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Win7 support:



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 14th 19, 04:33 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive


With Win7 support ending on Jan 14,2020
how will that affect my computer's not
being able download security updates etc.?

Thanks,
Robert
Ads
  #2  
Old June 14th 19, 06:01 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
😉 Good Guy 😉
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,483
Default Win7 support:

On 14/06/2019 16:33, Robert in CA wrote:


With Win7 support ending on Jan 14,2020
how will that affect my computer's not
being able download security updates etc.?


Simple common sense. Your computer won't be protected with any new
attacks and you may not know this but there will be many such attacks
because hackers know that there are many people like you who can't or
won't upgrade or buy a new machine so these people are the best to target.

Your computer will continue to run as before but I guess somebody told
you that you won't be able to switch on the machine because the support
has run out!! . this is not correct. Just continue using the machine
until somebody steals your bank details and wipes it clean before you
realise what has happened. Alternatively, you could wipe the disk clean
and install a new operating system which has been around for the last 50
years but nobody seems to be using it. It is called Linux and 500 super
computers in the world use it so you can be 501st person on the list.
New Windows requires lots of common sense and intelligence and you don't
want to get involved with it. Let the young people use it.

Good luck and happy computing.


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--
With over 950 million devices now running Windows 10, customer
satisfaction is higher than any previous version of windows.

  #3  
Old June 14th 19, 06:15 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
David B.[_15_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Win7 support:

On 14/06/2019 18:01, 😉 Good Guy 😉 wrote:
On 14/06/2019 16:33, Robert in CA wrote:

With Win7 support ending on Jan 14,2020
how will that affect my computer's not
being able download security updates etc.?


Simple common sense.Â* Your computer won't be protected *AGAINST* any new
attacks.


*Agreed*! :-)

BIG SNIP

Please read here, Robert.

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=156053221400

--
David B.
Devon, UK
  #4  
Old June 14th 19, 07:31 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Shadow
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,638
Default Win7 support:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 18:01:37 +0100, ? Good Guy ?
wrote:

On 14/06/2019 16:33, Robert in CA wrote:


With Win7 support ending on Jan 14,2020
how will that affect my computer's not
being able download security updates etc.?


Simple common sense.


IAWP.
1) You will no longer get lockups or crashes due to faulty
updates.
2)They will no longer brick your computer (examples all over
the press)
3) If you turn off updates completely, you will cut some of
the datamining and profiling Win 7 and up does.
If your programs work, just ignore updates. Remember that M$
promised XP would collapse under the weight of all the
vulnerabilities?
That was 5 years ago. Never happened.
Practice safe hex ( good firewall, decent hosts file and
script blocking in your browser, avoid clicking on ANY new executable
until you've quarantined it for a couple of days, then scanned it with
Virustotal or Jotti) and you'll be OK.
HTH
[]'s

PS You posted to a XP group. But you will probably get the
same answer in a Win 7 group, so no harm done.
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
  #5  
Old June 14th 19, 07:45 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Win7 support:

Robert in CA wrote:
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive


With Win7 support ending on Jan 14,2020
how will that affect my computer's not
being able download security updates etc.?

Thanks,
Robert


Let's make a list:

Security Updates no longer made for Windows 7 = No lengthy Windows Updates
You AV fleet offers some coverage.

Fleet of AV scanners you own = Supported for now, support gradually dropping away
after a couple of years. The extent of the "danger"
is a function of how many scrapes you and the
computer have got into, over the years. Only you
know how reckless you've been clicking stuff with
the computer mouse...

New versions of Web Browsers magically won't run on Windows 7 = It's hard to imagine
this happening. It would
take a concerted effort
from MS to do this.

*******

I could switch to Windows 10 for free = Yeah, you could, but:
1) Have to prepare for it.
2) Win10 is more of a pain in the ass
3) Win10 is more nosy. You have to remember to
program all the sliders to OFF.
4) Microsoft rates its maintenance activity as
more important than you being able to use
the computer.
5) The 8500 will comfortably run Win10.
The 780 meets the requirements but
isn't a powerhouse when running Win10.
The 780 would run Win10 like my typing
machine runs Win10 - when Windows Defender
goes crazy, the browsing could be a little
slow.

To make a transition plan, you have to figure out how desirable
Win10 is, and what config to use for 8500 and 780.

8500 780
+------------------+ +------------------+
| Win10 over top | | Win7 (unchanged) |
| of Win7 | | |
+------------------+ +------------------+

8500 780
+------------------+-------------------+ +------------------+
| Win7 (unchanged) | Win10 beside Win7 | | Win7 (unchanged) |
| | (dual boot setup) | | |
+------------------+-------------------+ +------------------+

And then there would be more diagrams, where we had the same sort of
options for the 780.

When you dual boot, the bootup can be slower. When you boot
the "non-default" OS, the machine basically has to restart
twice. It can feel like the process takes two minutes.

"Win10 over top of Win7" is easy.

1) Make backup of OS drive to separate backup drive.
This is your safety backup, in case something happens.

2) https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/soft...load/windows10

Get MediaCreationTool, if your machine has Win7 Professional
you order up Win10 Professional x64. If your machine has
Win7 Home Premium, you order up Win10 Home x64 disc. The
1903 image on offer, has a total of seven OS flavors, of which
both of the flavors you need, will be on the one disc.

3) With Windows 7 running, mount the downloaded ISO9660 file that
MediaCreationTool got for you. 3,967,483,904 bytes.

But this article tells you that Win7 doesn't have a native mounter.
While Win8.1 and Win10 do. You'll need to burn a DVD then, for sure,
and the DVD will also come in handy for "clean installs".

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/wind...windows-vista/

Once the DVD is burned, open the DVD in File Explorer until
you see Setup.exe and double click it. If all goes well,
in an hour or two, you'll see a Windows 10 OS. There should be
no boot menu in this case, because by running Setup.exe, we've
done a "Win10 over Win7" install.

When it asks for an account, the OS is "sneaky", and tries to
rope you into giving up an email address. Use "Offline account"
in the bottom left hand corner.

https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...10-a-msa-1.jpg

*******

The other kind of install, is to install Windows 10 beside
Windows 7, so that both OSes are available from a boot menu.

For one of those, you boot from the DVD using your computer
popup boot menu, then select the "Custom" option and tell the
computer that the blank partition you prepared for it, is
where the OS is supposed to go. This requires using a
Partition Manager application in advance, shrinking C:
(you can do that from Disk Management actually), and
creating a partition for Windows 10. If you use a 30GB
partition, the installer will compress a lot of materials,
which isn't good. If you used an 80GB partition, that's
probably enough that it won't be "cranky".

And we don't need to boot this DVD in UEFI mode, because
your setups are legacy MBR and BIOS setups (UEFI+CSM BIOS
would do, or a traditional legacy BIOS would work). I think
your setup is utterly conventional, so I don't have to
address a bunch of options.

+-----+-----------------------------+
| MBR | Win7 | === shrink C:
+-----+-----------------------------+

+-----+---------------+-------------+
| MBR | Win7 | 80GB Win10 | === create an empty 80GB partition
+-----+---------------+-------------+

Boot Win10 DVD and install. Type license key
into activation dialog.

This web page will answer a lot of your questions
about installing side-by-side by booting the DVD
and doing a "clean install into a partition". If you
were to accept standard options and not use Custom,
it might "blow away" Windows 7 instead. You have to
tell it what you want to do, for it to work out well.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html

Now, I know this post is not in the level of detail you
expect. I think you have the skill level to do it, but
there are bound to be some rough edges where you get
in trouble. So, you'd only modify one machine at
a time, and use the second machine to dial out for
help.

As they say at the mechanics shop "you can pay me now or
you can pay me later, but you'll pay me". Microsoft is
like that mechanic, sitting in the corner snickering
as you try to set this stuff up. It's a lot of nuisance
just so you can have maintenance and continuity.

Oh, and with your fleet of AVs, you'll likely need to
uninstall Avira or Avast before doing some flavors of
installation, as they can interfere with an install.
This is most likely to happen in the "Win10 over Win7"
case. The other stuff, like some "SpywareScanner", is less
likely to blow up the install.

Many install failures will roll back on their own if
there is trouble. But, rollback takes an hour or two
of disk grinding activity, and is "plenty annoying".
I only put up with a rollback once, just to prove it
works. I usually cut them off at the knees, and restore
from backup, because that's a few minutes faster for me.

So that's the situation.

Paul
  #6  
Old June 14th 19, 10:11 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 627
Default Win7 support:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:33:55 -0700 (PDT), Robert in CA
wrote:

I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive


With Win7 support ending on Jan 14,2020
how will that affect my computer's not
being able download security updates etc.?

Thanks,
Robert


The short answer is if Microsoft was so good at providing bug free
software a new install of W/7 would not need 190+ updates to be
current.
The reality is virtually all of them fix problems you are unlikely to
encounter.
I also wonder if they will push this back again. Bear in mind, it was
supposed to end a few months ago. Also bear in mind, when there really
was a problem, MS sent a patch out for XP years after it was supposed
to be dead.
I rate this as a non issue. As Paul said, run a good virus scanner and
practice "safe hex". That is your best defense

BTW it is not like they are not patching holes in 10 every week and
that is usually AFTER a number of people were hacked.

  #8  
Old June 15th 19, 01:43 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:




On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 11:45:48 AM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:
I have a Dell XPS 8500, with Windows 7 Professional, SP1,
with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

(1) TB HD
Intel (R) Core (TM) i7-33-3770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
Ram 12.0 GB
System type : 64-bit operating system

I also have

I have a Dell Optiplex 780 Tower, with Windows 7 Professional,
SP1, with Spywareblaster, Malwarebytes, Avast , Windows Defender
and Windows firewall.

Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
System type : 64-bit operating system

and (external hard drives)

(8500)
WD BLACK SERIES WD2003FZEX 2TB 7200
RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal
Hard Drive

(780)
Seagate Desktop HDD ST2000DM001 2TB 64MB
Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5"
Internal Hard Drive


With Win7 support ending on Jan 14,2020
how will that affect my computer's not
being able download security updates etc.?

Thanks,
Robert


Let's make a list:

Security Updates no longer made for Windows 7 = No lengthy Windows Updates
You AV fleet offers some coverage.

Fleet of AV scanners you own = Supported for now, support gradually dropping away
after a couple of years. The extent of the "danger"
is a function of how many scrapes you and the
computer have got into, over the years. Only you
know how reckless you've been clicking stuff with
the computer mouse...

New versions of Web Browsers magically won't run on Windows 7 = It's hard to imagine
this happening. It would
take a concerted effort
from MS to do this.

*******

I could switch to Windows 10 for free = Yeah, you could, but:
1) Have to prepare for it.
2) Win10 is more of a pain in the ass
3) Win10 is more nosy. You have to remember to
program all the sliders to OFF.
4) Microsoft rates its maintenance activity as
more important than you being able to use
the computer.
5) The 8500 will comfortably run Win10.
The 780 meets the requirements but
isn't a powerhouse when running Win10.
The 780 would run Win10 like my typing
machine runs Win10 - when Windows Defender
goes crazy, the browsing could be a little
slow.

To make a transition plan, you have to figure out how desirable
Win10 is, and what config to use for 8500 and 780.

8500 780
+------------------+ +------------------+
| Win10 over top | | Win7 (unchanged) |
| of Win7 | | |
+------------------+ +------------------+

8500 780
+------------------+-------------------+ +------------------+
| Win7 (unchanged) | Win10 beside Win7 | | Win7 (unchanged) |
| | (dual boot setup) | | |
+------------------+-------------------+ +------------------+

And then there would be more diagrams, where we had the same sort of
options for the 780.

When you dual boot, the bootup can be slower. When you boot
the "non-default" OS, the machine basically has to restart
twice. It can feel like the process takes two minutes.

"Win10 over top of Win7" is easy.

1) Make backup of OS drive to separate backup drive.
This is your safety backup, in case something happens.

2) https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/soft...load/windows10

Get MediaCreationTool, if your machine has Win7 Professional
you order up Win10 Professional x64. If your machine has
Win7 Home Premium, you order up Win10 Home x64 disc. The
1903 image on offer, has a total of seven OS flavors, of which
both of the flavors you need, will be on the one disc.

3) With Windows 7 running, mount the downloaded ISO9660 file that
MediaCreationTool got for you. 3,967,483,904 bytes.

But this article tells you that Win7 doesn't have a native mounter.
While Win8.1 and Win10 do. You'll need to burn a DVD then, for sure,
and the DVD will also come in handy for "clean installs".

https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/wind...windows-vista/

Once the DVD is burned, open the DVD in File Explorer until
you see Setup.exe and double click it. If all goes well,
in an hour or two, you'll see a Windows 10 OS. There should be
no boot menu in this case, because by running Setup.exe, we've
done a "Win10 over Win7" install.

When it asks for an account, the OS is "sneaky", and tries to
rope you into giving up an email address. Use "Offline account"
in the bottom left hand corner.

https://www.tenforums.com/attachment...10-a-msa-1.jpg

*******

The other kind of install, is to install Windows 10 beside
Windows 7, so that both OSes are available from a boot menu.

For one of those, you boot from the DVD using your computer
popup boot menu, then select the "Custom" option and tell the
computer that the blank partition you prepared for it, is
where the OS is supposed to go. This requires using a
Partition Manager application in advance, shrinking C:
(you can do that from Disk Management actually), and
creating a partition for Windows 10. If you use a 30GB
partition, the installer will compress a lot of materials,
which isn't good. If you used an 80GB partition, that's
probably enough that it won't be "cranky".

And we don't need to boot this DVD in UEFI mode, because
your setups are legacy MBR and BIOS setups (UEFI+CSM BIOS
would do, or a traditional legacy BIOS would work). I think
your setup is utterly conventional, so I don't have to
address a bunch of options.

+-----+-----------------------------+
| MBR | Win7 | === shrink C:
+-----+-----------------------------+

+-----+---------------+-------------+
| MBR | Win7 | 80GB Win10 | === create an empty 80GB partition
+-----+---------------+-------------+

Boot Win10 DVD and install. Type license key
into activation dialog.

This web page will answer a lot of your questions
about installing side-by-side by booting the DVD
and doing a "clean install into a partition". If you
were to accept standard options and not use Custom,
it might "blow away" Windows 7 instead. You have to
tell it what you want to do, for it to work out well.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html

Now, I know this post is not in the level of detail you
expect. I think you have the skill level to do it, but
there are bound to be some rough edges where you get
in trouble. So, you'd only modify one machine at
a time, and use the second machine to dial out for
help.

As they say at the mechanics shop "you can pay me now or
you can pay me later, but you'll pay me". Microsoft is
like that mechanic, sitting in the corner snickering
as you try to set this stuff up. It's a lot of nuisance
just so you can have maintenance and continuity.

Oh, and with your fleet of AVs, you'll likely need to
uninstall Avira or Avast before doing some flavors of
installation, as they can interfere with an install.
This is most likely to happen in the "Win10 over Win7"
case. The other stuff, like some "SpywareScanner", is less
likely to blow up the install.

Many install failures will roll back on their own if
there is trouble. But, rollback takes an hour or two
of disk grinding activity, and is "plenty annoying".
I only put up with a rollback once, just to prove it
works. I usually cut them off at the knees, and restore
from backup, because that's a few minutes faster for me.

So that's the situation.

Paul



It seems that Win 10 over Win 7 is the easiest to install and use
but won't I have to change how I do backups or will it stay the
same? I will have to re-do my backup 2TB replacement HD's which
are already formatted with Win7. So I would have to re-format them
correct?

I just leery about using Win 10, I like Win 7 Pro allot and know
nothing about Win 10 or how to use it but I guess I don't have any
choice. That was the reason for all the backups but I forgot about
support ending. Also will the download give me Win 10 professional?

Thanks,
Robert
  #9  
Old June 15th 19, 03:45 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default Win7 support:

In message ,
Robert in CA writes:
[]
It seems that Win 10 over Win 7 is the easiest to install and use
but won't I have to change how I do backups or will it stay the
same? I will have to re-do my backup 2TB replacement HD's which
are already formatted with Win7. So I would have to re-format them
correct?


I'm a bit dubious about how you're doing your backups, if you're asking
that question. Assuming by "backup" you mean "something that will
restore my system to how it is when I make the backup, if disaster
strikes such as hard disc failure or serious malware like ransomware",
then you need to either be making clones, or making disc images and have
a bootable CD (or USB stick if you must).

So yes, if your backups are cloned discs (i. e. you're planning to just
replace the current disc with the clone if something goes wrong), you
will indeed have to re-clone to them once you have W10 working. If you
want to be able to restore your W10 system after disaster that is.

I just leery about using Win 10, I like Win 7 Pro allot and know
nothing about Win 10 or how to use it but I guess I don't have any


You _do_ have a choice: support ending doesn't mean everything stops
working: many here (I've just noticed where you've posted this) have
been using XP over a decade after support ended. 7 will be in a similar
situation.

choice. That was the reason for all the backups but I forgot about
support ending. Also will the download give me Win 10 professional?


AIUI, it'll give you the same version as your 7 - Home gets you Home,
Pro gets you Pro. Beyond that I'm not sure - I don't think there are the
same number of variants of 10 as there were of 7.

Thanks,
Robert


YW, HTH.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I don't like activity holidays. I like /inactivity/ holidays.
- Miriam Margolyes, RT 2017/4/15-21
  #10  
Old June 15th 19, 03:52 AM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Win7 support:

Robert in CA wrote:


It seems that Win 10 over Win 7 is the easiest to install and use
but won't I have to change how I do backups or will it stay the
same? I will have to re-do my backup 2TB replacement HD's which
are already formatted with Win7. So I would have to re-format them
correct?

I just leery about using Win 10, I like Win 7 Pro allot and know
nothing about Win 10 or how to use it but I guess I don't have any
choice. That was the reason for all the backups but I forgot about
support ending. Also will the download give me Win 10 professional?

Thanks,
Robert


The "Win10 over Win7" preserves your programs and user files.

The drive letters might change a bit, so it's possible the info in
the setup file for Macrium will need to be redone.

And you can plug in your clone drives and do "Win10 over Win7"
on those to bring them up to date.

When you do your OS install, only the one hard drive is
connected at a time. That's to avoid "confusion" for the
installer.

And whether you make everything in the room "Win10" is up to
you. You could leave a clone drive with Win7 on it.

The important part, is to generate a "Digital Entitlement"
using your Win7 key for the "Free Upgrade". Once you generate
the key for the machine (the very first install does this),
then any subsequent installs of Windows 10 on the same machine,
use the same key.

Drive #1 Win10 key abcde fghij...

(Clone) Drive #2 Win10 key abcde fghij...

You've got this situation already, in that you have
multiple drives that belong to the 8500, all with
Windows 7 that use the same key.

The multiple disks for the 780, all use the key that
the 780 was assigned.

And when doing Win10 over Win7, the same "key goes with machine"
will take place.

and the only tiny detail, is remembering to disable Avira or AVG,
before doing the Setup.exe off the DVD you'll be making.

And the disc you download, has to match the version of Windows 7
that is installed now. Home == Home, Professional == Professional.
The disc you download will have seven different flavors of Win10
on it, include Home and Pro. So that one disc has those two covered.
The one disc has all the x64 bit versions on it. The second
disk they offer is x86 for people who want a 32 bit OS instead.

You can check the System Control Panel on your Win7 machines
and check the details. Or use Start : Run and execute "winver"
to get some details and double check.

And if there is trouble, you can boot the Installer DVD and
run Command Prompt from it, to do various kinds of repairs.
Like, you could boot that DVD, and run "chkdsk" from Command Prompt.

But one question would be "how compatible is Windows 10". Well,
Win10 makes a royal mess of the NTFS on the C: drive,
and causes all sorts of nightmares for routine maintenance.
It damages $MFTMIRR on some partitions, and the
Win7 chkdsk can fix that, while the Win10 chkdsk won't
fix it. It takes me a lot longer to do various kinds
of setups, because of all the rules I have to remember
because "Win10 has bad table manners".

So while on the one hand, I'm "excited" about getting
something free, the setup I used to have was quite stable
and not a pain in the ass. And that's something the
old setup had going for it.

As it is, when I'm finished with this post, now I have to
go repair my Win10. Earlier today, I tried to do a Macrium backup
and it threw a new error code (it wasn't an Error 9 either). Then,
I tried to run CHKDSK on C: just in case there really was a problem
with it, but the CHKDSK button you click to access Event Viewer,
the Event Viewer plugin wouldn't load, and it still would not
load after a reboot. So now I have to come up with a plan as
to how to repair it. I will likely be doing a 1903
"install over top", just like what we've been
discussing. Grrr. More hours wasted.

Paul
  #11  
Old June 15th 19, 04:41 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:

On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 7:52:26 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:


It seems that Win 10 over Win 7 is the easiest to install and use
but won't I have to change how I do backups or will it stay the
same? I will have to re-do my backup 2TB replacement HD's which
are already formatted with Win7. So I would have to re-format them
correct?

I just leery about using Win 10, I like Win 7 Pro allot and know
nothing about Win 10 or how to use it but I guess I don't have any
choice. That was the reason for all the backups but I forgot about
support ending. Also will the download give me Win 10 professional?

Thanks,
Robert


The "Win10 over Win7" preserves your programs and user files.

The drive letters might change a bit, so it's possible the info in
the setup file for Macrium will need to be redone.

And you can plug in your clone drives and do "Win10 over Win7"
on those to bring them up to date.

When you do your OS install, only the one hard drive is
connected at a time. That's to avoid "confusion" for the
installer.

And whether you make everything in the room "Win10" is up to
you. You could leave a clone drive with Win7 on it.

The important part, is to generate a "Digital Entitlement"
using your Win7 key for the "Free Upgrade". Once you generate
the key for the machine (the very first install does this),
then any subsequent installs of Windows 10 on the same machine,
use the same key.

Drive #1 Win10 key abcde fghij...

(Clone) Drive #2 Win10 key abcde fghij...

You've got this situation already, in that you have
multiple drives that belong to the 8500, all with
Windows 7 that use the same key.

The multiple disks for the 780, all use the key that
the 780 was assigned.

And when doing Win10 over Win7, the same "key goes with machine"
will take place.

and the only tiny detail, is remembering to disable Avira or AVG,
before doing the Setup.exe off the DVD you'll be making.

And the disc you download, has to match the version of Windows 7
that is installed now. Home == Home, Professional == Professional.
The disc you download will have seven different flavors of Win10
on it, include Home and Pro. So that one disc has those two covered.
The one disc has all the x64 bit versions on it. The second
disk they offer is x86 for people who want a 32 bit OS instead.

You can check the System Control Panel on your Win7 machines
and check the details. Or use Start : Run and execute "winver"
to get some details and double check.

And if there is trouble, you can boot the Installer DVD and
run Command Prompt from it, to do various kinds of repairs.
Like, you could boot that DVD, and run "chkdsk" from Command Prompt.

But one question would be "how compatible is Windows 10". Well,
Win10 makes a royal mess of the NTFS on the C: drive,
and causes all sorts of nightmares for routine maintenance.
It damages $MFTMIRR on some partitions, and the
Win7 chkdsk can fix that, while the Win10 chkdsk won't
fix it. It takes me a lot longer to do various kinds
of setups, because of all the rules I have to remember
because "Win10 has bad table manners".

So while on the one hand, I'm "excited" about getting
something free, the setup I used to have was quite stable
and not a pain in the ass. And that's something the
old setup had going for it.

As it is, when I'm finished with this post, now I have to
go repair my Win10. Earlier today, I tried to do a Macrium backup
and it threw a new error code (it wasn't an Error 9 either). Then,
I tried to run CHKDSK on C: just in case there really was a problem
with it, but the CHKDSK button you click to access Event Viewer,
the Event Viewer plugin wouldn't load, and it still would not
load after a reboot. So now I have to come up with a plan as
to how to repair it. I will likely be doing a 1903
"install over top", just like what we've been
discussing. Grrr. More hours wasted.

Paul



So if I put Win 10 over Win 7 I will be
actually operating Win 10 and won't even
see Win 7 anymore correct? I also have to
create a disc with Win 8 to get Win 10.
You also you said " Win10 is more nosy.
You have to remember to program all the sliders
to OFF". What are sliders?

This is getting a little confusing and more
involved.

Maybe I would prefer side to side so I can choose
which OS. If I add Win 10 I still want to be able
to use Win 7

We discussed this before and I really don't
want to leave Win 7 Pro and I really don't like
Win 10 and I get hit with alerts from regular pages
that open. So its not totally about where I click
and also how vulnerable will my banking and other
information be if I don't change?.

Hmmmmmmm the last part of your message has me very
concerned in that Win 10 is not user friendly and has
more problems than I would loose with Win 7 not updating.


Thoughts?

Robert
  #12  
Old June 15th 19, 08:17 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Paul[_32_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,873
Default Win7 support:

Robert in CA wrote:

So if I put Win 10 over Win 7 I will be
actually operating Win 10 and won't even
see Win 7 anymore correct?


That's correct. Windows 7 is thrown into C:\Windows.old
and after ten days, the file set in there is deleted
automatically by Windows 10. For that ten day period, there
is a "revert" button you can use, to uninstall Windows 10
and move Windows.old to Windows (logically speaking).

By and large, ignoring those details, when you do
"Win10 over Win7", then Windows 7 is gone.

It's the "Windows 10 beside Windows 7" option
that makes both OSes available, but takes up
extra space, because there are two separate
partitions that function as a C: when they're in use.

I also have to
create a disc with Win 8 to get Win 10.
You also you said " Win10 is more nosy.
You have to remember to program all the sliders
to OFF". What are sliders?


No. These are the options with a Win10 disc in hand.

Win7SP1 Home Premium x64 == Win10 Home x64
Win7SP1 professional x64 == Win10 Pro x64
Win8.1 Home x64 == Win10 Home x64
Win8.1 Pro x64 == Win10 Pro x64

It is unnecessary to go W7 == W8 == W10 or the like.

Windows 10 is the first Windows OS with a "more flexible
installer that can jump a version".

You can also do things like

Win10 Pro 1803 x64 == Win10 Pro 1803 x64 ("Repair Install")
Win10 Pro 1803 x64 == Win10 Pro 1903 x64 ("Upgrade Install")

I used the Upgrade Install (setup.exe) today, to
fix the broken Windows 10 where the Event Viewer
was broken. Since the OS would be doing the Upgrade
to 1903 eventually anyway, by using the DVD I have,
I just accelerated the process a bit.


This is getting a little confusing and more
involved.

Maybe I would prefer side to side so I can choose
which OS. If I add Win 10 I still want to be able
to use Win 7

We discussed this before and I really don't
want to leave Win 7 Pro and I really don't like
Win 10 and I get hit with alerts from regular pages
that open. So its not totally about where I click
and also how vulnerable will my banking and other
information be if I don't change?.

Hmmmmmmm the last part of your message has me very
concerned in that Win 10 is not user friendly and has
more problems than I would loose with Win 7 not updating.


Thoughts?

Robert


With Windows 10, it's a "matter of how much you like
being inconvenienced". That's the most general
description I can offer.

*******

OK, so what is your first step today ?

There is room to contemplate your navel, as you see fit,
but the most important step is to "acquire the
Digital Entitlement". That is the operation of
creating a Win10 license key on the Microsoft activation
server, for future usage of Windows 10.

In other words, this is *not* your final configuration,
what we do today is just so you get a license for the
software for later.

Install Win10 over Win7 == generate request for Win10 license key
delete Win10, go back to Win7 == The license key is now "reserved"
for the day that you decide to install
because you really need Windows 10.

Generating a Win10 license key does not block your usage of Windows 7.

If you have a spare drive (one without content at the moment),
the steps would be:

1) Clone your current 780 drive to the spare. Use Macrium.
2) Unplug the original drive, boot the 780 with just the spare.
We can sacrifice the spare, because it's a spare and nothing
important is on ther.
3) Insert your Windows 10 DVD, run setup.exe from the DVD
while the 780 is running Windows 7 SP1 Pro x64.
4) When the Windows 10 OS shows its face, verify it is
activated.

https://i.postimg.cc/JnHDtXYp/checki...activation.gif

1) Clone your current 8500 drive to the spare.
This will erase the 780 content, and put an 8500 Win7 on it instead.
2) Unplug the original drive, boot the 8500 with the spare.
3) Insert your Windows 10 DVD, run setup.exe from the DVD
while the 8500 is running Windows 7 SP1 Pro x64.
4) When the Windows 10 OS shows its face, verify it is
activated.

https://i.postimg.cc/JnHDtXYp/checki...activation.gif

It will take at least an hour for step 3 and 4. Bare minimum.
Your C: partitions are quite large, and even 50GB of space
is more than enough for the operation to complete.

You will not be keeping the contents on the Spare drive.
There is also nothing to write down. The Spare drive can
be erased and reused. The key is on the Microsoft activation
server, and is "indexed" by the motherboard serial number
of your computer. That's how Microsoft is keeping track
of which computer this is. Microsoft uses serial numbers
off various pieces of hardware. The license key on the
machine ("3V66T") is a fake and that value cannot be
reused for any purpose.

You will be plugging the original drives back into the
PCs they belong to.

The purpose of that exercise, is to secure your Win10
license key today, so you have one. You must complete
this operation, before they stop honoring the "Free Upgrade"
offer. After the "Free Upgrade" stops being offered, the
install disc will still work.

When you actually want to use Windows 10, you will
be completing some sort of sequence "similar" to the
above. The purpose of generating the Digital Entitlement
now, is so each machine has one for the future.

Once the Digital Entitlement is available on the server,
the following will work.

1) Take your computer, put a single blank drive in it.
2) Boot the Win10 installer DVD. Do a "clean install".
3) When Windows 10 appears on the screen, check for
activation, as in the picture above. It should say
activated. When it asks for a key, you'd say "I don't
have a key", but the install will proceed without a key,
and because you have a Digital Entitlement, it will
activate without you typing in any key info. And this
is why we don't need to write anything down. It's
all automated. It's automated, because we have the
Digital Entitlement.

At the time you do your "real" Win10 install, you
can then choose to do "Win10 over Win7" or
"Win10 beside Win7". Where the "Win10 beside Win7"
is dual boot, uses two C: drives, and you get to
choose which OS version runs. As long as Win10 is
installed after Win7 is installed, the sequence is
one of the "easy" sequences. There are some
install sequences here, that are so hard, I still
haven't fixed the broken one... (That's UEFI booting,
mixing Windows and Linux and booting two Windows
OSes. Still broken.) For that one, I'm having a hard
time figuring out what to do next.

Paul
  #13  
Old June 15th 19, 09:00 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
No_Name
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 627
Default Win7 support:

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 15:17:19 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Robert in CA wrote:

So if I put Win 10 over Win 7 I will be
actually operating Win 10 and won't even
see Win 7 anymore correct?


That's correct. Windows 7 is thrown into C:\Windows.old
and after ten days, the file set in there is deleted
automatically by Windows 10. For that ten day period, there
is a "revert" button you can use, to uninstall Windows 10
and move Windows.old to Windows (logically speaking).

By and large, ignoring those details, when you do
"Win10 over Win7", then Windows 7 is gone.

It's the "Windows 10 beside Windows 7" option
that makes both OSes available, but takes up
extra space, because there are two separate
partitions that function as a C: when they're in use.

Perhaps a wise man would copy that onto some portable media and stuff
it away. (assuming you could restore it and "revert")

I am still a huge fan of using another drive to install a new OS,
putting my original in a safe place. (or making a clone if it is an
upgrade situation). Then you are simply swapping a cable to "revert".
I have changed my old XT drive in this machine to "C:" a couple times
now.
  #14  
Old June 15th 19, 09:58 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
J. P. Gilliver (John)[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,679
Default Win7 support:

In message , Paul
writes:
Robert in CA wrote:

So if I put Win 10 over Win 7 I will be actually operating Win 10
and won't even
see Win 7 anymore correct?


That's correct. Windows 7 is thrown into C:\Windows.old
and after ten days, the file set in there is deleted
automatically by Windows 10. For that ten day period, there
is a "revert" button you can use, to uninstall Windows 10
and move Windows.old to Windows (logically speaking).

By and large, ignoring those details, when you do
"Win10 over Win7", then Windows 7 is gone.

It's the "Windows 10 beside Windows 7" option
that makes both OSes available, but takes up
extra space, because there are two separate
partitions that function as a C: when they're in use.

I also have to create a disc with Win 8 to get Win 10.
You also you said " Win10 is more nosy. You have to remember to
program all the sliders to OFF". What are sliders?


The on-screen setting controls that look like a slider volume control or
waveband switch. For example, the one (I forget how you get to it) that
sets how much of your system is accessible to the outside (or how much
information your system sends to the outside).

No. These are the options with a Win10 disc in hand.

Win7SP1 Home Premium x64 == Win10 Home x64
Win7SP1 professional x64 == Win10 Pro x64
Win8.1 Home x64 == Win10 Home x64
Win8.1 Pro x64 == Win10 Pro x64

It is unnecessary to go W7 == W8 == W10 or the like.


Agreed. The one time I've done it, went straight from 7 to 10. (And
produced a system so unusable that I was surprised the compatibility
check hadn't rejected the hardware before starting, but that's by the
by.)

Windows 10 is the first Windows OS with a "more flexible
installer that can jump a version".

You can also do things like

Win10 Pro 1803 x64 == Win10 Pro 1803 x64 ("Repair Install")
Win10 Pro 1803 x64 == Win10 Pro 1903 x64 ("Upgrade Install")

[]
This is getting a little confusing and more
involved. Maybe I would prefer side to side so I can choose which
OS. If I add Win 10 I still want to be able
to use Win 7
We discussed this before and I really don't want to leave Win 7 Pro
and I really don't like Win 10 and I get hit with alerts from regular
pages that open. So its not totally about where I click and also how
vulnerable will my banking and other
information be if I don't change?. Hmmmmmmm the last part of your
message has me very
concerned in that Win 10 is not user friendly and has more problems


From what I've seen, it's certainly very _different_. (To me, it is
indeed unfriendly, but its fans would say it isn't, just different.)

than I would loose with Win 7 not updating.

[lose not loose (-:]
Thoughts?
Robert


With Windows 10, it's a "matter of how much you like
being inconvenienced". That's the most general
description I can offer.

I'd agree (-:.
*******

OK, so what is your first step today ?

There is room to contemplate your navel, as you see fit,
but the most important step is to "acquire the
Digital Entitlement". That is the operation of
creating a Win10 license key on the Microsoft activation
server, for future usage of Windows 10.

In other words, this is *not* your final configuration,
what we do today is just so you get a license for the
software for later.


And this licence isn't local - it's on Microsoft's servers, but is
specific to your machine. (Paul does say that, but further down.)

Install Win10 over Win7 == generate request for Win10 license key
delete Win10, go back to Win7 == The license key is now "reserved"
for the day that you decide to install
because you really need Windows 10.

Generating a Win10 license key does not block your usage of Windows 7.

If you have a spare drive (one without content at the moment),


By which Paul means a _third_ drive, beyond the two you've already used
to make clones of your 780 and 8500. If you don't, there's a step 5 in
the below sequences.

the steps would be:

1) Clone your current 780 drive to the spare. Use Macrium.
2) Unplug the original drive, boot the 780 with just the spare.
We can sacrifice the spare, because it's a spare and nothing
important is on ther.
3) Insert your Windows 10 DVD, run setup.exe from the DVD
while the 780 is running Windows 7 SP1 Pro x64.


(I _think_ you could also do the install direct from having booted from
the DVD, rather than from a running 7, as long as the 7 installation on
the HD is there to be checked. But check with someone other than me!)

4) When the Windows 10 OS shows its face, verify it is
activated.

https://i.postimg.cc/JnHDtXYp/checki...activation.gif

1) Clone your current 8500 drive to the spare.
This will erase the 780 content, and put an 8500 Win7 on it instead.
2) Unplug the original drive, boot the 8500 with the spare.
3) Insert your Windows 10 DVD, run setup.exe from the DVD
while the 8500 is running Windows 7 SP1 Pro x64.
4) When the Windows 10 OS shows its face, verify it is
activated.

https://i.postimg.cc/JnHDtXYp/checki...activation.gif

It will take at least an hour for step 3 and 4. Bare minimum.
Your C: partitions are quite large, and even 50GB of space
is more than enough for the operation to complete.

You will not be keeping the contents on the Spare drive.
There is also nothing to write down. The Spare drive can
be erased and reused. The key is on the Microsoft activation
server, and is "indexed" by the motherboard serial number
of your computer. That's how Microsoft is keeping track
of which computer this is. Microsoft uses serial numbers
off various pieces of hardware. The license key on the
machine ("3V66T") is a fake and that value cannot be
reused for any purpose.

You will be plugging the original drives back into the
PCs they belong to.


That's the step 5s above if you _don't_ have a spare drive beyond the
two clones.

The purpose of that exercise, is to secure your Win10
license key today, so you have one. You must complete


(Keys plural in fact - one for the 780 and one for the 8500. [I'm
assuming those are computer model numbers.])

this operation, before they stop honoring the "Free Upgrade"
offer. After the "Free Upgrade" stops being offered, the
install disc will still work.

When you actually want to use Windows 10, you will
be completing some sort of sequence "similar" to the
above. The purpose of generating the Digital Entitlement
now, is so each machine has one for the future.

Once the Digital Entitlement is available on the server,
the following will work.

1) Take your computer, put a single blank drive in it.
2) Boot the Win10 installer DVD. Do a "clean install".
3) When Windows 10 appears on the screen, check for
activation, as in the picture above. It should say
activated. When it asks for a key, you'd say "I don't
have a key", but the install will proceed without a key,
and because you have a Digital Entitlement, it will
activate without you typing in any key info. And this
is why we don't need to write anything down. It's
all automated. It's automated, because we have the
Digital Entitlement.

At the time you do your "real" Win10 install, you
can then choose to do "Win10 over Win7" or
"Win10 beside Win7". Where the "Win10 beside Win7"
is dual boot, uses two C: drives, and you get to
choose which OS version runs. As long as Win10 is
installed after Win7 is installed, the sequence is
one of the "easy" sequences. There are some

[]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"You realise, Fraser, that what happened between us can never repeat itself.
Unless, of course, the exact same circumstances were to repeat themselves." "By
exact same circumstances, sir, you mean: we would have to be aboard a train
loaded with unconscious Mounties, that had been taken over by terrorists, and
were heading for a nuclear catastrophe?" "Exactly." "Understood."
  #15  
Old June 15th 19, 10:31 PM posted to microsoft.public.windowsxp.general
Robert in CA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 785
Default Win7 support:

On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 12:17:23 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

So if I put Win 10 over Win 7 I will be
actually operating Win 10 and won't even
see Win 7 anymore correct?


That's correct. Windows 7 is thrown into C:\Windows.old
and after ten days, the file set in there is deleted
automatically by Windows 10. For that ten day period, there
is a "revert" button you can use, to uninstall Windows 10
and move Windows.old to Windows (logically speaking).

By and large, ignoring those details, when you do
"Win10 over Win7", then Windows 7 is gone.

It's the "Windows 10 beside Windows 7" option
that makes both OSes available, but takes up
extra space, because there are two separate
partitions that function as a C: when they're in use.

I also have to
create a disc with Win 8 to get Win 10.
You also you said " Win10 is more nosy.
You have to remember to program all the sliders
to OFF". What are sliders?


No. These are the options with a Win10 disc in hand.

Win7SP1 Home Premium x64 == Win10 Home x64
Win7SP1 professional x64 == Win10 Pro x64
Win8.1 Home x64 == Win10 Home x64
Win8.1 Pro x64 == Win10 Pro x64

It is unnecessary to go W7 == W8 == W10 or the like.

Windows 10 is the first Windows OS with a "more flexible
installer that can jump a version".

You can also do things like

Win10 Pro 1803 x64 == Win10 Pro 1803 x64 ("Repair Install")
Win10 Pro 1803 x64 == Win10 Pro 1903 x64 ("Upgrade Install")

I used the Upgrade Install (setup.exe) today, to
fix the broken Windows 10 where the Event Viewer
was broken. Since the OS would be doing the Upgrade
to 1903 eventually anyway, by using the DVD I have,
I just accelerated the process a bit.


This is getting a little confusing and more
involved.

Maybe I would prefer side to side so I can choose
which OS. If I add Win 10 I still want to be able
to use Win 7

We discussed this before and I really don't
want to leave Win 7 Pro and I really don't like
Win 10 and I get hit with alerts from regular pages
that open. So its not totally about where I click
and also how vulnerable will my banking and other
information be if I don't change?.

Hmmmmmmm the last part of your message has me very
concerned in that Win 10 is not user friendly and has
more problems than I would loose with Win 7 not updating.


Thoughts?

Robert


With Windows 10, it's a "matter of how much you like
being inconvenienced". That's the most general
description I can offer.

*******

OK, so what is your first step today ?

There is room to contemplate your navel, as you see fit,
but the most important step is to "acquire the
Digital Entitlement". That is the operation of
creating a Win10 license key on the Microsoft activation
server, for future usage of Windows 10.

In other words, this is *not* your final configuration,
what we do today is just so you get a license for the
software for later.

Install Win10 over Win7 == generate request for Win10 license key
delete Win10, go back to Win7 == The license key is now "reserved"
for the day that you decide to install
because you really need Windows 10.

Generating a Win10 license key does not block your usage of Windows 7.

If you have a spare drive (one without content at the moment),
the steps would be:

1) Clone your current 780 drive to the spare. Use Macrium.
2) Unplug the original drive, boot the 780 with just the spare.
We can sacrifice the spare, because it's a spare and nothing
important is on ther.
3) Insert your Windows 10 DVD, run setup.exe from the DVD
while the 780 is running Windows 7 SP1 Pro x64.
4) When the Windows 10 OS shows its face, verify it is
activated.

https://i.postimg.cc/JnHDtXYp/checki...activation.gif

1) Clone your current 8500 drive to the spare.
This will erase the 780 content, and put an 8500 Win7 on it instead.
2) Unplug the original drive, boot the 8500 with the spare.
3) Insert your Windows 10 DVD, run setup.exe from the DVD
while the 8500 is running Windows 7 SP1 Pro x64.
4) When the Windows 10 OS shows its face, verify it is
activated.

https://i.postimg.cc/JnHDtXYp/checki...activation.gif

It will take at least an hour for step 3 and 4. Bare minimum.
Your C: partitions are quite large, and even 50GB of space
is more than enough for the operation to complete.

You will not be keeping the contents on the Spare drive.
There is also nothing to write down. The Spare drive can
be erased and reused. The key is on the Microsoft activation
server, and is "indexed" by the motherboard serial number
of your computer. That's how Microsoft is keeping track
of which computer this is. Microsoft uses serial numbers
off various pieces of hardware. The license key on the
machine ("3V66T") is a fake and that value cannot be
reused for any purpose.

You will be plugging the original drives back into the
PCs they belong to.

The purpose of that exercise, is to secure your Win10
license key today, so you have one. You must complete
this operation, before they stop honoring the "Free Upgrade"
offer. After the "Free Upgrade" stops being offered, the
install disc will still work.

When you actually want to use Windows 10, you will
be completing some sort of sequence "similar" to the
above. The purpose of generating the Digital Entitlement
now, is so each machine has one for the future.

Once the Digital Entitlement is available on the server,
the following will work.

1) Take your computer, put a single blank drive in it.
2) Boot the Win10 installer DVD. Do a "clean install".
3) When Windows 10 appears on the screen, check for
activation, as in the picture above. It should say
activated. When it asks for a key, you'd say "I don't
have a key", but the install will proceed without a key,
and because you have a Digital Entitlement, it will
activate without you typing in any key info. And this
is why we don't need to write anything down. It's
all automated. It's automated, because we have the
Digital Entitlement.

At the time you do your "real" Win10 install, you
can then choose to do "Win10 over Win7" or
"Win10 beside Win7". Where the "Win10 beside Win7"
is dual boot, uses two C: drives, and you get to
choose which OS version runs. As long as Win10 is
installed after Win7 is installed, the sequence is
one of the "easy" sequences. There are some
install sequences here, that are so hard, I still
haven't fixed the broken one... (That's UEFI booting,
mixing Windows and Linux and booting two Windows
OSes. Still broken.) For that one, I'm having a hard
time figuring out what to do next.

Paul




On Saturday, June 15, 2019 at 12:17:23 PM UTC-7, Paul wrote:
Robert in CA wrote:

So if I put Win 10 over Win 7 I will be
actually operating Win 10 and won't even
see Win 7 anymore correct?


That's correct. Windows 7 is thrown into C:\Windows.old
and after ten days, the file set in there is deleted
automatically by Windows 10. For that ten day period, there
is a "revert" button you can use, to uninstall Windows 10
and move Windows.old to Windows (logically speaking).

By and large, ignoring those details, when you do
"Win10 over Win7", then Windows 7 is gone.

It's the "Windows 10 beside Windows 7" option
that makes both OSes available, but takes up
extra space, because there are two separate
partitions that function as a C: when they're in use.

I also have to
create a disc with Win 8 to get Win 10.
You also you said " Win10 is more nosy.
You have to remember to program all the sliders
to OFF". What are sliders?


No. These are the options with a Win10 disc in hand.

Win7SP1 Home Premium x64 == Win10 Home x64
Win7SP1 professional x64 == Win10 Pro x64
Win8.1 Home x64 == Win10 Home x64
Win8.1 Pro x64 == Win10 Pro x64

It is unnecessary to go W7 == W8 == W10 or the like.

Windows 10 is the first Windows OS with a "more flexible
installer that can jump a version".

You can also do things like

Win10 Pro 1803 x64 == Win10 Pro 1803 x64 ("Repair Install")
Win10 Pro 1803 x64 == Win10 Pro 1903 x64 ("Upgrade Install")

I used the Upgrade Install (setup.exe) today, to
fix the broken Windows 10 where the Event Viewer
was broken. Since the OS would be doing the Upgrade
to 1903 eventually anyway, by using the DVD I have,
I just accelerated the process a bit.


This is getting a little confusing and more
involved.

Maybe I would prefer side to side so I can choose
which OS. If I add Win 10 I still want to be able
to use Win 7

We discussed this before and I really don't
want to leave Win 7 Pro and I really don't like
Win 10 and I get hit with alerts from regular pages
that open. So its not totally about where I click
and also how vulnerable will my banking and other
information be if I don't change?.

Hmmmmmmm the last part of your message has me very
concerned in that Win 10 is not user friendly and has
more problems than I would loose with Win 7 not updating.


Thoughts?

Robert


With Windows 10, it's a "matter of how much you like
being inconvenienced". That's the most general
description I can offer.

*******

OK, so what is your first step today ?

There is room to contemplate your navel, as you see fit,
but the most important step is to "acquire the
Digital Entitlement". That is the operation of
creating a Win10 license key on the Microsoft activation
server, for future usage of Windows 10.

In other words, this is *not* your final configuration,
what we do today is just so you get a license for the
software for later.

Install Win10 over Win7 == generate request for Win10 license key
delete Win10, go back to Win7 == The license key is now "reserved"
for the day that you decide to install
because you really need Windows 10.

Generating a Win10 license key does not block your usage of Windows 7.

If you have a spare drive (one without content at the moment),
the steps would be:

1) Clone your current 780 drive to the spare. Use Macrium.
2) Unplug the original drive, boot the 780 with just the spare.
We can sacrifice the spare, because it's a spare and nothing
important is on ther.
3) Insert your Windows 10 DVD, run setup.exe from the DVD
while the 780 is running Windows 7 SP1 Pro x64.
4) When the Windows 10 OS shows its face, verify it is
activated.

https://i.postimg.cc/JnHDtXYp/checki...activation.gif

1) Clone your current 8500 drive to the spare.
This will erase the 780 content, and put an 8500 Win7 on it instead.
2) Unplug the original drive, boot the 8500 with the spare.
3) Insert your Windows 10 DVD, run setup.exe from the DVD
while the 8500 is running Windows 7 SP1 Pro x64.
4) When the Windows 10 OS shows its face, verify it is
activated.

https://i.postimg.cc/JnHDtXYp/checki...activation.gif

It will take at least an hour for step 3 and 4. Bare minimum.
Your C: partitions are quite large, and even 50GB of space
is more than enough for the operation to complete.

You will not be keeping the contents on the Spare drive.
There is also nothing to write down. The Spare drive can
be erased and reused. The key is on the Microsoft activation
server, and is "indexed" by the motherboard serial number
of your computer. That's how Microsoft is keeping track
of which computer this is. Microsoft uses serial numbers
off various pieces of hardware. The license key on the
machine ("3V66T") is a fake and that value cannot be
reused for any purpose.

You will be plugging the original drives back into the
PCs they belong to.

The purpose of that exercise, is to secure your Win10
license key today, so you have one. You must complete
this operation, before they stop honoring the "Free Upgrade"
offer. After the "Free Upgrade" stops being offered, the
install disc will still work.

When you actually want to use Windows 10, you will
be completing some sort of sequence "similar" to the
above. The purpose of generating the Digital Entitlement
now, is so each machine has one for the future.

Once the Digital Entitlement is available on the server,
the following will work.

1) Take your computer, put a single blank drive in it.
2) Boot the Win10 installer DVD. Do a "clean install".
3) When Windows 10 appears on the screen, check for
activation, as in the picture above. It should say
activated. When it asks for a key, you'd say "I don't
have a key", but the install will proceed without a key,
and because you have a Digital Entitlement, it will
activate without you typing in any key info. And this
is why we don't need to write anything down. It's
all automated. It's automated, because we have the
Digital Entitlement.

At the time you do your "real" Win10 install, you
can then choose to do "Win10 over Win7" or
"Win10 beside Win7". Where the "Win10 beside Win7"
is dual boot, uses two C: drives, and you get to
choose which OS version runs. As long as Win10 is
installed after Win7 is installed, the sequence is
one of the "easy" sequences. There are some
install sequences here, that are so hard, I still
haven't fixed the broken one... (That's UEFI booting,
mixing Windows and Linux and booting two Windows
OSes. Still broken.) For that one, I'm having a hard
time figuring out what to do next.

Paul


I think I understand,... were actually going after the
registration key for Windows 10 without actually installing
Win 10. Is that correct? Then at a later date I can install
Win 10 side by side with Win 7 so I can continue to use Win 7
but can also use Win 10 if I choose. Do I have that right?

I do have a spare drive so that's not a problem. I will have to
re-read your instructions on how to do this. True, I have done
repairs before but only with your guidance and help. I need to
take this slowly so I understand what I'm doing and not mess
anything up.

Robert
 




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