new computer question

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

What unknown functions can be missing from a power supply
if one reads the label. You sound like a person that wants to
put forth no effort and wants someone else to do things for you.


But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

"Papa" wrote in message
...
Well, you have thrown around that term, "missing essential
functions" a
bunch of times. Yet you never say exactly what those functions are.
Not too
credible, to say the least. I really doubt if you even know.

By the way, unless you love getting spam, you should not use your
real email
address in NG posts. That's the mark of a "newbie".

These NG's are overran with know-it-all newbies with their proprietary
boxen.

Ain't that the truth! ;)

Since Papa did not like specs from Intel, then he was asked
to provide a URL for AMD power supply spec. He did not. I am
still waiting for his URL. But based upon the technical merit
of his last post, I doubt he has ever seen a power supply
specification.

Exampled was one essential power supply function. It was
intentionally left for Papa to name this or any other
essential power supply function:
... short together all the DC voltage outputs and power up.
Power supply must not be damaged.

Apparently Papa does not even recognize the example as a
essential function of all power supplies. Instead he
disparages:
Yet you never say exactly what those functions are. Not too
credible, to say the least. I really doubt if you even know.

Papa did not even know that some power supplies don't even
meet defacto standards of 30 years ago. Provided: that one
essential power supply function. From Intel specs:
3.2.4 Power Limit
Under shrot circuit or overload conditions, no output shall
exceed 240 VA unde any conditions including single component
fault conditions, per IEC 60950 requirements.
...
3.4.2 Short-circuit Protection
... The power supply shall shut down and latch off for shorting
the +3.3 VDC, +5 VDC, or +12 VDC rails to return or any other
rail. Shorts between the +5 VSB shall not cause any damage to
the power supply. ... The power supply shall be capable of
withstanding a continuous short-circuit to the output without
damage or overstress to the unit under the input conditions
specified in Sections 3.1.

Papa is correct. I did not name the essential function. I
simply exampled an essential function and let Papa name that
function. Instead Papa did not even recognize it as an
essential function - and posted:
One, there is no such thing as a modern computer power supply
that lacks some "essential functions".

Papa does not even know of essential functions that must be
in a computer power supply; even when one was exampled right
before him. Unfortunately he is too typical of the many who
recommend computers and computer components. Too many
computer 'experts' don't even know what basic and essential
functions must be included in a power supply. But they would
even recommend a power supply anyway. No wonder jobs are
leaving America to where people first learn technology before
becoming an 'expert'.

A benchmark for identifying the superior computer
manufacturers - they provide comprehensive diagnostics. This
benchmark eliminates many clone computer assemblers who too
often don't even know of essential functions required in a
power supply.

Provided was an example of an essential power supply
function. Papa could not name it - or any other essential
function. Other essential functions would even be provided in
box with a minimally acceptable power supply. But specs are
not provided with supplies that are missing essential
functions. All Papa had to do is list one item from that spec
sheet. He could not even do that - which is why he 'attacked
the messenger'.

RB: A simple benchmark (comprehensive diagnostics) was
provided. Furthermore, another has been used to demonstrate
that many recommendation come without even basic technical
knowledge. Can they even name one essential function of an
ATX computer power supply? If not, then suspect the
credibility of their recommendation. Good luck in your quest
for a better machine.

Papa wrote:
Well, you have thrown around that term, "missing essential
functions" a bunch of times. Yet you never say exactly what those
functions are. Not too credible, to say the least. I really doubt
if you even know.

By the way, unless you love getting spam, you should not use your
real email address in NG posts. That's the mark of a "newbie".

You will note that I mentioned that YOU choose the components that you want
in your computer. What part of that did you miss? That includes the power
supply of your choice.

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/dellconverter.html . The large
companies use proprietary components, try replacing a power supply and fry
your board. If they have changed, I am unaware of it but then, I really
don't care since I don't purchase them, eh. I do know that PC Power and
Cooling lists Dell power supplies separately. You really need to do more
research before you speak. http://www.hardwareguys.com/dellwarn.html
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pro...lies/selector/

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

You will note that I mentioned that YOU choose the components that you want
in your computer. What part of that did you miss? That includes the power
supply of your choice.

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/dellconverter.html . The large
companies use proprietary components, try replacing a power supply and fry
your board. If they have changed, I am unaware of it but then, I really
don't care since I don't purchase them, eh. I do know that PC Power and
Cooling lists Dell power supplies separately. You really need to do more
research before you speak. http://www.hardwareguys.com/dellwarn.html
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pro...lies/selector/

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

You will note that I mentioned that YOU choose the components that you want
in your computer. What part of that did you miss? That includes the power
supply of your choice.

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/dellconverter.html . The large
companies use proprietary components, try replacing a power supply and fry
your board. If they have changed, I am unaware of it but then, I really
don't care since I don't purchase them, eh. I do know that PC Power and
Cooling lists Dell power supplies separately. You really need to do more
research before you speak. http://www.hardwareguys.com/dellwarn.html
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pro...lies/selector/

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

You will note that I mentioned that YOU choose the components that you want
in your computer. What part of that did you miss? That includes the power
supply of your choice.

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/dellconverter.html . The large
companies use proprietary components, try replacing a power supply and fry
your board. If they have changed, I am unaware of it but then, I really
don't care since I don't purchase them, eh. I do know that PC Power and
Cooling lists Dell power supplies separately. You really need to do more
research before you speak. http://www.hardwareguys.com/dellwarn.html
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pro...lies/selector/

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

You will note that I mentioned that YOU choose the components that you want
in your computer. What part of that did you miss? That includes the power
supply of your choice.

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/dellconverter.html . The large
companies use proprietary components, try replacing a power supply and fry
your board. If they have changed, I am unaware of it but then, I really
don't care since I don't purchase them, eh. I do know that PC Power and
Cooling lists Dell power supplies separately. You really need to do more
research before you speak. http://www.hardwareguys.com/dellwarn.html
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pro...lies/selector/

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

You will note that I mentioned that YOU choose the components that you want
in your computer. What part of that did you miss? That includes the power
supply of your choice.

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/dellconverter.html . The large
companies use proprietary components, try replacing a power supply and fry
your board. If they have changed, I am unaware of it but then, I really
don't care since I don't purchase them, eh. I do know that PC Power and
Cooling lists Dell power supplies separately. You really need to do more
research before you speak. http://www.hardwareguys.com/dellwarn.html
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pro...lies/selector/

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!

You will note that I mentioned that YOU choose the components that you want
in your computer. What part of that did you miss? That includes the power
supply of your choice.

http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/dellconverter.html . The large
companies use proprietary components, try replacing a power supply and fry
your board. If they have changed, I am unaware of it but then, I really
don't care since I don't purchase them, eh. I do know that PC Power and
Cooling lists Dell power supplies separately. You really need to do more
research before you speak. http://www.hardwareguys.com/dellwarn.html
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pro...lies/selector/

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
One major problem with that discount (mom and pop) store is
that their power supplies may be missing essential functions
that were defacto standard even 30 years ago. Those who
believe in free markets always buy the best. IOW buy power
supplies that meet Intel specifications. Those who would
protect the technically naive buy inferior products from
little computer store; whose people never even learned what
those essential power supply functions are.

But again. How to know that little computer store does not
provide a good product. Where are the comprehensive
diagnostics for the system? Not only is power supply missing
essential functions (that could destroy other computer
components), but the little computer store does not provide
comprehensive diagnostics. Just more reasons why the Dell
would be a better product.

mouseyface wrote:
The computer companies, Dell included, are hiring out
tech support overseas putting techs here out of work. (If the
companies here keep sending work overseas soon there will be no
one here to buy anything since no one will be working and they
will wonder why sells have dropped, eh.) When you call for
support you may get a reading from a book and two techs will give
you two different answers for the same problem (one may void your
warranty, that's how bad it can be). There are horror stories
at PC World and various other magazines and web sites about this.
You may get someone whose English is so bad that you can't even
understand them. It isn't what it used to be, that's why I build
my own and have for years (it is easier to return one bad
component).

You may want to try a local computer store (mom and pop variety)
since, lately, they have been getting better scores (PC World).
Make sure that they have been in business for a good while and
that they have a good standing with the BBB. Make sure you get
everything in writing and what the length of the warranty and what
the warranty contains. Make sure of their support. You can pick
and choose your components this way - there on site and it is
generally cheaper. Some will give you a discount if you are
non-profit.

My opinion only!