Changing Hard Disk Partition Size

"Ed Light" wrote

It's good to have an OS partition and a data partition and every now and
then image the os partition to DVD. The bootitng floppy can do that.
Don't forget to set the OS partition as the boot -- "active" -- partition.

--
Ed Light

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"Ed Light" wrote

I run a main OS partition and some clones of it and they all share the
mail and favorites. And the internet temp files.

In fact, they all share the same My Documents folder.

My boot manager is bootitng.

I feel so clever!

--
Ed Light

Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

randau wrote:

Thank you all for your informative answers to my questions. I'm
planning on upgrading to a new machine and operating system and wanted
to consider Partitioning of the hard drive. After seeing your
replies, I think I'll be very judicious about Partitioning the hard
drive (if I do it at all). Maybe just one Partition for the
Operating System and everything else (applications and data) in a
second Partition (in case I had to reinstall the OS).


Please note that if you ever have to reinstall the operating system, having
your data in a separate partition may help you (but see below), but having
the applications there will do *nothing* for you. The Windows folder
contains many references to your installed applications (in the registry and
elsewhere) that are needed by the applications. If Windows is reinstalled,
all those references vanish and the applications will no longer work.

Returning to the issue of having the data in a separate partition, note that
if your data is important to you, it always needs to be backed up, and if it
is backed up and you ever have to reinstall the operating system, you can
simply restore the data from the backup, even if it's not on a separate
partition. In fact, I think that many people who do as you suggest get a
false sense of security from having data on a second partition and have that
kind of separation *instead* of a backup, thinking that it takes away the
need for a backup. In fact, that's not at all true of course, since things
like a hard drive crash (and other events) can easily destroy everything.

In general, my view is that most people's partitioning schemes should be
based on their backup scheme. If, for example, you backup by creating a
clone or image on the entire drive, then a single partition might be best.
If, on the other hand, you backup only your data, then the backup process is
facilitated by having all data in a separate
partition.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

randau wrote:
Thank you all for your informative answers to my questions. I'm
planning on upgrading to a new machine and operating system and wanted
to consider Partitioning of the hard drive. After seeing your replies,
I think I'll be very judicious about Partitioning the hard drive (if I
do it at all). Maybe just one Partition for the Operating System and
everything else (applications and data) in a second Partition (in case
I had to reinstall the OS).

Thanks again for all your helpful replies,

I've used BootItNG many times in the past, and it's always been reliable
at resizing my partititions. However, whenever I use BING, I'm usually
using it to upgrade to a new bigger hard disk, which means that I'm
always only using it to resize a partition upwards, never downwards.
Going upwards is easy, going downwards could be hairy.

Yousuf Khan

Pardon me if this post is repeated. My first attempt at posting it
appeared to have failed.

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
Please note that if you ever have to reinstall the operating system, having
your data in a separate partition may help you (but see below), but having
the applications there will do *nothing* for you. The Windows folder
contains many references to your installed applications (in the registry and
elsewhere) that are needed by the applications. If Windows is reinstalled,
all those references vanish and the applications will no longer work.

Thank you, that's a really good point! Though I should know better,
I'm still in the habit of thinking about application programs as they
were in the good old days when they were totally separate from the
operating system. You could delete them by merely deleting their
parent directory (with all its sub-directories) and you could restore
them along with all their data by merely coping them from a backup
disk. Why in the world did they make things so complicated by creating
all those application program tentacles into the operating system? Was
it really necessary?

Returning to the issue of having the data in a separate partition, note that
if your data is important to you, it always needs to be backed up, and if it
is backed up and you ever have to reinstall the operating system, you can
simply restore the data from the backup, even if it's not on a separate
partition.

In general, my view is that most people's partitioning schemes should be
based on their backup scheme. If, for example, you backup by creating a
clone or image on the entire drive, then a single partition might be best.
If, on the other hand, you backup only your data, then the backup process is
facilitated by having all data in a separate
partition.

I do backup all my data daily using the FileBack application program.
It lets you specify which folders and/or files you want backed up and
automatically backs up any that are new or have changed. So, there's
probably no need even for a data partition. I think I'll forget about
partitioning altogether.

Thanks again for the heads-up reply.
--
randau

"Yousuf Khan" wrote

I've used BootItNG many times in the past, and it's always been reliable
at resizing my partititions. However, whenever I use BING, I'm usually
using it to upgrade to a new bigger hard disk, which means that I'm always
only using it to resize a partition upwards, never downwards. Going
upwards is easy, going downwards could be hairy.

I've sized NTFS partitions downwards (and also slid them [moved them in or
out]) with BING many times and it's been fine so far. I always make it
easier on old BING by defragmenting first.

--
Ed Light

Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

randau wrote:

Pardon me if this post is repeated. My first
attempt at posting it appeared to have failed.

Yeah, didnt see it here either.

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
Please note that if you ever have to reinstall the operating system,
having your data in a separate partition may help you (but see
below), but having the applications there will do *nothing* for you.
The Windows folder contains many references to your installed
applications (in the registry and elsewhere) that are needed by the
applications. If Windows is reinstalled, all those references vanish
and the applications will no longer work.

Thank you, that's a really good point! Though I should know better,
I'm still in the habit of thinking about application programs as they
were in the good old days when they were totally separate from the
operating system. You could delete them by merely deleting their
parent directory (with all its sub-directories) and you could restore
them along with all their data by merely coping them from a backup
disk. Why in the world did they make things so complicated by
creating all those application program tentacles into the operating
system? Was it really necessary?

The main advantage with using dlls is that that common code
is in the dlls and doesnt get repeated in all the apps etc.

And you can fix a bug in the code by replacing the dll and fix it for everything too.

Returning to the issue of having the data in a separate partition,
note that if your data is important to you, it always needs to be
backed up, and if it is backed up and you ever have to reinstall the
operating system, you can simply restore the data from the backup,
even if it's not on a separate partition.

In general, my view is that most people's partitioning schemes
should be based on their backup scheme. If, for example, you backup
by creating a clone or image on the entire drive, then a single
partition might be best. If, on the other hand, you backup only your
data, then the backup process is facilitated by having all data in a
separate partition.

I do backup all my data daily using the FileBack application program.
It lets you specify which folders and/or files you want backed up and
automatically backs up any that are new or have changed. So, there's
probably no need even for a data partition. I think I'll forget about
partitioning altogether.

Thanks again for the heads-up reply.

Rod Speed wrote:
The main advantage with using dlls is that that common code
is in the dlls and doesnt get repeated in all the apps etc.

My email client (Eudora 5.2) includes and maintains all its own .dll
files within its own file folders. Thus, separating it from the
operating system making it able to be totally backed up and restored by
merely copying all its file folders. It also avoids the risk of having
to deal with conflicting changes in "shared" .dll files. I wish all my
applications were that straight foreword.

randau wrote
Rod Speed wrote

The main advantage with using dlls is that that common code
is in the dlls and doesnt get repeated in all the apps etc.

My email client (Eudora 5.2) includes and maintains
all its own .dll files within its own file folders.

Dinosaur approach.

Thus, separating it from the operating system making it able to be
totally backed up and restored by merely copying all its file folders.

Most dont want to backup the code, its trivially replaceable
from the installable, what matters is the data files that arent.

If you do want a very quick restore on hard drive failure etc,
its much better to just image the entire drive and restore that.

It also avoids the risk of having to deal with conflicting changes in "shared" .dll files.

Yes, it certainly does that.

I wish all my applications were that straight foreword.

The world's moved on. For good reasons.

"randau" wrote



My email client (Eudora 5.2) includes and maintains all its own .dll
files within its own file folders. Thus, separating it from the
operating system making it able to be totally backed up and restored by
merely copying all its file folders. It also avoids the risk of having
to deal with conflicting changes in "shared" .dll files. I wish all my
applications were that straight foreword.


These are like that:

http://portableapps.com/apps

Watch out, though. Sunbird isn't quite ready for prime time and the
Thunderbird version could be the older one that had some data loss problems.


--
Ed Light

Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

I guess I am the least skilled person on this forum; so please forgive me in
advance. My problem is related - I think!

Norton Ghost wont do more backups because it says the drive is full, having
saved 58GB of data.

This PC has two 250GB drives. My understanding is that one keeps a backup of
the other.

My Computer - Properties - shows C drive as having a size of 171GB and D
drive 58GB. It is this D drive that has the Norton backup on.

Dell have so far been no help.

So I am confused! Anyone can help please? Thanks



"Ed Light" wrote:


"randau" wrote

Maybe just one Partition for the Operating System and
everything else (applications and data) in a second Partition (in case
I had to reinstall the OS).

It's good to have an OS partition and a data partition and every now and
then image the os partition to DVD. The bootitng floppy can do that.

You can move the mail store, favorites, and other things to the data
partition, so that they are up to date if you have to restore the OS
partition to the last DVD image.

The latest version of the freebie tweakui from Microsoft will let you move
the favorites, and Outlook Express will let you move the mail store.

I run a main OS partition and some clones of it and they all share the mail
and favorites. And the internet temp files.

In fact, they all share the same My Documents folder.

My boot manager is bootitng.
--
Ed Light

Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

Ludo wrote:

I guess I am the least skilled person on this forum; so please
forgive me in advance. My problem is related - I think!

Norton Ghost wont do more backups because it says the drive is full,
having saved 58GB of data.

This PC has two 250GB drives. My understanding is that one keeps a
backup of the other.


No, one doesn't "keep" a backup of the other. *One* of the ways you use this
second drive (probably a second partition on a single drive) is using it for
a backup, and that's apparently what you have been doing using Norton Ghost.
(However, see below for a discussion of the wisdom of doing this).


My Computer - Properties - shows C drive as having a size of 171GB
and D drive 58GB. It is this D drive that has the Norton backup on.

Dell have so far been no help.


No help with what? Did you have a question? It should be obvious that a 58GB
partition is inadequate to backup a 171GB partition.

However, I would rethink that backup strategy. I don't recommend backup to
a second non-removable hard drive because it leaves you susceptible to
simultaneous loss of the original and backup to many of the most common
dangers: severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks,
even theft of the computer.

In your case, if that second drive is actually a second partition, what I
say in that paragraph goes double, because you are also susciptible to
physical failure of the drive. What you are doing is the weakest possible
form of backup.

In my view, secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not kept in
the computer. For really secure backup (needed, for example, if the life of
your business depends on your data) you should have multiple generations of
backup, and at least one of those generations should be stored off-site.


--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup







So I am confused! Anyone can help please? Thanks



"Ed Light" wrote:


"randau" wrote

Maybe just one Partition for the Operating System and
everything else (applications and data) in a second Partition (in
case I had to reinstall the OS).

It's good to have an OS partition and a data partition and every now
and then image the os partition to DVD. The bootitng floppy can do
that.

You can move the mail store, favorites, and other things to the data
partition, so that they are up to date if you have to restore the OS
partition to the last DVD image.

The latest version of the freebie tweakui from Microsoft will let
you move the favorites, and Outlook Express will let you move the
mail store.

I run a main OS partition and some clones of it and they all share
the mail and favorites. And the internet temp files.

In fact, they all share the same My Documents folder.

My boot manager is bootitng.
--
Ed Light

Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
Ludo wrote:

I guess I am the least skilled person on this forum; so please
forgive me in advance. My problem is related - I think!

Norton Ghost wont do more backups because it says the drive is full,
having saved 58GB of data.

This PC has two 250GB drives. My understanding is that one keeps a
backup of the other.


No, one doesn't "keep" a backup of the other. *One* of the ways you
use this second drive (probably a second partition on a single drive)
is using it for a backup, and that's apparently what you have been
doing using Norton Ghost. (However, see below for a discussion of the
wisdom of doing this).

My Computer - Properties - shows C drive as having a size of 171GB
and D drive 58GB. It is this D drive that has the Norton backup on.

Dell have so far been no help.


No help with what? Did you have a question? It should be obvious that
a 58GB partition is inadequate to backup a 171GB partition.


Sorry, I just noticed your subject line. In the future, please ask your
question in the body of the message, not just in the subject line. It's very
easy to miss it there, as I did.

Unfortunately, no version of Windows before Vista provides any way of
changing the existing partition structure of the drive nondestructively. The
only way to do what you want is with third-party software. Partition Magic
is the best-known such program, but there are freeware/shareware
alternatives. One such program is BootIt Next Generation. It's shareware,
but comes with a free 30-day trial, so you should be able to do what you
want within that 30 days. I haven't used it myself (because I've never
needed to use *any* such program), but it comes highly recommended by
several other MVPs here.

Whatever software you use, make sure you have a good backup before
beginning. Although there's no reason to expect a problem, things *can* go
wrong.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

Norton said the volume was full after 58GB? Is the volume you are backing up
to big enough? You may need a bigger volume to create the backup to. You
can also try the highest compression in ghost which usually saves quite a bit
of space, but it slows the process down and there is no guarantee that it
will fit even with the compression set to high if your backup destination is
too small. Consider slaving a blank disk at least as big as the total data
size to the system, format it as FAT32, boot to ghost, backup the disk to the
slave disk, verify the backup, delete the existing partitions, and then let
Norton ghost recreate the largest partition it can. If you are really
paranoid... like me... don't touch the original disk, get another disk that
isn't being used of the size you want, and restore the norton image to that
disk. This way you always have the original disk as a fall back incase
something has gone horribly wrong. :-)

If it stopped at 4GB, I'd say that you have to use the split=512 switch as
you must break the files apart before they 4GB on a FAT32 volume. You can't
create a file bigger than 4GB on a FAT32 volume, so almost all programs
interpret this as a disk full error and stop processing. the split=512
switch breakes the ghost image into multiple 512MB files. You could also use
split=1024 for 1GB files or spllit=650 to fit the files onto CD-ROM Disks.
--
Best Wishes,

Jeffery Smith


"Ludo" wrote:

I guess I am the least skilled person on this forum; so please forgive me in
advance. My problem is related - I think!

Norton Ghost wont do more backups because it says the drive is full, having
saved 58GB of data.

This PC has two 250GB drives. My understanding is that one keeps a backup of
the other.

My Computer - Properties - shows C drive as having a size of 171GB and D
drive 58GB. It is this D drive that has the Norton backup on.

Dell have so far been no help.

So I am confused! Anyone can help please? Thanks



"Ed Light" wrote:


"randau" wrote

Maybe just one Partition for the Operating System and
everything else (applications and data) in a second Partition (in case
I had to reinstall the OS).

It's good to have an OS partition and a data partition and every now and
then image the os partition to DVD. The bootitng floppy can do that.

You can move the mail store, favorites, and other things to the data
partition, so that they are up to date if you have to restore the OS
partition to the last DVD image.

The latest version of the freebie tweakui from Microsoft will let you move
the favorites, and Outlook Express will let you move the mail store.

I run a main OS partition and some clones of it and they all share the mail
and favorites. And the internet temp files.

In fact, they all share the same My Documents folder.

My boot manager is bootitng.
--
Ed Light

Bring the Troops Home:
http://bringthemhomenow.org
http://antiwar.com

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.