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  #46  
Old February 26th 12, 02:11 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Steve Hayes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 507
Default USENET Posting styles (was Making a copy of a DVD)

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:33:45 -0500, "Robert Sudbury" noEMAILforYOU wrote:

Despite your apparent lack of conversation skills, I still scrolled through
to the bottom of your reply to read your one-line insult.

I respect your choice to bottom post, but I suggest you try to articulate
yourself in a less demeaning manner.

As for your argument pro or con, I see none.

"Erik Vastmasd" wrote in message
...
I caught a glimpse of "Robert Sudbury" noEMAILforYOU on Sat, 25 Feb
2012 01:02:48 -0500, writing in alt.windows7.general:

To compare a posting style to the unsafe operation of a motor vehicle is
ludicrious. The implied consequences are incomparable. Using a posting
style of one's choice doesn't place your health or life at risk.

Back in the days I used to reply mid-post, or in-line. This made it look
more like a live conversation. It was an editing nightmare and if it
wasn't
formatted properly or your recipient's reader sucked, the reader often
missed information. If the conversation required more than a single reply
from each person involved however... icky acky ooo, what a mess, and I
loved
it. Thought it was the cat's meow.

As flame wars ebbed and flowed, I decided to give bottom posting a swing.
Sure it's great to have a complete conversation, chronologically sorted
top
to bottom, but if the conversation was long, or the reply just as long, or
the topic too complex to edit down to a smaller quoted chunk, it could be
just as annoying to scroll through the entire message, and hope you find
the
start of the reply without having to scroll back. Then what happened if
you
edited out a chunk that was later deemed important?

This lasted about a week. I hated bottom posting ... then I switched to
top posting.

Top posting is where I'm at, and will stay at. Chances are, when you
opened
this letter, you recognized that the reply was `right here' ... three
seconds and you found your goal. Life is good. 8)

As for all those lovely arguments against Top-Posting that quote ancient
RFCs or netiquette. The internet and usenet were created by ... you
guessed
it, Engineers. When left to their own devices, Engineers tend to design
things for reasons other than business and personal 'use'. Engineers like
big thick manuals. Bottom posting is like a big thick manual. A b c d e f
g
h... neat, orderly. When you're an Engineer or a Scientist, you need to
know a b c d e in the order of a b c d e. That works... sure, but what
happens when you're a consumer, a user, a business? Do you care?

Long are gone the days when the usenet was used solely by academia.
Top-posting is immediate. Top posting is personal. Top-posting is for
the
masses.

Blogs = top post
Twitter logs = top post
News sites = top post
When was the last time you visited an information site that listed oldest
conversations first? A forum site probably ... but what else? Anything?
The point being, top posting offers you the shortest route, through the
least amount of effort, to the latest topics or information.

I will try to sum up my opinions for the reason for top posting in few
useful, daily life arguments.

1. Same concept goes for good paper filing systems. You file new to the
front ... where's the front of an email? top.

2. If you're vision-impaired, using a large font reader or you're
listening
to your news reader, following a conversation thread, that is say, 20
replies deep, how fast will you dump that thread, important or otherwise
if
you must wade through all that replied, quoted text, over and over,
message
after message to reach the simple responses all the way down at the
bottom?

3. If you're reading a `Thread' you probably already read it from the OP.
That's the purpose of the Thread title ... which BTW is at the top of the
thread message ... 8) As one reads through a thread, how much more time
is
wasted scrolling or paging down through quoted text just to reach a reply
several paragraphs long that you then must scroll page-up through to find
the actual beginning of the reply? Or worse, to an AOL'esque single line
or
monosyllabic response?

3. In this age of not just immediate gratification, but of the immediacy
of
information, anything but top posting, wastes time. We all know what time
is ... money. My time is valuable, your time is valuable. Learn to
structure your thoughts quickly. Put it to print. Get it out there and
move on.

4. How many of your parents, or grandparents still can't grasp the concept
of scrolling down or how to pull the scroll bar down to see the other 50
lines of your message beyond the mere 15 they can see after blowing their
screen res up to 800x600?

You may have heard "The medium is the message. ... The content is the
audience". For USENET, the medium is instantaneous, and so too should be
the message... this is the very essence of Top-posting.

Having said all this, in the end, posting style is all about personal
choice. It's up to the author to decide what is the best method for
getting
their message across. No one can say it's right or wrong, just of
differing
opinion, or merits.

Unlike a private company, on USENET there is no policy, and no one & no
way
to enforce it (unless it's a moderated ng of course). It's a public forum
for all dogs on the internet to have their chance to be praised, flamed or
ignored, regardless.

If you want popularity, go to Facebook or look in a mirror. USENET is not
a
private conversation, it's a publc dissemination of information,
discussions
and the occasional obligatory flame-war.

"Stan Brown" wrote in message
.net...
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:29:10 -0500, "Robert Sudbury" wrote:

Top-posting, in-line posting or bottom-posting is entirely up to the
individual.

Nonsense. You might as well say which side of the road to drive on
is a personal decision.

Sure, you *can* decide to do it differently from others, but it will
make a big mess if you do, and it will also make you unpopular.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 6913 (20120224) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com




Dick Head.

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
signature database 6913 (20120224) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com





You quoted all that just to say.... nothing.


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Ads
  #47  
Old February 26th 12, 02:12 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Steve Hayes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 507
Default USENET Posting styles (was Making a copy of a DVD)

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:40:27 -0500, "Robert Sudbury" noEMAILforYOU wrote:

Quite the opposite. I consider all time valuable.


Opposite to what?


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
  #48  
Old February 26th 12, 02:15 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Steve Hayes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 507
Default USENET Posting styles (was Making a copy of a DVD)

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 18:15:55 -0500, "Robert Sudbury" noEMAILforYOU wrote:

You're right. That extra text added by my AV is rather extraneous and
unnecessarily bulks the message.


Who's right?

Right about what?

What's an AV?

I've removed it from my settings.


Removed what from myour settings?

Thank you for pointing that out.


Pointing what out?


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
  #49  
Old February 26th 12, 02:27 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
choro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default USENET Posting styles (was Making a copy of a DVD)

Do people have sex just in the missionary position? No? Well then, there
is scope for all three types of responding depending on circumstances.

BTW, would the missionary position be top posting or bottom posting? ;-)
-- choro

On 26/02/2012 01:01, Ken Blake wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:46:32 -0500,
wrote:

On 2/25/2012 3:45 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:40:27 -0500, "Robert Sudbury"noEMAILforYOU
wrote:

Quite the opposite. I consider all time valuable.

WHAT is quite the opposite? Opposite of what? (Hang on while I scroll
down to see who and what you're replying to.) Ok, I'm back. Thanks for
making me scroll down and back up in order to make sense of your post.

I've just saved you three seconds by not bottom posting.

Hmm, but you cost me a lot more time than that by making me scroll
down and back up. What is it you're trying to accomplish, exactly? Are
you quite sure this isn't just a case of being too lazy to place your
comments where they make contextual sense?

Be honest now, when you opened or first viewed this message, what part of
the body of this reply did you see first?


Why scroll whenctrl+end andctrl+home are instantainious?



Whether those choices exist for you depends on what newsreader you
use. They are *not* all the same.

And whether you can scroll quickly using such shortcuts or not, they
are still extra steps that aren't necessary if the message isn't top
posted.

  #50  
Old February 26th 12, 02:28 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
choro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default USENET Posting styles (was Making a copy of a DVD)

Read what he is responding to, you stupid sod!
-- choro

On 26/02/2012 01:12, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:40:27 -0500, "Robert Sudbury"noEMAILforYOU wrote:

Quite the opposite. I consider all time valuable.


Opposite to what?


  #51  
Old February 26th 12, 03:07 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
sticks
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default USENET Posting styles (was Making a copy of a DVD)

On 2/25/2012 7:10 PM, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 16:04:06 -0600, wrote:


This combined with proper snipping makes a thread flow as in
conversation. Email, especially business email, is a different animal.


I would disagree. Even there top posting is silly, especially if one is
replying to a message that makes several points.


I didn't say I like it, I said it is a different animal. What's worse,
is you can't call out superiors as easily because of their lazy or
stupid behavior.
  #52  
Old February 26th 12, 04:16 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Char Jackson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,676
Default USENET Posting styles (was Making a copy of a DVD)

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:46:32 -0500, Zaidy036
wrote:

On 2/25/2012 3:45 PM, Char Jackson wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 12:40:27 -0500, "Robert Sudbury"noEMAILforYOU
wrote:

Be honest now, when you opened or first viewed this message, what part of
the body of this reply did you see first?


I saw the answer first, then I scrolled down to see the question, and
finally back up to re-read the answer. Thanks, I guess.

By the way, NOD32 can be configured to stop announcing that it has
checked your post prior to submission. We don't really need to see
that.


Why scroll when ctrl+end and ctrl+home are instantainious?


Why would you want to jump all the way to the end of the post? I've
never yet seen anyone put the attribution line down there. If you're
looking for the attribution line and the specific context of the post
being replied to, you can't jump to the end. You have to move down
until you find those things, whether by scrolling or other means.

--

Char Jackson
  #53  
Old February 26th 12, 06:39 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
Steve Hayes[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 507
Default USENET Posting styles (was Making a copy of a DVD)

On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 01:28:44 +0000, choro wrote:

Read what he is responding to, you stupid sod!


He said the way he posted he would save me three seconds because I wouldn't
need to scroll down.

But to read what he was responding to I would have to scroll down AND scroll
back up to reply, which would waste six seconds.

So in order to save the three seconds he said I would save, I have to respond
without knwing what he is responding to.






--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
  #54  
Old February 26th 12, 07:08 AM posted to alt.windows7.general
choro
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 911
Default USENET Posting styles (was Making a copy of a DVD)

On 26/02/2012 05:39, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 01:28:44 +0000, wrote:

Read what he is responding to, you stupid sod!


He said the way he posted he would save me three seconds because I wouldn't
need to scroll down.

But to read what he was responding to I would have to scroll down AND scroll
back up to reply, which would waste six seconds.

So in order to save the three seconds he said I would save, I have to respond
without knwing what he is responding to.


It's a bit like spending $50 bucks to save $5! Fact is there IS no right
way and wrong way. It all depends on the circumstances.
-- choro
  #55  
Old February 26th 12, 02:37 PM posted to alt.windows7.general
Wolf K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default USENET Posting styles (was Making a copy of a DVD)

On 25/02/2012 11:26 PM, Erik Vastmasd wrote:
I caught a glimpse of Stan on Sat, 25
Feb 2012 08:55:16 -0500, writing in alt.windows7.general:

On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 21:21:59 +1100, Erik Vastmasd wrote:

[130 lines or so of quoting, and a one-line comment]


I'm not a frequent poster, but I usually pride myself in being able to
create a reasonable well edited reply.

Hon, you need to trim your quotes. Upside-down posters while
"there's so much to scroll through" as an argument for their wrong
style. Don't give 'em ammunition.


On this occasion after reading so many messages about top posting, day
after day, I was showing my contempt for discourteous top posters.

In future I will show my contempt by adding them to Agent's kill
filters. ;-)


"Cutting off your nose to spite your face", it looks like.

Wolf K.
 




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