Atlantis Word Processor

On 2/9/14 10:14 AM, BillW50 wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...
On 2/8/14 9:02 AM, BillW50 wrote:
On 2/8/2014 8:35 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message
, BillW50 writes:

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...

snip

All very good and valid points Ken. Although here are some others things
you can chew over. And yes, I do use the software that came with the
meter and I personally find it very useful myself. And you don't have to
input any data, as a cable runs between the meter and the computer. Then
it downloads everything and imports it into the program. The problem is
some doctors doesn't understand the data in this format and confuses
them, go figure.

I have Abbott's FreeStyle Lite meter, and used to use the Pro (for lack
of a better descriptor) version of the software. I finally tired of
dealing with it, especially keeping track of what foods I ate, when,
etc. And, I never really could get into analyzing the results, so gave
up. Plus, they don't have a Mac version of the software, and I got
tired of using a separate computer of a VM just for this.

What I've learned, for me, is physical activity is the best for keeping
sugar down, assuming you do eat sensibly. So I now have a job as a
janitor, which gives me lots of physical activity.

But the body is hugely interconnected in its systems. I've had low
testosterone levels for more years than I can remember, and one day I
did some research. Found out, before the commercials hit the air, it
can affect mood, energy, blood sugar, and blood pressure. When I
learned that, at the next doctor's appointment, I told him "Let's fix this."

And that has upset the whole apple cart!!! Ever since, even though I
haven't changed any daily habits, with the physical activity, I
sometimes will have a hard time keeping the sugar UP! There will be
times when the sugar level approaches 50 and I don't know it, and it
used to be when it got to the low 70's I would start to sweat, feel
weak, and get the shakes.

What they like to see is the commonly found log sheets. Sure I suppose
you can create one using a word processor that supports tables. Although
I prefer using a spreadsheet. Sure I can print a log without any data
and fill it in by hand. Then later enter this data into the spreadsheet.
Of course, it also uses the data and creates averages, max and min, etc.
So in my case, printing empty log sheets or filled in logs from Excel
makes total sense.

It does, but that's because you do calculations on the data collected.
But, suppose you simply need a simple check in/check out sheet to make
sure every visitor that came has also left? Something for which there
is no need for further use. For the average user, who probably uses a
word processor more than a spreadsheet, I think tables is the better
solution.

Although you mentioned using the meter's software. And now that I think
about it, it acts more or less like a database vs. a spreadsheet. So I
was thinking if I could be doing this on a database instead?
Surprisingly, I think that would work well too. Even printing blank log
sheets too.

In the above, if you define database as a collection of data to be
manipulated, you're absolutely right.

That's the purpose of database software. But with the dearth of
inexpensive and easy to use database programs, plus people's ignorance
of them, there aren't many programs around.

Remember Apples HyperCard? Everyone seemingly could use it with little
problem. I didn't own a Mac back then. I don't think there's anything
quite like it anymore. :-(

On Windows, for an old fashioned nonrelational database program, I liked
Database Oasis when I was looking for a solution for church records for
my brother-in-law. Report generator limitations at the time kept me
from using it. I don't know what it's like now, other than more expensive.

On the cheap relational database end, there is Brilliant Database. I
found it hard to understand and set up. Plus, the report generator
would only pull data from one database without some fancy scripts or
something. Not suitable for the BIL, so it was eliminated.

Finally found a simple dedicated church software, but it is/was buggy,
and is no longer supported, and I can't find it on the web at all.

Apple has FileManager Pro, for both OS X and Windows. Apple bought it,
and the BIL used it many years ago. If I get back to trying to create
something for him, I'm going to check it out.

Here is something else to think about. I know lots of people and say my
accountant friends who live in Excel all day long. And they will use
Excel for tasks that you and I won't even bother with. I guess they know
it so well, it just makes sense to them.

I suspect that also factors into the lack of use of a database program.
And with MS dropping works, which had a database component, plus
vendors not including packaged software anymore, even fewer people know
what database software is, or any of its advantages.

Heck I used to use WordStar for both light duty database and spreadsheet
use too. It could only add a column of numbers for spreadsheet use.
Although for database, you could sort on any column. So you could sort
any field of data. Word also can do this and do more than just adding
columns of numbers. ;-)

And I use tables in this manner too. Usually, the data in the table
includes too few entries to make the creation of a database the
practical solution.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 24.0

"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...
On 2/9/14 10:14 AM, BillW50 wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...
On 2/8/14 9:02 AM, BillW50 wrote:
On 2/8/2014 8:35 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message
, BillW50 writes:

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...

snip

All very good and valid points Ken. Although here are some others
things you can chew over. And yes, I do use the software that came
with the meter and I personally find it very useful myself. And you
don't have to input any data, as a cable runs between the meter and
the computer. Then it downloads everything and imports it into the
program. The problem is some doctors doesn't understand the data in
this format and confuses them, go figure.

I have Abbott's FreeStyle Lite meter, and used to use the Pro (for
lack of a better descriptor) version of the software. I finally tired
of dealing with it, especially keeping track of what foods I ate,
when, etc. And, I never really could get into analyzing the results,
so gave up. Plus, they don't have a Mac version of the software, and
I got tired of using a separate computer of a VM just for this.

I have an Abbott Precision Xtra which uses PrecisionLink (I think that
is what it is called) software. And it runs on virtually any Windows
version (new and old).

What I've learned, for me, is physical activity is the best for
keeping sugar down, assuming you do eat sensibly. So I now have a job
as a janitor, which gives me lots of physical activity.

I did a lot of experimenting with insulin, food, exercise, etc. And
while experimenting, I was checking it almost every hour. I learned
quite a lot and I pretty much know ahead of time what my blood glucose
will be for the next 24 hours. And in that time, it usually will fall
between 80 to 130.

But the body is hugely interconnected in its systems. I've had low
testosterone levels for more years than I can remember, and one day I
did some research. Found out, before the commercials hit the air, it
can affect mood, energy, blood sugar, and blood pressure. When I
learned that, at the next doctor's appointment, I told him "Let's fix
this."

I don't recall ever having my testosterone levels checked. Everything
else is doing just fine though.

And that has upset the whole apple cart!!! Ever since, even though I
haven't changed any daily habits, with the physical activity, I
sometimes will have a hard time keeping the sugar UP! There will be
times when the sugar level approaches 50 and I don't know it, and it
used to be when it got to the low 70's I would start to sweat, feel
weak, and get the shakes.

Oh yes, and the symptoms can change over time. In the beginning my body
just shutdown. Meaning I would just drop and I couldn't move or talk.
Although later I could feel it like 3 minutes before it happened.
Nowadays I feel it about 30 minutes before it drops low enough to cause
a problem. So that is plenty of time to get some carbs. And yes, I could
be in the 50's today and I don't know it either. As long as it is stable
and holding then I don't know it. I only feel it if it is dropping over
time. And yes, I too felt like you did in the 70's in the beginning too.

What they like to see is the commonly found log sheets. Sure I
suppose you can create one using a word processor that supports
tables. Although I prefer using a spreadsheet. Sure I can print a log
without any data and fill it in by hand. Then later enter this data
into the spreadsheet. Of course, it also uses the data and creates
averages, max and min, etc. So in my case, printing empty log sheets
or filled in logs from Excel makes total sense.

It does, but that's because you do calculations on the data collected.
But, suppose you simply need a simple check in/check out sheet to make
sure every visitor that came has also left? Something for which there
is no need for further use. For the average user, who probably uses a
word processor more than a spreadsheet, I think tables is the better
solution.

Although you mentioned using the meter's software. And now that I
think about it, it acts more or less like a database vs. a
spreadsheet. So I was thinking if I could be doing this on a database
instead? Surprisingly, I think that would work well too. Even
printing blank log sheets too.

In the above, if you define database as a collection of data to be
manipulated, you're absolutely right.

That's the purpose of database software. But with the dearth of
inexpensive and easy to use database programs, plus people's ignorance
of them, there aren't many programs around.

Yes so true.

Remember Apples HyperCard? Everyone seemingly could use it with
little problem. I didn't own a Mac back then. I don't think there's
anything quite like it anymore. :-(

Vaguely, but I couldn't tell you anything about it.

On Windows, for an old fashioned nonrelational database program, I
liked Database Oasis when I was looking for a solution for church
records for my brother-in-law. Report generator limitations at the
time kept me from using it. I don't know what it's like now, other
than more expensive.

On the cheap relational database end, there is Brilliant Database. I
found it hard to understand and set up. Plus, the report generator
would only pull data from one database without some fancy scripts or
something. Not suitable for the BIL, so it was eliminated.

Finally found a simple dedicated church software, but it is/was buggy,
and is no longer supported, and I can't find it on the web at all.

Apple has FileManager Pro, for both OS X and Windows. Apple bought
it, and the BIL used it many years ago. If I get back to trying to
create something for him, I'm going to check it out.

The only ones I know and have used is dBase, GeoFile, Works, and Access.

Here is something else to think about. I know lots of people and say
my accountant friends who live in Excel all day long. And they will
use Excel for tasks that you and I won't even bother with. I guess
they know it so well, it just makes sense to them.

I suspect that also factors into the lack of use of a database
program. And with MS dropping works, which had a database component,
plus vendors not including packaged software anymore, even fewer
people know what database software is, or any of its advantages.

If one really wanted Works, I would guess eBay probably still has lots
of them. Don't know if there are problems running them under Windows 7
or 8. Vista and Windows 7 users are lucky as they can run the free MS
Office 2010 Starter. It came with one of my machines and I don't use it
a lot, but it doesn't seem too bad for a lite version of Office. Doesn't
have Access though.

Heck I used to use WordStar for both light duty database and
spreadsheet use too. It could only add a column of numbers for
spreadsheet use. Although for database, you could sort on any column.
So you could sort any field of data. Word also can do this and do
more than just adding columns of numbers. ;-)

And I use tables in this manner too. Usually, the data in the table
includes too few entries to make the creation of a database the
practical solution.

Yes, exactly.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows Live Mail 2009 v14
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 7 Home SP1

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 12:46:46 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Sorry, I expressed myself badly. Visual Studio 2012 is the
| only one available from MS ATM, but it probably compiles under the
| previous versions.
| Update: I found the 2008, 2010 and 2012 editions on MS
| servers. All are 600-900 Mb isos. Wondering if they are worth my while
| installing.

VS or VC? Express or regular? I mostly use VB6
and only installed VC Express for little things like
editing Sumatra. I don't remember exactly what
the licensing terms are. I don't think there are
any notable restrictions on VC Express, though it's
possible that there's a non-commercial clause.

All 3 are Express, and apparently give you a choice of
components. So I could install just the C++ compiler. But it's a lot
of software for just compiling Sumatra ..... All of them are free,
2010 and 2012 require a Microsoft account to obtain a license

If you work in C++ and want an IDE/compiler
then VC Express seems to be a good bargain.
And a lot of OSS source code comes as one
or more VC project version. Unfortunately, Microsoft
keeps changing things around, so it can be a pain
to convert a project from one version to another.

| I fired up Ollydbg and removed the restriction on copying text
| in about 3 minutes. It's a one-byte edit. Search for:
| "Copying text was denied (copying as image only)"
| the jump above that, make it unconditional.
| I'm using v2.5.8*** portable.
|

That's impressive. I'll have to look into Ollydbg.
The edit I had made in the source code was to just
skip calling the functions to check the flags and
assign "no restrictions" values to those variables.

http://www.ollydbg.de/version2.html

Load SumatraPDF.exe

right click code window ---- search for ---- all referenced strings

CTRL-F "denied" CTRL-L till you find "Copying text was denied"
F2 puts a breakpoint on the line
right click that and "follow in disassembler"

A tutorial will help

This will wrap badly:

CPU Disasm
Address Hex dump Command Comments
004272C5 |. 8B08 MOV ECX,DWORD PTR DS:[EAX]
004272C7 |. 8B11 MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DS:[ECX]
004272C9 |. 8B42 50 MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DS:[EDX+50]
004272CC |. FFD0 CALL EAX ---- checks if protected
004272CE |. 84C0 TEST AL,AL ----- make it 1
004272D0 |. 75 1F JNZ SHORT 004272F1 ------or just
unconditional jump
004272D2 |. 6A 01 PUSH 1
004272D4 |. 6A 00 PUSH 0
004272D6 |. 6A 01 PUSH 1
004272D8 |. B8 6C258400 MOV EAX,OFFSET 0084256C ; ASCII
"Copying text was denied (copying as image only)"
004272DD |. E8 9ED40100 CALL 00444780




| I use 17 ESR. Yep, I know it's backdoored, but so are the more
| recent ones.

I don't understand. Could you explain that?
Is 17 ESR a version of Firefox? Firefox is
backdoored?

Yes, it's a version for businesses, and only has security
updates, no feature updates. Which makes bug control easier.

http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.o...efox/releases/

Search for ESR. Latest is v24x

Google "tor backdoor firefox esr". Mozilla built a backdoor
into Firefox ESR, which gave the FBI the urls typed into the address
line. So they could figure out who you were. It was fairly quickly
white-hatted, but speaks badly of Mozilla.
Also shows the NSA is more about businesses than terrorism. I
doubt if terrorists or even pedophiles use ESR versions.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

| I don't understand. Could you explain that?
| Is 17 ESR a version of Firefox? Firefox is
| backdoored?
|
| Yes, it's a version for businesses, and only has security
| updates, no feature updates. Which makes bug control easier.
|
| http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.o...efox/releases/
|
| Search for ESR. Latest is v24x

Thanks. I'll give it a try. I'd never heard of ESR before.

On 2/9/14 1:46 PM, BillW50 wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...
On 2/9/14 10:14 AM, BillW50 wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...
On 2/8/14 9:02 AM, BillW50 wrote:
On 2/8/2014 8:35 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message
, BillW50 writes:

"VanguardLH" wrote in message
...

snip

All very good and valid points Ken. Although here are some others
things you can chew over. And yes, I do use the software that came
with the meter and I personally find it very useful myself. And you
don't have to input any data, as a cable runs between the meter and
the computer. Then it downloads everything and imports it into the
program. The problem is some doctors doesn't understand the data in
this format and confuses them, go figure.

I have Abbott's FreeStyle Lite meter, and used to use the Pro (for
lack of a better descriptor) version of the software. I finally tired
of dealing with it, especially keeping track of what foods I ate,
when, etc. And, I never really could get into analyzing the results,
so gave up. Plus, they don't have a Mac version of the software, and
I got tired of using a separate computer of a VM just for this.

I have an Abbott Precision Xtra which uses PrecisionLink (I think that
is what it is called) software. And it runs on virtually any Windows
version (new and old).

That may be what I have too. There are two versions for my meter, one
that talks to your doctor and/or hospital, and one that doesn't.

What I've learned, for me, is physical activity is the best for
keeping sugar down, assuming you do eat sensibly. So I now have a job
as a janitor, which gives me lots of physical activity.

I did a lot of experimenting with insulin, food, exercise, etc. And
while experimenting, I was checking it almost every hour. I learned
quite a lot and I pretty much know ahead of time what my blood glucose
will be for the next 24 hours. And in that time, it usually will fall
between 80 to 130.

But the body is hugely interconnected in its systems. I've had low
testosterone levels for more years than I can remember, and one day I
did some research. Found out, before the commercials hit the air, it
can affect mood, energy, blood sugar, and blood pressure. When I
learned that, at the next doctor's appointment, I told him "Let's fix
this."

I don't recall ever having my testosterone levels checked. Everything
else is doing just fine though.

Get it checked, if for no other reason than to know there's no issue.
Then, if you're happy with how you feel, leave well enough alone.

And that has upset the whole apple cart!!! Ever since, even though I
haven't changed any daily habits, with the physical activity, I
sometimes will have a hard time keeping the sugar UP! There will be
times when the sugar level approaches 50 and I don't know it, and it
used to be when it got to the low 70's I would start to sweat, feel
weak, and get the shakes.

Oh yes, and the symptoms can change over time. In the beginning my body
just shutdown. Meaning I would just drop and I couldn't move or talk.
Although later I could feel it like 3 minutes before it happened.
Nowadays I feel it about 30 minutes before it drops low enough to cause
a problem. So that is plenty of time to get some carbs. And yes, I could
be in the 50's today and I don't know it either. As long as it is stable
and holding then I don't know it. I only feel it if it is dropping over
time. And yes, I too felt like you did in the 70's in the beginning too.

I never reacted that badly. But before the testosterone prescription,
I'd get the sweats and such in the 70's area. Now, it's got to get
around 20 points lower.

snip

Remember Apples HyperCard? Everyone seemingly could use it with
little problem. I didn't own a Mac back then. I don't think there's
anything quite like it anymore. :-(

Vaguely, but I couldn't tell you anything about it.

Try this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMFscTOazS0 You won't
get far into it before you realize it's a relational database, but with
an interface that made sense to the ordinary person. You didn't have to
be a semi-programmer to use it, like using dBase.

Back then, before organizations got computerized, a fireman in an
Anchorage, AK station started tracking the SCBA requirement for his
station. And it got passed around to other stations. I may still have
that HyperCard stack on a floppy here.

The Atari platform had a couple of developers who were "cloning"
HyperCard, I think it was called HyperLink but I can't find out anything
at the moment. I had a copy of the software, but got rid of it long
ago. Sadly, they never finished the project. From the website, I
wonder if Filemanager Pro works similar.

This is interesting... http://atarimagazines.com/startv2n3/hypercard.html

On Windows, for an old fashioned nonrelational database program, I
liked Database Oasis when I was looking for a solution for church
records for my brother-in-law. Report generator limitations at the
time kept me from using it. I don't know what it's like now, other
than more expensive.

On the cheap relational database end, there is Brilliant Database. I
found it hard to understand and set up. Plus, the report generator
would only pull data from one database without some fancy scripts or
something. Not suitable for the BIL, so it was eliminated.

Finally found a simple dedicated church software, but it is/was buggy,
and is no longer supported, and I can't find it on the web at all.

Apple has FileManager Pro, for both OS X and Windows. Apple bought
it, and the BIL used it many years ago. If I get back to trying to
create something for him, I'm going to check it out.

The only ones I know and have used is dBase, GeoFile, Works, and Access.

I've got dBase and an Atari clone for it. Works somewhere, but an old
copy. And Access from various versions of Office. Geofile... Any
chance that ran under Geoworks from Berkeley Software? I've got a copy
of Geoworks I want to try to install in a VM someday. Same for OS/2 Warp 4.

Here is something else to think about. I know lots of people and say
my accountant friends who live in Excel all day long. And they will
use Excel for tasks that you and I won't even bother with. I guess
they know it so well, it just makes sense to them.

I suspect that also factors into the lack of use of a database
program. And with MS dropping works, which had a database component,
plus vendors not including packaged software anymore, even fewer
people know what database software is, or any of its advantages.

If one really wanted Works, I would guess eBay probably still has lots
of them. Don't know if there are problems running them under Windows 7
or 8. Vista and Windows 7 users are lucky as they can run the free MS
Office 2010 Starter. It came with one of my machines and I don't use it
a lot, but it doesn't seem too bad for a lite version of Office. Doesn't
have Access though.

Heck I used to use WordStar for both light duty database and
spreadsheet use too. It could only add a column of numbers for
spreadsheet use. Although for database, you could sort on any column.
So you could sort any field of data. Word also can do this and do
more than just adding columns of numbers. ;-)

And I use tables in this manner too. Usually, the data in the table
includes too few entries to make the creation of a database the
practical solution.

Yes, exactly.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 24.0

On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 18:31:57 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| I don't understand. Could you explain that?
| Is 17 ESR a version of Firefox? Firefox is
| backdoored?
|
| Yes, it's a version for businesses, and only has security
| updates, no feature updates. Which makes bug control easier.
|
| http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.o...efox/releases/
|
| Search for ESR. Latest is v24x

Thanks. I'll give it a try. I'd never heard of ESR before.

And now for something completely different

SumatraPDF, PORTABLE version, tried 3 versions 2.4, all have this
string:

8B088B118B4250FFD084C075

HxD it to

8B088B118B4250FFD084C0EB

75 = conditional jump
EB = unconditional jump

Text copy enabled.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...
On 2/9/14 1:46 PM, BillW50 wrote:
The only ones I know and have used is dBase, GeoFile, Works, and
Access.

I've got dBase and an Atari clone for it. Works somewhere, but an old
copy. And Access from various versions of Office. Geofile... Any
chance that ran under Geoworks from Berkeley Software? I've got a
copy of Geoworks I want to try to install in a VM someday. Same for
OS/2 Warp 4.

Yes the very same GeoFile. I had the Commodore 64/128 versions and I
bought everything they put out (about $1000 worth of software in total).
If these are the ones you are talking about, they are now available for
free and runs under a Commodore Emulator.

Later they produced two versions for the PC (v1 and v2). I never had the
first one, but the second one was called GEOS Ensemble v2. That one I
used a lot. Nor was it expensive like the Commodore ones and it included
all of the applications in the package (for Commodore, you purchased
them all separately). There was a later one called NewDeal, but it
seemed more like a repackaged v2 to me.

It should run on modern computers that can run DOS software. It was just
a shell on top of DOS, like Windows used to do. There was a few changes
to ini files I think for faster computers. It also might have to be on a
FAT16/32 partition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEOS_(...erating_system)

Oh the database for GEOS on the Commodores was called GeoFile, on the PC
it was renamed as GeoDex.

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows Live Mail 2009 v14
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 7 Home SP1

| SumatraPDF, PORTABLE version, tried 3 versions 2.4, all have this
| string:
|
| 8B088B118B4250FFD084C075
|
| HxD it to
|
| 8B088B118B4250FFD084C0EB
|
| 75 = conditional jump
| EB = unconditional jump
|
| Text copy enabled.

Thanks. I can guess what you're doing, but I
don't really understand it because I don't have
any real experience with assembly language. I'll
have to stick with the source code.

Shadow wrote:
On Sun, 9 Feb 2014 18:31:57 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| I don't understand. Could you explain that?
| Is 17 ESR a version of Firefox? Firefox is
| backdoored?
|
| Yes, it's a version for businesses, and only has security
| updates, no feature updates. Which makes bug control easier.
|
| http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.o...efox/releases/
|
| Search for ESR. Latest is v24x

Thanks. I'll give it a try. I'd never heard of ESR before.

And now for something completely different

SumatraPDF, PORTABLE version, tried 3 versions 2.4, all have this
string:

8B088B118B4250FFD084C075

HxD it to

8B088B118B4250FFD084C0EB

75 = conditional jump
EB = unconditional jump

Text copy enabled.
[]'s

That's not always going to help you, thanks to
the work of this dude. The guy noticed you
could have one thing showing on the screen
(readable text), and when the copy feature
is used, present scrambled text to the copy buffer.

http://spivey.oriel.ox.ac.uk/corner/Obfuscated_PDF

I've seen and worked on such a document, and it
took about two weeks of work, with some scripts,
to undo the scrambling. It means there is at
least one word processing tool out there, that
can produce a document, where you're wasting
your time removing the copy prevention flag.
Because the material to be copied, is obfuscated.

I would agree with Mayayana, that OCR is your
"last best hope" when stuff like this happens.
It's slightly more practical, than what I was
doing.

Paul

On 2/10/14 6:36 AM, BillW50 wrote:
"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...
On 2/9/14 1:46 PM, BillW50 wrote:
The only ones I know and have used is dBase, GeoFile, Works, and
Access.

I've got dBase and an Atari clone for it. Works somewhere, but an old
copy. And Access from various versions of Office. Geofile... Any
chance that ran under Geoworks from Berkeley Software? I've got a
copy of Geoworks I want to try to install in a VM someday. Same for
OS/2 Warp 4.

Yes the very same GeoFile. I had the Commodore 64/128 versions and I
bought everything they put out (about $1000 worth of software in total).
If these are the ones you are talking about, they are now available for
free and runs under a Commodore Emulator.

I never owned or used a Commodore product, although we got a Vic 20 for
my mother. I've forgotten how that came about.

Later they produced two versions for the PC (v1 and v2). I never had the
first one, but the second one was called GEOS Ensemble v2. That one I
used a lot. Nor was it expensive like the Commodore ones and it included
all of the applications in the package (for Commodore, you purchased
them all separately). There was a later one called NewDeal, but it
seemed more like a repackaged v2 to me.

What I have is probably v1, as it's called Geoworks Pro. A cursory look
finds no mention of v1 or 2 on the Geoworks components.

It should run on modern computers that can run DOS software. It was just
a shell on top of DOS, like Windows used to do. There was a few changes
to ini files I think for faster computers. It also might have to be on a
FAT16/32 partition.

I would like to install it in VM program here, just haven't gotten to
it. HP had a competing desktop environment called HP New Wave. I'd
like to find a copy of that, as well as DesqView. I do have a copy of
Norton Desktop, and actually installed it at work, on a government
computer. Really liked it over Windows for Workgroups.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEOS_(...erating_system)

Oh the database for GEOS on the Commodores was called GeoFile, on the PC
it was renamed as GeoDex.



--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.5
Firefox 24.0
Thunderbird 24.0

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 10:36:28 -0500, Paul wrote:

That's not always going to help you, thanks to
the work of this dude. The guy noticed you
could have one thing showing on the screen
(readable text), and when the copy feature
is used, present scrambled text to the copy buffer.

http://spivey.oriel.ox.ac.uk/corner/Obfuscated_PDF

I've seen and worked on such a document, and it
took about two weeks of work, with some scripts,
to undo the scrambling. It means there is at
least one word processing tool out there, that
can produce a document, where you're wasting
your time removing the copy prevention flag.
Because the material to be copied, is obfuscated.

I would agree with Mayayana, that OCR is your
"last best hope" when stuff like this happens.
It's slightly more practical, than what I was
doing.

Yep. Though I had to search through a collection of pdfs
before I came across one with simple "text copy disallowed". If I ever
do come across one obfuscated by the idiot, I'll just print it. Unless
that is obfuscated too.
I've never understood the reason behind disallowing text
copying. Everyone wants you to quote their work. The whole point of
PDFs is not allowing people to change the contents of the original.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

"Ken Springer" wrote in message
...
On 2/10/14 6:36 AM, BillW50 wrote:
[...]
I never owned or used a Commodore product, although we got a Vic 20
for my mother. I've forgotten how that came about.

I really enjoyed the VIC-20, C64, SX64, C128, and the C128D in the 80's
and early 90's. I used them more than my PCs and CP/M machines. Although
the 128's also ran CP/M too.

{...}
What I have is probably v1, as it's called Geoworks Pro. A cursory
look finds no mention of v1 or 2 on the Geoworks components.

Yes Geoworks Pro didn't mention the version like the later ones.

It should run on modern computers that can run DOS software. It was
just a shell on top of DOS, like Windows used to do. There was a few
changes to ini files I think for faster computers. It also might have
to be on a FAT16/32 partition.

I would like to install it in VM program here, just haven't gotten to
it. HP had a competing desktop environment called HP New Wave. I'd
like to find a copy of that, as well as DesqView. I do have a copy of
Norton Desktop, and actually installed it at work, on a government
computer. Really liked it over Windows for Workgroups.

Yes I really enjoyed using them. I think they would have gone much
further if they went to an 32 bit OS and used protected mode. Heck if
they did, we might be all running GEOS today. ;-)

--
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Windows Live Mail 2009 v14
Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 7 Home SP1

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 16:48:46 -0200, Shadow wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 10:36:28 -0500, Paul wrote:

That's not always going to help you, thanks to
the work of this dude. The guy noticed you
could have one thing showing on the screen
(readable text), and when the copy feature
is used, present scrambled text to the copy buffer.

http://spivey.oriel.ox.ac.uk/corner/Obfuscated_PDF

I've seen and worked on such a document, and it
took about two weeks of work, with some scripts,
to undo the scrambling. It means there is at
least one word processing tool out there, that
can produce a document, where you're wasting
your time removing the copy prevention flag.
Because the material to be copied, is obfuscated.

I would agree with Mayayana, that OCR is your
"last best hope" when stuff like this happens.
It's slightly more practical, than what I was
doing.

Yep. Though I had to search through a collection of pdfs
before I came across one with simple "text copy disallowed". If I ever
do come across one obfuscated by the idiot, I'll just print it. Unless
that is obfuscated too.

What about printing to PDF? The target PDF doesn't inherit the restrictions
of its parent, does it?

Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 16:48:46 -0200, Shadow wrote:

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 10:36:28 -0500, Paul wrote:

That's not always going to help you, thanks to
the work of this dude. The guy noticed you
could have one thing showing on the screen
(readable text), and when the copy feature
is used, present scrambled text to the copy buffer.

http://spivey.oriel.ox.ac.uk/corner/Obfuscated_PDF

I've seen and worked on such a document, and it
took about two weeks of work, with some scripts,
to undo the scrambling. It means there is at
least one word processing tool out there, that
can produce a document, where you're wasting
your time removing the copy prevention flag.
Because the material to be copied, is obfuscated.

I would agree with Mayayana, that OCR is your
"last best hope" when stuff like this happens.
It's slightly more practical, than what I was
doing.
Yep. Though I had to search through a collection of pdfs
before I came across one with simple "text copy disallowed". If I ever
do come across one obfuscated by the idiot, I'll just print it. Unless
that is obfuscated too.

What about printing to PDF? The target PDF doesn't inherit the restrictions
of its parent, does it?


I think that option is normally disabled.

The closest I could get, was installing a PostScript print
driver, do a print to file, then re-distill. And even that
doesn't always work, as things can be generated on output
which don't distill well.

And if you check for modern "PostScript" print drivers, they
generate bitmap PostScript and not regular PostScript,
to prevent you from "doing your laundry" with the driver :-)
If you distill such a PostScript output file, it's like a
bunch of pictures. Doing a text search no longer works.
And the output is only fit for OCR processing, if that.

They think of just about everything :-)

It's a matter of "hack it, if you can".

I've been dragging the same old PostScript driver for Windows
around for years, for this very purpose. Doing my laundry. WinXP
is the last place I could make it work.

Paul

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 19:44:05 -0600, Char Jackson
wrote:

Yep. Though I had to search through a collection of pdfs
before I came across one with simple "text copy disallowed". If I ever
do come across one obfuscated by the idiot, I'll just print it. Unless
that is obfuscated too.

What about printing to PDF? The target PDF doesn't inherit the restrictions
of its parent, does it?

Tried that, it prints to an image, 5 times the size of the
original PDF. Flipping the no-copy-text jump does not help.

For all you windows lovers, here is the 2Mb .pdf I tested on:

http://principledtechnologies.com/Mi...affic_0613.pdf

[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012