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#16
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , Mark Lloyd writes: [] This stuff is one of the bigger reasons I don't use their service anymore. Also, I'd rather avoid dealing with customer service. I'd love to deal with it; however, I think it's some years since I encountered anything which was genuinely of that description, rather than just having that as its name. (In any company.) I would recommend Adobe. They fixed a problem that wasn't their fault, and couriered a solution to me on their dime. I spent about a week phoning people trying to fix that, and they came through, even though it had nothing to do with them. Paul |
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#17
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
Ron C wrote:
Ant wrote: I really miss msnews.microsoft.com's usenet and newsgroups with its MVPs. Hmm, I never spent much time on that newsgroup. The microsoft.public.* newsgroups still exist. It was the private (microsoft.private.*) newsgroups that disappeared from Usenet but those private newsgroups were carried only on Microsoft's NNTP server (they were not peered and required registration and loggin in). Are MVPs short for Microsoft Virtual Person(s) ? [Microsoft] MVP = Most Valuable Professional https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micros...e_Professional There were outsiders from Microsoft that had proven over time to help the community (in Usenet or the web-based forums). I remember one bozo (don't remember his nym) who thought he could puke out hundreds of worthless posts thinking that would earn him an MVP award not realizing that you need to get nominated and there is a review process. I think it was PC Butts who kept trying to pretend he was an MVP and even tried to register a domain that misled he was an MVP (which the MVPs reported to the registrar that got his domain registration revoked). Awhile ago, an MVP (forget who) offered to nominate me for MVP status. I politely refused. I didn't want some umbrella shadowing my content because, gee, I needed to be a polite and neutered MS helper. I'd rather be myself which can range to behavior that would not reflect well upon an MVP. No leashes on me, please. https://mvp.microsoft.com/en-us/Nomi...ominate-an-mvp (I'm unaware that anyone attempting self-nomination gets the award. "Oh, look at me, please make me special.") As I recall, MVP status must be renewed each year. Some ex-MVPs continued to claim MVP status long after they were no longer an MVP. They lied by continuing to add "MVP" to their moniker for a long expired MVP status. This is like paying for your annual car tabs but then trying to proffer them as your current tabs many years later. They keep using a title they no longer deserve. If MVP status is not renewed, the title is worthless since it is a measure of how you continue to assist the community, not how well you sit on your hands thereafter. When Microsoft abandoned Usenet, almost all MVPs moved over to Microsoft web-based forums because that's where all the boobs moved to or the only place they could figure out how to use (they knew how to use a web browser but configuring an account in an NNTP account was far beyond their eptitude). Instead of helping both places, they decided to go where the higher percentage of uber-boobs resided, similar to how malware authors attack an OS with the highest marketshare to enlarge the effect of their endeavors. |
#18
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
Paul wrote:
Ron C wrote: On 6/11/2018 5:26 PM, Ant wrote: pyotr filipivich wrote: VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter to them. Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help "function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the error codes they provide. Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is really just a small shell script. And not just at MS. I really miss msnews.microsoft.com's usenet and newsgroups with its MVPs. Hmm, I never spent much time on that newsgroup. Are MVPs short for Microsoft Virtual Person(s) ? There were people in the newsgroups, who actually used to "pursue" such an MVP title, like it was an "IT Cert". It used to "look good on your business card". Not everyone had a pecuniary interest, and gave freely of their time without expectation of anything, but a few were playing the angles. And vice-versa, there would be people in the user community "sniping" at them. Some particular MVPs had a "skill" for getting under the skin of the people asking questions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micros...e_Professional There was a little of everything. At the current time, the awards system focuses on "evangelism", rather than "helping people". This means that partners or "bloggers" stand to be rewarded as much as "question answerers". And it also means that a generation of former MVPs were swept out the door, to make room for a different kind of person entirely. While Microsoft thinks this will generate a "Guy Kawasaki" or a Bruce Tognazzini ("Tog on Design"), I don't think anyone really notable will come out of the Microsoft system. It's the era that's gone (the chance to make a difference), not the people. About all an evangelist can be today is a "sales person", a poofed-up suit with a sports car and set of golf clubs. And that reflects the maturity of the business. It's no longer "two guys in a garage building something". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_evangelist Those types of MVPs belong over in the prosyletizing newsgroups (aka the *.advocacy newsgroups full of sanctimonious noisemakers stroking their wee weenies in public). |
#19
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
T wrote:
On 06/11/2018 09:59 AM, David E. Ross wrote: On 6/11/2018 7:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote [in part]: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the response looks like it worked. In other words, Microsoft employees address problems in the forums with the same type of scripts that are used by many companies' customer support call centers. If you have a problem that is not addressed in the script, you are led very much astray. I have experienced this with Microsoft's call center, so why would anyone expect something different with the forums? Oh my goodness. That explains their useless responses on the forums. And they write you back and ask for compliments on how well the did too! Just like Facebook, you can only +1 their suggestion as a solution but never -1 them for being off-topic, irrelevant, or automatons who can't even figure out which keywords to search in the database of canned responses. Positive-only voting is worthless. |
#20
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
On 6/12/2018 12:46 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
Paul wrote: Ron C wrote: On 6/11/2018 5:26 PM, Ant wrote: pyotr filipivich wrote: VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter to them. Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help "function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the error codes they provide. Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is really just a small shell script. And not just at MS. I really miss msnews.microsoft.com's usenet and newsgroups with its MVPs. Hmm, I never spent much time on that newsgroup. Are MVPs short for Microsoft Virtual Person(s) ? There were people in the newsgroups, who actually used to "pursue" such an MVP title, like it was an "IT Cert". It used to "look good on your business card". Not everyone had a pecuniary interest, and gave freely of their time without expectation of anything, but a few were playing the angles. And vice-versa, there would be people in the user community "sniping" at them. Some particular MVPs had a "skill" for getting under the skin of the people asking questions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micros...e_Professional There was a little of everything. At the current time, the awards system focuses on "evangelism", rather than "helping people". This means that partners or "bloggers" stand to be rewarded as much as "question answerers". And it also means that a generation of former MVPs were swept out the door, to make room for a different kind of person entirely. While Microsoft thinks this will generate a "Guy Kawasaki" or a Bruce Tognazzini ("Tog on Design"), I don't think anyone really notable will come out of the Microsoft system. It's the era that's gone (the chance to make a difference), not the people. About all an evangelist can be today is a "sales person", a poofed-up suit with a sports car and set of golf clubs. And that reflects the maturity of the business. It's no longer "two guys in a garage building something". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_evangelist Those types of MVPs belong over in the prosyletizing newsgroups (aka the *.advocacy newsgroups full of sanctimonious noisemakers stroking their wee weenies in public). For what it's worth, my question was somewhat cynical and sarcastic. I lost track of the architecture way back in DOS days. The last time I had a clue about assembly language dates back to 8088. For the most part I used PCs as tools for data analysis or lab control, mostly from higher level languages. Every now and then I'd have to delve deeper to get equipment to work right. ~~ Thanks for the history lessons and perspective. -- == Later... Ron C -- |
#21
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
On 06/11/2018 09:48 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
T wrote: On 06/11/2018 09:59 AM, David E. Ross wrote: On 6/11/2018 7:55 AM, VanguardLH wrote [in part]: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific issue? It's a way to push off the customer: get them busy and maybe they accidentally fix their own problem, so they don't come and the response looks like it worked. In other words, Microsoft employees address problems in the forums with the same type of scripts that are used by many companies' customer support call centers. If you have a problem that is not addressed in the script, you are led very much astray. I have experienced this with Microsoft's call center, so why would anyone expect something different with the forums? Oh my goodness. That explains their useless responses on the forums. And they write you back and ask for compliments on how well the did too! Just like Facebook, you can only +1 their suggestion as a solution but never -1 them for being off-topic, irrelevant, or automatons who can't even figure out which keywords to search in the database of canned responses. Positive-only voting is worthless. They sent me a survey with a spot to justify my ratings. Oh Boy! I let it rip. You guys would have laughed your asses off at what I wrote. ("Enough with the stupid blow off answers. If you do not know the answer, don't write back!" and on and on and so forth.) I was mysteriously unable to login to their stuff for a week. |
#22
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
In message , VanguardLH
writes: [] As I recall, MVP status must be renewed each year. Some ex-MVPs continued to claim MVP status long after they were no longer an MVP. They lied by continuing to add "MVP" to their moniker for a long expired MVP status. This is like paying for your annual car tabs but then trying to proffer them as your current tabs many years later. They keep using a title they no longer deserve. If MVP status is not renewed, the title is worthless since it is a measure of how you continue to assist the community, not how well you sit on your hands thereafter. Actually, "MVP (2007)", or similar, might actually be _preferable_ to some readers (including me, except I'm not sure what date[s] I'd want): given the suspicion that those _currently_ qualifying (?) do so by evangelism or other practices rather than actually producing useful help, I might prefer "someone who was awarded/whatever MVP status in 200x, when it actually meant something" to "someone qualifying for MVP status as currently defined". When Microsoft abandoned Usenet, almost all MVPs moved over to Microsoft web-based forums because that's where all the boobs moved to or the only place they could figure out how to use (they knew how to use a web browser but configuring an account in an NNTP account was far beyond their eptitude). Instead of helping both places, they decided to go (I like "eptitude": I've passed it on for carding as a usage example!) where the higher percentage of uber-boobs resided, similar to how malware authors attack an OS with the highest marketshare to enlarge the effect of their endeavors. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf "When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson |
#23
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
Ron C wrote:
Hmm, I never spent much time on that newsgroup. Are MVPs short for Microsoft Virtual Person(s) ? MVP stood for Most Valuable Professional. We were *not* MS employees, and we were *not* recognized for promoting MS products. We were simply newsgroup participants who were recognized by MS for the frequency and quality of our posts. We were recognized for helping other newsgroup users. We were a disparate group, some were more likely to recommend MS products, some less. We were all trying to figure out how to use them and to transmit that knowledge to others. -- Tim Slattery tim at risingdove dot com |
#24
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 10:47:14 -0400, Tim Slattery
wrote: Ron C wrote: Hmm, I never spent much time on that newsgroup. Are MVPs short for Microsoft Virtual Person(s) ? MVP stood for Most Valuable Professional. Still does g We were *not* MS employees, And still aren't. g As a matter of fact, it's against Microsoft's rules for a Microsoft employee to be an MVP. and we were *not* recognized for promoting MS products. We were simply newsgroup participants who were recognized by MS for the frequency and quality of our posts. We were recognized for helping other newsgroup users. We were a disparate group, some were more likely to recommend MS products, some less. That's for sure. They were always some (and still are) those who thought, or at least said, that any Microsoft product under discussion was the best of its type. They were simply being dishonest, as far as I'm concerned. Some Microsoft products are the best of their type; others are far from it. We were all trying to figure out how to use them and to transmit that knowledge to others. Yes, I completely agree. I'll add to what Tim says (I was an MVP for 13 years and am now an Insider MVP. I'm active both in the Microsoft forums and here in the newsgroups. I'm sorry the Microsoft newsgroups gone; although the web-based forums are possibly better for those looking for help, as far as I'm concerned, they are much worse for those of us trying to help others, and make us considerably less effective. It was best when there were both forums and newsgroups, and a message posted to either could be read on both; that better met the needs of both groups: those asking for help and those giving help. I recommend Microsoft products that I like and recommend *against* Microsoft products I dislike. As a couple of examples, I like WordPerfect much better than Word, and I think Edge is the worst browser available. But I like Outlook and Excel better than any of the alternatives to them. I try to always make my preferences clear in the Microsoft forums. And VanguardLH said "Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific issue?" I'll also strongly second what VanguardLH said. There's an occasional exception, but the enormous majority of Microsoft reps in the forums are useless. To make matters worse, most of them are in India. Not that I have anything against Indians, but most of these "reps" speak, read, and write English very poorly. They often misunderstand the questions, and even if they understand them, answer them in an unintelligible way. And as far as I know they are not really Microsoft employees. They are contractors. Microsoft should do a much better job of selecting these contractors, and be sure that regardless of where they live, they understand English very well, and can write their answers in English clearly. And Microsoft should also be very sure they know their subject material very well. Or better yet, they could get rid of those contractors entirely. They aren't needed; the volunteers--MVPs and others--do a great job. I've told several Microsoft employees what's wrong with their contractors, but although they were sympathetic to my views, it had no effect. I've met many real Microsoft employees. There's an enormous difference between them and those forum contractors. Microsoft does a much better job of hiring real employees. And by the way, many of those real employees also come from foreign countries, including India. And to return to the subject--MVPs: I've met many of them, and many also come from foreign countries including India. Most of them speak and write excellent English and know their subject material very well. |
#25
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
In message , Ken Blake
writes: On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 10:47:14 -0400, Tim Slattery wrote: [] MVP stood for Most Valuable Professional. [] I'm concerned. Some Microsoft products are the best of their type; others are far from it. Care to mention a few more (than the two below) that you think are? I agree, though I can't think of specific examples at the moment. [] help others, and make us considerably less effective. It was best when there were both forums and newsgroups, and a message posted to either could be read on both; that better met the needs of both groups: those asking for help and those giving help. (Are you able to make such a comment "over there", or would it be "moderated" out of existence?) [] browser available. But I like Outlook and Excel better than any of the alternatives to them. I try to always make my preferences clear in the Microsoft forums. Having used it in such a situation, I agree that Outlook is very good for use in a large corporate environment - as mail client, and also for its other organisational features. (I can't comment on whether it's better than any alternative, not having used any such _in such an environment_.) As a _private_ email client, I think it's a bit complex to set up for little (I can't think of any) visible benefit, but then it's not aimed at that. I also agree Excel is very good, though I haven't tried any of the alternatives. It (or rather Office) _is_ rather expensive, and I suspect - for anyone who has not acquired it as some sort of employee discount or _possibly_ student discount - it _may_ not be worth the cost, for _many_ spreadsheets, compared to the free ones, even if it _is_ superior. And VanguardLH said "Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific issue?" I haven't used the MS forums as such, but when googling for example specific error codes or symptoms, I have seen responses on the MS website that do seem to be producing a stock reply to a question that is not the one being asked. They often involve multi-step procedures which seem - even if not intended as such - like the "tie up the questioner for a while, and at least s/he won't come back for a bit", rather like the "reboot your machine" beloved of helpdesks. I'll also strongly second what VanguardLH said. There's an occasional exception, but the enormous majority of Microsoft reps in the forums are useless. To make matters worse, most of them are in India. Not that I have anything against Indians, but most of these "reps" speak, read, and write English very poorly. They often misunderstand the questions, and even if they understand them, answer them in an unintelligible way. Very well put. And as far as I know they are not really Microsoft employees. They are contractors. Microsoft should do a much better job of selecting these contractors, and be sure that regardless of where they live, they understand English very well, and can write their answers in English clearly. And Microsoft should also be very sure they know Or at least provide a working feedback mechanism, that allows readers' feedback, if sufficiently negative, to not only result in the removal of that contractor, but also the removal of that answer. their subject material very well. Or better yet, they could get rid of those contractors entirely. They aren't needed; the volunteers--MVPs and others--do a great job. I've told several Microsoft employees what's wrong with their contractors, but although they were sympathetic to my views, it had no effect. You're probably not reaching anyone with sufficient authority (such people not usually be willing to interface). I've met many real Microsoft employees. There's an enormous difference between them and those forum contractors. Microsoft does a much better job of hiring real employees. And by the way, many of those real employees also come from foreign countries, including India. And to return to the subject--MVPs: I've met many of them, and many also come from foreign countries including India. Most of them speak and write excellent English and know their subject material very well. -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf 1974: not one member of the British jury gave the Swedish band a single point. |
#26
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 18:57:50 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
wrote: In message , Ken Blake writes: On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 10:47:14 -0400, Tim Slattery wrote: [] MVP stood for Most Valuable Professional. [] I'm concerned. Some Microsoft products are the best of their type; others are far from it. Care to mention a few more (than the two below) that you think are? I agree, though I can't think of specific examples at the moment. Streets and Trips, although it's pretty much no longer needed, since there are web sites that do the same thing even better. Expression Web, although I have created a web site in quite a while, so I can't be sure how it fares against the competition these days. The original Solitaire. That may sound like a silly example, but remember that its purpose was to teach people how to use the mouse, and it did that very well. There are probably others, but that's all that comes to mind. help others, and make us considerably less effective. It was best when there were both forums and newsgroups, and a message posted to either could be read on both; that better met the needs of both groups: those asking for help and those giving help. (Are you able to make such a comment "over there", or would it be "moderated" out of existence?) By "over there," do you mean on the forum? The only forums I go to are those for Windows questions, so I've never made a comment like that on a forum (where it would be inappropriate), but I've said it to Microsoft employees But I've said other negative things on the forums about what Microsoft does, when I felt some such a comment was appropriate. Moderation never deleted anything I've posted, as far as I know. I've always felt that I'm going to be me, and say what I think. If Microsoft doesn't like it, that's fine. They can remove my MVP status, remove me from the forum, or do whatever they want. browser available. But I like Outlook and Excel better than any of the alternatives to them. I try to always make my preferences clear in the Microsoft forums. Having used it in such a situation, I agree that Outlook is very good for use in a large corporate environment - as mail client, and also for its other organisational features. (I can't comment on whether it's better than any alternative, not having used any such _in such an environment_.) As a _private_ email client, I think it's a bit complex to set up for little (I can't think of any) visible benefit, but then it's not aimed at that. One of the things I like best about Outlook is that the single entry for a person contains e-mail address, physical address, phone number, birthday, etc. It's not necessary to have multiple records for a single person in multiple programs. I haven't tried all e-mail clients, but over the years, I've tried about half a dozen. I continue to like Outlook the best and come back to it. I don't find it too complex, but I can imagine others might. I also agree Excel is very good, though I haven't tried any of the alternatives. The only other one I've tried is Quattro Pro, and I greatly prefer Excel. It (or rather Office) _is_ rather expensive, and I suspect - for anyone who has not acquired it as some sort of employee discount or _possibly_ student discount - it _may_ not be worth the cost, for _many_ spreadsheets, compared to the free ones, even if it _is_ superior. Very true. Something like LibreOffice or OpenOffice is fine for many people. An aside: I was once at a Microsoft MVP meeting where Steve Ballmer addressed the several thousand of us, telling us that Bing was just being released, and that it was much better than Google. He asked us to use Bing instead of Google, at least for a few months, so we could see how much better it was. I did as he asked, and used Bing for 2-3 months, then went back to Google, which I thought, and still think, was much the better search engine. And VanguardLH said "Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. They are drive-by one-time automatons puking out canned responses. Look at their replies. You really think someone cogitated those responses on their own that outline some general procedure that obviously doesn't address the specific issue?" I haven't used the MS forums as such, but when googling for example specific error codes or symptoms, I have seen responses on the MS website that do seem to be producing a stock reply to a question that is not the one being asked. Yep. Sometimes because, with their poor English they didn't understand the question, and sometimes just out of ignorance. They often involve multi-step procedures which seem - even if not intended as such - like the "tie up the questioner for a while, and at least s/he won't come back for a bit", rather like the "reboot your machine" beloved of helpdesks. Yes. Or worse, the "reformat and reinstall" of help desks. That almost always works. I'll also strongly second what VanguardLH said. There's an occasional exception, but the enormous majority of Microsoft reps in the forums are useless. To make matters worse, most of them are in India. Not that I have anything against Indians, but most of these "reps" speak, read, and write English very poorly. They often misunderstand the questions, and even if they understand them, answer them in an unintelligible way. Very well put. Thanks very much. And as far as I know they are not really Microsoft employees. They are contractors. Microsoft should do a much better job of selecting these contractors, and be sure that regardless of where they live, they understand English very well, and can write their answers in English clearly. And Microsoft should also be very sure they know Or at least provide a working feedback mechanism, that allows readers' feedback, if sufficiently negative, to not only result in the removal of that contractor, but also the removal of that answer. That might be better than nothing, but as far as I'm concerned, it would be much better to avoid the problem in the first place, rather than to fix it. their subject material very well. Or better yet, they could get rid of those contractors entirely. They aren't needed; the volunteers--MVPs and others--do a great job. I've told several Microsoft employees what's wrong with their contractors, but although they were sympathetic to my views, it had no effect. You're probably not reaching anyone with sufficient authority (such people not usually be willing to interface). Yes, I know. I only spoke to those people I was able to, and asked them to pass on my comments to higher-ups. I don't know whether they did or not, but I'm sure that even if I spoke to a higher-up myself, it wouldn't matter. Microsoft is going to do it its own way. And there's a lot more wrong with the forums than just the Microsoft contractors. There's a lot that could be done to make them much better. It's just a dream of course, but if I were Microsoft CEO, there would be lots of changes, and not just to the forums. Ken I've met many real Microsoft employees. There's an enormous difference between them and those forum contractors. Microsoft does a much better job of hiring real employees. And by the way, many of those real employees also come from foreign countries, including India. And to return to the subject--MVPs: I've met many of them, and many also come from foreign countries including India. Most of them speak and write excellent English and know their subject material very well. |
#27
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
Ron C wrote:
On 6/11/2018 5:26 PM, Ant wrote: pyotr filipivich wrote: VanguardLH on Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:55:03 -0500 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: Mayayana wrote: https://betanews.com/2018/06/11/micr...upport-forums/ No help from Microsoft staff in any help forums except Win10, the very latest MS Office, etc.... But they'll still be moderating to block criticism. Have you ever been to their web-based forums to see the typical responses from so-called Microsoft reps? Worthless. They catch a few keywords, spew some irrelevant crap, like reciting some general troubleshooting procedure that does NOT address the issue, and do not return to actually work on the issue. Microsoft was in the business of selling software (now it is renting it out). Support which does not lead to income doesn't matter to them. Their web based forums are just as "helpful" as their help "function." You'd think they'd at least have a means to look up the error codes they provide. Nerts, I suspect that in a lot of cases "tech support" is really just a small shell script. And not just at MS. I really miss msnews.microsoft.com's usenet and newsgroups with its MVPs. Hmm, I never spent much time on that newsgroup. Are MVPs short for Microsoft Virtual Person(s) ? Most Valuable Person IIRC. -- Quote of the Week: "I never kill insects. If I see ants or spiders in the room, I pick them up and take them outside. Karma is everything." --Holly Valance Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly. /\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org / /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit- | |o o| | ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and URL/link. \ _ / ( ) |
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" on Tue, 12 Jun 2018
18:57:50 +0100 typed in alt.windows7.general the following: browser available. But I like Outlook and Excel better than any of the alternatives to them. I try to always make my preferences clear in the Microsoft forums. Having used it in such a situation, I agree that Outlook is very good for use in a large corporate environment - as mail client, and also for its other organisational features. (I can't comment on whether it's better than any alternative, not having used any such _in such an environment_.) As a _private_ email client, I think it's a bit complex to set up for little (I can't think of any) visible benefit, but then it's not aimed at that. I also agree Excel is very good, though I haven't tried any of the alternatives. It (or rather Office) _is_ rather expensive, and I suspect - for anyone who has not acquired it as some sort of employee discount or _possibly_ student discount - it _may_ not be worth the cost, for _many_ spreadsheets, compared to the free ones, even if it _is_ superior. I use Open Office - because a) it is not Microsoft, B) free. Yes, I did have to do a lot of fiddling with things to get my spreadsheets at from home work at school, but ... As for email - I haven't tried Outlook. May have to, one of these days. -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 08:36:49 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote: As for email - I haven't tried Outlook. May have to, one of these days. Try Pegasus first, -- Steve Hayes http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm http://khanya.wordpress.com |
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Microsoft hints at playing hardball to push Win10
Steve Hayes on Thu, 14 Jun 2018 03:38:57 +0200
typed in alt.windows7.general the following: On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 08:36:49 -0700, pyotr filipivich wrote: As for email - I haven't tried Outlook. May have to, one of these days. Try Pegasus first, I am still using Eudora. Might have to switch to Outlook for "work" related reasons. -- pyotr filipivich Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing? |
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