PC Dust buildup

In article ,
Leythos wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 00:07:04 -0700, Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:

This is a blower and this blower has no exposed metal parts including
the nozzles, no brush nozzle attachment either. Canned air can leave a
residue which over time can build up.

Any vac, used in any mode (blower/vac), which has a ungrounded hose to
provide the air, can and almost always does, generate static of some
level. The simple physics are that a wand like they provide in those cheap
units is going to give a much higher chance of a bad experience.

I used compressed, dry, air, from a compressor set to 50PSI, when I clean
cases. In a pinch I will use a normal compressor if the air appears to be
clean and water free.

If you are grounded, and holding a nozzle (even a vac hose) at the end, it
would discharge any static, but most people unplug their computer, move
it, open it, and clean it.

If users take proper precautions, ground themselves by touching
something metal before they open the case and wear a static discharge
band as well, they should not have a problem. The danger should be no
greater than the simple process of opening the case to use canned air or
to install a soundcard, graphics card or anything else that requires the
user to open the case.

While I own two static bands, I've never seen anyone else that owns even
one, not in 40 years. The only people I know that own them are people that
have been through ESD training, and not many residential users have :-)


Good advice, above.

I own a static strap and use it if:

I'm working inside on a server with parts cost a week's wage, or
spares are not on hand and I'll be fired if I can't get the system I'm
working on back online by deadline when the dawn comes up.

If the customer is watching me and I don't want any coulda or
hindsight if the server dies a day later. The strap is just for show.

If the part I'm handling costs more than I feel like paying for out of
pocket.

Remeber; Static discharge below the level of perceptability can damage
a component, and the effect can be delayed.





--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.

I agree fully. I should have made that point about properly grounding
yourself in my original post.

--
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol.

Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/


"Leythos" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 00:07:04 -0700, Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:

This is a blower and this blower has no exposed metal parts including
the nozzles, no brush nozzle attachment either. Canned air can leave a
residue which over time can build up.

Any vac, used in any mode (blower/vac), which has a ungrounded hose to
provide the air, can and almost always does, generate static of some
level. The simple physics are that a wand like they provide in those cheap
units is going to give a much higher chance of a bad experience.

I used compressed, dry, air, from a compressor set to 50PSI, when I clean
cases. In a pinch I will use a normal compressor if the air appears to be
clean and water free.

If you are grounded, and holding a nozzle (even a vac hose) at the end, it
would discharge any static, but most people unplug their computer, move
it, open it, and clean it.

If users take proper precautions, ground themselves by touching
something metal before they open the case and wear a static discharge
band as well, they should not have a problem. The danger should be no
greater than the simple process of opening the case to use canned air or
to install a soundcard, graphics card or anything else that requires the
user to open the case.

While I own two static bands, I've never seen anyone else that owns even
one, not in 40 years. The only people I know that own them are people that
have been through ESD training, and not many residential users have :-)

--

remove 999 in order to email me

We have serious dust problems in our area. There's never a time when I can
go beyond 2 or 3 weeks max. without cleaning all the computers in the house.
I built the computers we use and 1 has 5 cooling fans, 1 has 6 cooling fans
and mine has 8. So there is a huge amount of air movement in these
computers. Hence, dust buildup is very frequent. In my opinion dust is rated
as one of the top enemies of technology. It is a great friend to heat and
the heat is a great enemey to computers.

I've tried every method I can imagine to find the best solution to clean
them out. Canned air....try using around 6 cans for 3 computers every 2 or 3
weeks....way expensive. So I bought a 2 or 3 gallon air tank at WalMart for
around $17. It takes a quarter to fill it and with some serious brushing
with a good auto parts brush, the tank will do 2 computers. There has never
been an issue with moisture using this method.

But.....I've finally found the best solution I believe possible for cleaning
the dust and dirt out. I remove both side panels, take it outside on the
workbench or picnic table and blow it out with my leaf blower. Go ahead and
laugh, everyone that I've told gets a good laugh about it.....but believe me
it works beautifully.

Always check to make sure you don't have any loose components or such before
you start. I have my wife hold the cooling fan blades with the handle of my
cleaning brush to prevent them from spinning.....I'm afraid they may spin so
fast it could create possible damage. After cleaning the area around the fan
blade she is holding, she moves her brush handle on to the next cooling fan,
etc.

You have zero moisture to worry about. You have zero brushing to do and
every spec of dust and dirt is removed. Even from those areas like inside
the cd trays, etc. that you had a hard time getting to before.

YES.....let me be perfectly clear, YOU MUST USE CAUTION! Make no mistake
about it, if you're not careful you can do some very serious damage. It's
much like going to the car wash and using a very high pressure sprayer, any
knucklehead knows you don't put the tip of the wand right up to the car
surface....doh...you'll be removing paint, not the dirt and mud. Just
remember you have total control over the leaf blower and you don't have to
stick it right against the graphics card or power supply to remove the
debris. And you don't have to rev it up like you're getting ready to race,
just take your time and get the feel of it and you'll quickly realize how
and where to use that trigger finger. Oh, with this method it takes longer
to remove and replace the sides than the actual cleaning job.

Take care and good luck, Rob.

Ahhhhhh......wow, you are so right. I never even thought about all the
potential static electricity all the brushing creates.

Great point and thank you very much for that post. That's the great part
about these forums, you can learn something new no matter what level of
experience you have.

Take care, Rob.

Piece of air conditioner foam filter taped over the fan hole! Works great.

--
Regards,

Richard Urban

aka Crusty (-: Old B@stard :-)

If you knew as much as you thought you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!


"Newbie" wrote in message
...
I have your basic ATX form setup with one side fan, 1 rear. I don't have
any additional fans beyond this.

I've noticed my side fan is a culprit for quick dust buildup.

Anyone have any suggestions for cutting the dust buildup?

Leythos wrote:

While I own two static bands, I've never seen anyone else that owns even
one, not in 40 years. The only people I know that own them are people that
have been through ESD training, and not many residential users have :-)

We can still try - I sell PC components on ebay, and all ship with a
disposable strap and a note saying the DOA warranty is void if the buyer
fails to use it.

Rob wrote:

But.....I've finally found the best solution I believe possible for cleaning
the dust and dirt out. I remove both side panels, take it outside on the
workbench or picnic table and blow it out with my leaf blower. Go ahead and
laugh, everyone that I've told gets a good laugh about it.....but believe me
it works beautifully.

I take them outside and use the shop-vac on blow - same idea, works
great, but I wear an anti-static strap and hold the end of the nozzle
just in case.

Always check to make sure you don't have any loose components or such before
you start. I have my wife hold the cooling fan blades with the handle of my
cleaning brush to prevent them from spinning.....I'm afraid they may spin so
fast it could create possible damage. After cleaning the area around the fan
blade she is holding, she moves her brush handle on to the next cooling fan,
etc.

I deliberately spin the fans as fast as possible as it gets the crud off
the underside of the blades without using a brush. I've been doing it
for years, never had a problem with fan damage.

Well, based on everything that was said, I can see there is much a
difference of opinions on this issue.

I do feel that I will try Mr. Michael Solomon's idea of blowing out the case
from the product at Cyberguys.

"Newbie" wrote in message
...
I have your basic ATX form setup with one side fan, 1 rear. I don't have
any additional fans beyond this.

I've noticed my side fan is a culprit for quick dust buildup.

Anyone have any suggestions for cutting the dust buildup?

Newbie, be sure to make note of and pay heed to the issue of static
electricity as mentioned in this thread. Cyberguys also sells antistatic
wrist straps and they are relatively inexpensive. They sell both cord and
cordless. The corded type uses a ground wire that must be attached to
something metal, the cordless type must be put on about 15 minutes prior to
doing any work in order for it to properly discharge static electricity:
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchAll.asp?s=SA

--
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol.

Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/


"Newbie" wrote in message
...
Well, based on everything that was said, I can see there is much a
difference of opinions on this issue.

I do feel that I will try Mr. Michael Solomon's idea of blowing out the
case from the product at Cyberguys.

"Newbie" wrote in message
...
I have your basic ATX form setup with one side fan, 1 rear. I don't have
any additional fans beyond this.

I've noticed my side fan is a culprit for quick dust buildup.

Anyone have any suggestions for cutting the dust buildup?

Good point. Unfortunately, there's not always something around to which you
can attach the ground wire but I agree, the corded type is better.

--
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol.

Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/


"Leythos" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:33:23 -0700, Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:

the cordless type must be put on about 15 minutes prior to doing any
work in order for it to properly discharge static electricity:

I read the description of it on their site, the only place I would use
something like that is sitting at a bench, not leaving the bench, and in a
room that is designed to be static free - in other words, I would not
trust it to protect anyone in a home/soho setting.


--

remove 999 in order to email me

Michael,

So, would this be a good corded antistatic strap?

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/s...search=&child=

"Michael Solomon (MS-MVP)" wrote in message
...
Newbie, be sure to make note of and pay heed to the issue of static
electricity as mentioned in this thread. Cyberguys also sells antistatic
wrist straps and they are relatively inexpensive. They sell both cord and
cordless. The corded type uses a ground wire that must be attached to
something metal, the cordless type must be put on about 15 minutes prior
to doing any work in order for it to properly discharge static
electricity:
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchAll.asp?s=SA

--
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol.

Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/


"Newbie" wrote in message
...
Well, based on everything that was said, I can see there is much a
difference of opinions on this issue.

I do feel that I will try Mr. Michael Solomon's idea of blowing out the
case from the product at Cyberguys.

"Newbie" wrote in message
...
I have your basic ATX form setup with one side fan, 1 rear. I don't have
any additional fans beyond this.

I've noticed my side fan is a culprit for quick dust buildup.

Anyone have any suggestions for cutting the dust buildup?

Yes it would, I thought about that after I pressed send. I was thinking in
terms of most home offices having mostly composite materials which can make
finding a proper ground problematic. Personally, I tend to prefer not to
leave the computer plugged in when opening the system. That said, the case
being metal, could you not attach ground wire to the part of the case you
remove to open it?

--
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol.

Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/


"Leythos" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:10:30 -0700, Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:

Good point. Unfortunately, there's not always something around to which
you can attach the ground wire but I agree, the corded type is better.

If you leave the computer plugged into the wall outlet, with a proper
grounded plug/outlet, the case/PSU should be grounded - touching it will
discharge the static.

--

remove 999 in order to email me

It should be all right but you probably should call cyberguys, I believe
they have a toll free number listed at their website and check with them
about the concerns raised by Leythos.

--
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol.

Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/


"Newbie" wrote in message
...
Michael,

So, would this be a good corded antistatic strap?

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/s...search=&child=

"Michael Solomon (MS-MVP)" wrote in message
...
Newbie, be sure to make note of and pay heed to the issue of static
electricity as mentioned in this thread. Cyberguys also sells antistatic
wrist straps and they are relatively inexpensive. They sell both cord
and cordless. The corded type uses a ground wire that must be attached
to something metal, the cordless type must be put on about 15 minutes
prior to doing any work in order for it to properly discharge static
electricity:
http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/SearchAll.asp?s=SA

--
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol.

Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/


"Newbie" wrote in message
...
Well, based on everything that was said, I can see there is much a
difference of opinions on this issue.

I do feel that I will try Mr. Michael Solomon's idea of blowing out the
case from the product at Cyberguys.

"Newbie" wrote in message
...
I have your basic ATX form setup with one side fan, 1 rear. I don't have
any additional fans beyond this.

I've noticed my side fan is a culprit for quick dust buildup.

Anyone have any suggestions for cutting the dust buildup?

Thanks Leythos and thank you for your contributions to this thread, most
enlightening.

--
In memory of our dear friend, MVP Alex Nichol.

Michael Solomon MS-MVP
Windows Shell/User
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/communities/mvp.aspx
Backup is a PC User's Best Friend
DTS-L.Org: http://www.dts-l.org/


"Leythos" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:08:59 -0700, Michael Solomon (MS-MVP) wrote:

Yes it would, I thought about that after I pressed send. I was thinking
in terms of most home offices having mostly composite materials which
can make finding a proper ground problematic. Personally, I tend to
prefer not to leave the computer plugged in when opening the system.
That said, the case being metal, could you not attach ground wire to the
part of the case you remove to open it?

You can leave the computer plugged into the wall, turn off the power
switch on the PSU itself (there is almost always a switch on the PSU on
quality units) or disconnect the power connections from the MB if you
want, but the safest method is to just allow the electrical ground
provided by the PSU to the case, to remain in place so that you don't have
to purchase/do anything, it's already grounded.

In almost 30 years of working with electronics I've never fried anything
with static, and with computers being left connected to the power (with
power off) I've never damaged one yet.

--

remove 999 in order to email me

In article ,
Leythos wrote:
I got an email about using one of those little computer vac's and blower
units to clean systems, here is what I responded - in case anyone is
interested.

The question was about this device:
Can you recommend the best antistatic products and steps I should use when
I use this product below?

http://www.cyberguys.com/templates/s...&search=&child


Here is my reply:

There isn't enough information available for the product you selected for
me to know if the unit it going to generate static. What I can see is that
it uses a standard 2 prong electrical cord, which means that it does not
have the "earth ground" prong (the third one), so that also means that it
might not properly discharge any static if it were to create it.

When it comes to static and cleaning, I use a poof-can or a real air
compressor - the cans are metal and if I'm grounded I know that the can is
too (since it conducts through my body). With the compressor, it has a
metal fitting at the end of the hose, so the same applies, if I'm grounded
so is the air exiting the nozzle.

When it comes to cleaning a computer, via air (inside or out) or via rag
(only on the outside of the case), I just leave the electrical cord
connected, turn the power off at the PSU and on the front - remember, the
new P4 units almost always have power to the motherboard unless you can
turn off the power on the PSU (the switch I was talking about)

If you look at this power supply, just below the AV power connector there
is a small black flip-switch, this would turn off the power and stop the
supply to the motherboard:
http://images.tigerdirect.com/skuima...-4000-main.jpg at the
same time, it leaves the computer properly grounded so you can use it as a
good static discharge point (the case).

When I hand ANYONE an electronic part, even if they have an ESD strap, I
always touch them with my finger first - this puts us at the same charge
level, so the part I'm handing them doesn't get zapped.

When I put a new motherboard in a computer, I take the box (unopened) to
the computer, touch the case frequently while opening the box and the ESD
bag containing the motherboard, then only handle the motherboard directly
once I've touched the case while also holding the ESD bag right before
removing the motherboard. I touch the case frequently while working with
the motherboard in order to maintain a static free install.


Moving air, by definition, creates electrostatic buildup. Grounding
the vac doesn't prevent it and grounding the vac and the PC just
provides an easy path for the discharge. Static below the threshold of
perception can damage IC components and the effects of damage may not
be immediate. An all-metal vac and a wire between the nozzle and the
chassis would probbaly be safe but I've never seen that.

I use a can of air instead of a power vac and use a wrist strap on any
part or system when I may get fired if it ceases to function.

I can't say with any expertese why a can of compressed air is safer
but I'll guess it's because (a) it's used intermittantly and
accumulates very little charge (b) there is no electric motor with
arcing commutator brushes that generate lots of lose electrons and (c)
It's cold and these is enough local humidity to dissapate the
charge. Maybe all three.

I agree that static damage is unlikely, but why take chances.


--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.