as for the boot drive in the system it says "NTFS". Are you saying there's a tool I click to make the OS reevaluate the drive and recognize it differently? "Jetro" wrote: Did you try to import a foreign disk if 'file system' is just a typo? |
#11
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Can't swap SATA drive between two XP Pro SP1 computers
There are only a handful of manufacturers that make SATA hardware. They
seem to all use different drivers but all of those drivers can handle the SATA drives correctly. It may mean that you need to install the different drivers so that the hard drive can be read on the different SATA controller. This is similar to when you set up SCSI drives. If you use one driver for the SCSI host interface, this will mean that you must use that interface until you replace the driver or you will not access the data. SATA standards are just starting. SATA standards has drive hot-swap but it is still not implemented yet. "Bob I" wrote in message ... Nobody defined the controller hardware only the interface and protocol. Same thing goes for "PATA", or SCSI controllers. JT wrote: You're saying SATA is such a badly-defined (or badly-implemented) standard that I can't move a working drive from one working controller to another working controller? That would seem to be a fatal flaw - even though you might not plan to move a drive as I did, a motherboard or controller failure could force you to do it, and you'd rather not have to search out a "compatible" replacement controller that Saturday night. "Yves Leclerc" wrote: It sounds like BOTH systems may be using different SATA controllers and that the drivers are not compatible between each. "JT" wrote in message ... Sorry, I don't understand the q. XP disk administrator identifies the file system as "foreign" just as for the boot drive in the system it says "NTFS". Are you saying there's a tool I click to make the OS reevaluate the drive and recognize it differently? "Jetro" wrote: Did you try to import a foreign disk if 'file system' is just a typo? |
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