Help for Neighbor?

Nil brought next idea :
On 02 Aug 2013, Richard Rose wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

Give me one good reason why I should be an unpaid bug tester for M$?

Sounds like you think Microsoft is covertly watching you post to Usenet
newsgroups, waiting for you the SuperHacker to reveal the previously
unknown bugs in their APIs which you alone have uncovered, which they
will then use to expand their evil empire and take over the universe.

You now have two choices: you can promise to keep those bugs secret and
know you have saved the world from destruction, or you can divulge them
and spend your life hiding under a variety of assumed identities.

You better decide quick, before they hunt you down and make you an
offer you can't refuse.

LOL, so little you know!

Gene E. Bloch wrote on 02/08/2013 :
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 20:30:20 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

It happens that Nil formulated :
On 02 Aug 2013, Richard Rose wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

Nil wrote :
On 01 Aug 2013, Richard Rose wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

And you dont have to contend with bugs with MS cant fix that go
back Windows 3.1

Such as what?

In other words, you can't name any.

Give me one good reason why I should be an unpaid bug tester for M$?

I don't recall that anyone was asking you to be a bug tester. The
responders were asking you to list some of the bugs that you claim
exist.

It definitely seems to me that those questions were rather more
reasonable than your responses to them.

I'm not going to divulge everything I know, its as simple as that, for
reasons you wont get to know about either.

On 8/1/13 3:01 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:51:22 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

I just don't understand the idea that you *have* to have MS Office,
Adobe Photoshop, Corel Draw, etc. And it frustrates me to no end! LOL


With some exceptions, I by and large agree with you. But see below.


Unless a program has a specific function/feature you need, there are a
myriad of programs out there that can replace any of those programs.
And many are free and cross platform.


There at least two things about that statement that I don't agree
with:

1. If I have invested a substantial amount of time and trouble
learning how to use a specific program, and learning how to use a new
different one means I would now have to expend a lot of time and
trouble all over again, making a change is not at all attractive.
Photoshop is probably a good example of that.

That probably depends on the "other" program. Kingsoft Office Free
mimics the interface of Word 2003. So I doubt there would be much
difference when it comes to the learning curve. Libre Office, though,
does have a fairly different interface, but after learning where the
various options were, I didn't have that much problem. Certainly not
the amount of time I think you are talking about.

2. If I have a history of data in some particular format and there is
no other program that can read and use it properly, I would never want
to make a change. My Quicken history is what I have in mind.

I've never used Quicken, but I've heard their data is difficult to deal
with if you want to change.

I don't know what Linux programs are available and what they can do
and what they can't do. Perhaps my examples of Photoshop and Quicken
aren't good ones, and there are Linux replacements that would satisfy
me. But they were only meant as examples of my points. They might be
poor examples, but if so, there are undoubtedly other good ones.

Agreed. But, you don't know about the difficulties you may, or may not,
have with an alternative until you actually sit down and use an
alternative for more than a few minutes.

No one *needs* a specific program.


Generally true, but we are all different, and that doesn't apply to
everyone. Some people, for all practical purposes, do need a specific
program.


All that is needed is for the
program you are using to have the features you need/want, and to be able
to read the other guy's files.


Those are the main things that are needed, but they are not all. See
above.


Look at the logical end... If it got to the point where MS Word was the
only word processor available anywhere. MS could make all kinds of
changes you don't like, bugs they never fix, etc. Now what's your option?


I'm not at all a big fan of Microsoft Word. Instead I use WordPerfect,
and I think it's a much better program. But I also know that a good
part of my thinking WordPerfect is much better is that it's what I
know the best and am most familiar with. If I were forced to make a
change (for example, by changing operating systems), I would be a very
unhappy camper


One thing I'm beginning to relearn from my 8-bit days, you simply have
to find and try out different programs that do a particular category of
work (i.e. word processors) until you find the one that does what you
need, and fits you.


On that statement, I'm with you 100% We all have different needs and
different tastes, and what's best for one of us isn't necessarily the
best for all of us.


Mac OS X 10.8.4
Firefox 22.0
Thunderbird 17.0.7
LibreOffice 4.0.4.2


As an example of what I said in the last paragraph above, I don't use
any of those. We are completely different here. And that's fine--those
might be best for you, but they are not what's best for me. Neither of
us is right; we are just different. Here are my equivalents

Windows 8
Maxthon 3 (but I've been leaning toward SlimBrowser and may
switch over to it)
Microsoft Outlook 2013 for e-mail, Forte Agent 6.00 for a newsreader
WordPerfect X6 for a word processor, Microsoft Office 2013 for most
other Office functions

I've got Win8 in a VM to learn about it, but haven't had the time.
Maxthon in a Win 7 VM. I don't care for the "lets all move to the
cloud" idea of Apple, and now MS. So, won't be using software that does
that, for the most part. I'd go to WP if there was a Mac version, as I
agree, it's better that Word, or was when I could use it.

As for general office functions, I no longer have the need for a full
blown package. So I can't justify the cost of purchasing a full package
any longer.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.4
Firefox 22.0
Thunderbird 17.0.7
LibreOffice 4.0.4.2

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 07:11:45 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

On 8/1/13 3:01 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:51:22 -0600, Ken Springer
wrote:

I just don't understand the idea that you *have* to have MS Office,
Adobe Photoshop, Corel Draw, etc. And it frustrates me to no end! LOL


With some exceptions, I by and large agree with you. But see below.


Unless a program has a specific function/feature you need, there are a
myriad of programs out there that can replace any of those programs.
And many are free and cross platform.


There at least two things about that statement that I don't agree
with:

1. If I have invested a substantial amount of time and trouble
learning how to use a specific program, and learning how to use a new
different one means I would now have to expend a lot of time and
trouble all over again, making a change is not at all attractive.
Photoshop is probably a good example of that.

That probably depends on the "other" program.


Yes, my point exactly. Not all programs, but some (as I said,
Photoshop is probably a good example of that). That's why I disagreed
with "Unless a program has a specific function/feature you need, there
are a myriad of programs out there that can replace any of those
programs." I was pointing out that with some programs there are things
other than "a specific function/feature " that makes it difficult to
replace.


2. If I have a history of data in some particular format and there is
no other program that can read and use it properly, I would never want
to make a change. My Quicken history is what I have in mind.

I've never used Quicken, but I've heard their data is difficult to deal
with if you want to change.


Then I guess you agree with my point that "Unless a program has a
specific function/feature you need, there are a myriad of programs out
there that can replace any of those programs" is an oversimplication.
It may be correct for some people, but not for everybody.

--
Ken Blake

"John" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 17:59:58 -0400, Nil
wrote:

On 02 Aug 2013, Richard Rose wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

Give me one good reason why I should be an unpaid bug tester for M$?

((..omitted..))
Fine ho's and a pink caddie with leopard skin seat covers.
(What, exactly *is* a pink caddie? Something like a box for
keeping tea leaves?)

((..remainder omitted..))

Pink Cadillac. Elvis Presley, among others, owned one. He bought it used,
already painted pink by a previous owner.

NOT getting one would probably motivate me to do something, but I can't see
receiving one as doing it for me.

- Bill

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:04:10 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote on 02/08/2013 :
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 20:30:20 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

It happens that Nil formulated :
On 02 Aug 2013, Richard Rose wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

Nil wrote :
On 01 Aug 2013, Richard Rose wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

And you dont have to contend with bugs with MS cant fix that go
back Windows 3.1

Such as what?

In other words, you can't name any.

Give me one good reason why I should be an unpaid bug tester for M$?

I don't recall that anyone was asking you to be a bug tester. The
responders were asking you to list some of the bugs that you claim
exist.

It definitely seems to me that those questions were rather more
reasonable than your responses to them.

I'm not going to divulge everything I know, its as simple as that, for
reasons you wont get to know about either.

Somehow I can't help but believe you already have divulged everything
you know :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:04:10 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

I'm not going to divulge everything I know, its as simple as
that, for reasons you wont get to know about either.

Somehow I can't help but believe you already have divulged
everything you know :-)

I agree and I also stuck "Richard Rose" in my Bozo Bin with the rest of
the trolls.

I hope they play nice together......


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 16:20:53 -0700, XS11E wrote:

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:04:10 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

I'm not going to divulge everything I know, its as simple as
that, for reasons you wont get to know about either.

Somehow I can't help but believe you already have divulged
everything you know :-)

I agree and I also stuck "Richard Rose" in my Bozo Bin with the rest of
the trolls.

I hope they play nice together......

Can you post a video of them playing? I'd love to see that.

In the meantime, I'm starting with a mental picture of 17 clowns piling
out of a 2CV...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:34:00 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 16:20:53 -0700, XS11E wrote:

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:04:10 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

I'm not going to divulge everything I know, its as simple as
that, for reasons you wont get to know about either.

Somehow I can't help but believe you already have divulged
everything you know :-)

I agree and I also stuck "Richard Rose" in my Bozo Bin with the rest of
the trolls.

I hope they play nice together......

Can you post a video of them playing? I'd love to see that.

In the meantime, I'm starting with a mental picture of 17 clowns piling
out of a 2CV...

Although I might have really been thinking of a 4CV :-)

More HP, smaller car...

It's been too long - my memory no longer is accurate about these two
items, and Google isn't jogging it too well.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 15:59:37 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
wrote:

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:04:10 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

I'm not going to divulge everything I know, its as simple as that, for
reasons you wont get to know about either.

Somehow I can't help but believe you already have divulged everything
you know :-)


LOL! I agree.

--
Ken Blake

On 8/2/13 3:38 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:51:22 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

One thing I'm beginning to relearn from my 8-bit days, you simply
have to find and try out different programs that do a particular
category of work (i.e. word processors) until you find the one
that does what you need, and fits you.

Unfortunately when you come out of your cave into the real world and
work with others, you find that it's important to use compatible
applications so that information and work can be shared. Like it or
not MS-Office is the default standard for this.

For me, when I come out of my cave, I find people other than those in
the corporate environment. Each and every situation is unique, so it's
impossible to ever make general statements any more, even in a corporate
environment.

As I noted in another post, my observations are not limited to the
corporate world.

What is the standard for you may not be the standard for the person next
to you.


--
Ken

Mac OS X 10.8.4
Firefox 22.0
Thunderbird 17.0.7
LibreOffice 4.0.4.2

"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

On Sat, 3 Aug 2013 16:34:00 -0700, Gene E. Bloch wrote:

In the meantime, I'm starting with a mental picture of 17 clowns
piling out of a 2CV...

Although I might have really been thinking of a 4CV :-)

More HP, smaller car...

It's been too long - my memory no longer is accurate about these
two items, and Google isn't jogging it too well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_2CV

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_4CV



--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

on 03/08/2013, Gene E. Bloch supposed :
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:04:10 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

Gene E. Bloch wrote on 02/08/2013 :
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 20:30:20 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

It happens that Nil formulated :
On 02 Aug 2013, Richard Rose wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

Nil wrote :
On 01 Aug 2013, Richard Rose wrote in
alt.comp.os.windows-8:

And you dont have to contend with bugs with MS cant fix that go
back Windows 3.1

Such as what?

In other words, you can't name any.

Give me one good reason why I should be an unpaid bug tester for M$?

I don't recall that anyone was asking you to be a bug tester. The
responders were asking you to list some of the bugs that you claim
exist.

It definitely seems to me that those questions were rather more
reasonable than your responses to them.

I'm not going to divulge everything I know, its as simple as that, for
reasons you wont get to know about either.

Somehow I can't help but believe you already have divulged everything
you know :-)

Believe what you like.

XS11E formulated on Sunday :
"Gene E. Bloch" wrote:

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:04:10 +0100, Richard Rose wrote:

I'm not going to divulge everything I know, its as simple as
that, for reasons you wont get to know about either.

Somehow I can't help but believe you already have divulged
everything you know :-)

I agree and I also stuck "Richard Rose" in my Bozo Bin with the rest of
the trolls.

I hope they play nice together......

MS Fanbois are so funny, are you on the payroll to help manage the
reputation of MS or dont they bother managing their reps on the
newsgroups becuase they are considered too geeky?

Whoops forgot I'm in your bozo bin guess I wont get a reply then
asumming you are not all the same sock puppets!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 19:28:23 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

On 8/2/13 3:38 AM, mechanic wrote:
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 11:51:22 -0600, Ken Springer wrote:

One thing I'm beginning to relearn from my 8-bit days, you simply
have to find and try out different programs that do a particular
category of work (i.e. word processors) until you find the one
that does what you need, and fits you.

Unfortunately when you come out of your cave into the real world and
work with others, you find that it's important to use compatible
applications so that information and work can be shared. Like it or
not MS-Office is the default standard for this.

For me, when I come out of my cave, I find people other than
those in the corporate environment. Each and every situation is
unique, so it's impossible to ever make general statements any
more, even in a corporate environment.

As I noted in another post, my observations are not limited to
the corporate world.

What is the standard for you may not be the standard for the
person next to you.

I wasn't talking specifically about corporate use, although that is
important for setting default standards of file sharing too. If
you're happy with Abiword or some other toy word processor good luck
to you. If you're not producing documents with MS-Office (or
possibly Frame) you will find a lot of push-back in the real world
when you come to exchange or edit them co-operatively. As this is a
windows-8 group I don't think people here would mind spending silly
money on software to do the job.