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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correct name



 
 
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  #16  
Old June 10th 13, 11:17 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul
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Posts: 18,275
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , philo writes:
[]
I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps.
Once I see that I scrap out the machine.


As opposed to scrapping it in?


Getting it "out the door", is the right direction :-)

Who wants to spend hours soldering caps ? I've done it,
and even with a $3000 rework station, it still takes
a couple hours. It's not really all that cost
effective, unless the product has sentimental value
to you.

Caps are easy to remove and replace, if they use
big holes in the motherboard. If the legs of the
caps are jammed into the holes (interference fit),
then the job is messy. And you don't want to
tear them out with brute force, because you
can rip out the plated holes. (Been there, done that.)

Paul
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  #17  
Old June 10th 13, 11:25 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
philo [_3_]
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Posts: 984
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname

On 06/10/2013 05:17 PM, Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , philo
writes:
[]
I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps.
Once I see that I scrap out the machine.


As opposed to scrapping it in?


Getting it "out the door", is the right direction :-)

Who wants to spend hours soldering caps ? I've done it,
and even with a $3000 rework station, it still takes
a couple hours. It's not really all that cost
effective, unless the product has sentimental value
to you.

Caps are easy to remove and replace, if they use
big holes in the motherboard. If the legs of the
caps are jammed into the holes (interference fit),
then the job is messy. And you don't want to
tear them out with brute force, because you
can rip out the plated holes. (Been there, done that.)

Paul




I sometimes get in 20 machines at a time and no way is it worth it to
replace caps on an obsolete machine. Since I get the machines free, I
don't want to spend money and time trying to repair mobos. Last batch I
got in, I ended up with enough parts to get about half of them going.

I only gave it a try once, and the mobo still did not work right as
evidently it had other bad caps that just hadn't visibly leaked yet.

I did pick up a few spare Optiplex boards on eBay that cost less than a
set of caps...just for the heck of it.
  #18  
Old June 11th 13, 12:21 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname

philo wrote:
On 06/10/2013 05:17 PM, Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , philo
writes:
[]
I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps.
Once I see that I scrap out the machine.

As opposed to scrapping it in?


Getting it "out the door", is the right direction :-)

Who wants to spend hours soldering caps ? I've done it,
and even with a $3000 rework station, it still takes
a couple hours. It's not really all that cost
effective, unless the product has sentimental value
to you.

Caps are easy to remove and replace, if they use
big holes in the motherboard. If the legs of the
caps are jammed into the holes (interference fit),
then the job is messy. And you don't want to
tear them out with brute force, because you
can rip out the plated holes. (Been there, done that.)

Paul




I sometimes get in 20 machines at a time and no way is it worth it to
replace caps on an obsolete machine. Since I get the machines free, I
don't want to spend money and time trying to repair mobos. Last batch I
got in, I ended up with enough parts to get about half of them going.

I only gave it a try once, and the mobo still did not work right as
evidently it had other bad caps that just hadn't visibly leaked yet.

I did pick up a few spare Optiplex boards on eBay that cost less than a
set of caps...just for the heck of it.


If the Vcore has seven caps on output and five caps on input
(parallel arrays), you replace every cap in the array. If one
leaks in the array, you replace all of them. And its for
the reason you state - the others are going bad as well,
and might not be visibly damaged yet.

On a seven cap array, if one fails, the other six
carry more ripple current than they used to. This tends
to accelerate failure of the others, even if they
don't leak while doing so. That helps the failures to
correlate.

Some cap failures can be near to being perfectly harmless.
If a bulk bypass cap fails (chemical breakdown, not stress),
you might not miss it in operation. These would be caps
near the PCI slots. The liquid electrolyte though, could
corrode other things.

Some day, you'll be getting used gear with 100% Polymer caps,
and this nightmare will be over :-)

Paul
  #19  
Old June 11th 13, 02:59 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
philo [_3_]
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Posts: 984
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname

On 06/10/2013 04:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , philo writes:
[]
I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps.
Once I see that I scrap out the machine.


As opposed to scrapping it in?





  #20  
Old June 11th 13, 03:01 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
philo [_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 984
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname

On 06/10/2013 06:21 PM, Paul wrote:
X

snipped for brevity


Some cap failures can be near to being perfectly harmless.
If a bulk bypass cap fails (chemical breakdown, not stress),
you might not miss it in operation. These would be caps
near the PCI slots. The liquid electrolyte though, could
corrode other things.

Some day, you'll be getting used gear with 100% Polymer caps,
and this nightmare will be over :-)

Paul




I guess what amazes me is that the machines I am getting with bad caps
are of varying ages spanning quite a few years.

OTOH: Why should I be surprised?
  #21  
Old June 11th 13, 03:50 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname

philo wrote:

I guess what amazes me is that the machines I am getting with bad caps
are of varying ages spanning quite a few years.

OTOH: Why should I be surprised?


That's really the shocking and sad part. How long
this went on. It went on for years. Multiple Chinese
manufacturers were using the bogus electrolyte. What
I can't figure out, is what production manager would
get a bonus, for saving a few cents on caps, only to
turn around and have a huge rate of warranty returns.
I can't figure an up-side, to using the cheap bogus caps.
Sooner or later, you'll be paying for them.

Paul
  #22  
Old June 11th 13, 04:53 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Bill in Co
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Posts: 1,927
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correct name

Paul wrote:
philo wrote:

I guess what amazes me is that the machines I am getting with bad caps
are of varying ages spanning quite a few years.

OTOH: Why should I be surprised?


That's really the shocking and sad part. How long
this went on. It went on for years. Multiple Chinese
manufacturers were using the bogus electrolyte. What
I can't figure out, is what production manager would
get a bonus, for saving a few cents on caps, only to
turn around and have a huge rate of warranty returns.


That's assuming 1) there actually were lots of warranty returns and 2) that
the production manager stayed there in that position (and didn't move up or
out onto a new job). Remember corporations (and government) only think
short term. Long term is an "advanced" concept.

I can't figure an up-side, to using the cheap bogus caps.
Sooner or later, you'll be paying for them.

Paul


But in the end, do they care? (Not unless it actually did cut into their
bottom line, which in this case would necessitate tons of returns)


  #23  
Old June 11th 13, 05:20 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname

Bill in Co wrote:
Paul wrote:
philo wrote:

I guess what amazes me is that the machines I am getting with bad caps
are of varying ages spanning quite a few years.

OTOH: Why should I be surprised?

That's really the shocking and sad part. How long
this went on. It went on for years. Multiple Chinese
manufacturers were using the bogus electrolyte. What
I can't figure out, is what production manager would
get a bonus, for saving a few cents on caps, only to
turn around and have a huge rate of warranty returns.


That's assuming 1) there actually were lots of warranty returns and 2) that
the production manager stayed there in that position (and didn't move up or
out onto a new job). Remember corporations (and government) only think
short term. Long term is an "advanced" concept.

I can't figure an up-side, to using the cheap bogus caps.
Sooner or later, you'll be paying for them.

Paul


But in the end, do they care? (Not unless it actually did cut into their
bottom line, which in this case would necessitate tons of returns)


Wow. This article just gets longer and longer.
There is a section for "after 2007" now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

And I couldn't find mention of any "class action lawsuits" in that
article. The Abit motherboard company lost one of those. And there
was at least one other suit.

Paul

  #24  
Old June 11th 13, 07:20 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,291
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correct name

In message , philo*
writes:
On 06/10/2013 04:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , philo writes:
[]
I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps.
Once I see that I scrap out the machine.


As opposed to scrapping it in?






Glad someone else appreciated that! (I'd just say "scrap the machine" -
no in _or_ out.)

But the articles about the caps were interesting!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Build a better mousetrap and along will come better mice.
  #25  
Old June 11th 13, 02:13 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
kev833
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Posts: 9
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correct name

[snip]

Installed the A11 version of the BIOS. But it didn't change anything. The Sony CDROM drive was still listed as "unknown". Some combination of Windows and the controller is jacked up. I have another old CDROM drive: Samsung SC-140b. It works in the PC but only in PIO mode. Windows initially detected it and set the primary controller mode Multi-Word DMA Mode 2. But once I put in a CD the PC locked up. I'm glad I have an external USB DVD drive. I give up on work with this old technology. Thank you everyone for your comments. Out!
  #26  
Old June 11th 13, 02:18 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
philo [_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 984
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname

On 06/11/2013 01:20 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , philo writes:
On 06/10/2013 04:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , philo
writes:
[]
I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps.
Once I see that I scrap out the machine.

As opposed to scrapping it in?






Glad someone else appreciated that! (I'd just say "scrap the machine" -
no in _or_ out.)

But the articles about the caps were interesting!



Yes. I got your sense of humor because I have a similar one. (My wife
does not know what to do with me.)

BTW: I bet you will like this one:

This morning I repaired an IBM Thinkpad that had the "fan failure"
message .

I took the thing apart and luckily the fan was still good, it was just
clogged with debris.

It had a quality inspection sticker stuck in it!


Probably the "best" problem I've ever come across yet.
  #27  
Old June 11th 13, 02:30 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname

kev833 wrote:
[snip]

Installed the A11 version of the BIOS. But it didn't change anything. The Sony CDROM drive was still listed as "unknown". Some combination of Windows and the controller is jacked up. I have another old CDROM drive: Samsung SC-140b. It works in the PC but only in PIO mode. Windows initially detected it and set the primary controller mode Multi-Word DMA Mode 2. But once I put in a CD the PC locked up. I'm glad I have an external USB DVD drive. I give up on work with this old technology. Thank you everyone for your comments. Out!


I think it's time to change cables. Seriously.

You want an 80 wire UDMA cable, not the
40 wire cable you're using at present.

The 80 wire uses a finer wire, as shown on the left here.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%26_80_pin.jpg

It sounds like you have a signal integrity problem. The
signals look bad on those cables at the best of times.
It is not "electrical engineerings finest hour". The
SATA cable, by comparison, is an example of excellence.
IDE cables, not so much. The thing they got right on the
IDE cable, was including a reset signal, something the
SATA cable could have used.

And don't get carried away on length either.
This is long enough. Standard length. 18"

http://www.startech.com/Cables/Drive...DE-Cable~IDE66

They also make stuff like this, but I cannot
imagine what they were thinking. This is twice as long
and is only going to result in grief (CRC errors).
An 18" cable is what you want, especially when
your current setup appears to not work properly.

http://www.startech.com/Cables/Drive...Cable~IDE66_36

Paul
  #28  
Old June 17th 13, 05:55 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
kev833
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correct name

After all the back and forth with this issue, it came down someone the IT department doing something strange to the Windows XP Pro SP3 installation on the machine. The PC was purshased as is from an company auction. So who knows what happened. maybe it could also be a corrupted reqistery. Bottom-line, no CD-RW/DVD-ROM would work in this PC.

My solution was to place my spare 160GB ATA/IDE hard drive in the PC as the master device and use the Sony CD-RW/DVD-ROM as the slave device and installed Windows XP Home SP3. Once that was completed I checked the properties of the Primary IDE Channel which indicated UDMA Mode 5 for "device 0" and UDMA Mode 2 for "device 1". So this was not a hardward or BIOS issue.




On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 9:30:21 AM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
kev833 wrote: [snip] Installed the A11 version of the BIOS. But it didn't change anything. The Sony CDROM drive was still listed as "unknown". Some combination of Windows and the controller is jacked up. I have another old CDROM drive: Samsung SC-140b. It works in the PC but only in PIO mode.. Windows initially detected it and set the primary controller mode Multi-Word DMA Mode 2. But once I put in a CD the PC locked up. I'm glad I have an external USB DVD drive. I give up on work with this old technology. Thank you everyone for your comments. Out! I think it's time to change cables. Seriously. You want an 80 wire UDMA cable, not the 40 wire cable you're using at present. The 80 wire uses a finer wire, as shown on the left here. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%26_80_pin.jpg It sounds like you have a signal integrity problem. The signals look bad on those cables at the best of times. It is not "electrical engineerings finest hour". The SATA cable, by comparison, is an example of excellence. IDE cables, not so much. The thing they got right on the IDE cable, was including a reset signal, something the SATA cable could have used. And don't get carried away on length either. This is long enough. Standard length. 18" http://www.startech.com/Cables/Drive...DE-Cable~IDE66 They also make stuff like this, but I cannot imagine what they were thinking. This is twice as long and is only going to result in grief (CRC errors). An 18" cable is what you want, especially when your current setup appears to not work properly. http://www.startech.com/Cables/Drive...Cable~IDE66_36 Paul


  #29  
Old June 17th 13, 10:50 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
philo [_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 984
Default CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname

On 06/17/2013 11:55 AM, kev833 wrote:
After all the back and forth with this issue, it came down someone the IT department doing something strange to the Windows XP Pro SP3 installation on the machine. The PC was purshased as is from an company auction. So who knows what happened. maybe it could also be a corrupted reqistery. Bottom-line, no CD-RW/DVD-ROM would work in this PC.

My solution was to place my spare 160GB ATA/IDE hard drive in the PC as the master device and use the Sony CD-RW/DVD-ROM as the slave device and installed Windows XP Home SP3. Once that was completed I checked the properties of the Primary IDE Channel which indicated UDMA Mode 5 for "device 0" and UDMA Mode 2 for "device 1". So this was not a hardward or BIOS issue.






You changed your story.

Initially you said the device was not properly IDed in the BIOS but
functioned OK in Windows.

 




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