Avoid 10 !

"Gene Wirchenko" wrote

| Microsoft dropped support for 16-bit applications. I do not call
| that being very good with backward compatibility.
|

And I can't hook up a typewriter to my
computer's PS2 port. Oh, well. But I can
write VB6 software that runs on virtually every
currently running Windows computer, back to
Win95, with no support files needed. If I were
programming on a Mac I'd b targetting only the
last two versions. God help any Mac user who
wants software to run on a 3-4 year old machine.

Each bitness requires a shim to run the earlier
version, as I expect you know. Win-64 has to have
built-in functionality to adapt to Win-32. Likewise
with Win-32 to Win-16. In other words, Microsoft
didn't break anything. They just didn't build in support
for Win16. I don't know how much trouble that
would have been. But they have to draw the
line somewhere. Software circa Win3.1 can't
be any more than a novelty these days.

In article
wrote:

Anyone with half a brain, would have stayed with 7, which was and is
optimal. I did.

And, since you don't have any direct experience with Win10, you don't
realize that many of these comments come from the relatively few
"regulars" who do really stupid things with their Win10 systems thinking
that they should be functionally like XP. The rest of us who have
multiple Win10 systems with no such issues just shake our heads at those
comments and keep working.

I adjusted really fast. As I did from every version since 95. Working
with os/2 at work was hard !!!


KenW

Oh please.

Most Win 10 users do not know what they are doing and use the very
minimal capability of this overly complicated OS.

With the exception of maybe corporate users that have IT folks down the
hall.

MS keeps changing the user interface as an example of poor ergonomics.
You have to relearn the OS all over again each time a now major release
comes out.

Although some deep components might not change much, they way you get to
them are totally different.

We should all go back to CP/M !!!

On 12/01/2018 21:17, Freely wrote:


We should all go back to CP/M !!!


Don't be silly. You should all be going back to basics by starting with
paper and pencils; Computers should be left to Chinese and Indians who
are highly educated and all we have are people like you and SteveGG.



--
With over 600 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

On 01/12/2018 04:10 PM, KenW wrote:
I adjusted really fast. As I did from every version since 95. Working
with os/2 at work was hard !!!


KenW
I got a copy of that at a convention many moons ago. Won some game
lottery. Probably version 1.0 :-)
I tossed it as fast as I could. That might have been about the time of
win 3.1? Anyway yes, I agree, it seemed way too hard, but then I was
oh so naive on OSs.

wrote

Starting with the introduction of 10, I posted ( repeatedly ) for
anyone to give me one good reason to "upgrade" from 7 to 10. So far
nobody has been able to do that.

I've noticed the same thing. I join in here because
I write Windows software and because I like to keep
track of developments. In other words, as a
programmer and as a tweaker. I also need to know
these things because I help friends and family.

What I've noticed is that there are mostly just a few
regulars. Most of them are just experimenting and
not using Win10 as their primary system. And many
of the questions are things like:

"That latest update just screwed me. What do I
do?"

That's in the category of, "How do I survive this
thing?" rather than, "How can I better use this thing?"

Ditto on all the above!

On the other hand, at some point you won't be
able to get Win7 or hardware that supports it. Then
you'll have to face a decision about using Microsoft
rental spyware as an unpaid beta tester or moving
to Linux or Mac. At this point there's no clear way
ahead to maintain what most Windows users consider
to be the advantages of Windows: Lots of software
combined with lots of control.

Already bought Linux Mint OS and looking seriously at Mac! I elected to 'dump'
Win10 in favour of going back to Win7 because Win10 didn't like my 3rd party
OCXs. For 8.1/10 I use VMware. My daughter bought the Win10 machine and so far
has no complaints.

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

"GS" wrote

| Already bought Linux Mint OS and looking seriously at Mac! I elected to
'dump'
| Win10 in favour of going back to Win7 because Win10 didn't like my 3rd
party
| OCXs. For 8.1/10 I use VMware. My daughter bought the Win10 machine and so
far
| has no complaints.

As some have pointed out, it's probably not a big
deal for people who use it only for basic things.
Though they might feel differently if they get a
bad update or end up waiting a long time for updates
to install.

I wonder about the latter: It used to be
people complained about waiting 40 seconds to boot.
People would leave their computers always on. They'd
buy an SSD. Anything to avoid that endless 40
seconds. Now many seem to be putting up with
much longer waits but don't complain because
it's an official update?

I've always thought of Linux like a car kit and
Mac like a sportscar. The former is cheap and
flexible, but you have to be ready to always
have dirty hands as you adjust this or that thing
that's not quite finished. The latter is well made
and attractive. Good for driving along the beach
and making eyes at young ladies. But it's also
expensive, restrictive and limited. Don't try to
carry more than 1 bag of groceries or drive in
the snow.

Windows has always been like a decent, normal
car. Not incredible, but dependable and flexible.
Now it's turning into a bloated, spyware taxi.
But I still don't have the stomach for a car
kit or a Corvette.

"GS" wrote

Already bought Linux Mint OS and looking seriously at Mac! I elected to
'dump' Win10 in favour of going back to Win7 because Win10 didn't like my
3rd party OCXs. For 8.1/10 I use VMware. My daughter bought the Win10
machine and so far has no complaints.

As some have pointed out, it's probably not a big
deal for people who use it only for basic things.
Though they might feel differently if they get a
bad update or end up waiting a long time for updates
to install.

I wonder about the latter: It used to be
people complained about waiting 40 seconds to boot.
People would leave their computers always on. They'd
buy an SSD. Anything to avoid that endless 40
seconds. Now many seem to be putting up with
much longer waits but don't complain because
it's an official update?

I've always thought of Linux like a car kit and
Mac like a sportscar. The former is cheap and
flexible, but you have to be ready to always
have dirty hands as you adjust this or that thing
that's not quite finished. The latter is well made
and attractive. Good for driving along the beach
and making eyes at young ladies. But it's also
expensive, restrictive and limited. Don't try to
carry more than 1 bag of groceries or drive in
the snow.

Windows has always been like a decent, normal
car. Not incredible, but dependable and flexible.
Now it's turning into a bloated, spyware taxi.
But I still don't have the stomach for a car
kit or a Corvette.

I love your attitude!

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 13:31:11 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:06:46 -0800, Gene Wirchenko
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 11:32:09 -0700, Ken Blake
wrote:

[snip]

I won't do that, because if I did, your reply would be "that's not a
good reason."

Maybe, but your idea of a good reason might not be a good reason
for someone else. The latest is not always the greatest.

I agree with both those statements, especially the first one; we are
all different and have different likes and dislikes.

Great. Some on both sides see only their side as valid.

But I still won't do it, simply because anyone who pasts a message
entitled "Avoid 10 !" saying "Starting with the introduction of 10, I
posted ( repeatedly ) for anyone to give me one good reason to
"upgrade" from 7 to 10. So far nobody has been able to do that" is
highly unlikely to accept as a good reason anything anyone says.
Clearly, his mind is already made up.

Well, I really would like to see a good reason. For me, there
does not seem to be one. That means that I am going to stick with my
solution which works for me.

If 10 works for others, fine by me.

Pick your poison.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 15:31:49 -0500, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Gene Wirchenko" wrote

| Microsoft dropped support for 16-bit applications. I do not call
| that being very good with backward compatibility.
|

And I can't hook up a typewriter to my
computer's PS2 port. Oh, well. But I can
write VB6 software that runs on virtually every
currently running Windows computer, back to
Win95, with no support files needed. If I were
programming on a Mac I'd b targetting only the
last two versions. God help any Mac user who
wants software to run on a 3-4 year old machine.

I was at a Mac meeting on Monday. Someone described doing just
that but with a machine that was about nine years old. It was a
high-end laptop at the time it came out which might have softened the
difficulty, but nine years.

Each bitness requires a shim to run the earlier
version, as I expect you know. Win-64 has to have
built-in functionality to adapt to Win-32. Likewise
with Win-32 to Win-16. In other words, Microsoft
didn't break anything. They just didn't build in support
for Win16. I don't know how much trouble that
would have been. But they have to draw the
line somewhere. Software circa Win3.1 can't
be any more than a novelty these days.

Yes, it can be.

That it might well not be needed by you does not mean that it is
not needed by others.

Microsoft's XP Mode system does not work properly on my Windows 7
Professional system despite multiple tries. And it does not work --
by design -- on my laptop which has Windows 7 Home. This is not
backwards compatibility; it is backward combatability.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

"Gene Wirchenko" wrote

| I was at a Mac meeting on Monday. Someone described doing just
| that but with a machine that was about nine years old. It was a
| high-end laptop at the time it came out which might have softened the
| difficulty, but nine years.
|

But isn't that very much the exception? My
understanding is that Apple only supports 2
versions back, which is basically 2 years back.
And their fan base don't mind because most
of them want an excuse to buy new stuff.
The vast majority of software on Windows still
supports XP, now 17 years old.

| Microsoft's XP Mode system does not work properly on my Windows 7
| Professional system despite multiple tries. And it does not work --
| by design -- on my laptop which has Windows 7 Home. This is not
| backwards compatibility; it is backward combatability.
|

Yes. I haven't tried to use it but I'd guess
it's really more of a slight wrapper than an
actual compatibility mode. I remember debates
about that when Vista came out. The API
function GetVersionEx can be called to find out
what Windows version your software is running
on. But with Vista it started lying. For
"compatibility". If the software was run in compa
t mode GetVersionEx would return the compat
version! But lying to the software, of course,
doesn't cure anything. It just makes the
software look bad.
I had to write my own function to find the
real version. Then if my software was running
on Vista/7 and I hadn't yet updated it to support
those versions, I'd have it quit with a message.
The other option was to accept Microsoft's new
rules and have my software be untested at best
and malfunctioning at worst.

In other words, the compat mode didn't provide
XP compatibility. It just provided a slight wrapper
to make Vista/7 seem like XP by doing things
like lying with GetVersionEx and transparently
rerouting operations with folders that had moved.

I don't know all the details. I just made sure
none of my software would work until I'd got
around to updating and testing.

On 2018-01-12, wrote:
Anyone with half a brain, would have stayed with 7, which was and is
optimal. I did. I occasionally peruse this group to see what I'm
missing. Whew ! ...

Windows 10 in its default, out-of-the-box state is obnoxious as hell.
In fact, setting up a new computer the other day I found myself screaming
"Shut the f*** up Cortana!!!" (I really, really hate the bitch and don't
want a damned machine to "get to know me.")

However once you strangle Cortana, make sure you're using a local account,
and disable as much of the other built-in egregious crap as possible,
Windows 10 performs well and works just fine.

Primary nits are it's more of a pain to get into safe mode when needed,
and you have little control over updates with the Home version. (Later
versions of Pro do have a pretty decent amount of control.) Also during
intitial setup, Microsoft tries to lead you down the primrose path of
sharing as much data as possible. That stuff should be opt-in rather
than opt-out.

--
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"Gene Wirchenko" wrote

I was at a Mac meeting on Monday. Someone described doing just
that but with a machine that was about nine years old. It was a
high-end laptop at the time it came out which might have softened the
difficulty, but nine years.


But isn't that very much the exception? My
understanding is that Apple only supports 2
versions back, which is basically 2 years back.
And their fan base don't mind because most
of them want an excuse to buy new stuff.
The vast majority of software on Windows still
supports XP, now 17 years old.

Microsoft's XP Mode system does not work properly on my Windows 7
Professional system despite multiple tries. And it does not work --
by design -- on my laptop which has Windows 7 Home. This is not
backwards compatibility; it is backward combatability.


Yes. I haven't tried to use it but I'd guess
it's really more of a slight wrapper than an
actual compatibility mode. I remember debates
about that when Vista came out. The API
function GetVersionEx can be called to find out
what Windows version your software is running
on. But with Vista it started lying. For
"compatibility". If the software was run in compa
t mode GetVersionEx would return the compat
version! But lying to the software, of course,
doesn't cure anything. It just makes the
software look bad.
I had to write my own function to find the
real version. Then if my software was running
on Vista/7 and I hadn't yet updated it to support
those versions, I'd have it quit with a message.
The other option was to accept Microsoft's new
rules and have my software be untested at best
and malfunctioning at worst.

In other words, the compat mode didn't provide
XP compatibility. It just provided a slight wrapper
to make Vista/7 seem like XP by doing things
like lying with GetVersionEx and transparently
rerouting operations with folders that had moved.

I don't know all the details. I just made sure
none of my software would work until I'd got
around to updating and testing.

Keep in mind that since Vista is v6.0, that Win7 (v6.1) is really just a Vista
Service Pack. (IMO)

--
Garry

Free usenet access at http://www.eternal-september.org
Classic VB Users Regroup!
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion

wrote in message
...

Starting with the introduction of 10, I posted ( repeatedly ) for
anyone to give me one good reason to "upgrade" from 7 to 10. So far
nobody has been able to do that.

I have a few reasons to upgrade from Win7 to Win8.1. They apply to Win10 as
well.
On the other hand I see no reason to upgrade from Win8.1 to Win10.

The reasons to upgrade from Win7 to Win8.1 include:

* On Win8.1 one can use Classic theme with DWM enabled, on Win7 one cannot.

* A few bugs/glitches in the theme were fixed in Win8, such as a black pixel
on the
leftmost tab in tabbed dialogs and garbage on the window corner after
resizing.

* Quick start. Also the fact it keeps AMD Overdrive settings unlike full
reboot.

* Boot menu on the external monitor (I use laptop in the role of desktop,
with external monitor).

* Better hardware support, more universal printer drivers, newer driver
model,
USB 3.0 support out of the box.

* Seems working faster for me.

------------------------

Win10 on the other hand, has tons of disadvantages compared to Win8.1.