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Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?



 
 
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  #211  
Old December 26th 17, 06:59 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In article ,
Andre G. Isaak wrote:

text scripts are interpreted by a shell or other interpreter.

in some cases, a script can be compiled to binary, but that's the
exception, not the rule.

Yup, but that doesn't make the use of "program" when talking about
scripts incorrect. That's because in such a context "Program" is used in
contrast to "data". IOW, the concept is "A script is a type of program."


only in the very loosest sense of the word.


I think you are conflating the word 'program' with 'executable'.


that's the accepted meaning of the term, however, these days, most
people say app, short for application.

If I write a program in a file called main.c, I would consider 'main.c'
to be a program even though it is not an executable until compiled and
linked.


that's a source code file used to generate an executable program.

A script is still a program, though since scripts are generally
interpreted it will have no corresponding executable.


it's a script.
Ads
  #212  
Old December 26th 17, 07:48 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
Lewis
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Posts: 390
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In message Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 20:31:16 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:


A pathname is not needed to specify a file is not the same thing *at
all* as "a filename is enough to specify a file".


Are you seriously trying to sell that?


There is no selling involved, anyone with even the most cursory knowledge
of computers will understand that distinction with no trouble at all,
since the two statements are in no way related.

Your ignorance and refusal to learn might be an issue, however.


--
It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and
Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought...should be literally
unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words.
  #213  
Old December 26th 17, 08:12 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:09:34 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Char Jackson
wrote:

A pathname is not needed to specify a file is not the same thing *at
all* as "a filename is enough to specify a file".


Are you seriously trying to sell that?

Put down the shovel. The hole you're in is deeper than you think.


he's correct.


nonsense.

--

Char Jackson
  #214  
Old December 26th 17, 08:18 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 06:48:59 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:

In message Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 20:31:16 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:


A pathname is not needed to specify a file is not the same thing *at
all* as "a filename is enough to specify a file".


Are you seriously trying to sell that?


There is no selling involved,


In that case, I conclude that you believe what you wrote, which means
you don't have a clue. Thanks for playing.

--

Char Jackson
  #215  
Old December 26th 17, 08:45 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
Lewis
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Posts: 390
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In message Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:09:34 -0500, nospam
wrote:


In article , Char Jackson
wrote:

A pathname is not needed to specify a file is not the same thing *at
all* as "a filename is enough to specify a file".

Are you seriously trying to sell that?

Put down the shovel. The hole you're in is deeper than you think.


he's correct.


nonsense.


Yep, you are full of nonsense. You obviously know nothing at all about
file systems.

I already posted a specific example of a way to access a file without
using a path, but that probably confused you. Even teh original poster
troll admitted that there were file systems that didn't use paths at all.

Paths were an innovation in computer systems, before minix added paths
no computers had paths or any sort of hierarchical file system.

The Newton used a database of objects for file storage, no paths
involved at all.

--
Sometimes the gods have no taste at all. They allow sunrises and sunsets
in ridiculous pink and blue hues that any professional artist would
dismiss as the work of some enthusiastic amateur who'd never looked at a
real sunset. This was one of those sunrises. It was the kind of sunrise
a man looks at and says, 'No real sunrise could paint the sky Surgical
Appliance Pink.' Nevertheless, it was beautiful. --The Thief of Time
  #216  
Old December 26th 17, 03:18 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In article , Lewis
wrote:

The Newton used a database of objects for file storage, no paths
involved at all.


not only no paths, but no files.

it was as you say, a database of objects.
  #217  
Old December 26th 17, 04:16 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 07:45:36 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:

In message Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:09:34 -0500, nospam
wrote:


In article , Char Jackson
wrote:

A pathname is not needed to specify a file is not the same thing *at
all* as "a filename is enough to specify a file".

Are you seriously trying to sell that?

Put down the shovel. The hole you're in is deeper than you think.

he's correct.


nonsense.


Yep, you are full of nonsense. You obviously know nothing at all about
file systems.

I already posted a specific example of a way to access a file without
using a path, but that probably confused you. Even teh original poster
troll admitted that there were file systems that didn't use paths at all.

Paths were an innovation in computer systems, before minix added paths
no computers had paths or any sort of hierarchical file system.

The Newton used a database of objects for file storage, no paths
involved at all.


Nice try, dude. Move the goalposts much?

--

Char Jackson
  #218  
Old December 26th 17, 04:24 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
Lewis
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Posts: 390
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In message Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 07:45:36 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:


In message Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:09:34 -0500, nospam
wrote:


In article , Char Jackson
wrote:

A pathname is not needed to specify a file is not the same thing *at
all* as "a filename is enough to specify a file".

Are you seriously trying to sell that?

Put down the shovel. The hole you're in is deeper than you think.

he's correct.


nonsense.


Yep, you are full of nonsense. You obviously know nothing at all about
file systems.

I already posted a specific example of a way to access a file without
using a path, but that probably confused you. Even teh original poster
troll admitted that there were file systems that didn't use paths at all.

Paths were an innovation in computer systems, before minix added paths
no computers had paths or any sort of hierarchical file system.

The Newton used a database of objects for file storage, no paths
involved at all.


Nice try, dude. Move the goalposts much?


There is no goalpost moving. Please read the thread before responding
again, as you obviously didn't do so as yet.


--
Lisa Bonet ate no Basil
  #219  
Old December 26th 17, 05:39 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

[...]
for mac os 9, they claim:
File and folder names may be up to 31 characters in length

that too is false. the limitation is finder, not mac os 9.

[...]

Thanks for the clarification and the reference to other docs.

But once again you ignore context. From the users' POV the 31-character
length is what matters, not what goes on under the hood.


what goes on under the hood is what's being discussed.

So your claim
that it's incorrect misses the point. In fact, your claim is both
correct and incorrect. I'll leave oit to you to resolve the paradox.


there is no paradox. the article is wrong, and you snipped the example
that's *really* wrong.
  #220  
Old December 26th 17, 06:09 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
Char Jackson
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Posts: 10,449
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 15:24:31 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:

In message Char Jackson wrote:
On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 07:45:36 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
wrote:


In message Char Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 25 Dec 2017 18:09:34 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Char Jackson
wrote:

A pathname is not needed to specify a file is not the same thing *at
all* as "a filename is enough to specify a file".

Are you seriously trying to sell that?

Put down the shovel. The hole you're in is deeper than you think.

he's correct.

nonsense.

Yep, you are full of nonsense. You obviously know nothing at all about
file systems.

I already posted a specific example of a way to access a file without
using a path, but that probably confused you. Even teh original poster
troll admitted that there were file systems that didn't use paths at all.

Paths were an innovation in computer systems, before minix added paths
no computers had paths or any sort of hierarchical file system.

The Newton used a database of objects for file storage, no paths
involved at all.


Nice try, dude. Move the goalposts much?


There is no goalpost moving.


LOL

Then I guess we're done here. It's hard to have a conversation with
someone who has no concept of context and continuity, not to mention
very limited concept of the topic being discussed.

--

Char Jackson
  #221  
Old December 26th 17, 11:08 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,718
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

A pathname is not needed to specify a file is not the same thing *at
all* as "a filename is enough to specify a file".

Are you seriously trying to sell that?

Put down the shovel. The hole you're in is deeper than you think.

he's correct.

nonsense.

Yep, you are full of nonsense. You obviously know nothing at all about
file systems.

I already posted a specific example of a way to access a file without
using a path, but that probably confused you. Even teh original poster
troll admitted that there were file systems that didn't use paths at all.

Paths were an innovation in computer systems, before minix added paths
no computers had paths or any sort of hierarchical file system.

The Newton used a database of objects for file storage, no paths
involved at all.


Nice try, dude. Move the goalposts much?


There is no goalpost moving. Please read the thread before responding
again, as you obviously didn't do so as yet.


The thread is about filenames in Mac-OS-X. The subject is about
changing in filenames. The sub-thread is about forbidden characters in
OS-X. The sub-sub-thread is about how to specify a file. Both sub-thread
and sub-sub-thread are about Mac-OS-X. Your tidbits about the history
of filename lists or their functional equivalents is interesting, but
not relevant.


what you're calling 'tidbits' are exactly relevant because they support
the various claims made along the way, including that pathnames are not
needed.

in other words, they're not 'tidbits' at all, but rather supporting
evidence that you're wrong, which explains why you are trying to
dismiss them as irrelevant tidbits.

apparently the concept of no pathnames is new to you. perhaps you might
try to learn about it.

Like nospam, you change the rules (in this case, the scope of the
context) whenever confronted with proof that you've, er, made a mistake.


nobody has changed the rules.
  #222  
Old December 26th 17, 11:08 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In article , Wolf K
wrote:


The Newton used a database of objects for file storage, no paths
involved at all.


not only no paths, but no files.

it was as you say, a database of objects.


I know city that has no streets, only boulevards and avenues.


what you *don't* know is how the newton worked, and instead of learning
about it, you come up with some random response.
  #223  
Old December 26th 17, 11:38 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.system,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.apps
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

But once again you ignore context. From the users' POV the 31-character
length is what matters, not what goes on under the hood.


what goes on under the hood is what's being discussed.


I'm sorry that you are under that impression. More than once the
difference between the human and the OS level has been mentioned. That
was so even before I made that context explicit with "what the human
sees" and "what the OS sees". I don't know if it was you or Lewis that
remarked that filenames were primarily for humans. The implied contrast
is that they are 9at least some of the time) irrelevant under the hood.


file names are for the computer, *not* humans.

humans want to find specific content, e.g., find all photos of mary
taken last year or review the letters to elon musk from last month.

the actual internal file name makes *no* difference whatsoever to a
human. direct file system access is a relic of the past, when computers
were not as powerful, forcing users to deal with its inner workings,
needing to manually organize content, and in some cases, in ways the
computer requires (e.g., extensions).

fortunately, those days are gone. computers are far more powerful now
and direct file system access is no longer needed in most situations,
eventually going away entirely except in very specific circumstances.

the limitation is finder, not mac os 9.


The statement you dispute is true WRT to finder, and false WRT to OS-9.
So your claim "it's false" is both true and false.


as written, it's not true.

finder limits it, but other apps might not.

finder is just another app, although it does have some functionality
not available to third party apps.

you are also ignoring the *other* item i mentioned, that files in os x
cannot begin with a dot, which is very, very wrong.

as i said then, anyone making such a statement should *not* be writing
software for macs in any form, and i'll extend that now to any software
on any platform.

not only is it possible to have files beginning with a dot in mac os x,
but there's even a preference for finder to show them:

http://cdn.osxdaily.com/wp-content/u...-files-shown-m
ac-os-x.jpg
https://cdn3.macworld.co.uk/cmsdata/...-Hidden-Files-
800_thumb800.jpg
https://coderwall-assets-0.s3.amazon...re/file/443/Sc
reen_Shot_2012-08-29_at_1.04.19_PM.png
  #224  
Old December 26th 17, 11:38 PM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

Your assumptions about what I know and don't know are wrong. Of course,
I've forgotten most of that stuff. One does tend to forget stuff one
doesn't use. And one doesn't bother mentioning details that one assumes
are known to one's respondent. Or that are irrelevant in the context of
the conversation.


i'm going by what you write.

you said pathnames are required to find a file. they are not.

proof has been provided.

Like nospam, you change the rules (in this case, the scope of the
context) whenever confronted with proof that you've, er, made a mistake.


nobody has changed the rules.


I apologise for using a different metaphor than you're used to. I'll use
the one that you know:

Every time you someone calls you on an irrelevant or mistaken comment,
you shift the goalposts.


also wrong.

Lewis's claims are true, of course, but they're irrelevant. Hence
supporting evidence is irrelevant, too.


they're very relevant.
  #225  
Old December 27th 17, 12:53 AM posted to comp.sys.mac.apps,alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system
nospam
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Posts: 4,718
Default Can a Macintosh person tell us how to change the name of a file?

In article , Wolf K
wrote:

The Newton used a database of objects for file storage, no paths
involved at all.

not only no paths, but no files.

it was as you say, a database of objects.

I know city that has no streets, only boulevards and avenues.


what you *don't* know is how the newton worked, and instead of learning
about it, you come up with some random response.


"Random response"????

My remark is not random. It was carefully constructed in the hope that
you would have an Aha! moment, for once.


i'm not the one who needs to have an aha moment.

Whether you call them objects, or files, or acorns, or whatever, they
are defined (delimited) chunks of data.


but neither files nor path names, the topic under discussion.

newton soups, as they were called, were *very* different than files.

lumping both together means you don't understand the differences.

....snip...

OK, I think I've widened the scope enough.


translated: you've moved the goalposts.

FYI, I read about the Newton way back then, but I've forgotten the
details. So I refreshed my memory he
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...erating_system


that doesn't say a whole lot, plus finding some random link via google
is not going to make you an expert about newton.

i did more than read about the newton back then. i wrote several newton
apps.

in fact, within days after buying my first newton, i already had my
first gig, thereby paying for said newton and then some. several other
gigs followed.

the newton was *way* ahead of its time.
 




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