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#16
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , philo writes: [] I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps. Once I see that I scrap out the machine. As opposed to scrapping it in? Getting it "out the door", is the right direction :-) Who wants to spend hours soldering caps ? I've done it, and even with a $3000 rework station, it still takes a couple hours. It's not really all that cost effective, unless the product has sentimental value to you. Caps are easy to remove and replace, if they use big holes in the motherboard. If the legs of the caps are jammed into the holes (interference fit), then the job is messy. And you don't want to tear them out with brute force, because you can rip out the plated holes. (Been there, done that.) Paul |
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#17
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname
On 06/10/2013 05:17 PM, Paul wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , philo writes: [] I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps. Once I see that I scrap out the machine. As opposed to scrapping it in? Getting it "out the door", is the right direction :-) Who wants to spend hours soldering caps ? I've done it, and even with a $3000 rework station, it still takes a couple hours. It's not really all that cost effective, unless the product has sentimental value to you. Caps are easy to remove and replace, if they use big holes in the motherboard. If the legs of the caps are jammed into the holes (interference fit), then the job is messy. And you don't want to tear them out with brute force, because you can rip out the plated holes. (Been there, done that.) Paul I sometimes get in 20 machines at a time and no way is it worth it to replace caps on an obsolete machine. Since I get the machines free, I don't want to spend money and time trying to repair mobos. Last batch I got in, I ended up with enough parts to get about half of them going. I only gave it a try once, and the mobo still did not work right as evidently it had other bad caps that just hadn't visibly leaked yet. I did pick up a few spare Optiplex boards on eBay that cost less than a set of caps...just for the heck of it. |
#18
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname
philo wrote:
On 06/10/2013 05:17 PM, Paul wrote: J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , philo writes: [] I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps. Once I see that I scrap out the machine. As opposed to scrapping it in? Getting it "out the door", is the right direction :-) Who wants to spend hours soldering caps ? I've done it, and even with a $3000 rework station, it still takes a couple hours. It's not really all that cost effective, unless the product has sentimental value to you. Caps are easy to remove and replace, if they use big holes in the motherboard. If the legs of the caps are jammed into the holes (interference fit), then the job is messy. And you don't want to tear them out with brute force, because you can rip out the plated holes. (Been there, done that.) Paul I sometimes get in 20 machines at a time and no way is it worth it to replace caps on an obsolete machine. Since I get the machines free, I don't want to spend money and time trying to repair mobos. Last batch I got in, I ended up with enough parts to get about half of them going. I only gave it a try once, and the mobo still did not work right as evidently it had other bad caps that just hadn't visibly leaked yet. I did pick up a few spare Optiplex boards on eBay that cost less than a set of caps...just for the heck of it. If the Vcore has seven caps on output and five caps on input (parallel arrays), you replace every cap in the array. If one leaks in the array, you replace all of them. And its for the reason you state - the others are going bad as well, and might not be visibly damaged yet. On a seven cap array, if one fails, the other six carry more ripple current than they used to. This tends to accelerate failure of the others, even if they don't leak while doing so. That helps the failures to correlate. Some cap failures can be near to being perfectly harmless. If a bulk bypass cap fails (chemical breakdown, not stress), you might not miss it in operation. These would be caps near the PCI slots. The liquid electrolyte though, could corrode other things. Some day, you'll be getting used gear with 100% Polymer caps, and this nightmare will be over :-) Paul |
#19
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname
On 06/10/2013 04:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , philo writes: [] I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps. Once I see that I scrap out the machine. As opposed to scrapping it in? |
#20
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname
On 06/10/2013 06:21 PM, Paul wrote:
X snipped for brevity Some cap failures can be near to being perfectly harmless. If a bulk bypass cap fails (chemical breakdown, not stress), you might not miss it in operation. These would be caps near the PCI slots. The liquid electrolyte though, could corrode other things. Some day, you'll be getting used gear with 100% Polymer caps, and this nightmare will be over :-) Paul I guess what amazes me is that the machines I am getting with bad caps are of varying ages spanning quite a few years. OTOH: Why should I be surprised? |
#21
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname
philo wrote:
I guess what amazes me is that the machines I am getting with bad caps are of varying ages spanning quite a few years. OTOH: Why should I be surprised? That's really the shocking and sad part. How long this went on. It went on for years. Multiple Chinese manufacturers were using the bogus electrolyte. What I can't figure out, is what production manager would get a bonus, for saving a few cents on caps, only to turn around and have a huge rate of warranty returns. I can't figure an up-side, to using the cheap bogus caps. Sooner or later, you'll be paying for them. Paul |
#22
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correct name
Paul wrote:
philo wrote: I guess what amazes me is that the machines I am getting with bad caps are of varying ages spanning quite a few years. OTOH: Why should I be surprised? That's really the shocking and sad part. How long this went on. It went on for years. Multiple Chinese manufacturers were using the bogus electrolyte. What I can't figure out, is what production manager would get a bonus, for saving a few cents on caps, only to turn around and have a huge rate of warranty returns. That's assuming 1) there actually were lots of warranty returns and 2) that the production manager stayed there in that position (and didn't move up or out onto a new job). Remember corporations (and government) only think short term. Long term is an "advanced" concept. I can't figure an up-side, to using the cheap bogus caps. Sooner or later, you'll be paying for them. Paul But in the end, do they care? (Not unless it actually did cut into their bottom line, which in this case would necessitate tons of returns) |
#23
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname
Bill in Co wrote:
Paul wrote: philo wrote: I guess what amazes me is that the machines I am getting with bad caps are of varying ages spanning quite a few years. OTOH: Why should I be surprised? That's really the shocking and sad part. How long this went on. It went on for years. Multiple Chinese manufacturers were using the bogus electrolyte. What I can't figure out, is what production manager would get a bonus, for saving a few cents on caps, only to turn around and have a huge rate of warranty returns. That's assuming 1) there actually were lots of warranty returns and 2) that the production manager stayed there in that position (and didn't move up or out onto a new job). Remember corporations (and government) only think short term. Long term is an "advanced" concept. I can't figure an up-side, to using the cheap bogus caps. Sooner or later, you'll be paying for them. Paul But in the end, do they care? (Not unless it actually did cut into their bottom line, which in this case would necessitate tons of returns) Wow. This article just gets longer and longer. There is a section for "after 2007" now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague And I couldn't find mention of any "class action lawsuits" in that article. The Abit motherboard company lost one of those. And there was at least one other suit. Paul |
#24
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correct name
In message , philo*
writes: On 06/10/2013 04:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , philo writes: [] I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps. Once I see that I scrap out the machine. As opposed to scrapping it in? Glad someone else appreciated that! (I'd just say "scrap the machine" - no in _or_ out.) But the articles about the caps were interesting! -- J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf Build a better mousetrap and along will come better mice. |
#25
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correct name
[snip]
Installed the A11 version of the BIOS. But it didn't change anything. The Sony CDROM drive was still listed as "unknown". Some combination of Windows and the controller is jacked up. I have another old CDROM drive: Samsung SC-140b. It works in the PC but only in PIO mode. Windows initially detected it and set the primary controller mode Multi-Word DMA Mode 2. But once I put in a CD the PC locked up. I'm glad I have an external USB DVD drive. I give up on work with this old technology. Thank you everyone for your comments. Out! |
#26
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname
On 06/11/2013 01:20 AM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
In message , philo writes: On 06/10/2013 04:41 PM, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: In message , philo writes: [] I've also gotten in a lot of Dells with bad caps. Once I see that I scrap out the machine. As opposed to scrapping it in? Glad someone else appreciated that! (I'd just say "scrap the machine" - no in _or_ out.) But the articles about the caps were interesting! Yes. I got your sense of humor because I have a similar one. (My wife does not know what to do with me.) BTW: I bet you will like this one: This morning I repaired an IBM Thinkpad that had the "fan failure" message . I took the thing apart and luckily the fan was still good, it was just clogged with debris. It had a quality inspection sticker stuck in it! Probably the "best" problem I've ever come across yet. |
#27
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname
kev833 wrote:
[snip] Installed the A11 version of the BIOS. But it didn't change anything. The Sony CDROM drive was still listed as "unknown". Some combination of Windows and the controller is jacked up. I have another old CDROM drive: Samsung SC-140b. It works in the PC but only in PIO mode. Windows initially detected it and set the primary controller mode Multi-Word DMA Mode 2. But once I put in a CD the PC locked up. I'm glad I have an external USB DVD drive. I give up on work with this old technology. Thank you everyone for your comments. Out! I think it's time to change cables. Seriously. You want an 80 wire UDMA cable, not the 40 wire cable you're using at present. The 80 wire uses a finer wire, as shown on the left here. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%26_80_pin.jpg It sounds like you have a signal integrity problem. The signals look bad on those cables at the best of times. It is not "electrical engineerings finest hour". The SATA cable, by comparison, is an example of excellence. IDE cables, not so much. The thing they got right on the IDE cable, was including a reset signal, something the SATA cable could have used. And don't get carried away on length either. This is long enough. Standard length. 18" http://www.startech.com/Cables/Drive...DE-Cable~IDE66 They also make stuff like this, but I cannot imagine what they were thinking. This is twice as long and is only going to result in grief (CRC errors). An 18" cable is what you want, especially when your current setup appears to not work properly. http://www.startech.com/Cables/Drive...Cable~IDE66_36 Paul |
#28
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correct name
After all the back and forth with this issue, it came down someone the IT department doing something strange to the Windows XP Pro SP3 installation on the machine. The PC was purshased as is from an company auction. So who knows what happened. maybe it could also be a corrupted reqistery. Bottom-line, no CD-RW/DVD-ROM would work in this PC.
My solution was to place my spare 160GB ATA/IDE hard drive in the PC as the master device and use the Sony CD-RW/DVD-ROM as the slave device and installed Windows XP Home SP3. Once that was completed I checked the properties of the Primary IDE Channel which indicated UDMA Mode 5 for "device 0" and UDMA Mode 2 for "device 1". So this was not a hardward or BIOS issue. On Tuesday, June 11, 2013 9:30:21 AM UTC-4, Paul wrote: kev833 wrote: [snip] Installed the A11 version of the BIOS. But it didn't change anything. The Sony CDROM drive was still listed as "unknown". Some combination of Windows and the controller is jacked up. I have another old CDROM drive: Samsung SC-140b. It works in the PC but only in PIO mode.. Windows initially detected it and set the primary controller mode Multi-Word DMA Mode 2. But once I put in a CD the PC locked up. I'm glad I have an external USB DVD drive. I give up on work with this old technology. Thank you everyone for your comments. Out! I think it's time to change cables. Seriously. You want an 80 wire UDMA cable, not the 40 wire cable you're using at present. The 80 wire uses a finer wire, as shown on the left here. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%26_80_pin.jpg It sounds like you have a signal integrity problem. The signals look bad on those cables at the best of times. It is not "electrical engineerings finest hour". The SATA cable, by comparison, is an example of excellence. IDE cables, not so much. The thing they got right on the IDE cable, was including a reset signal, something the SATA cable could have used. And don't get carried away on length either. This is long enough. Standard length. 18" http://www.startech.com/Cables/Drive...DE-Cable~IDE66 They also make stuff like this, but I cannot imagine what they were thinking. This is twice as long and is only going to result in grief (CRC errors). An 18" cable is what you want, especially when your current setup appears to not work properly. http://www.startech.com/Cables/Drive...Cable~IDE66_36 Paul |
#29
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CDROM listed as "unknown" in BIOS but Windows detects correctname
On 06/17/2013 11:55 AM, kev833 wrote:
After all the back and forth with this issue, it came down someone the IT department doing something strange to the Windows XP Pro SP3 installation on the machine. The PC was purshased as is from an company auction. So who knows what happened. maybe it could also be a corrupted reqistery. Bottom-line, no CD-RW/DVD-ROM would work in this PC. My solution was to place my spare 160GB ATA/IDE hard drive in the PC as the master device and use the Sony CD-RW/DVD-ROM as the slave device and installed Windows XP Home SP3. Once that was completed I checked the properties of the Primary IDE Channel which indicated UDMA Mode 5 for "device 0" and UDMA Mode 2 for "device 1". So this was not a hardward or BIOS issue. You changed your story. Initially you said the device was not properly IDed in the BIOS but functioned OK in Windows. |
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