Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 16:48:46 +1200, Your Name
wrote:

On 2017-09-10 03:37:31 +0000, ATANARJUAT said:

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:37:51 -0400, PeterN wrote
in response to PeterN

Pay a good lawyer, who specializes in copyright issues. While in general
you may sometimes get common sense answers, there is more to legality
than good faith.

That's the dumbest answer anyone gave here yet.

Here's a similar platitude for you.

If someone asks how to tie their shoelaces, tell them that it can only be
done at the dealer by a professional trained in tying shoelaces.

Or by many five year olds. ;-)

The five year-olds are too busy explaining how to take photos on their
phone to older people.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On 2017-09-10 04:51:36 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:02:17 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

I think though, that we might just have to enforce loading of the font
package onto the Macs to solve the problem the /easiest/ way, even though
that solution doesn't meet the original specification.

Once the project is done, we would then delete the fonts from the Macs.

Is there an easy way to DELETE fonts on the Mac after the fact, like there
is with Windows FontFrenzy "de-fonting" software?

I'm going to guess that installing, embedding, and then deleting fonts on
the Mac is as easy as it is on Windows, which was as easy as copying the
font file to the "C:\Windows\Fonts\" directory as the unzipped free
font file named: "C:\Windows\Fonts\Roadgeek 2005 Series B Regular.ttf"
44KB
snip

It depends on what version of Mac OS X they are using. The best place
to put fonts is in the "Fonts" folder inside their own user's system
folder (called "Library") ... BUT it will only be available to that one
user account. You can of course repeat the process for each user
account.

One way is to use the application "Font Book" (comes with Mac OS X) to
add / remove fonts.

Another way is to manually copy the font file to the appropriate
folder. It used to be easy on a Mac, but in the newest version of Mac
OS, Apple hides the user's system folder ... supposedly to stop people
playing around and screwing it up.

In newer versions of Mac OS X you can still get to the user's system
folder. It's just a bit less obvious:

1. In the Finder choose "Go to Folder" from the "Go" menu.

2. Type in "~/Library/Fonts" (without the quote marks).

3. Put new font files in there - either drag the font file
across or use copy-paste.


Under older versions of Mac OS X:

1. Open up the computer's boot drive.

2. Open the "Users" folder.

3. Open the folder with their user name.

4. Open then the "Library" folder.

5. Open the "Fonts" folder.

6. Put new font files in there - either drag the font file
across or use copy-paste.





If they want the font to be installed for every user, then it's best to
put the font file in the "Fonts" folder inside the main Mac OS X system
folder ("Library") ... but they'will need to know an admin password for
the computer to be able do that.

1. Open up the computer's boot drive.

2. Open then the "Library" folder.

3. Open the "Fonts" folder.

4. Put new font files in there - either drag the font file
across or use copy-paste.

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 17:18:20 +1200, Your Name wrote:

If they want the font to be installed for every user, then it's best to
put the font file in the "Fonts" folder inside the main Mac OS X system
folder ("Library") ... but they'will need to know an admin password for
the computer to be able do that.

Wow. This is great information because I'm going to write up a project plan
so that the teacher can have the kids do their own humorous keep-out signs
on much cheaper blanks such as the $2 classic flimsy steel "keep out"
blanks from home depot as shown at the right in this photo.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/09/signs.jpg

I don't know if the school graphics lab has Windows machines, but it has
Macs so it's important that the kids can get useful work done on the Mac
too, so your information on how to handle fonts on the Mac is useful for
the project plan!

Thanks! I wish I had a Mac to test it out.

On 2017-09-10 04:58:24 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:31:41 +1200, Your Name wrote:

If you're distributing a PowerPoint document to be edited by other
people, then you're best to give them the original font files as well
(the original .zip archive, including the licence text if there is one)
for them to install.

The final solution will be different for the Mac than for Windows.

For Windows, I'll just provide the file which has the entire font set
embedded in it. This is the easiest for everyone to edit the file at will.

For the Mac, we have no choice but to provide the font file itself, and
then to have every Mac user install the font and then delete the font when
they are done with the project.
It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.
snip

Since it's a free font, there's no real need for anyone to delete it.

On 2017-09-10 05:12:10 +0000, Tony Cooper said:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 16:48:46 +1200, Your Name
wrote:
On 2017-09-10 03:37:31 +0000, ATANARJUAT said:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:37:51 -0400, PeterN wrote
in response to PeterN

Pay a good lawyer, who specializes in copyright issues. While in general
you may sometimes get common sense answers, there is more to legality
than good faith.

That's the dumbest answer anyone gave here yet.

Here's a similar platitude for you.

If someone asks how to tie their shoelaces, tell them that it can only be
done at the dealer by a professional trained in tying shoelaces.

Or by many five year olds. ;-)

The five year-olds are too busy explaining how to take photos on their
phone to older people.

Not any more. Some busy-bodies stuck their noses in and now you have to
limit the amount of "screen time" kids have .. which pretty much
destroys the ideas of other busy-bodies who are trying to get "computer
coding" as a necessity in kindergartens and junior schools.

On 2017-09-10 04:58:24 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:31:41 +1200, Your Name wrote:

If you're distributing a PowerPoint document to be edited by other
people, then you're best to give them the original font files as well
(the original .zip archive, including the licence text if there is one)
for them to install.

The final solution will be different for the Mac than for Windows.

For Windows, I'll just provide the file which has the entire font set
embedded in it. This is the easiest for everyone to edit the file at will.

For the Mac, we have no choice but to provide the font file itself, and
then to have every Mac user install the font and then delete the font when
they are done with the project.
It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.

Depending on the software (and user choices) Embeded fonts may or mauy
not include all the characters. Sometimes embedded fonts only include
the characters that have actually been used. If, for example, you
didn't use a lowercase z, then the emedded font may not include that z
character if someone else needs it.

On Windows the embedding is ridiculously easy, where you have the option of
no embedding, embedding of just the characters used, and embedding of all
the characters available in the font itself.

The various file sizes were perfectly reasonable and tiny in all cases:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_3.png

These are the file sizes with and without embedding:
Powerpoint without any font embedding = 91 KB
Powerpoint with only characters used embedded = 610 KB
Powerpoint with all font characters embedded = 1793 KB

After removal, the first file reverted to a jumbled mess:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_4.png

Even after removal, the second and third files above looked great:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_5.png

I think we have the final solution and the project plan figured out now,
with all the technical and legal details ironed out perfectly.

Thanks for your advice.

I guess it should be pointed out that Microsoft PowerPoint is meant to
be used to create presentations / slideshows. It's not really very good
as a desktop publishing application ... although it is better than
trying to use awful Microsoft Word for desktop publishing!

Chaya Eve wrote:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:31:41 +1200, Your Name wrote:

If you're distributing a PowerPoint document to be edited by other
people, then you're best to give them the original font files as well
(the original .zip archive, including the licence text if there is one)
for them to install.

The final solution will be different for the Mac than for Windows.

For Windows, I'll just provide the file which has the entire font set
embedded in it. This is the easiest for everyone to edit the file at will.

For the Mac, we have no choice but to provide the font file itself, and
then to have every Mac user install the font and then delete the font when
they are done with the project.

It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.

Depending on the software (and user choices) Embeded fonts may or mauy
not include all the characters. Sometimes embedded fonts only include
the characters that have actually been used. If, for example, you
didn't use a lowercase z, then the emedded font may not include that z
character if someone else needs it.

On Windows the embedding is ridiculously easy, where you have the option of
no embedding, embedding of just the characters used, and embedding of all
the characters available in the font itself.

The various file sizes were perfectly reasonable and tiny in all cases:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_3.png

These are the file sizes with and without embedding:
Powerpoint without any font embedding = 91 KB
Powerpoint with only characters used embedded = 610 KB
Powerpoint with all font characters embedded = 1793 KB

After removal, the first file reverted to a jumbled mess:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_4.png

Even after removal, the second and third files above looked great:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_5.png

I think we have the final solution and the project plan figured out now,
with all the technical and legal details ironed out perfectly.

Thanks for your advice.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Typog...roperty21.aspx

Font properties extension 2.30

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...9f5e/setup.exe

requirements - Windows XP or later (32-bit only)
use - 'Right click' on a font file (TrueType or OpenType)
and choose properties from the menu.

Example:

https://s26.postimg.org/9nskxef21/Mi..._Extension.gif

It looks like the license info is right in the TTF file, but without
the properties extension, may not be (normally) visible in Windows.

Paul

Chaya Eve wrote:

It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.

What's dictating that this should use powerpoint?

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 06:32:21 -0400, Paul wrote:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Typog...roperty21.aspx

Font properties extension 2.30

http://download.microsoft.com/downlo...9f5e/setup.exe

requirements - Windows XP or later (32-bit only)
use - 'Right click' on a font file (TrueType or OpenType)
and choose properties from the menu.

Example:

https://s26.postimg.org/9nskxef21/Mi..._Extension.gif

It looks like the license info is right in the TTF file, but without
the properties extension, may not be (normally) visible in Windows.

Hi Paul,

How the heck did you get that extension to work on Windows 10?
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Typog...roperty21.aspx

I had already tested that "Microsoft Font properties extension, version
2.30" shell extension on Windows 10, where it did absolutely nothing, even
after a reboot.

This is your result on Windows 10 on the Roadgeek font:
https://s26.postimg.org/9nskxef21/Mi..._Extension.gif

This is my result on Windows 10 on the Roadgeek font:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_1.png

How the heck did you get the Microsoft font properties extension to work?

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 11:45:33 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.

What's dictating that this should use powerpoint?

That's a good question, where if you have a better answer, I'm all ears.

You're right that it could just as well be Microsoft Word since what's
dictating the software is that there should be zero learning curve and it
should already be on everyone's system, both Mac & Windows.

But what other slide oriented software do you know of that everyone already
has on their computer and that they are comfortable using that is
compatible on Mac & Windows?

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 09:52:27 +0100, Tim Streater
wrote:

I'm going to guess that installing, embedding, and then deleting fonts on
the Mac is as easy as it is on Windows, which was as easy as copying the
font file to the "C:\Windows\Fonts\" directory as the unzipped free
font file named: "C:\Windows\Fonts\Roadgeek 2005 Series B Regular.ttf" 44KB

That seems overly complicated. I just double-click the font and answer
"Yes" to the Q about installing it. I've never deleted a font on my Mac
so can't comment on the second issue.

If you're talking about the Mac, then that's great that it's just as easy
on the Mac to install a font as it was on Windows.

Deleting the font on Windows is as easy as right click delete.
I presume it's just as easy on the Mac.

On 2017-09-10, Tim Streater wrote:

That seems overly complicated. I just double-click the font and answer
"Yes" to the Q about installing it. I've never deleted a font on my Mac
so can't comment on the second issue.

Adding and removing fonts on macOS is brain-dead easy.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2017-09-08 13:38, Chaya Eve wrote:

In summary, I ask for your advice on two questions.
Q1: How do I embed a TT font into PowerPoint 2007 for others to edit, and,
Q2: What is this "css" legal stuff and I do I comply with it in PPT 2007?

I've spot read this thread with increasing levels of boredom. Not sure
if anyone asked:

Isn't there some included PowerPoint font that is usable and not
encumbered with copyright issues?

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 10:53:02 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

Isn't there some included PowerPoint font that is usable and not
encumbered with copyright issues?

We want to teach these kids how to do the job right.

It's a good question because there are two kinds of people.
* Those who don't (and almost always can't) do a good job.
* Those who do the job right (which takes intelligence).
It takes attention to detail to do the job right.

It's a good question because there are two kinds of results.
* Results that are only useful for a single use.
* Results that are useful for all similar uses.
It takes intelligent thinking to optimize the results.

WHY does a sign-specific font exist?
* They are tested for readability under horrid lighting situations.
* The spacing & character sizes are optimized for short lines.
* The character selection (e.g., arrows) meets NHTSA standards.

However, as you noted, no sign font is perfect.

If you think choosing a font for signs is easy, then read this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/ma...12fonts-t.html

In summary, any idiot can easily do a crappy job.
It takes intelligence and attention to detail to do the job right.

We want to teach these kids how to do the job right.

On 2017-09-08 22:18, Chaya Eve wrote:
On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 17:38:51 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:
S

Troll confirmation.