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Win 10 clean install



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 7th 15, 05:08 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Oren
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Win 10 clean install

First time posting here.

Does the clean install need or use the Product key for/from Win7/8 or
is a new one included in the Win10 ISO? I'd like to move my wife's
Vista to Win7 with the Product key I have. Saving it, and doing a
clean install on that machine with my Win7 SP1 ISO.

Thanks for your advice.
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  #2  
Old August 7th 15, 07:34 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Win 10 clean install

Oren wrote:
First time posting here.

Does the clean install need or use the Product key for/from Win7/8 or
is a new one included in the Win10 ISO? I'd like to move my wife's
Vista to Win7 with the Product key I have. Saving it, and doing a
clean install on that machine with my Win7 SP1 ISO.

Thanks for your advice.


You know, it occurs to me, that this is a "long upgrade" path.

Do you even know if Win10 has a video driver for the laptop ?

You could be burning a Win7 key for nothing, if it turns
out GWX says Win10 Upgrade isn't an option.

What is the make and model of computer ?

*******

One of the problems is, there is no stand-alone
Upgrade Assistant. Without an Upgrade Assistant,
it's pretty hard at the moment, for a user to determine
whether to buy Win10 for $149 or $249. Normally,
you'd have an Upgrade Assistant to download, which
could check the hardware in advance of the purchase.

Using such an Assistant, you could tell whether your
Vista was a candidate for Win10, from a hardware
perspective.

What is happening in this case, is GWX (Get Windows 10)
is available in Win7SP1 or Win8.1. And checks qualifications
for the free upgrade. That's the only upgrade assistant.
GWX even has pre-requisites, so support packages
are installed by Windows Update, before the GWX package
can be installed. That means you would install Win7SP1,
plus around 200 updates to bring Win7SP1 up to date,
unless you wanted to pick and choose just the
prerequisite installations (which would be pretty
hard to get the list of those done correctly).

The whole thing is a shambles, from a fairness and
honesty perspective. It's a hell of a way to run
a business.

We don't currently have the tools, to tell you
whether this is a good idea or not.

I can comment on your processor, via the model information.
But there can always be some tiny thing I've forgotten
though. For a foolproof solution, there should be
an Upgrade Assistant.

*******

You can try downloading this, and booting the DVD
made from this, and see what it says. Do a backup
of the laptop Vista hard drive (a complete backup),
before you begin. My worst horror story with a
Microsoft installer CD, was the Win2K CD which erased
the hard drive, even though I selected "Quit" before
the installation had started. I used TestDisk to
recovery the hard drive :-) Never trust any installer
CD/DVD, further than you can throw it. A DVD from here,
apparently has both Home and Pro images on it. But you
still have to select x32 or x64, for the OS version
(size of CPU instructions - practically any processor
ready to run the OS, will be able to handle x64).

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...d/windows10ISO

You can check the System control panel in Vista, just
to verify the OS is 64 bit. Some people use the 32 bit
version, because they run older (MSDOS) era programs.
The 64 bit OS runs 64 bit and 32 bit programs.
The 32 bit OS runs 32 bit and 16 bit programs.
The System control panel will mention "64" in the
text, if it is a 64 bit OS. It won't say anything
if the install is 32 bit.

Your "clean install" with Win7, would allow selecting
either of those choices. Your Win10 download, should
match the "bitness" of the Win7 installation you
are doing. So the Win7 step controls things here.
And the Win7SP1 license key you've got, will
work with either 32 bit or 64 bit media. One
license covers both.

Paul
  #3  
Old August 7th 15, 08:44 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Oren
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Win 10 clean install

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 14:34:14 -0400, Paul wrote:

Oren wrote:
First time posting here.

Does the clean install need or use the Product key for/from Win7/8 or
is a new one included in the Win10 ISO? I'd like to move my wife's
Vista to Win7 with the Product key I have. Saving it, and doing a
clean install on that machine with my Win7 SP1 ISO.

Thanks for your advice.


You know, it occurs to me, that this is a "long upgrade" path.

Do you even know if Win10 has a video driver for the laptop ?

You could be burning a Win7 key for nothing, if it turns
out GWX says Win10 Upgrade isn't an option.

What is the make and model of computer ?

*******

One of the problems is, there is no stand-alone
Upgrade Assistant. Without an Upgrade Assistant,
it's pretty hard at the moment, for a user to determine
whether to buy Win10 for $149 or $249. Normally,
you'd have an Upgrade Assistant to download, which
could check the hardware in advance of the purchase.

Using such an Assistant, you could tell whether your
Vista was a candidate for Win10, from a hardware
perspective.

What is happening in this case, is GWX (Get Windows 10)
is available in Win7SP1 or Win8.1. And checks qualifications
for the free upgrade. That's the only upgrade assistant.
GWX even has pre-requisites, so support packages
are installed by Windows Update, before the GWX package
can be installed. That means you would install Win7SP1,
plus around 200 updates to bring Win7SP1 up to date,
unless you wanted to pick and choose just the
prerequisite installations (which would be pretty
hard to get the list of those done correctly).

The whole thing is a shambles, from a fairness and
honesty perspective. It's a hell of a way to run
a business.

We don't currently have the tools, to tell you
whether this is a good idea or not.

I can comment on your processor, via the model information.
But there can always be some tiny thing I've forgotten
though. For a foolproof solution, there should be
an Upgrade Assistant.

*******

You can try downloading this, and booting the DVD
made from this, and see what it says. Do a backup
of the laptop Vista hard drive (a complete backup),
before you begin. My worst horror story with a
Microsoft installer CD, was the Win2K CD which erased
the hard drive, even though I selected "Quit" before
the installation had started. I used TestDisk to
recovery the hard drive :-) Never trust any installer
CD/DVD, further than you can throw it. A DVD from here,
apparently has both Home and Pro images on it. But you
still have to select x32 or x64, for the OS version
(size of CPU instructions - practically any processor
ready to run the OS, will be able to handle x64).

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/soft...d/windows10ISO

You can check the System control panel in Vista, just
to verify the OS is 64 bit. Some people use the 32 bit
version, because they run older (MSDOS) era programs.
The 64 bit OS runs 64 bit and 32 bit programs.
The 32 bit OS runs 32 bit and 16 bit programs.
The System control panel will mention "64" in the
text, if it is a 64 bit OS. It won't say anything
if the install is 32 bit.

Your "clean install" with Win7, would allow selecting
either of those choices. Your Win10 download, should
match the "bitness" of the Win7 installation you
are doing. So the Win7 step controls things here.
And the Win7SP1 license key you've got, will
work with either 32 bit or 64 bit media. One
license covers both.

Paul


Thanks Paul. I know the wife's Vista machine will run Win7 x64. My
present Win7 x32 machine will run Win10 x32/x64, or at least it was
offered via the task bar icon shown before (I did hide / kill the
Win10 KB file) for the moment.

Say I format "my" present machine, do a clean install of Win10 -- do I
really need a Win7 product key? I can put off messing with my wife's
Vista x64, but I do know it will run Win7 x64.

Hope I have not been confusing. I am experienced.
  #4  
Old August 7th 15, 08:49 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Oren
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Win 10 clean install

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 10:27:21 -0600, Ken1943 wrote:

Read this web site before installing. Windows 10 really invades your
privacy.


Yes. I aware of that. Thanks.

"Microsoft’s Windows 10 software has some features that can certainly
be considered an invasion of privacy, and they’re enabled by default."

Article:

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/08/05/stop-windows-10-spying-dead-in-its-tracks-with-one-free-app/?intcmp=hphz08

Here is a full list of the settings DoNotSpy10 can currently
configu

Disable telemetry
Disable Biometrics
Disable handwriting data disclosure
Disable handwriting Error Reporting
Disable Application Telemetry
Disable Inventory Collector
Disable Steps Recorder
Disable lock screen camera settings
Deactivate and reset Cortana
Disable localization
Disable sensors
Disable Web search
Disable Windows Media DRM Internet access
Activate postponing upgrades
Disable app notifications
Disable Password button ads
Stopping and resetting the advertising ID
Disable SmartScreen filter for URLs
Disable sending write information
Disable access to language list
Disable app access to localization
Disable app access to camera
Disable app access to microphone
Disable acquaintance
Disable app access to user accounts info
Disable app access to calendar
Disable app access to messages
Disable app access to wireless connections
Disable app access to Uncoupled devices
Disable prompts Feedback
Disabling Windows Update distribution
Disable Windows Update for other products
Disable WiFi Sense
Disable Windows Defender
Disable automatic Windows Updates
Deactivate OneDrive
Disable Automatic Driver Updates
  #5  
Old August 7th 15, 09:32 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Paul
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,275
Default Win 10 clean install

Oren wrote:


Thanks Paul. I know the wife's Vista machine will run Win7 x64. My
present Win7 x32 machine will run Win10 x32/x64, or at least it was
offered via the task bar icon shown before (I did hide / kill the
Win10 KB file) for the moment.

Say I format "my" present machine, do a clean install of Win10 -- do I
really need a Win7 product key? I can put off messing with my wife's
Vista x64, but I do know it will run Win7 x64.

Hope I have not been confusing. I am experienced.


The free upgrade is from

Win7SP1 x32 or x64 (all five versions) to Win10 x32 or x64 (maps to two versions)
Win8.1 x32 or x64 (two versions) to Win10 x32 or x64 (maps to two versions)

There is no option to do anything with Vista as such. Or WinXP.
They're too old for this offer.

You can also buy Win10 for $149 or $249 (Home or Pro).
And end up not really knowing whether your hardware is
suited to such an installation or not.

Win7 is relatively free of hardware dependencies.

Win8 had three hardware requirements.
Win8.1 added three more hardware requirements.

Win10 would have the same (total) six hardware requirements
of Win 8.1.

One poster here (Al Drake), tried to upgrade a computer
with a processor (E6800) which is "past" the P4 generation. I thought
for sure it would work. Yet, the CMPXCHG16b instruction is claimed
to be missing, and even though it's highly likely the processor
actually has the instruction, it doesn't matter, as the
check the installer on the DVD does, is all that matters.

There are x32 and x64 issues with these, so the requirements
should probably have separate lists for x32 and x64. For example,
I don't think PAE is used on a x64 install, but I could be wrong.

PAE - Physical address extension, for NX bit support.
PAE is used, because the translation table definition
leaves room for them to store an NX bit in the table.
Not sure this applies to 64 bit installs.
NX - Prevents malware from writing to code space.
Can be disabled in the BIOS.
SSE2 - Instruction set extension, used extensively for
block data movement.

PrefetchW - "Prefetch at least a 32-byte line into L1 data cache"
Possibly created by a cache hint pragma in source code.

CMPXCHG16b - "allows for atomic operations on octal words"
"perform a 128-bit locked compare and exchange"
(The processor may be 64 bit, but you're doing a 128 bit
operation in an uninterruptible way.) Some AMD64
lacked this. Coreinfo abbreviation is different.

LAHF/SAHF - "LAHF stands for Load AH from Flags and SAHF
stands for Store AH into Flags."
"used for... floating-point condition handling"

You can use Coreinfo from Sysinternals, to read out some of those.
NX can be disabled in the BIOS, and on retail motherboards, you
check the BIOS setting before starting the installation. It's
not likely to be turned off, but you never know until you
get there.

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/...rnals/cc835722

Paul
  #6  
Old August 7th 15, 09:43 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
s|b
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,496
Default Win 10 clean install

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 12:49:14 -0700, Oren wrote:

Here is a full list of the settings DoNotSpy10 can currently
configu


That's a /lot/ of disabling. Is W10 really worth it?

--
s|b
  #7  
Old August 7th 15, 10:11 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Oren
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Win 10 clean install

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 22:43:18 +0200, "s|b" wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 12:49:14 -0700, Oren wrote:

Here is a full list of the settings DoNotSpy10 can currently
configu


That's a /lot/ of disabling. Is W10 really worth it?


Good point. But, I'm an adventurous individual. If an App can help. It
doesn't need so much manual effort. Not that I think the App is a
proven solution for the moment.

I'd like to play with Win10 before I could offer help to those that
have asked me so early.
  #8  
Old August 8th 15, 03:26 AM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
. . .winston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,345
Default Win 10 clean install

Oren wrote on 08/07/2015 12:08 PM:
First time posting here.

Does the clean install need or use the Product key for/from Win7/8 or
is a new one included in the Win10 ISO? I'd like to move my wife's
Vista to Win7 with the Product key I have. Saving it, and doing a
clean install on that machine with my Win7 SP1 ISO.

Thanks for your advice.


A clean install using the free media created from the MSFT Media
Creation Tool can only be performed after the qualifying o/s (7/8x) has
been upgraded to Windows 10.


The clean install using the above noted media
--- *****Will Not Accept a product key from any edition of
Windows 7 or Windows 8****



--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience
  #9  
Old August 8th 15, 03:38 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bucky Breeder[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 526
Default Win 10 clean install

s|b posted this
via :

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 12:49:14 -0700, Oren wrote:

Here is a full list of the settings DoNotSpy10 can currently
configu


That's a /lot/ of disabling. Is W10 really worth it?


Yes. If folks might recall, the Windows9x series had a bunch of default
settings which needed to be adjusted as well. Some were big-time security
issues...

I wouldn't recommend using DoNotSpy10... yet... The settings are numerous,
but accessable - and MANY articles are available to help adjust and tweak
these settings. It may be useful to learn how to undo/redo these settings
manually - and someone just might find some of these settings useful...

http://windows.wonderhowto.com/inspi...-need-disable-
windows-10-0163552/

or: http://tinyurl.com/p8gn4ot

Windows 10 has a lot of features which cross-over platforms like tablets,
etc., where folks might find "convenient" what we'd call "privacy issues".
There's a lot of good articles out there with advise how to configure to
your preferences... Nothing is particularly "urgent"... and if you've been
flying with Win7/8/8.1, most things should be relatively intuitive - or, at
least, relatively easy to adapt.

Windows Edge is the typical example which I'd cite... IOW, It comes loaded
as the default browser. It's VERY FAST!... but it's VERY CRIPPLED for most
users who have been surfing for a while... Microsoft likely wanted to
introduce it rather than substitute it for IE. After all, Edge is only an
app, whereas IE, as well as Firefox, et-al, are full-fledged browsers...

The point here is that all you have to do, is change your default to
whichever browser you prefer; then you can un-pin Edge from the task bar
and Start tiles, and pin IE or Firefox to the Start tiles and/or taskbar...
then if you later change your preferences, just reverse the process.

Some of the access to settings are a little daunting at first, but all-in-
all, Windows 10 is a lot more user-friendly and adaptable than were Windows
7, 8 and 8.1 (IMO)... and just think, this is only the initial release!
Microsoft seems committed to listening to the feedback and tweaking the
features in future updates.

YMMV

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and,
It's like Yogi Berra always used to say:
"The future ain't what it used to be!"

http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq
  #10  
Old August 8th 15, 08:48 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
s|b
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,496
Default Win 10 clean install

On 08 Aug 2015 14:38:44 GMT, Bucky Breeder wrote:

8 selective snip 8
Some of the access to settings are a little daunting at first, but all-in-
all, Windows 10 is a lot more user-friendly and adaptable than were Windows
7, 8 and 8.1 (IMO)... and just think, this is only the initial release!
Microsoft seems committed to listening to the feedback and tweaking the
features in future updates.


I just read on a forum W10 users agree on this:

quote

- we collect your voice input, as well your name and nickname, your
recent calendar events and the names of the people in your appointments,
and information about your contacts including names and nicknames.

- Microsoft collects and uses data about your speech, inking
(handwriting), and typing on Windows devices

- we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your
content (such as the content of your emails, other private
communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith
belief that doing so is necessary

/quote

Collets data on my typing... what!? I wouldn't consider that to be
user-friendly...

--
s|b
  #11  
Old August 8th 15, 11:23 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Oren
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Win 10 clean install

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 22:43:18 +0200, "s|b" wrote:

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 12:49:14 -0700, Oren wrote:

Here is a full list of the settings DoNotSpy10 can currently
configu


That's a /lot/ of disabling. Is W10 really worth it?


It reminds me of when XP was unleashed on the masses, most all ports
open at install. What is good for a home user is not meant to compare
what corporations wanted. Home users had no idea of being so
vulnerable or how to stop it.
  #12  
Old August 9th 15, 03:31 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bucky Breeder[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 526
Default Win 10 clean install

s|b posted this via
:

On 08 Aug 2015 14:38:44 GMT, Bucky Breeder wrote:

8 selective snip 8
Some of the access to settings are a little daunting at first, but
all-in- all, Windows 10 is a lot more user-friendly and adaptable than
were Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 (IMO)... and just think, this is only the
initial release! Microsoft seems committed to listening to the
feedback and tweaking the features in future updates.


I just read on a forum W10 users agree on this:

quote

- we collect your voice input, as well your name and nickname, your
recent calendar events and the names of the people in your appointments,
and information about your contacts including names and nicknames.

- Microsoft collects and uses data about your speech, inking
(handwriting), and typing on Windows devices

- we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your
content (such as the content of your emails, other private
communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith
belief that doing so is necessary

/quote

Collets data on my typing... what!? I wouldn't consider that to be
user-friendly...


How difficult is it to put your cursor on that switch and turn it off?

Have we become the spoiled and entitled generation? I do have servants
that do this for me... but, *I* must make the executive decisions!

HTH.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and,
It's like Yogi Berra always used to say:
"The future ain't what it used to be!"

http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq
  #13  
Old August 9th 15, 03:41 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Bucky Breeder[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 526
Default Win 10 clean install

Wolf K posted this via
:

On 2015-08-08 15:48, s|b wrote:
I just read on a forum W10 users agree on this:

quote

[...]

- we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your
content (such as the content of your emails, other private
communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith
belief that doing so is necessary

/quote


That last paragraph tells you they won't fight requests from "security
agencies" that want data about you. Or anybody that's willing to pay for
the data.

Have a good day,


I think "that last paragraph" is to protect themselves from folks who are
using Windows to distribute pirated Windows... like in the heyday of WinXP
pirating before they initiated activation, verification, WGA, et-al....
As well as ISIS and other terrorists who are plotting mass murders and
other WMD events at shopping centers and movie theaters... Since I don't
do any of that, I'm not too concerned because if I want to be a terrorist,
well, let's just say I wouldn't blast about it all over the interwebs.

Arrrghhh... If I'm in a pirating mood, I just use Ubuntu... Shiver me
timbers. Those guys are the ones the NSAs should be watching.

Look, shopping centers have camera surveillance. Does that mean you stop
buying groceries and start your own self-sufficient garden in the backyard
because you value your Constitutional Right to Privacy? Some people don't
have backyards. And some people with backyards have swimming pools in
them. And some people keep their kidnapped girls locked in sheds back
there...

Windows is just a tool. You use it for its intended purposes, and it'll
all be OK. You gonna be a terrorist or a criminal, you need to learn to
use the appropriate tools.

HTH.

--

I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; and,
It's like Yogi Berra always used to say:
"The future ain't what it used to be!"

http://tinyurl.com/ocnqvgq
  #14  
Old August 9th 15, 04:25 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
s|b
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,496
Default Win 10 clean install

On 09 Aug 2015 14:31:03 GMT, Bucky Breeder wrote:

How difficult is it to put your cursor on that switch and turn it off?

Have we become the spoiled and entitled generation? I do have servants
that do this for me... but, *I* must make the executive decisions!


I've been told you have to agree to these conditions or otherwise you
can't install W10. Now you're saying you can disagree and still install
the thing?

--
s|b
  #15  
Old August 9th 15, 04:31 PM posted to alt.comp.os.windows-8
Jonas Q[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Win 10 clean install

On 09-Aug-2015 11:25, s|b wrote:
On 09 Aug 2015 14:31:03 GMT, Bucky Breeder wrote:

How difficult is it to put your cursor on that switch and turn it off?

Have we become the spoiled and entitled generation? I do have servants
that do this for me... but, *I* must make the executive decisions!


I've been told you have to agree to these conditions or otherwise you
can't install W10. Now you're saying you can disagree and still install
the thing?


You were told wrong.
If you don't choose *Express install* you can turn just about everything
off.
 




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